Turned off to Catholic Wedding

californialuv.619 · February 2010

I am getting married in a Parish I am not a member of. I called several churches and got turned down until I found the Parish I am getting married at now. I was upset at first. I am a Catholic and that should be acknowledged no matter what Parish I walk into and should be able to have the ceremony of marriage performed no matter where I live.

At first I was super excited to have a traditional Catholic wedding. I have been reading everyone's posts and it seems like a lot of hoops to jump through. I met my Deacon the other day and he was so nice. He told me he would interview my fiance and I separately. I didn't think anything of it, and then I was reading posts that said it's because they want to see if anyone is lying. I don't understand that. I spoke with my fiance tonight and he said he wants whatever I want. I know I want the church wedding, but not if I'm going to be treated like a criminal. This isn't a question of my faith, there is no uncertainty in my mind or heart, just the bureacracy is scaring me away.

Any words of encouragement? Has anyone felt this way?

akg0053 · February 2010

I converted and was confirmed back in April of 2007. When I went through RCIA, I was excited because I had finally found a path back to God, and it seemed like such a perfect fit. Well, the one thing my RCIA program left out was how intense the marriage prep stuff is.

I haven't been to that many Catholic weddings, and so when FI (who is a cradle Catholic) and I decided to get married, we sat down and talked about some ideas. He told me that my idea of an outdoor wedding in the fall was a no go. When we talked about music possibilities, he (as well as our priest at the time) said most of that was a no go. When I didn't want to walk down the aisle with my fiance, or when I wanted to wear a strapless gown, or when I wanted to put flowers in the church and kept getting told no, I then asked what we COULD have.

While I understand the reasons why the church does the things they do and why, it does tend to be a bit... much... to me at times. For example, what is really the big deal if I walk down the aisle alone? And, yes, I understand that each parish does things their own way and so not all of these rules are followed, but ours seems like they do follow a lot of these rules.

It gets overwhelming from time to time trying to figure out the best way to not have such a cookie-cutter ceremony, but staying within the parameters set by the church.

But, when I think about not getting married in the church, my heart breaks. I know that there will probably be some sorts of things the deacon wants to interview us about separately from each other, and that's ok with me. No, it's not ideal, but to us, getting married in the church far outweighs that aspect (now, our parish never made a big deal about it and didn't call us liars or anything). I guess there are certain things you have to do.

I think it's normal for people to feel some frustration with the marriage prep process. Just pray about it, and ask God for strength and patience. You will get through the rough patches.

Calypso1977 · February 2010

its not to see if you are lying. Its to see if you are entering marriage freely and of your own will.

they do put you through a thorough process, but that is for two reasons. 1, its a sacrament, and 2, its forever. they just want to make sure things are set adn legit before the big day.

the membership thing comes into play as many folks just show up at Church when they need a sacrament and never attend otherwise. many priests are wary about this. they like to make sure you live and practice your faith before they give you the sacrament. if you marry at a parish other than your own, the priest does not know you, and therefore doesnt know your intentions.

hang in there, it will all be worth it in the end.

MissAngel · February 2010

I agree with Calypso. I was a wedding facilitator for a parish before I got engaged and did not have any idea there were so many requirements. But now that I am engaged and are going through the process it does make sense to me. Catholics believe marriage to be a serious thing and should not be entered into lightly... Like Calypso said... it's a sacrament... and it's forever...

Thinking about it in the long run, it only takes a few extra days and some adjustments for a lifelong journey. The Deacon we talked with explained the part about being interviewed separately. When I spoke with him alone, it was more personal and if there was anything I wanted him to know that my fiance doesn't know... of course there wasn't, but I can see how interviewing someone separately would give them the opportunity to speak up if necessary without having the other person present... like counseling. We are also required to do NFP and an Engaged Encounter Weekend. But for me it isn't really that big of a deal to spend 1 weekend in an engaged encounter weekend and 3 Sundays for NFP to help us prepare ourselves for a lifelong marriage...

As far as other requirements, it all goes back to what marriage means in the Catholic Church. Walking in together emphasizes that the marriage and this union is what is important, not just one person... Although my parish lets me walk up alone, they still need to approve my dress... Each parish is different.

For music... if you don't like the traditional music, you can always look on ocp.org and there are many more options... all Catholic music...

It's just how you want to perceive it. Is it about you as an individual on this one day? Or is it about the first day of forever?

boogerbearoriginal · February 2010

Ditto Calypso.

