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What do you think about lying?

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Re: What do you think about lying?

  • In Response to Re: What do you think about lying?:
    See, my field goes a lot on gut instinct mixed with data and research and really trying to meet people where they are at, so I'm hypervigilant to understanding and knowing that how IIIII feel about something doesn't mean that that is how someone else feels about it, and it certainly doesn't mean I'm right. So I tend to go more to that angle than what I think is right and good. My value set is different than someone elses, and so is yours. We can't assume they are all the same.
    Posted by crfische
    Can I ask what your field is?  I'm nosey and curious?
  • In Response to Re: What do you think about lying?:
    But I need examples of these lies that benefit society to make an informed decision because up to this point, I don't really see one. And, it's a hypothesis. We have NO IDEA what a completely truthful society would look like. Hence, we don't know if it would flourish or not. Have you read Divergent? That faction seems to do just fine, the ones that are completely unable to lie.
    Posted by crfische
    Here's one: A NASA scientist (or a whackadoo religious radio host, take your pick) knows that the end of the earth as we know it is approaching us in just 7 short hours. Tell the people the truth and create utter and mass chaos for the last 7 hours on earth, or don't tell the truth and let the last 7 hours of human existence be in relative peace? Mill would argue that not telling the truth in this instance results, the the aggregate, the greatest amount of happiness for the largest number of people, while telling the truth would not have the same result. Whatever creates the most happiness in the aggregate = the moral decision. (According to Mill.)
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  • In Response to Re: What do you think about lying?:
    Oh yeah, I do. Especially if the assignment is supposed to be a gut reaction to how you feel about something, then that is different.
    Posted by crfische
    Exactly. 

    I did find polls/studies on how parents will act more selfish when their children are involved but that isn't necessarily a litmus test of the general selfish character of the world population.  That's why I find law a much bigger challenge then I did chemistry or economics.  In those classes, for the most part, there was a right or wrong answer.....in law I swear there are 500 right answers and another 500 wrong ones.  Pick and choose what you'd like.
  • In Response to Re: What do you think about lying?:
    In Response to Re: What do you think about lying? : Exactly.  I did find polls/studies on how parents will act more selfish when their children are involved but that isn't necessarily a litmus test of the general selfish character of the world population.  That's why I find law a much bigger challenge then I did chemistry or economics.  In those classes, for the most part, there was a right or wrong answer.....in law I swear there are 500 right answers and another 500 wrong ones.  Pick and choose what you'd like.
    Posted by aprovencher21

    That would drive me insane. I like absolutes.
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  • Aprov, I'm a therapist. Children and families mostly.

    And I would argue that Mill doesn't know me very well because if I have 7 hours left? I would want to know I have seven hours left. That again is a philosophical argument, which I get it, it's what he is, but we don't know how people would react. We speculate, and of course assume the worst of people. I usually choose to not assume the worst in people. Which is so weird, because when our nation has been faced with uncertainty and tragedy, I've seen us more come together than rip each other apart. 9/11, Katrina, tornadoes, floods... The things that have resulted in pillaging and looting have been hate crimes, or crimes against society.

    Mill is a pessimist.
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  • In Response to Re: What do you think about lying?:
    In Response to Re: What do you think about lying? : Here's one: A NASA scientist (or a whackadoo religious radio host, take your pick) knows that the end of the earth as we know it is approaching us in just 7 short hours. Tell the people the truth and create utter and mass chaos for the last 7 hours on earth, or don't tell the truth and let the last 7 hours of human existence be in relative peace? Mill would argue that not telling the truth in this instance results, the the aggregate, the greatest amount of happiness for the largest number of people, while telling the truth would not have the same result. Whatever creates the most happiness in the aggregate = the moral decision. (According to Mill.)
    Posted by mattsdorothy
    I would be really pissed if they didnt tell me the world was about it end.
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  • In Response to Re: What do you think about lying?:
    Aprov, I'm a therapist. Children and families mostly. And I would argue that Mill doesn't know me very well because if I have 7 hours left? I would want to know I have seven hours left. That again is a philosophical argument, which I get it, it's what he is, but we don't know how people would react. We speculate, and of course assume the worst of people. I usually choose to not assume the worst in people. Which is so weird, because when our nation has been faced with uncertainty and tragedy, I've seen us more come together than rip each other apart. 9/11, Katrina, tornadoes, floods... The things that have resulted in pillaging and looting have been hate crimes, or crimes against society. Mill is a pessimist.
    Posted by crfische
    I wanted to be a psychiatrist for about 10 hot mintutes when I was planning on going to medical school.  Then I realized I didn't have the emotional ability to handle/help people like that.  I'm sure you're logical and at the same time emotionally wonderful as a therapist.  Just from "knowing" you on here I can see where that would be an great job for you.

