Catholic Weddings

Catholic wedding, but non-catholic bride: Converting JUST for the wedding/marriage?

No flames.  Please.

I take religion very seriously, so this is something that I am kind of torn on.

BF and I (we're not engaged yet, but our conversations are along the lines of "when we're married...") were talking last night, and he paused and kind of laughed and then said, "So.. are you okay with it being a Catholic wedding?" I was taken aback.  I was raised completely LDS,  but have since "left the church,"  and don't follow any religion.  I believe several different things, and have a respect for all faiths, but lack of interest in any/all "religion"  (the organization of them).  Since this change, I've always envisioned a non-religious wedding for myself, if I chose to remarry (married in 03, divorced in early 09)...  OR at least some non-denominational ceremony. 

BUT it's actually really important to him.  He attends casually, so is not "hard-core", but he does believe a lot of it, and his family are all very Catholic, some more hardcore than others, and his dad is a Deacon.  He is very serious about really wanting a Catholic ceremony.  When we talked about it, he said that all of his in-laws have converted for his siblings for their weddings, since it didn't really matter to them.  He knows how I feel about religion, and said that I wouldn't be expected to practice after that..  I told him I am open to it, but with some serious reservations because of how big of a deal it will be to my family if I join a DIFFERENT church, as opposed to just not being LDS anymore.  My mom will be heartbroken.  Seriously.

BUT, I was just doing some googling and found out that after he gets his first marriage "annulled" in the eyes of the church, being divorced, if he remarries, there is something like a probationary period before he's "in good graces" again?  But that if he marries "outside the Church," that he's no longer in good graces and can't participate in Eucharist anymore.

He and I can't have a "valid" marriage because even having been baptized mormon, the CAtholic church (decided in 2001), does not recognize Mormon baptisms as "valid" for being a Sacrament.  We would not be able to just get a "permission" and have a Sacramental wedding/marriage unless I actually converted.

My problem is this:  I respect the faith, and I fully respect and agree to the idea of Marriage as a sacrament.  BUT, I do not want to obligate myself to any other faith, which is why I'm no longer active in the one I was raised with.

I've been trying to find a compromise, and in googling found out about alternatives that don't include having a mass-- or where they'd do a Mass, but I could just receive a blessing, not communion.  Problem is, no matter what, if we did that, and I didn't convert, he's no longer allowed to take Eucharist (maybe there are exceptions, but his dad IS a Deacon...).

So, I'm considering what this would mean for me to convert just for the sake of the marriage-- and by that, I don't just mean the ceremony itself, but for the sake of it being considered a "Sacramental Marriage".. because while I don't follow any one religion, I am very spiritually inclined.  Also because I don't want to put him in a situation where he's no longer considered "in good graces" when I currently have no tie to my previous faith.

I just don't know how I could do it.. "convert," if my heart isn't really into the religion.  Like, I don't believe all of the Catholic teachings, just like I no longer believe all of the LDS teachings.  i'm torn.  If I decided to go through with it, would a priest understand that I respect the church and would be fine having children raised in it, but that I wish to convert only for the purposes of creating/giving the "sacrament" of marriage because I believe very strongly in what marriage truly is and truly should be?  Is this enough "belief"  to be a reason to convert in order to have a sacramental marriage?

Thoughts?

Re: Catholic wedding, but non-catholic bride: Converting JUST for the wedding/marriage?

  • Riss91Riss91 member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    I don't think you are required to convert just for the marriage ceremony. Plenty of people are married in the Catholic church to a non-Catholic. I think you have to agree to raise your (future?) children Catholic.

     I'm sure others on here are more knowledgeable about the specifics than me!
  • edited December 2011
    Well, I've been googling a lot, and it looks like only HE would be required to agree to raise his child with the Catholic faith, and I would be allowed to raise mine as I'd like.

    What I'm more concerned about is the fact that if I do NOT convert, given that my prior mormon baptism isn't considered a valid "sacrament" to the Catholic church (Baptist, lutheran, or other protestant baptisms are, just not mormon), then it wouldn't be considered a "sacramental marriage."  And I'm wondering how that would affect his standing in the Church, and his ability to participate in Eucharist, etc.. 

    And it's a bigger deal because even though he's not devout, his dad is a Deacon, and it's a much bigger deal to his family.  It's a big deal to mine too (religion), but I already am not choosing to follow the Mormon faith any longer, so that wasn't going to happen either way. 
  • Riss91Riss91 member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    Oh, I see...you could have a valid marriage in the church, but to have a sacramental marriage in the church, you should be baptized.

    Hmmm...I *think* you would just need a dispensation. Your BF should discuss this with a priest. He could give you better information. It's definitely a more unique situation. Good Luck!
  • pjseabeepjseabee member
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    Don't convert if you don't plan to participate.  That's pointless.  Catholic annulments can take a long time (a year) to be approved, so get that ball rolling first because if it's not approved, all of your questions are irrelavant because he won't be able to get remarried in the Catholic church.  Go see a priest (not his dad) about your circumstances.  He's the only one who's going to be able to give you a definite answer.
  • edited December 2011
    I agree that you shouldn't convert if you don't plan on participating.