I think if everyone treated marriage as seriously as the church does there'd be less divorces (because less people would get married). I don't think they are treating you like a criminal - its actually for your own protection to ensure your FI (or parents or whomever) isn't forcing you to get married.

People sometimes get frustrated with what seems like a bunch of rules because they don't realize there is a purpose to it. Talk with your Priest/Deacon about any concerns you have - he should be able to explain not only what's required but why.

kmt_cas · February 2010

I think it has a lot to do with the priest at your church. I'm not sure if you were talking about my previous post, I spoke fairly extensively about our experience that wasn't so good, but I can say, with everything that we've gone through it's still worthwhile and something I'm happy about. Although I'll admit sometimes I think it would be a lot easier to have a wedding outside of the church, but I think this process has not only brought FI and I closer together but really made things more meaningful for the both of us. We have learned that we can really work together against adversity. How silly is that to say when talking about a priest?! Lol.

Hang in there. If your priest says things like "I want to make sure you aren't lying" like ours did, you have to think that they are just saying things flippantly and not thinking about the consequences of their words. While that might be strange from our POV because they are a priest and we think of them as being "perfect" in a sense, they are only human and make mistakes.

It's also really important to make sure that you don't take the sentiments that you read about on these boards and bring those emotions into your meetings. Your experience is unique and vastly different than anyone else's on here. So you can't assume that everyone's experience is the same across the board. That will just make the experience a negative one.

We were lucky to have had a wonderful experience at pre-cana - I hold onto those memories when I have concerns about our priest. And even through all this silliness that I've experienced, I feel much more connected to my faith than ever before

mbcdefg · February 2010

The reason why there are "hoops" and questions and a long process is so that they can be sure that you truly want the sacrament.

Anyone can run off to Vegas and get married, because it's easy. That's why so many people do it and regret it aftterward. Look at Britney Spears, who said she did it because she was "bored." If she had to apply for a marriage in the same way that the Catholic Church makes you, she would've been out the door in five minutes. Because it actually requires effort, preparation and thought.

If you really want something in life, you need to be willing to work for it. So that's why they want to ensure that the people applying for a Catholic wedding are really interesting ni a Catholic MARRIAGE, not just a pretty and "traditional wedding" in a church that they'll never step foot in after their wedding.

Would you expect people to be admitted to a sorority if they walked in and said, "I don't want to go through the pledging process or pay my dues or be involved in any activities ... just give me my lettered sweatshirt so I can wear it around campus and look cool"? No, right? Same deal here. They're not accusing you of lying ... they want to ensure that you and your FI are on the same page about what you want. If you're in separate rooms and getting separate questions, that means you have to be 100% honest and you can't look to each other for cues or to complete your sentences.

amarch · February 2010

I also agree with pps. Everyone is questioned separately from their fiance just to make sure they are not being forced into anything, and it only took a few minutes anyway (at least in my case). I felt totally respected the whole time - I didn't feel like a potential "liar" in the Priest's eyes.

I know it can be annoying (scheduling- and time-wise) to fulfill all the requirements sometimes, but to me it's totally worth it. I actually like it better this way, because marriage is really important, and it's nice that the Church sees it that way too. They want you to be prepared, and to understand exactly what getting married in the Church means. I see that as a good thing - they wouldn't have all those requirements in the first place if they didn't respect marriage and all of our relationships so much.

Theresa626 · February 2010

I totally feel how you feel. I really don't want you to not have a Catholic Mass, all I can say is I'm right there with you in how you feel. I've felt like a criminal and like some sort of horrible person throughout planning the entire wedding. The whole process with the church has had so many hoops to jump through and they constantly make me feel like anything I would want is stupid or unnecessary.

I could go on a really long rant about it. I'm so tired of the asking for money and making you donate on the envelope system. It irritates me that they make you feel like a crappy person for not wanting to get married in your home parish or for not donating every week on the envelope system. God forbid you'd like to be more comfortable to your guests and get married in a location that is more convenient for them to stay. And then of course, there's the gap and being inconvenient to them in that respect too. And all the hoops to jump through about having music that's not by the music minister and then how they take forever to respond to you, charge you a ridiculous sum of money and then tell you can't do basically anything at all that you want to do. I don't think the Catholic church actually wants anyone to get married in the church because they want to charge you sooo much money that you just go get married in a hotel instead so you pay the same amount with less rules. One girl I know is getting charged 3,000$ just to have her wedding in the Catholic church. SHe could get married at a really expensive hotel for that amount and all that includes is use of the building for an hour, the people involved in running the mass and the music. She also has to donate every month too and we both had to pay the 350$ for the retreat. The priest is getting 200$ just to say mass. I wish I got 600$ every weekend for 3-5 hours of work. The music minister is getting 200$ and he told me he won't even come to my wedding. I've been so turned off to Catholicism after trying to get married in the church. I've been catholic my whole life too and always went to church but i feel like none of that matters because I didn't donate on the envelope system on a regular basis.

