Are condo fees a waste of money?

shoegal715 · November 2010

What do you think?

We bought a $350,000 3 bedroom condo. We pay $425 a month for: snow removal, grass cutting and lawn maintenance, swimming pool, fitness centre, hot tub, sauna, lockers, parking, party room, library and water.

I love our place, but I'm starting to think we should move soon, as we will end up spend over $4,000 a year in fees. Another part of me says it's worth it because we will use and enjoy the amenities.

I don't know. I'm conflicted. What do you think?

sep72fendr · November 2010

I have a hard time paying 700 a month for rent without feeling like I'm being screwed out of money. I can't imagine 450 a month just for fees, not to mention mortgage or rent or whatever it is that you pay for a condo.

Then again, I'm a 23 year old student en route to my masters and it's understandable that I should be broke.

IMO- I think you should get out. Fees have to be less elsewhere.

LesPaul · November 2010

The only one of those services I pay for is fitness - $35 a month. Granted, some of the others cost time and not money, but $425 sounds awfully steep. Is it possible to sell and not lose a bundle on the condo itself?

MrsMack10612 · November 2010

We pay about $350 for ours and get a lot less for our money than you do.

It sounds like a lot but, think about how much you would have to pay for some of those things outside of the condo fee:

If you had a pool - would maintence cost more? If you had a separate gym membership? All those different things.

If you consider it that way - that you might be paying for some of it anyway - you may find it costs the same or more outside the condo; but you have the added benefit that you don't actually have to do the work - no snow shoveling, no pool skimming, no grass mowing.

Julz629 · November 2010

At my old condo, I paid $250 for yard work, snow removal, outside building maintenance (painting, power washing, etc.), pool, billiards room, workout room, and bathrooms at the clubhouse. There was a party room, but we had to pay an additional fee to use it. It is also worth noting the condo was only $160K, so I am not sure if the fees are related to the condo cost.

Could you even sell your condo in the market? It seems like a bit of a rash decision to sell just over these fees. Also, wasn't the monthly fee disclosed upfront when you bought the place?

I went to our monthly meetings to discuss the homeowners association budget, fees, etc. It helped me to understand where all this money went, why the costs were so high, etc. Maybe going to one of these meetings will shed some light?

shaydenise · November 2010

Good Lord. I'm always shocked when I hear about others HOA and Condo Association dues. Our HOA dues are only $130 a YEAR. I get that condo would be more because you have more shared space and what not, but I think what you guy are paying is a lot.

MattsPenguin · November 2010

Well if you lived in a single family house:

snow removal, lawn maintenance, etc. done by you or pay someone
swimming pool join a gym or club
fitness centre, hot tub, sauna, lockers join a gym ($20-$50/month)
parking in Boston, you can pay $150-$200/month for a single parking space

I guess the other question would be: do you use all of the ammenities (i.e. gym, pool, party room)?

It is a lot of money, but price it out if you lived in your own house.

mica178 · November 2010

I believe a real estate investor told me that for every $100/month you spend on condo fees (non-tax deductible), you could have gotten $15k more house, but do you want to do all that maintenance? And all the amenities are nice, if you will use them.

mandysmear · November 2010

if you use all those ammenities it's probably more t han worth it. a gym membership is what? 50-100 a month. you don't have to shovel or mow the lawn which is an awesome convenience. library and swimming pool? dude that's pretty awesome.

if that $400 makes a difference in your bank account then i would say that maybe you should look at getting out of a condo.

mandysmear · November 2010

oh and i used to pay $100 for a parking stall. so i think your fees are so worth it. is that 2 parking stalls? guest parking as well?

looks like a good deal to me.

SarahPLiz · November 2010

You get a crapload of stuff for your fees. Enjoy the convenience!

We get lawn and pool maintenance for $227/month.

shoegal715 · November 2010

It's a tough call. Yes we CAN afford the fees, but are the amenities too much luxury for us? Should we be putting that into savings? Or an RESP for once we have kids?

We're in a "luxury" building 5 minutes from both of our offices, and sometimes I think we should buy a townhouse for the same price - although it won't be as nice or in the same great location.

Decisions decisions.

shoegal715 · November 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_condo-fees-waste-of-money?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fb82207b-7e2d-4a4c-b9db-d510aa6929cePost:d234d94b-6196-4063-821b-0121fefd2d97">Re: Are condo fees a waste of money?</a>:
[QUOTE]oh and i used to pay $100 for a parking stall. so i think your fees are so worth it. is that 2 parking stalls? guest parking as well? looks like a good deal to me.
Posted by mandysmear[/QUOTE]

<div>Yes, 2 parking spots underground, and lots of visitors.</div><div>
</div><div>Oh, also forgot to mention, there is a 24/7 security guard who visitors have to check in with when they drive into the complex.</div>

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · November 2010

That seems like a lot of ammenities. And you get at least some utilities (water). It's a bit high (I'd expect $200-$300), but like I said, a lot of ammenities.