    I am confused though... you said you were married and divorced last year. If you've had a divorce- regardless of your conversion- you wouldn't be allowed to get married in the church anyway. His circumstances are different though with the annulment.

    Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
  • Riss91Riss91 member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_catholic-wedding-but-non-catholic-bride-converting-just-weddingmarriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:bfda4462-6dd8-447e-9c07-929319635489Post:e99f7db4-a251-40f3-81a1-be1d1dd2ac3b">Re: Catholic wedding, but non-catholic bride: Converting JUST for the wedding/marriage?</a>:
    [QUOTE]I agree that you shouldn't convert if you don't plan on participating. I am confused though... you said you were married and divorced last year. <strong><em>If you've had a divorce- regardless of your conversion- you wouldn't be allowed to get married in the church anyway.</em></strong> His circumstances are different though with the annulment. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
    Posted by rlb81[/QUOTE]

    I think if the non-Catholic person was married in a non-Christian ceremony, that the marriage itself wouldn't be recognized by the church in the first place....I might be confusing things though! Where are our experts?
  • edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_catholic-wedding-but-non-catholic-bride-converting-just-weddingmarriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:bfda4462-6dd8-447e-9c07-929319635489Post:947ba64b-373c-447b-9f24-5d005b203b7c">Re: Catholic wedding, but non-catholic bride: Converting JUST for the wedding/marriage?</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Catholic wedding, but non-catholic bride: Converting JUST for the wedding/marriage? : I think if the non-Catholic person was married in a non-Christian ceremony, that the marriage itself wouldn't be recognized by the church in the first place.
    Posted by Riss91[/QUOTE]
    I wasn't sure- thank you for correcting me! This makes sense but since the Catholic church frowns upon divorce, I wasn't sure what the "rules" were for those who converted.
  • edited December 2011
    You should take converting seriously, you have to be ready for it, heart and mind. I don't recommend doing it just bc. But the issue is definitely something to discuss with your future husband bc it could become a bigger problem later on if you don't take care of it now.
  • Calypso1977Calypso1977 member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its First Answer Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011

    do not convert just to marry.  you should be able to get the appropriate dispensations. 

    you would have to agree to raise children born of your marriage as Catholics.  however, this could get messy, as how do you raise your child with him catholic, but not the child you brought to your marriage?


    i hate to say this, but i will.  you are not engaged yet to this person.  i would take a really long, hard look at whether or not he is the right person for you.  it seems like you are CLEARLY on two different pages with regards to religion and the role it will play in your lives as wel as the lives of your exisiting children and any future children.  IMO, this is a recipe for disaster.

  • edited December 2011
    I also hate to say it, but I agree with what Calypso said.  From what you are describing, it does not sound like you two are going to be a religious match.  Before you do anything, I would go talk with a priest about all the ins and outs (do not discuss this with your bf's family).  You may even want to talk to a couple priests.  Once you are more educated on the subject then you can make a decision.
    My Grandparents on their wedding day.
    Image and video hosting by TinyPic
    bio
    Repeat this to your self: My Wedding Party is made of my family and friends and I should treat them as such.
  • edited December 2011
    Regarding prior marriages and annulments.  The church regards a legal marriage between 2 non-Catholics to be a natural marriage.  The church still recognizies it as a valid marriage, just not a sacramental one.  A divorce does not change this.

    Even if you were previously married to a non-Catholic, you will not be able to marry in the Catholic church unless your first marriage is annulled. 

    You can learn more here:
    http://catholicweddinghelp.com/questions/annulment.htm

    and
    http://www.americancatholic.org/Newsletters/CU/ac1002.asp
  • agapecarrieagapecarrie member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its Combo Breaker First Comment
    edited December 2011
    saraandrew is mostly right...the church regards 2 non-Catholics legal marriage valid, and if they are baptized, sacramental.

    A Catholic can marry a non-baptized person validly, it just wouldn't be sacramental. If everything is done according to the Church's rubrics and such, (including both first marriages annuled) then the Catholic may stay in the state of grace in full participation in the church.

  • mica178mica178 member
    5 Love Its First Anniversary First Comment
    edited December 2011
    Don't convert just for the sake of the ceremony.  Would his family be satisfied with a non-validated marriage that took place in the Church (no nuptial mass, but all the readings/vows)?    If you decided later on in your marriage to get baptised, you would already have an established relationship with the Church, and I'm sure the convalidation would be fairly straightforward.