I try to remember that the Catholics I meet are very good people and I like being around them The priests are nice and helpful good people. I don't know... I guess the people are good but the money system is corrupt in my opinion.

You should have a catholic wedding because you'll probably feel guilty if you don't have one. I know I'd feel guilty. I guess that's the catholic church working well.

Calypso1977 · February 2010

theresa, the more i think about it, i wonder if you should write to your diocese regarding this parish. the problems you always speak of, specifically the donating only on the envelope system, seem out of whack and i never hear others say this is required at their churches.

californialuv.619 · February 2010

Hey Ladies,

Thank you for all the posts, I have truly enjoyed reading them. I too, believe it is all worth it in the end. Thank goodness there are posts we can write on, because it's soooo helpful to talk with others that are going through the same experiences.

GulfCoaster · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_turned-off-catholic-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:80a1ef8b-d16d-42e7-b34b-ec73c1441551Post:ee9e2fa8-b3b6-4a4a-aa15-a42dbd9a50ce">Re: Turned off to Catholic Wedding</a>:
[QUOTE]theresa, the more i think about it, i wonder if you should write to your diocese regarding this parish. the problems you always speak of, specifically the donating only on the envelope system, seem out of whack and i never hear others say this is required at their churches.
Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]

Theresa, I don't know (or remember) all of your story, but things do seem kind of odd at your parish. Are the envelopes a big deal because you're not a registered parishioner (and hence don't have envelopes)? Or for some other reason?

I was a registered parishioner at my church and so I had the little offertory envelopes for parishioners. But I often was only a once-a-month donater... I was at Mass weekly and sang in the choir, but I was a student when we got married and I tended to give offering only at the beginning of the month (when I got my monthly financial aid distributions). If the parish had required me to donate a specific amount in my envelopes, I would have been out of luck (since I was a student with very little money), and if they had required me to use my envelopes weekly, they would have ended up with an envelope with just a quarter in it at the end of the month, when cash was running short for me. :)

OP, sorry to digress a little from your thread. As others have said, the reason for the separate interviews is to make sure that you and your FI are both entering into marriage freely and of your own volition. In order for a marriage to be sacramentally valid, the spouses' consent must be freely given -- e.g., no one can be pressuring you, threatening you, etc. -- and so the Church tries to verify at the outset that you are in fact freely consenting. It's not because the Church is assuming you are a criminal. We did separate interviews, but it was just a few questions that lasted maybe 3 minutes, very simple. There are requirements to get married in the Church, but it is a sacrament and the Church wants to make sure that couples who are getting married take it seriously. I think it's worth it.

Good luck.

Theresa626 · February 2010

Gulf Coaster, they don't require a specific amount but it has to be after you've registered as a parishioner and it has to be in the envelope, not cash in the basket. The donations I made before I was a parishioner were recorded but didn't count. The church we are doing pre-cana with we specifically chose because they didn't have the donation requirement and we loved the priest but they also don't actually have a church. They're building it. So, we had to go looking for a church to let us have our ceremony in. We called up a ton of churches and all of them had the same donation requirement in order to get a date there. So, unfortunately, charging people a lot of money is pretty standard around here.

They tell you have to donate on the envelope because it is the only way they can prove that you are a registered parishioner that goes to mass on a regular basis.......but.... it's ok if you mail the envelope in. But, if you put money in the basket at church with no envelope, it doesn't count.

akg0053 · February 2010

It'll be ok. Like I said, it can be a little intense at times, but it is very worth it in the end

) Also, you're right, it does help to talk out frustrations lol.