Have they been raising them on you? Is that why you're upset? Are there laws about how much per year they can raise the rates?

shoegal715 · November 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_condo-fees-waste-of-money?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fb82207b-7e2d-4a4c-b9db-d510aa6929cePost:4ff3b2ab-128f-4f4d-8651-4a4ac2ff7ec4">Re: Are condo fees a waste of money?</a>:
[QUOTE]That seems like a lot of ammenities. And you get at least some utilities (water). It's a bit high (I'd expect $200-$300), but like I said, a lot of ammenities. <strong>Have they been raising them on you?</strong> <strong>Is that why you're upset? Are there laws about how much per year they can raise the rates?</strong><div>Posted by msmerymac[/QUOTE]</div><div>
</div><div>My dad was the one who brought it up. He thinks we're completely crazy for spending so much on fees. He also thinks we're nuts because we don't want / need a backyard or a 2 storey townhouse. </div><div>
</div><div>They raise steadily every year and we haven't actually moved in yet, but next year they're be around $10 - $17 more a month.
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</div><div>

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squirrly · November 2010

My condo has a $135/month fee. It covers:

snow removal, grass cutting and lawn maintenance, swimming pool, small fitness centre, trash pickup, paving & road maintenance within the complex, street lights within the complex, trees & shrubbery.

The fee is going up a bit next year and will cover property insurance for the physical dwelling as well (currently we each maintain our own policy). But, my insurance bill will go down, so that's a balanced offset.

$135 a month is tolerable, to me. $400 something would not be, for what it covers. If it included a cleaning service, hanging holiday decorations, etc., then MAYBE.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · November 2010

I'm assuming you bought a condo because you aren't really DIYers. My parents were big on doing all their own lawn maintainance, house repairs, etc, etc. Personally, if I lived in a detached house, I'd still be hiring people to mow the lawn and plow the driveway. So if you can afford it and it's worth it to you, don't mind what your dad thinks. It's not his choice to live in a condo with fees.

MrsMack10612 · November 2010

I think you're getting a lot of bang for your buck - especially if you take advantage of the amenities. For me, it would almost be worth it for the underground parking and the security gate.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · November 2010

WAIT - you're in Canada. FYI, $425 Canadian is a bit less American, usually. So it's equivalent to like $300-$375 or so here, depending on the month or day.

bellebride116 · November 2010

We are in a similar situation... we have the mortgage from our condo and then the fee's. We have no common grounds and our fee's are almost $300 a month {snow removal, garbage}... I have THE hardest time writing my check to them each month!!!

doctabroccoli · November 2010

We live in a townhome and pay $65/month just for landscaping maintenance in the summer (crappy that I go back and do additional work on myself) and snow removal in the winter. I still feel like that's a ripoff for the small amount of area there is! You sound like you are getting a lot for your money - are you happy with the services? Are the gym and pool nice? Is everything maintained well? If you're happy with the outcome of your expenditure, then maybe it's not so bad. If you're extremely unhappy with the outcome of your expenditure (like me), then maybe there are questions to be raised.

FutureMrsTR · November 2010

Those condo fees sound about average from what I see on Property Virgins. That's the extent of my knowledge.

lyndausvi · November 2010

I live in a condo and pay $500-520 a month.

That includes $200 per month for property/hurricane/flood insurance (which I would have to pay for a SF home), $100-120 for water (water is expensive here, but again may have to pay in a SF home).

The rest includes 24/7 security, lawn care, 2 pools, office overhead (wages and benefits for the staff, power for the office, etc), maintenance for common things like lights/windows, reserve fund for capital improvements and our high deductibles.

Basically for us the $200 (500 minus the insurance and water part) is worth it.

eta - add garbage removal to that.

I would check with your HOA to see where the fees are going and what the operating costs are. Pools and security can be expensive. There are a lot of little costs that add up. Also if there are not a lot of houses in the HOA that means you end up paying a bigger percentage than if there were more houses in the HOA.

salt78 · November 2010

$425/mo sounds high to me. I balked at the $300/mo fees at the last place we looked at.

angiebear11 · November 2010

It seems like it's worth in your case because of the amenities you get. My mother pays about $900/month just for maintenance (no amenities) and that to me is soo beyond not worth it.

DodgersBride · November 2010

Our fees are about $300 a month. All we get is basic maintence of the courtyard and under ground parking garage.I assume it covers the security guards as well. It also covers the gym and rec room. You have to pay additional fees to use the rec room for parties.

So I think for what you are paying and what you are getting it is worth it.

