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civil + religious ceremonies

Ana_2985Ana_2985 member
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I was planning on getting married outside the US in a Catholic ceremony so I began researching the marriage laws regarding this situation (thanks to Jeana for the tip!).  The country we are going to requires proof of a civil wedding at least 30 days prior to the religious ceremony.  I feel weird about that but apparently that's the typical procedure for many other countries.

Does anyone have any idea whether the religious ceremony would be a wedding or a convalidation?  Is there a difference in the ceremonies?  According to one website, "a  convalidation is not the time for a big church wedding with bridesmaids".

I've tried looking everywhere - county/state laws, US laws, archdiocese rules- but I can't find an answer.  Any suggestions on where else I should look?
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Re: civil + religious ceremonies

  • jeanacorinajeanacorina
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    edited December 2011
    Depends on the country. In Mexico (which is where we originally considered going), the religious ceremony is the big (usually Catholic) wedding with the bridesmaids and poofy dress and everything. The civil ceremony is just the legal side of things.

    I'd imagine most countries have similar customs.

    I just researched convalidation ceremonies a little, and it does seem like the custom in some countries is to have a private civil marriage and then the convalidation ceremony is the wedding.

    I don't really understand why.... maybe it's kind of like how we get our marriage license early, we just don't sign it (and are technically not married).

    Or... something.

    I wouldn't worry too much. If you know someone who lives in the country where you're getting married, I'd ask them about wedding customs. Or just Google it. That works.
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  • Ana_2985Ana_2985 member
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    edited December 2011
    You were right- this is a big pain in the ass.  I guess I'll keep trying google until we can get in touch with someone who already got married there.  But I'm not sure if they were US citizens.  I was just worried that if we were legally married so far in advance it would feel like the religious ceremony was just for show.
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  • bakes218bakes218
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    edited December 2011
    Why don't you consider any of the US Virgin Islands for a ceremony? That way your ceremony (civil or in a church) will be legal in the US.
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  • Ana_2985Ana_2985 member
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    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_civil-religious-ceremonies?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:a059911b-2cee-4aad-8119-32465037bb67Post:2a131df8-e88c-436b-84c2-3265b1f41551">Re: civil + religious ceremonies</a>:
    [QUOTE]Why don't you consider any of the US Virgin Islands for a ceremony? That way your ceremony (civil or in a church) will be legal in the US.
    Posted by bakes218[/QUOTE]

    The reason we're thinking of getting married abroad is because my FI's family lives there, not necessarily because we want a destination wedding.

    But I would love a vacation in the USVI :)
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  • jeanacorinajeanacorina
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    edited December 2011
    Hmm.... ideas popping into my head:

    -Get legally married in the US (just JOP it) and have the religious ceremony in whatever country you're going to. Some Knotties may frown on that, but if the religious side of things is most important to you, I think the legal document is just a formality. Why not make it easier by just heading to the courthouse and signing the paper (no vows or anything)?

    -What you're doing may not be a convalidation anyway if you're just signing papers and not living as a married couple until the religious ceremony. In the Church's eyes, a piece of paper issued by the government doesn't make you REALLY married anyway.

    -Doesn't your FI's family live there? Can't you (or he) ask them about it, maybe have someone do a little research FOR you? It would be easier to get questions answered while physically THERE instead of trying to piece it together on the internet.

    -What country is it? Maybe one (or more) of us can find some sort of reliable source of information for you. Are you and FI both US citizens?
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  • NarwhalNarwhal
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    edited December 2011
    I'm just throwing this out there, and I really have no idea how this kind of stuff works, but I like Jeana's idea of getting legally married in the states and then just having the vows when you get to the other country like you planned. But my idea is maybe getting the license here, and not signing it, and actually signing it after your religious ceremony.  Maybe one of your family members that is from the US could take whatever notary courses are necessary and sign it.  To the US, that person would have married you, but you would still have everything in the "right" order.

    Then again, that literally popped into my head in like five minutes, so whether its possible (or legal!) is another story. ;)
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  • Ana_2985Ana_2985 member
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    edited December 2011
    Jeana - Yes, I assumed we would do the civil part here and bring the paperwork to Guatemala.  I know people usually aren't happy about that but if it's the law for that country there's no way around it.  And I certainly wouldn't lie about it to anyone.

    His family does live there, but they're not citizens so I'm not sure how much they know.  Although I just remembered that one of his mother's friends had a daughter (US citizens) get married there so I bet we could talk to her about it.  Thanks for the suggestion.

    And yes we are both US citizens.
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  • Ana_2985Ana_2985 member
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    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_civil-religious-ceremonies?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:a059911b-2cee-4aad-8119-32465037bb67Post:6612c09a-4165-4ec0-b685-28b25818c50e">Re: civil + religious ceremonies</a>:
    [QUOTE]Then again, that literally popped into my head in like five minutes, so whether its possible (or legal!) is another story. ;)
    Posted by Narwhal[/QUOTE]

    Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't think it is legal.  But from what I understand priests in Guatemala don't have the legal authority that priests in the US have.  So we would still have to do a civil thing separately and at least a month before the church wedding.

    Or we could skip everything entirely and get married in the US.
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  • NarwhalNarwhal
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    edited December 2011
    Haha I just realized that my suggestion made no sense to your problem about the 30 day waiting period thing.

    I'm goofy sometimes. It's been a long week so far.
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  • oceana919oceana919
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    edited December 2011

    Ana, check your PMs :)

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    "Oceana swings from logical to anus punching." - Buttons

    Planning / Married / Blog

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  • Ana_2985Ana_2985 member
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    edited December 2011
    Oceana - YGPM back.
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  • jeanacorinajeanacorina
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    edited December 2011
    HEY! This is a very interesting topic you guys. Don't be shady. Surprised
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  • Ana_2985Ana_2985 member
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    edited December 2011
    Sorry Jeana!

    I was just saying that I've calmed down about it.  I think that because the church does not have the same legal power that they have in the US, it is still considered a wedding ceremony, not a convalidation ceremony, so it won't be any different.  Otherwise, how would people ever have Catholic "weddings" there?

    But I'm still going to check with someone's who's done it to be sure.
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  • jeanacorinajeanacorina
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    edited December 2011
    That sounds good. And I agree with you-- the convalidation stuff all seems to be based in the US. But then, I mean, I wasn't searching for articles in another language or anything.

    When in Rome (or anywhere else), do as the Romans do. Not as the Americans do. That would just be... silly.
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  • romastylistromastylist member
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    edited December 2011
    Ana: I know how you feel. I am having a catholic ceremony in May but was married by the civil court last week. I am American but live in Rome and my fiance (husband) is Italian. The catholic priest said that I had to have a civil ceremony first ONLY because of paperwork and the paperwork was a lot! In order to give you a valid marriage certificate (which if you only do it there you will have to have it officially translated and then stamped with an apostile to have it be legal in the u.s.) they have to verify that you are who you say you are and many other things. On the other hand, if you are already have had a civil marriage, than the church only cares about making sure you have the catholic requirements.

    With all that said, only our parents and a few friends know that we are already "officially" married and we will use our May ceremony as our wedding for all purposes. Also, civil ceremonies take 5 minutes in front of a judge with 2 people and mine did not feel like a wedding at all. I know it sounds strange to you now, but we treated ours like a rehearsal. The priest is still going to do a normal ceremony as a Catholic marriage rite is treated the same no matter what it says at a courthouse.

    Hope it all works out the way you would like!
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