'Gay Marriage'

jenningz · June 2012

There's uproar at the moment in the UK because of this consultation that's been released today about allowing Gay Marriage in church...

As far as I'm concerned 'Marriage' is Biblical, and should therefore only be for men and women... I have several homosexual friends, whom I love - but I would not agree for them to be married.

It's all about the definition of the word really.

Opinions?

fpaemp2011 · June 2012

Here are my {American} thoughts.

I do believe that homosexuality is a sin. That is clearly stated in the Bible, in both testaments. Lying, sex outside of marriage, covetousness, not honoring authority, and many other things are also sins and God doesn't hold one higher or lower than the others.

I believe that marriage is a covenant between one man, one woman, and God, with the Church as witnesses.

I do, however, take issue with states and the federal government making laws based on religious beliefs. I don't think the state should be able to say who someone can live, adopt children, file taxes, or make medical decisions with (I know those are VERY general, but I don't want to write a book).

I also don't think that the state or federal government should require a pastor, church, or business to host or sponsor a celebration they do not support.

GunzNRoses213 · June 2012

Biblically speaking it's for a man and a woman. Simple as that. If it's recognized under a state law and not under a church that's their business..

I have gay friends as well and people who are Chirstians that support Gay marriage. It's a dicy subject for more people and Christians are all being labled for the sometimes awful responses that other Christians have been having.

Suddenly we are the ones who are out of line and judmental and being told we are wrong for being against it ... God's against it ... That's what we are to stand for.

So it's one more reason people say the Church is the one that's wrong ...

If there was a way to have it be through the state or whatever and not recognized by the church it might be the only way to make everybody happy.. No I do not like that option either but which battles should we fight anymore that obviously is making more damage. for the overwall good ?

Sorry if that didnt make sense...

here just read this ... it's my dad's blog ... it kind explaine it

http://theostory.wordpress.com/2012/03/02/

agape1cor813 · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_gay-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:4ecaee0f-373a-4133-8b57-0e8dc6579b65Post:8b3deea3-7313-437f-952c-115bdc1c0d5d">Re: 'Gay Marriage'</a>:
[QUOTE]Here are my {American} thoughts. I do believe that homosexuality is a sin. That is clearly stated in the Bible, in both testaments. Lying, sex outside of marriage, covetousness, not honoring authority, and many other things are also sins and God doesn't hold one higher or lower than the others. I believe that marriage is a covenant between one man, one woman, and God, with the Church as witnesses. I do, however, take issue with states and the federal government making laws based on religious beliefs. I don't think the state should be able to say who someone can live, adopt children, file taxes, or make medical decisions with (I know those are VERY general, but I don't want to write a book). I also don't think that the state or federal government should require a pastor, church, or business to host or sponsor a celebration they do not support.
Posted by fpaemp2011[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>I agree with pretty much everything you wrote. As long as no one goes into my church saying "you have to marry gay couples or there will be reprecussions" I'm a bit laissez-faire on the whole issue.

</div>

peachykeen26 · June 2012

I believe that homosexuality is a sin. However, it is a forgiveable sin.
Biblicy speaking, as with PP's, marriage is Holy and blessed by God for one man and one woman.
I only believe there is one unforgiveable sin and that is denying Christ unto death.

ochemjenn · June 2012

My understanding of the Bible is that marriage is between man and woman, not man and man or woman and woman. However, I feel like "love thy neighbor as thyself" trumps that. Meaning, as a mere human, it is not my place to judge to whom a person wants to commit him/herself. Their sin of homosexuality is no better or worse than my many sins.