MissAngel · February 2010

Theresa, I too am sorry that you have to go through all of this, but it is not Catholicism as a whole.. it just seems like your diocese has stricter rules. I do not use the envelope system at my parish, but we do have e-giving at the beginning of the month... One day when I have children, hopefully this parish is still around so I can send my kids to school there and with a record of my givings, I would qualify for financial aid for my children since parishioners have first priority on enrollment and this is a popular school. There is also the matter of adding it to your tax return if you are eligible. So there are a lot of reasons why a parish needs to keep up with you on this regard, its not solely to make your life harder to make people getting married in the church have to jump through additional hoops. Also, it is a non-profit organization and in order for operating expenses (just to turn on the heater and lighting for several hours before and after your wedding so that is it comfortable for the guests... such as heating/cooling) the expenses go above the $200 that is normally charged... In addition, most people that work in a parish are volunteers. There are generally few paid personnel, but they have multiple jobs or only work a few days a week and hence the getting back to you issue... they aren't there to make money so it would only make sense to say that a hotel would get back to you faster because this is how they make money.

As far as going to church... since there are generally too many people in one parish for any priest to remember everyone, it is a requirement in order to receive a sacrament that you are regular practicing catholic... it was one of the questions the deacon asked during our pre-cana work. Also, my experience with the separate interviews was like pp as well... it only lasted all of 3 minutes or less. And it was just to verify that yes, I am entering into this of my own free will and not because anyone (him, his parents, or anyone else) has pressured us... I did feel more comfortable to tell him anything I was struggling with more freely than when FI was there... although there was nothing to tell, but the general welcome feeling was there.

You could also get married in a parish that your parents or relatives have contributed to, not necessarily one that you are registered at. When I was calling around, I checked out those options as well. A parish my aunt was a regular at (and no one that stood out) would let me get married there without any additional hoops or money because she could vouch for me...

There are reasons for how things are run, and if you feel it's worth it in the end than these hoops aren't really a big deal... also, it's a matter of perspective... I would jump through many more hoops because having a Catholic means that much to me...

JMU_Bride09 · February 2010

When FH and I went through the individual interviews, it was very simple and easy. Probably took about five minutes each. Our priest basically just asked us individually if we fully intended to marry the other and to dedicate ourselves to them for our entire lives. It's just to be sure that you are marrying the other person of your own free will. The Church takes the Sacrement of Marriage very seriously. I don't know how your priest is approaching this interview, but it shouldn't be like a criminal investigation.

emmie2003 · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_turned-off-catholic-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:80a1ef8b-d16d-42e7-b34b-ec73c1441551Post:2eeb0abc-be01-4518-ab8a-a179e4979e32">Re: Turned off to Catholic Wedding</a>:
[QUOTE]its not to see if you are lying. Its to see if you are entering marriage freely and of your own will. they do put you through a thorough process, but that is for two reasons. 1, its a sacrament, and 2, its forever. they just want to make sure things are set adn legit before the big day. the membership thing comes into play as many folks just show up at Church when they need a sacrament and never attend otherwise. many priests are wary about this. they like to make sure you live and practice your faith before they give you the sacrament. if you marry at a parish other than your own, the priest does not know you, and therefore doesnt know your intentions. hang in there, it will all be worth it in the end.
Posted by Calypso1977[/QUOTE]

She's right. And it is all worth it in the end.

Trae021 · February 2010

The church also wants to see if you are compatable. At my church you have to take a compatability test and go over it to work out any issues you might have before the wedding. My friend and her soon to be ex-husband did not have anything in common and yet they still got married, here they are 3 years later and they are getting a divorce. Marriage is something to be taken seriously I like what the Catholic Church does for their process.

kmm2150 · February 2010

I think there are two issues here: one is the "hoops" and the other is the way in which some churches present the hoops. There are admittedly a lot of steps to a Catholic wedding process, and while these are understandable it is frustrating that there are so many inconsistencies from parish to parish, and so little recognition of the fact that it's not 1652 and people don't live in the same town for their whole lives.

I think you just have to accept the hoops, but you shouldn't have to accept people being unkind or even outright rude. We had trouble not with our priests, but with the wedding coordinator, who presented every rule and policy like a Nazi guard at a POW camp, and would attack us for simple questions, and failed to give us lots of important info about getting all the requirements met - it is one thing to have a policy or a rule, but another thing to expect the worst of everyone and treat them like a criminal, or like you don't want their wedding in your church. I think, while you might want to wait till AFTER the wedding, it would not be out of line to talk to the priest and just say that he made you feel uncomfortable - it's not intended, I'm sure, and maybe if someone speaks up he'll change his ways.

