How long do you Wait

jeannigirl · November 2009

Yes its me again. Bottom line is FI doesn't want to get married without his daughter. We have been together 6 years now and here I am hanging waiting for something that just doesn't seem like its going to happen. I feel frustrated and at times feel like he may be using that. He says that he loves me and wants to get married just not without his daugher. He has called me selfish a couple of times because I want to get married and I am talking and looking at wedding things. That all he can focus in is trying to get his daughter. I am not trying to be selfish do you think that is being selfish. I want his daughter to be included. I have been waiting a long time how much longer do I have to wait? I don't just want to be this girlfriend I hate that feeling because alot of his friends and family don't even include me in meaning they treat me like just a girlfriend nothing serious and it really bothers me.

handfast4me · November 2009

I think that's a hard question to answer from the outside. I don't know your FI, and so it's hard for me to give a concrete answer: You should wait X months, and X weeks. (And, as we learned before, my crystal ball is not in working order! LOL) However, I DO know that I would not have been able to wait 6 years already. As a matter of fact, even though it really wasn't my intent at all, I ended up giving DH and ultimatum. I do not suggest this for everyone. We had been "dating" for 2 years. He had never been married before. I asked him to move in with me (I had just bought a house, he was in an apartment) but was looking for a long-term commitment, preferably legal. He had refused to move in with me. You know, to this day I still don't know why. Anyway, things came to a head one evening, and I told him that although I was willing to wait a bit longer for him, that I would not wait forever. I had limits. I was mostly afraid that he either didn't want to get married EVER (which would have been OK for me for a couple of years longer) or that he didn't want to marry ME. The next day he suggested we get handfasted. There's a great book on men who are serious about marriage. It's called "The List: 7 Ways to tell if He's Going to Marry you." And all of these things occur within 30 days. What the women who wrote this book say is that not everyone takes this path, but a lot do, and it gives women some guidelines to follow if you really have a time clock in your head. It helps when you are trying to figure out if you should fish or cut bait. Good luck!

right1thistime · November 2009

I waited 5 for him to propose to me. One of the things he had told me was that as long as his father was alive (he was pretty much in a near vegitative state) and required his care and attention, he could not think about getting married. This made NO sense to me. I talked with a friend who- much to my surprise- had done EXACTLY the same thing to her now DH when HER mother was ill. Something led me to her. She understood my DH's thought process - and what seemed selfish to me- was actually not wanting to shortchange our relationship. Once his Dad had died, he proposed about 16 months later ( he does NOTHING in a hurry, by the way). My answer? "Yes, but..." The but was this "my yes answer has a 24 month expiration date. If we are not married by October 2006, your window of opportunity has passed." We were married July 2006. (By the way, he is also a procrastinator, and I knew that if I did not set the timeline, we'd still be in the planning stages!!) Jeanni- hear this gently - is he so consumed with getting his connection to his daughter back that he cannot fully focus on marrying you right now? And even gentler- are you obsessing on a wedding, and missing what the man you want to be married to is asking from you? Maybe the solution might be to plan a quiet dinner, I- personally- would limit the alcohol, with an agenda planned to talk about the feelings you both have in regards to the custody situation and getting married. Plan to do a lot of listening and a lot of using the phrase "When you do X, I feel like..." Keep the tone low and loving. I think his heart is breaking over his daughter, and yours over the thought that he doesn't love you enough to put you first over his daughter (a VERY dangerous request to make to a parent), and both of you are not really hearing the other. Would he consider a simple wedding (no hoopla at all) now, and a celebration held once his daughter can attend? Could you deal with that? ~Donna

jeannigirl · November 2009

Right1: Yes he is totally consumed with his daughter and getting her back. That and work and making sure we don't lose our home is all he seems to have the energy to pursue. Wedding isn't in the running at this time. I know that if the shoe was on the other foot and I was the one I would hope that my man loved me enough to wait and also to love me and fight with me to gain the rights to my child. So I will just have to contuine to walk this walk and fight this battle with him for the rights of his daughter. Thanks for shedding another perspective and view. I appreciate it. I agree I think that a nice quiet dinner and no alchol involved and have a heart to heart about our future together.