I don't think the government - any government - should force a church (any church, synagog, etc) to perform a marriage the church does not want to perform. If a church deems it appropriate to perform a marriage between two consenting adults, even if it's two men, that's ok with me too because it is not for me to decide.

runpipparun · June 2012

Disagree wholeheartedly. There are plenty of things re: marriage and other things in the Bible that we Christians choose to disregard entirely (please do go back and read the Old Testament; it will shock you what men are allowed to do and what women are to submit to). Why do we cling to this one so strongly when the Bible was clearly written in another time for another audience. (If you want proof, look at another culture who clings to their ancient text literally --- radical Islam.) God gave us reason, and He intends us to use it. He does not want us to employ slavery, or want women to have to marry their dead husband's brothers because some guy who lived thousands of years ago wrote it down once.

When Christ came, he took the 10 Commandments, which are a "Thou Shalt Not" format and changed things. The first three/four refer to how we interact with God, right? Thou Shalt Not Have Any Gods Before Me, etc. The next six/seven refer to how we interact with one another. Thou shalt not murder, thou shalt not commit adultery, etc.

Christ simplified things and told us what TO DO in TWO commandments. Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with your whole heart, and thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

We are to treat everyone equally.

Does this mean we let people sleep with children? Or dogs? No, children and dogs are not able to give consent. But consenting adults are consenting adults. We are to love them and treat them equally, give them the same rights, because Christ would have done the same with them as he did with lepers, prostitutes, women, Samaritans, etc.

ochemjenn · June 2012

I came across this on pinterest a while ago. I sums up my thoughts pretty well.

GunzNRoses213 · June 2012

Jesus clearly stated it was an abomination....

True enough... Sin is sin ... It's forgivable but it dosnt look like these people see it as sin ...

jenningz · June 2012

I agree... It's more the definition, like I said before - people get too caught up in that and THATS what I believe should be kept sacred. I have a number of gay friends, whom I love, it's not my place to judge them, so I just love them. I'm more concerned about Churches being slandered because they refuse to carry out a marriage between a same sex couple, than the actual act. People are entitled to stick to their beliefs... and as always, you don't see them demanding equality from other religions like Islam, who are VERY clear on what they think about Homosexuality.

DramaGeek · June 2012

I'm with Emily on the idea that the government shouldn't be all up in church business. In fact, I've thought for a long time that "marriage" should actual be two parts - the civil and the religious. People could opt for a civil union (the government side) and/or marriage (the religious side).

That said, I have a hard time with the "homosexuality is a sin" thing. i know, I know...but as my cousin once said to me "if it was a choice, do you really think this is what I'd choose?" That put it in a whole new perspective for me. it's hard for me to believe that our God would create people who are gay and then tell them that their nature, the way he created them, is sinful.

SugarFoote · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_gay-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:4ecaee0f-373a-4133-8b57-0e8dc6579b65Post:38422b2a-f350-42c5-a190-bbea7da49d1d">Re: 'Gay Marriage'</a>:
[QUOTE]My understanding of the Bible is that marriage is between man and woman, not man and man or woman and woman. However, I feel like "love thy neighbor as thyself" trumps that. Meaning, as a mere human, it is not my place to judge to whom a person wants to commit him/herself. Their sin of homosexuality is no better or worse than my many sins. I don't think the government - any government - should force a church (any church, synagog, etc) to perform a marriage the church does not want to perform. If a church deems it appropriate to perform a marriage between two consenting adults, even if it's two men, that's ok with me too because it is not for me to decide.
Posted by ochemjenn[/QUOTE]

I agree with this 100%

GunzNRoses213 · June 2012

God also created alcholics, pedifilers and rapists......

It is a choice to follow sin or follow God.

There's a guy who was a pastor and came out that he was gay ... he found a ministry to help people get out of the gay lifestyle ... It's in NY It's called Life ministiers...