    If you wanted a valid marriage in the Church, you'd still have to get your marriage nullified, even if it was civil only.  As you weren't Catholic when the first marriage occured, it'd probably be a faster process than your fiance's.  The longest nullifications occur when the marriage occured within the Catholic church and when there are children involved, so he had better get on that ball quickly.
  • agapecarrieagapecarrie member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its Combo Breaker First Comment
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_catholic-wedding-but-non-catholic-bride-converting-just-weddingmarriage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:bfda4462-6dd8-447e-9c07-929319635489Post:c580f70a-c67f-4eb9-800e-087084e80bc7">Re: Catholic wedding, but non-catholic bride: Converting JUST for the wedding/marriage?</a>:
    [QUOTE]Don't convert just for the sake of the ceremony.  Would his family be satisfied with a non-validated marriage that took place in the Church (no nuptial mass, but all the readings/vows)?    If you decided later on in your marriage to get baptised, you would already have an established relationship with the Church, and I'm sure the convalidation would be fairly straightforward. If you wanted a valid marriage in the Church, you'd still have to get your marriage nullified, even if it was civil only.  As you weren't Catholic when the first marriage occured, it'd probably be a faster process than your fiance's.  The longest nullifications occur when the marriage occured within the Catholic church and when there are children involved, so he had better get on that ball quickly.
    Posted by mica178[/QUOTE]

    Every marriage in the church has to be considered valid at its onset. It is impossible to have an invalid marriage in the church.(meaning without proper annulments, etc) If a non-baptized person marries a Catholic in the church, then decides to get baptized later, the marriage automatically becomes sacramental, no convalidation needed.
  • Ellie*xoEllie*xo member
    First Comment
    edited December 2011

    i'm new here but just wanted to triple what you guys said.  don't convert for sake of marriage.  i was raised catholic and have left the church, i couldn't imagine having to go back again or take on a new religion just for the sake of marrying someone. 

    this can only lead to resentment in the future if you ask something of your hubby and he says no.  you might just throw in his face "but i converted for you".  at the very least a couple should have the same views and beliefs when it comes to religion because it affects every last thing in your life.  from how you handle yourself, eachother, kids.. even tragedies and illness.  

    be true to yourself and follow that path first, everything else will fall into place.  good luck! 

  • edited December 2011
    Don't convert just for a wedding.  If you feel God calling you to convert, then by all means do so -- I am a convert, and entering the Church was one of the best decisions I ever made.  But please, don't do it just for a wedding ceremony.  You can have a wedding ceremony in a Catholic church when one partner isn't Catholic (it won't be a full Mass, but it will be a Catholic ceremony). 

    I'm going to have to second what Calypso said... Regardless of any canon law issues (which you and your boyfriend can and should talk to a priest about before pursuing marriage), it seems like you two have different ideas about the role religion will play in your lives.  You say he only goes to church a couple times a year, but I'm also seeing a lot in your post that indicates that your boyfriend really wants the Church to recognize any second marriage he undertakes and wants to be reconciled to the Church.  That indicates that to me, the Catholic Church is pretty important to him at some level.  And to you, organized religion is not important. 

    I think you need to figure out whether those differences are compatible...  Will you be OK with any future children being baptized Catholic?  (Your bf will have to make a promise to do everything in his power to raise children in the Catholic faith.)  How will your bf raise any future children Catholic, when you want your 4-year-old to be raised without any particular religion?  Are you and your bf both prepared for the tension that could come when daddy and one sibling in the home are Catholic, and mommy and the other sibling in the home are not?  (That could get quite messy.)   Etc. 

    So, I hate to say it, but I do have to agree with Calypso here that you probably need to do some serious thinking about whether the two of you are religiously compatible.
  • edited December 2011
    Don't convert just to get married in a Catholic church...You'd be doing it for all the wrong reasons, and you'd go against what you believe. You'd have to talk to a priest, but not just any priest...Talk to the one at the church where you're bf would like to get married.  Every Catholic church is different, and depending on how each priest runs the show will depict what he will require you to do.  Example:  I'm getting married in November, full Catholic mass...I've been baptized, made my holy communion, my reconciliation, and my confirmation...Next step is marriage.  My fiance on the other hand is lacking his confirmation.  We talked to our priest who will be marrying us, and he has no problem with my fiance not being confirmed.  So talk to the priest!  :)
  • Jay+MarissaJay+Marissa member
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    I think everyone else has it pretty much covered, but I just wanted to add one thing--take a closer look at the teachings you don't agree with. Many people are surprised at what they find are the true reasons behind them.
  • AnnekiteAnnekite member
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    I am in agreement that this is an issue to really think about before you ever let him put a ring on your finger.  My FI joining the faith not only for the wedding so I can have my sacramental Mass, but also because he truly wants to share the religion with me and raise our children Catholic.  It seems from what you've said, that once the two of you have children, he will want to have them baptized and raised in the faith.  Truly ask yourself if this will be an issue for you.  Conversion should be important to you alone, and not just to make the man you're marrying happy.
This discussion has been closed.
Choose Another Board
Search Boards