hollieheidi · November 2009

I can see this from two perspectives and I hope that I can explain this understandably.... I know that if the shoe was on the other foot and I was the one I would hope that my man loved me enough to wait and also to love me and fight with me to gain the rights to my child. While we all dream of this kind of love it's not necessarily a healthy way to look at things. There are so many issues that we cannot control in the fight for our children that I think it's unreasonable to expect anyone to put their lives (your life) on hold. This leaves you at the mercy of the ex, the courts, etc. I understand your feeling that this is not a fair expectation.We spent a year in a custody/visitation arrangement that we were not satisfied with, but at no time did I expect my soon-to-be to wait on his feelings for me. I didn't feel that putting a distance or qualification on our relationship in that way was healthy for our relationship.I felt that I needed to nurture our relationship and that I wanted a partner in that fight. I felt that it would be unfair to keep him out of that fight if he was to be their step parent one day.With all of that said, I also see his point in that he's focused on the fight and maintaining a lifestyle and household for the two of you. Men tend to feel that "everything" has to be right before they can proceed. They want everything perfect before they get married and make that committment. They don't get the emotional aspect and the significance of being a wife and part of the family.I agree with pps that you need to specifically understand HIS reason for why he cannot think of the wedding. The anger may just be frustration that he cannot move on, his not moving on may be his fear of not being able to be dedicated to you or his fear of being able to provide in this economy....I agree with the dinner and the honest, and I mean, honest discussion about where your relationship is and what your plans are. It may just be what you need to make sure that you both are working toward the SAME goal. You have to understand and be prepared that the answers you get may not be the ones that you want to hear. Please put your ideas aside for the evening and REALLY HEAR what it is that he has to say. Don't assume or try to put words in his mouth, but just try to move on and make a plan together.I applaud you for wanting advice and caring so much. I said the previous paragraph just becuase it needed to be said, I think you are the kind of woman who is willing to listen and not jump to conclusions. It makes me happy to know that you are so concerned with the state of your relationship and it is obvious your love for this man. I hope that you two can come together on this issue and that you can both make decisions that will assure each other about your future in the relationship and where it is going. Good Luck!

jeannigirl · November 2009

holliheidi: He has mentioned numerous times that he thinks he is not a good husband because he can't give me all the things I want. I tell him its not about materialistic things. He has provided a beautiful home in which we selected together. He bought me a good car and makes sure it is always serviced regulary. He is a very motivated and very hard worker and will do what ever it takes to pay the bills. (I do also take care of household expenses) I feel like sometimes he doesn't believe me and it is hurtful at times. He has expereinced some very tramatic things within the last 5 years and sometimes I feel totally helpless. I do love him very much and do want to spend the rest of what life we have together.

hollieheidi · November 2009

It's so hard trying to convince them and you are really happy and that being with them is what makes you happy. I wish you guys the best! Keep us posted and I'm sure the other ladies on this board will have some wonderful advice and insight for you too! Again, it's refreshing to see someone willing to try and work it out. We'll keep you in our thoughts and prayers!

jeannigirl · November 2009

Holliheid: Ok I checked out your bio and I love your wedding dress especially the back of the dress that is so totally awesome. I almost want one like it. Your wedding ideas are very cool, never seen anything like some of your things before. How fun that they speak of you has a couple.

hollieheidi · November 2009

thank you

right1thistime · November 2009

Jeanni - maybe you need to print out the "It's Normal" post FOR HIM!! I think we forget sometimes that these men who have been through the wringer have as much post divorce stress as we do! ~Donna

jeannigirl · November 2009

No kidding huh. I think he is so leary has his ex cheated on him twice after their marriage. I told him that I haven't cheated on my ex or any committed relationships so you can put that out of your mind. We have been together longer that him and his ex were married. They weren't together all that long before they got married. Give me a break.