Living In Freedom Eternally... He explained things differently with the "choice " ...

jenningz · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_gay-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:4ecaee0f-373a-4133-8b57-0e8dc6579b65Post:4f3565b1-d18c-470b-83ae-9e3d46013274">Re: 'Gay Marriage'</a>:
[QUOTE]God also created alcholics, pedifilers and rapists...... It is a choice to follow sin or follow God. There's a guy who was a pastor and came out that he was gay ... he found a ministry to help people get out of the gay lifestyle ... It's in NY It's called Life ministiers... Living In Freedom Eternally... He explained things differently with the "choice " ...
Posted by GunzNRoses213[/QUOTE]

This is true.
My mum's uncle is gay, and he's devoted to Jesus and has chosen to live life as a celebate man, it's been really tough - I think a lot of young people (I know a few) who have simply chosen it as a lifestyle, but I do believe people are born that way... but not everyone...and yes it is hard, I can't imagine having to chose to live life without love because I wasn't attracted to the gender I should be.

And yeah, I like the idea of seperate legal and religious :)

GunzNRoses213 · June 2012

http://lifeministry.org/

We found out my mom's uncle was gay a few years ago but he never told us directly [LONG story]

And my FI two uncles are both gay.. Raised catholic... One was straight until his wife left him for another man ... And now one of his kids is gay as well ... Things happen that put things into your mind into warfare with what is right and wrong ... And to me sometimes the sin /devil wins ...

SugarFoote · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_gay-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:4ecaee0f-373a-4133-8b57-0e8dc6579b65Post:4aa7457a-2220-4fa9-b169-14a8a01996f5">Re: 'Gay Marriage'</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: 'Gay Marriage' : This is true. My mum's uncle is gay, and he's devoted to Jesus and has chosen to live life as a celebate man, it's been really tough - I think a lot of young people (I know a few) who have simply chosen it as a lifestyle,<strong> but I do believe people are born that way</strong>... but not everyone...and yes it is hard, I can't imagine having to chose to live life without love because I wasn't attracted to the gender I should be. And yeah, I like the idea of seperate legal and religious :)
Posted by jenningz[/QUOTE]

No one is born "that way". It is a choice.

DramaGeek · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_gay-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:4ecaee0f-373a-4133-8b57-0e8dc6579b65Post:6fd50c0a-02b7-44db-8ea5-a60ea657046d">Re: 'Gay Marriage'</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: 'Gay Marriage' : No one is born "that way". It is a choice.
Posted by SugarFoote[/QUOTE]

I respectfully disagree. There's loads of scientific research showing chemical differences in those who are gay vs those who aren't. I know far too many people who tried not to be gay and failed to think it's a choice.

GunzNRoses213 · June 2012

No one is born "that way". It is a choice.

I agree... but I do think it's chemically possible to be imbalanced in a number of different ways.... If you read the articles and such from the LIFE ministries it explaines the choice factor... I struggled with it myself until I heard the man's testimony.

I think it could be chemical..Like i said my two soon to be uncles are both gay... Is it possibly part genetic ?

I just cant believe so many kids are turning to it soo young and transgender etc... I knew maybe one kid who was gay in highschool... It was college when people came out ... Now ?? Forget it ...it's middle school and younger ... Sad.

SugarFoote · June 2012

God intended for man to be with woman. If he didn't, he would've made two men or two women. I don't feel like God would create a person to automatically be an abomanation in His eyes. Sure we all sin but that's a choice we make. I'm certain there is many chemical differences in many people who live different lifestyles. But IMHO it's a choice and I will take that to my grave.

mrandmrsbrist · June 2012

I believe it is a sin, but I also believe that all sin is equal. So my lack of control over my tounge is no different than their gay lifestyle. As for them not seeing it as a sin...it's the same thing as me recognizing that my lack of control over my tounge is a sin and my neighbor not realizing it. We're both still sinners.

And while I believe it's a sin, I live in a country where freedom and rights are granted to all. I don't agree with the government making laws based on my religious beliefs. Separation of church and state is just fine with me and I prefer it stayed that way. If they want to get married, I think they should be able to do that.