    I can see both sides of the end of world argument.  I know H would prefer not to know.....and I might prefer to know. 
  • Well, thank you. It's a job I love, that I'm passionate about, and that I look forward to doing, so that helps! :)

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  • In Response to Re: What do you think about lying?:
    Well, thank you. It's a job I love, that I'm passionate about, and that I look forward to doing, so that helps! :)
    Posted by crfische
    You're welcome.  I hope to end up in a job I'm passionate about.  That would make school completely worth it. 
  • The first time I went to school it was for psychology.  But I realized after the fact that I dont care enough about other peoples problems.
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  • In Response to Re: What do you think about lying?:
    Mery your sig photo is distracting.  I want the beer in the glass please.  What kind was it? I believe it was you I once had a long ago conversation with about scotch right??  I was just given a bottle of Isle of Sky....amazing.
    Posted by aprovencher21
    It was probably a hefeweizen? It was at Hofbrauhaus in Las Vegas in February. They only have a few kinds, so it was either hef or a maltier/darker one (like an amber?)... I think I switched on and off that night. And I'm going BACK to Vegas TOMORROW!

    And yeah, it was probably me talking about scotch. Scotch, scotch, scotch. I've been concentrating on the beer lately. Gotta get back into scotch. A new whiskey AND beer place opened in Hollywood and I want to check it out.
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  • In Response to Re: What do you think about lying?:
    In Response to Re: What do you think about lying? : Here's one: A NASA scientist (or a whackadoo religious radio host, take your pick) knows that the end of the earth as we know it is approaching us in just 7 short hours. Tell the people the truth and create utter and mass chaos for the last 7 hours on earth, or don't tell the truth and let the last 7 hours of human existence be in relative peace? Mill would argue that not telling the truth in this instance results, the the aggregate, the greatest amount of happiness for the largest number of people, while telling the truth would not have the same result. Whatever creates the most happiness in the aggregate = the moral decision. (According to Mill.)
    Posted by mattsdorothy
    I was thinking of something like this. What about in situations where there's an emergency - a nuclear leak or a crazed gunman - and a school or building is on lock down? Do they tell all the kids about the people who have been killed/affected so far? No. They limit the amount of information being released so as usually not to induce mass panic.
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  • I skimmed most of this, to be honest.  I think I get the jist of it all though.

    In my opinion, I think it's ok to lie sometimes to spare someone's feelings.  But to protect yourself and save your own ass? That's just lame.  I mean, have I lied before? Of course. Do I like it? Nope.  I try really hard to be honest, as much as I can at least.
  • In Response to Re: What do you think about lying?:
    I should say, too, and I've said it earlier as well,  that it seems to me, that people generally lie to benefit THEMSELVES, not to benefit society. Most people don't  lie thinking, Hmmm....how is this going to end war and bring world peace. They lie to avoid consequences for themselves.
    Posted by crfische

    See, this is the difference for me between a regular lie and a "little white lie". I'm totally okay with the latter; sparing someone's feelings, etc.. But that last part right there is why I think if everyone were completely honest, it'd be a disaster. Most people are assholes, and while it might not be absolutely critical to the world that we pretend to like each other, it does make things go a hell of a lot more smoothly. 
  • But see, that's also where your own opinion is clouding your judgment of other people. Like, I truly believe that most people aren't assholes. Are there people who do assholey things? Sure. And most people are also honest with said people when they do assholey things. I don't know about you, but I don't usually hang around assholes. I tend to try to surround myself with people I wouldn't need to lie to to make them like me. I also think that instead of little white lies, there is a truthful response you could give that would be appropriate to the situation, and also not a lie.
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  • I think if you operate on the premise that people are inherently bad, your perspective is going to be differently than if you operate on the premise that people are inherently good. I truly believe that people are inherently good, giving me hope that a truthful society is more than possible. I would rather go for that than come up with excuses for why it's ok to perpetuate lying. Do you like being lied to? No. Most people don't. And when asked for qualities they look for in friends or a mate, most people have honesty on their list. It's kind of a sellout to put caveats on our qualities, don't cha think?
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    Vacation with Alix, Andy, Mandy, and FLORENCE. AND HER MACHINE.

    The Margarita Evolution
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