Ckirwin · February 2010

i'm really saddened that people are looking at it as "jumping through hoops". i don't look at preparing for a life-long commitment as a burden. i'm getting married, which is a very serious, life-long commitment, and, let's not forget, a sacrament. i don't think answering some questions and attending some meetings is asking all that much. the world would be a different place if more people went through this process before marrying... also, i'm not sure where you read that the separate questioning has to do with determing if you're a liar, but that person was sorely misinformed. as people have said, this is for your protection.

the most important thing i can say is that every parish is different so when sharing stories, i want to make sure everyone understands that what happens at one parish is not necessarily what happens at another parish (especially when it comes to donation ruels) and therefore should not be claimed to be "Catholic" as a whole. i don't want to seem snippy about this, i just see these posts all the time and hope that we can be more understanding and less accusatory.

i've enjoyed going through the process so i hope it becomes something that you can enjoy and look forward to! GL!

kmt_cas · February 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_turned-off-catholic-wedding?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:80a1ef8b-d16d-42e7-b34b-ec73c1441551Post:6f9d3467-bf12-4d2d-b9c0-8cf73f9277b1">Re: Turned off to Catholic Wedding</a>:
[QUOTE] i'm not sure where you read that the separate questioning has to do with determing if you're a liar, but that person was sorely misinformed.
Posted by Ckirwin[/QUOTE]

<div>I understand where you're coming from. And I'm really glad that you've had a positive experience. But I think it's appropriate to mention some negative experiences. I have not been as lucky as you. I have had a priest tell me several times during our wedding meetings that I am lying to him. Was he kidding? I don't know. He if was kidding, I took his words harshly and had a really hard time swallowing what he said. Some priests are wonderful. Some are awful. We're with someone near the latter. And as you said, not everyone;s experience is the same. I was actually looking forward to the process and the steps of getting married. After our first meeting, however, all that changed and it really turned into an unhappy experience. But, like I said in my post above, it did bring FI and I closer together because we had to work with one another against our priest. Sad, but true.</div>

kmm2150 · February 2010

Ckirwin, I didn't mean to refer to actual marriage prep as "hoops," and hopefully others don't mean this either - I was more so referring to all the stuff we had to do with paperwork from multiple churches, picking music, picking readings, standing up vs. sitting down that seemed to have to go through a wedding coordinator, music director, and two priests for every little thing - and was not clearly explained up front; only when we said "can we/should we do this" did everything become a huge issue and inconvenience for people at the church, whereas I felt like if they just spelled everything out from the beginning - what has to be done and when, what's allowed, what isn't, in a pleasant and non-combative manner, things would've been so much better. The actual pre-marital preparation was easy as pie for us and not really a problem - it was having to get 3 people's permission to blow my nose that was a pain! And this seems to be a common problem for people - parishes have inconsistent and unwritten rules for every aspect of the wedding process, and it makes it really hard on couples, especially if one or both of them didn't grow up in that parish.

kindspiel14 · March 2010

I'd just like to throw out another positive experience out there! My fiance and I are currently in the middle of the prep process, and the priest we're working with is fantastic. My fiance isn't Catholic (or American, for that matter) so there are a few more things for us to do than normal, but the way it was explained was really helpful. Our priest pointed out that the interview/paper declaration of freedom to marry was developed waaaaaay long ago, when girls were often forced to marry men they didn't love for family benefit. Even though it's outdated (obviously) the idea of both parties being free and not pressured is there with good intention. No one's a criminal. :-) Like others have said, the church takes marriage very seriously--it isn't about the one-day wedding, it's about the lifetime to follow. :_)

I have also had trouble with the finding-a-church part. I'm technically registered (and most active still) at my parents'/childhood church, but I initially wanted to get married at the church my family converted in when I was young. I was shot down pretty quickly about that one. In the end, though, I guess it makes sense to want to keep track of things. We're doing our marriage prep where we live, and still trying to work out the ceremony location (probably in my home town). Here's hoping it works out soon!

emisi · March 2010

I've never seen the bride and groom walk together down the aisle, and my entire (very large) family is Catholic. As for not wearing a strapless dress - if you want one, just wear a bolero or a shawl. You're just supposed to have your shoulders covered. The outdoor wedding I understand - as a Catholic, the wedding has to be in a consecrated house of God. I've also never heard of no flowers allowed - we were told flowers are fine, you just have to leave them there for the church to enjoy when the wedding is over. You must have a very conservative priest.

As for the envelope system - I always understood it as a way to record your donations so they can send you a tax form at the end of the year so you can get a tax break.

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