I also believe they were born that way. Just like I was born with a sin nature, so were they. I struggle with things you don't necessarily struggle with and they struggle with things (like homosexuality) that neither of us struggle with. The bible is pretty clear about us all being born with a sin nature.

naomikb · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_gay-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:4ecaee0f-373a-4133-8b57-0e8dc6579b65Post:3a5a061d-ac37-4970-bdab-b8d55baffc25">Re: 'Gay Marriage'</a>:
[QUOTE]I believe it is a sin, but I also believe that all sin is equal. So my lack of control over my tounge is no different than their gay lifestyle. As for them not seeing it as a sin...it's the same thing as me recognizing that my lack of control over my tounge is a sin and my neighbor not realizing it. We're both still sinners. And while I believe it's a sin, I live in a country where freedom and rights are granted to all.<strong> I don't agree with the government making laws based on my religious beliefs. Separation of church and state is just fine with me and I prefer it stayed that way. If they want to get married, I think they should be able to do that. I also believe they were born that way. </strong>Just like I was born with a sin nature, so were they. I struggle with things you don't necessarily struggle with and they struggle with things (like homosexuality) that neither of us struggle with. The bible is pretty clear about us all being born with a sin nature.
Posted by mrandmrsbrist[/QUOTE]

I'm on board with this and other PPs who've said similar things...

The government has no business being in the church and the church has no business in the government. I am all for 2 separate parts to marriage - the civil and the religious.

The "born this way" vs. "choice" can be debated all day long, sure. I 100% believe that they are "born this way". As several of my gay friends have said -- "why would I choose this?" It is clearly a much harder and challenging path in life. No one would choose it just on a whim because it seemed like fun. Also, science backs us up on this. There are gay behaviours exhibited in animals in nature. Gay people have been around for centuries, this isn't a phenomenon that came out of the hippie 1960s.

SugarFoote · June 2012

I'm not saying that people aren't born with a "sin nature". No one is perfect. But I don't beleive that people are born gay.

I was born a virgin but I made the CHOICE to fornicate.
My neighbor was born sober but made the CHOICE to become an alcoholic.
Murderer's aren't born that way. They make the CHOICE to kill.
"Gay" people aren't born that way either. They make a CHOICE to live that lifestyle.

I feel like a lot of people blame God for things he didn't do. It's not God's fault I had sex before marriage. It's not God's fault that people sin.

DramaGeek · June 2012

My neighbor was born sober but made the CHOICE to become an alcoholic.
Murderer's aren't born that way. They make the CHOICE to kill.

Alcoholism can be traced to a gene. Obviously it's not genetic in everyone, but it is in some. I'll have to find the research, but it's been out there for several years.

Also, there is such a thing as a sociopathic personality. Those people are born that way.

mrandmrsbrist · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_gay-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:4ecaee0f-373a-4133-8b57-0e8dc6579b65Post:5d459b3b-e4cd-4258-8b19-067ce9ad04bc">Re: 'Gay Marriage'</a>:
[QUOTE]My neighbor was born sober but made the CHOICE to become an alcoholic. Murderer's aren't born that way. They make the CHOICE to kill. Alcoholism can be traced to a gene. Obviously it's not genetic in everyone, but it is in some. I'll have to find the research, but it's been out there for several years. Also, there is such a thing as a sociopathic personality. Those people are born that way.
Posted by DramaGeek[/QUOTE]

<div>Drama obviously gets what I was trying to say. The research definitely shows the chemical differences in the brain.</div>

SugarFoote · June 2012

I'm sure everything in life can be traced to a gene. But that doesn't make my daily actions or anyone else's "genetic". That's just an excuse.

Most people in my family drink...heavily. But I don't. I've never touched it. My father did. My grandfather did. My uncles and aunts do. Cousins. The difference is that I was raised that drinking alcoholic beverages was wrong.

It's not acceptable for a person to kill another person and then go to court and plead "insanity"...Sure some of those people are seriously insane. But the majority probably plead it just to try to get out of it.