thealphabride · November 2009

Hi jeanninegirl, Sorry this is long....bear with me please.... I have read your post very carefully. I have a few thoughts. I don't remember your entire situation or probably missed some of your posts so forgive me because I am going just on information that is current or that I remember. I have some questions as well. I understand the being his girlfriend and wanting to be married, how long do you wait? You will wait until: Either YOU make a decision about YOUR LIFE, or he makes the decision about YOUR LIFE. Have you considered he may be a commitment phobe? Do some reading on the subject he very well may be one. He has purchased you a home and a car you live together like man and wife. You share a home and a bed, and a life. Now don't get me wrong, I totally totally get that you want to be married. 6 years and living together is long enough. Some might bash me for this but I think this situation calls for maybe a quiet small wedding and then a reception when his daughter can be included. He has called you selfish for wanting a wedding. HMMM, I think he's selfish for making you put YOUR LIFE in a holding pattern for him, his wants, his needs, his life hmmmm, what about your life? How long have you lived together? Why do you live together with him if you don't have the benefit of marriage? iS THERE ANY WAY YOU CAN LIVE ON YOUR OWN? This statement is not to be judgemental, just for you to think about. I have nothing against living together, I have lived together in my past. Do you have children? 6 years is a long time since he clearly knows what you want. I understand the situation with his daughter, but I don't remember the details of the problem. I also remember a few months back the wedding was totally off for a while, and it had to do with him thinking you all couldn't afford a wedding but don't remember the daughter situation. You stated you felt he was just using that as an excuse. But before it was money. Sweetie, I feel for you. I also am with a man who did not want to marry. He would have dated me forever, and lived together had I agreed. I would never agree to live together because I own my home now and will not sell it to move in with him to be his girfriend, just wasn't happening. We dated about 4 years (and 3 months) before the engagement. The wedding is 18 months after the engagement, for a variety of reasons, mostly to get our boys grown up a bit more before we blend the family. Mine is 13, his 16. And for me to save to pay for it. He accepted that I wouldn't live together. I really want to be married to him, so I feel as you do. This is what I did: I sat down with him at his home quietly for a talk when we are alone, it was our 4 year dating anniversary. I explained to him first his point of view, so he knows I understand him and his point of view. I then explained my point of view, that I want to be married, but not to someone I have to beg to marry, I will not go there. I explained I have a timeline for MYSELF that I have set. I won't wait for him forever. He wants to raise his son to high school graduation first, he says, then we will marry. I explained to him that If he really means it, he will ask me, if he doesn't ask, in a timely maner, I just won't be strung along (just turned age 50) I will move on. I was fully prepared to WALK OUT ON HIM on my date that I had set for myself. I never shared that date with him. In the end all I really want is to be married to him and not be his forever girlfriend. I felt just like you do now. I could see this going on forever if I let it. I told him if he really really really doesn't want to get married to me then let me go, and tell me now, so I can find someone who I can spend the second half of my life with. That this is not just his decision, I have a life and I have options to consider as well. This is my life too, and life is short, and precious. He won't decide how long I will wait. I will decide. We kissed and he understood, I never said another word about it and again I was fully prepared to walk out on my date that I had set for myself. (which was 6 months in the future, he proposed 3 months before that date) When he asked me to marry him, he was ready and wanted it as much as I did. He is excited and fully on board with the wedding plans. He is helping me plan. It turned out good, so I did set an ultimatum, but not for him, FOR ME.

jeannigirl · November 2009

Alphabride: I just got back on here. I read your response. I know that I have to really look at realize yes I don't want to put my life on hold forever. I do have to make a descision and decide on a timeline that I want to seal the deal on a marriage or not. I do understand that he has also put his life on hold but I feel that he doesn't seem to understand that its not only his life but mine that he has put on hold. I will also be turning 50 here soon. I am just tired of being a gf. I'm not 20 anymore its old after awhile. He has been fighting for his rights to see his child for about 13 years now and he will contuine to fight for her until he gets those rights given back to him. I have always encouraged him to never give up that fight. I don't want to be selfish in any way, and I really feel that I'm not because I want to become his wife. I understand that he wants his daughter to be there for that day ( and I want that for him too) but either I wait for that or make the decision to move on in my own life. I do know one thing is that I do need to talk with him on this soon. Thanks for being another view on this matter.

right1thistime · November 2009

Jeanni - 13 YEARS??? /////Record screech///// Ok, that - to me- is a bit different. Because unless you've seen serious progress toward that goal, it may NEVER happen. Hearbreaking indeed, but possible. Have you had the conversation with him about what happens when she turns 18 and wants nothing to do with him? The battle is OVER at that point, unless he intends to pursue her forever, leaving you waiting. I will reiterate that you need that conversation, but you may need a couple of visits with a couples counselor to dig deeper. I know he's disappointed that he has not reconnected with her, and I feel for him. But is this battle even winnable? Yikes. ~Donna

jeannigirl · November 2009

I made a mistake its not 13 its 10 but anyways it still is a very long time that has passed. I sometimes feel at a loss for words has I don't want him to think that I don't care or it isn't important to me for him to be happy and have his child. I am really trying to be in tune with him and work with him but it is getting harder and harder to do that. Its frustrating for me to feel like our lifes together cannot go further then where were at right now.

thealphabride · November 2009

Hey Jeanninegirl, I cannot tell you how much I know how you feel right now. You want to marry and he won't budge. When a man shows you who he is: BELIEVE HIM. He has shown you, think about it. Look at what he DOES not what he SAYS. He says sometimes that he wants to marry you but his actions do not back it up at all. He is not excited about the wedding and gives you grief all the time about it. In one of the posts you said he was afraid because his first wife cheated on him. If that is one of his excuses, and won't marry because he thinks you will cheat on him... I would take the stance of being totally insulted by that remark. You have been together longer than he was with his first wife, he doesn't trust you????!!!! Tell him you are no longer interested in marrying him and start saving your own money to get your own place. Make a show of looking at places. Is it possible for you to live on your own? Can you afford it? You cannot keep doing the same things and expect a different result. You have to do something different that will work for YOU, YOUR LIFE!!!! This is about you now, not him. This man seems to only be interested in pleasing himself. If you marry what will be different in your lives? Nothing becuase you already live together, nothing at all. Maybe your tax status, but that's it. He's full of excuses, the sooner you realize it and make a decision about your own life, the better off you will be.

How long do you Wait

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