[Deleted User] · November 2010

I'm so glad I read this because it just occurred to me, with my wedding less than one month away, I completely forgot to pay my condo fees. I just wrote the check, but as for your situation, it doesn't sound like you're overpaying for what you're getting. The one item I don't think anyone else mentioned is your HOA fees also include homeowner's insurance, which on a private home is fairly substantial. With a condo, the homeowners insurance you pay is more like renter's insurance since it covers only the contents of your condo, protects you should someone be injured in your condo and covers you if your water heater, dishwasher or washing machine leaks and damages another unit (actually happend, but I was a renter at the time), but the condo association pays the insurance to protect you (well actually your mortgage lender) should the building burn down or should someone be injured on the property and this insurance is pricey.

I would strongly recommend attending the association meetings, and I will warn you, if you do, you will probably be elected to the board very soon because very few people bother to show up for these meetings, which determine how your HOA fees are spent.

You also want the condo association to have a healthy reserve. This protects you from special assessments. I got one less than a year after I bought my condo while I was still new homeowner poor. Talk about ugly surprises. A healthy reserve also makes your condo more marketable when you do decide to sell. I actually got a very good deal on my condo when I bought partially because this assessment was in the offing, and the seller and I both suspected it was coming even though it wasn't directly mentioned during the negotiations.

But as long as you can afford the fees, enjoy and know that you are building up equity while living in a luxury building. All in all, not a bad life!!

noodle_oo · November 2010

I think that is reasonable for what you are getting for it. However, if you buy your own home, you have a choice as to whether or not to pay for those luxuries. If you are in a condo, you have no choice and you pay it whether you use it or not. I think you sound like you have a nice situation: you use the amenities and it is very close to your work. Hoewver, I would think that is a good situation for short term. Long term, I'd prefer to be in a house.

And don't forget: a townhouse generally has HOA fees as well, often times not much less than a condo. That's why we looked only at single family houses. We wanted to have complete control over when we replace the roof, etc, etc.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · November 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_condo-fees-waste-of-money?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:fb82207b-7e2d-4a4c-b9db-d510aa6929cePost:9ebf0e0d-9699-4fd6-81e9-acec52c5b5f3">Re: Are condo fees a waste of money?</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm so glad I read this because it just occurred to me, with my wedding less than one month away, I completely forgot to pay my condo fees. I just wrote the check, but as for your situation, it doesn't sound like you're overpaying for what you're getting. The one item I don't think anyone else mentioned is your HOA fees also include homeowner's insurance, which on a private home is fairly substantial. With a condo, the homeowners insurance you pay is more like renter's insurance since it covers only the contents of your condo, protects you should someone be injured in your condo and covers you if your water heater, dishwasher or washing machine leaks and damages another unit (actually happend, but I was a renter at the time), but the condo association pays the insurance to protect you (well actually your mortgage lender) should the building burn down or should someone be injured on the property and this insurance is pricey. <strong> I would strongly recommend attending the association meetings, and I will warn you, if you do, you will probably be elected to the board very soon because very few people bother to show up for these meetings, which determine how your HOA fees are spent.</strong> You also want the condo association to have a healthy reserve. This protects you from special assessments. I got one less than a year after I bought my condo while I was still new homeowner poor. Talk about ugly surprises. A healthy reserve also makes your condo more marketable when you do decide to sell. I actually got a very good deal on my condo when I bought partially because this assessment was in the offing, and the seller and I both suspected it was coming even though it wasn't directly mentioned during the negotiations. But as long as you can afford the fees, enjoy and know that you are building up equity while living in a luxury building. All in all, not a bad life!!
Posted by Alexmom2[/QUOTE]

My dad is the president of his HOA. He lives in a lake shore community with about 30 houses, but only about 5 people live there year-round, including him, so there really aren't a lot of options. Also, I'm pretty sure they're big/only projects are when to re-do the road and buying the land behind them so that they can build garages and keep other people from building behind them.

notquiteblushing · November 2010

Ha, our property is worth less than yours, we don't have a pool, and we pay the same fees.

In the end I think it's mostly "worth it" because our fees include heat meaning we can use as much heat as we want, water, some insurance, and trash. A lot of repairs are also covered.

I figure if we had a SFH I would easily spend $150 a month on heat in the colder months and who knows what on repairs, etc.

So yes condo fees can be annoying but I don't think they neccesarily wasteful.

smokeybailey · November 2010

My HOA is $543/month and includes:
ALL Water, trash and recycling
Community electricity
Community gas
Onsite manager
Handyman
Janitorial
Landscaping
Legal
fountain upkeep
parking garage upkeep
general upkeep
Pest Control
Elevator maintenance and contracts
Gym maintenance and contracts
Cable for gym and club room
Maintenance contracts for lighting, alarms, fans (in garage), sump pumps, fountain pumps, etc.
Window washing twice a year (windows that homeowners can't reach)
Light bulb replacement, tile replacement, graffiti abatement, vandalism issues
Reserve funding

I could go on and on. If you are truly concerned about what you are "getting" for the money, ask for your budget to see where all the money goes. My FI is the treasurer for our HOA and believe me, it's expensive to keep a large building(s) running.

Are condo fees a waste of money?

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