But I guess if I decide to forget about my raising and faith become an alcoholic murderer who steals, cheats, lies, and I guess become gay as well, I will just blame God and "genes"....because apparently that is acceptable now

GunzNRoses213 · June 2012

SugarFoote I just love you

And I totally agree

DramaGeek · June 2012

I don't think ANY of us are saying that genetics make it acceptable, just that they're fighting a harder fight than you might realize. You aren't an alcoholic because you've never had a drink, but if you have the gene and you start, it's very possible you wouldn't be able to stop.

And having dealt with a psychotic break in two family members, insanity is a very, very real thing and it can cause people to do things they would never do otherwise. I never thought my conservative, fundamentalist Christian MIL would take the police on a 140 mph car chase, but she did just that.

SugarFoote · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_gay-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:4ecaee0f-373a-4133-8b57-0e8dc6579b65Post:1335aa16-5109-40fc-82de-724165bb3665">Re: 'Gay Marriage'</a>:
[QUOTE]SugarFoote I just love you :) And I totally agree
Posted by GunzNRoses213[/QUOTE]

haha I love you too!

SugarFoote · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_gay-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:4ecaee0f-373a-4133-8b57-0e8dc6579b65Post:00ffb523-7d71-4d8a-832d-3d8a96b06e1d">Re: 'Gay Marriage'</a>:
[QUOTE]I don't think ANY of us are saying that genetics make it acceptable, just that they're fighting a harder fight than you might realize. You aren't an alcoholic because you've never had a drink, but if you have the gene and you start, it's very possible you wouldn't be able to stop. And having dealt with a psychotic break in two family members, insanity is a very, very real thing and it can cause people to do things they would never do otherwise. I never thought my conservative, fundamentalist Christian MIL would take the police on a 140 mph car chase, but she did just that.
Posted by DramaGeek[/QUOTE]

And I'm sorry that she did that. But that's not God's fault. She made her choice. God didn't make it for her.

ETA: My point is that just because a person in my family chose to become an alcoholic doesn't mean that I am an alcoholic. I wasn't born that way and neither were they. That was their choice, not mine. And that is the same for people who chose to be gay. I don't feel like geneics play a role in that kind of stuff. Sure, it plays a role in heart desease and stuff like that, but "gay" isn't a desease. It's a choice that wasn't made by God. If people were born that way, he wouldn't have destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. The Bible teaches us that God created man in His image...God is not gay. So that's my point of why people are NOT born that way...

GunzNRoses213 · June 2012

But arent they technically not fighting it by giving into the sin ? They are no longer fighting against it after they give in ... They gave into the sin ...

The only way they would fight now is to fight OUT of it it ... And most people dont.

ochemjenn · June 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_christian-weddings_gay-marriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:464687ae-7bc1-4360-9aea-999e11f1e1adDiscussion:4ecaee0f-373a-4133-8b57-0e8dc6579b65Post:5e9bc8c4-ce41-4a8e-9afb-d2abc6023e7d">Re: 'Gay Marriage'</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: 'Gay Marriage' : <strong>And I'm sorry that she did that. But that's not God's fault. She made her choice. </strong>God didn't make it for her. ETA: My point is that just because a person in my family chose to become an alcoholic doesn't mean that I am an alcoholic. I wasn't born that way and neither were they. That was their choice, not mine. And that is the same for people who chose to be gay. I don't feel like geneics play a role in that kind of stuff. Sure, it plays a role in heart desease and stuff like that, but "gay" isn't a desease. It's a choice that wasn't made by God. If people were born that way, he wouldn't have destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. The Bible teaches us that God created man in His image...God is not gay. So that's my point of why people are NOT born that way...
Posted by SugarFoote[/QUOTE]

Doing something because of mental illness is no more her fault or decision than someone puking because of a GI bug.

'Gay Marriage'

Re: 'Gay Marriage'

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