Catholic Weddings

Bummers

So I was running on my elliptical this morning and the lady a couple ellipticals down gets in a conversation with a friend of hers who is lifting on the machine in front of her.  Of course it was about the new mandate and whatnot.  The funny part?  He's not Catholic and he says what a bad idea it is.  She is Catholic and she thinks it's a great idea.

She was giving all the same generic entitled responses as to why everyone should have free birth control and if people find it wrong then they can choose not to use it (*sigh* so we don't use it but we still have to pay for it).  She said so many Catholic women still use birth control.  He pointed out that it's against your wedding vows to do so.  She said "I've been Catholic all my life and I've used birth control.  I still use it."  Double *sigh*.  They then talked about couples who get married in the Church but don't want kids.  She said that is their choice.  He said it's not right to go against vows like that.  I was biting my tough so hard to not say something to her, but I wasn't about to intervene on their conversation.

She went on to say how many pepole have left the church and how it needs to get with the times and whatnot.  It's so offensive to me (someone who CHOSE to come into the Catholic church in the past couple of years) to hear someone bash the religion I decided over a year and a half ago that I wanted to live the rest of my life, all while claiming she is a part of it too.  I don't get how she can identify herself as Catholic when she clearly doesn't believe it's teachings.  I know a lot of people are like that, but it's annoying to have to deal with it at the gym.

Re: Bummers

  • honestly, id rather have a smaller catholic population that truly believes and follows than to have a larger catholic population that's watered down with naysayers.  i say if people want to leave a find a religion more in line with their views, than more power to them.
  • In Response to Re: Bummers:
    honestly, id rather have a smaller catholic population that truly believes and follows than to have a larger catholic population that's watered down with naysayers.  i say if people want to leave a find a religion more in line with their views, than more power to them.
    Posted by Calypso1977
    Agreed.
  • In Response to Re: Bummers:
    honestly, id rather have a smaller catholic population that truly believes and follows than to have a larger catholic population that's watered down with naysayers.  i say if people want to leave a find a religion more in line with their views, than more power to them.
    Posted by Calypso1977
    STupid TK ate my response to this.  I'm sure it will regurgitate later, but I agree with this.
  • That sounds very frustrating. I don't get why people still want to say they are Catholic if they think the church is wrong and needs to change. I understand struggling with a teaching. That has definitely been true for me, When I started college before I met FI I was a few times a month Catholic at best. I still considered myself a Catholic because I identified with it more than any other faith, but I would have never called myself a "good" or devout Catholic or presume to speak to what Catholics should do. At that time I considered going on the pill because I thought it wasn't realistic to wait for marriage. But even then, I would never say the church is wrong. Or I'm Catholic and I believe this is okay so the church should change. It was more of an attitude of this is a great ideal but I don't think it is possible or practical for people to live up to. Now after learning more about how the pill works and the side effects I am so glad I did not start taking it. I met FI my junior year of college, thankfully he challenged some of my views and together we learned more about what the church teaches and why, and reading Theology of the Body really changed my perspective. There are still things I don't completely understand or that I struggle with, but I feel like that's how you become deeper in your faith by questioning and learning why. I am also a scientist and skeptical by nature, so I tend to identify with Saint Thomas.

    As for the not wanting children thing, it so frustrates me when people are willing to lie to get married in a Catholic church. FI has a friend who's fiancee has said she doesn't want children. They are planning on getting married in a Catholic church. This infuriates FI (it doesn't help that he generally doesn't like this girl). I tried to give her the benefit of the doubt, I told him if she just said this in the past, maybe she has changed her mind. But I don't understand why you would want to make a promise you don't intend to keep. I much rather a couple have a wedding that actually reflects their beliefs than put on a show to keep mom or dad or grandma or whoever happy.
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  • edited February 2012
    You know, I don't have a problem AT ALL with someone who identifies themselves as Catholic (because once you're baptized, you're always Catholic unless for officially denounce the faith), but admits they don't really follow the teachying.  As long as they're honest and say "I'm Catholic, but I don't follow the teachings, and that's my choice.  I repsect the Catholic Church, and they have every right to stand their ground on issues of faith and morals."  That's fine by me.  Yeah, it would be nice if Catholics didn't use BC, etc..  But what I REALLY have a problem with are "Catholics" who try to say "oh I'm Catholic, and my whole family is Catholic, and we are all pro-choice and use BC and live together before marriage, so obviously it's okay."  I think we've all run into that one...

     

  • In Response to Re: Bummers:
    honestly, id rather have a smaller catholic population that truly believes and follows than to have a larger catholic population that's watered down with naysayers.  i say if people want to leave a find a religion more in line with their views, than more power to them.
    Posted by Calypso1977
    The only issue I have with this is I feel like there is always hope for people to change. Even if someone is at mass for completely superficial reasons, I feel like there is still hope to reach them or that they will get something out of it. They just might not be there yet, we are all at different stages of our faith journey. As a "cradle" Catholic raised by a mom who was more nominally Catholic and an agnostic father who only attended mass with us on Christmas or Easter or other special events (ie my first communion/ confirmation) I feel like most of my life I have believed in a "watered down" version of Catholicism. Even though I didn't completely get it, and probably still don't, I still feel like I got something out of attending mass even if it was only occasionally. And if I or my family had been encouraged to leave all together I can't imagine where I would be now.

    As I already posted I do have a problem with people trying to change the church to fit their own desires. I agree if you feel strongly enough to try to actively change what the church teaches then maybe it is best to find a faith that better fits your strongly held views. But for people who just don't understand it all yet and don't personally think everything the church teaches is important, I feel like it is our job to encourage these people to continue to grow in their faith and part of that is welcoming them as part of our community.
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  • Chelsea,
    I would be more impressed by the not Catholic guy who "got it" than I would be disappointed in the woman.  It's been really interesting to discuss the HHS bill with some of my friends.  They are lib.er.al and have told me how angry some of my comments make them, but they're still willing to engage in civil discourse and hear out all of my (and my husband's) viewpoints.  I want them to agree with me, but I'm okay with just educating them.
    Anniversary

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  • chelseamb11chelseamb11
    2500 Comments Third Anniversary 25 Love Its Name Dropper
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    edited February 2012
    In Response to Re: Bummers:
    Chelsea, I would be more impressed by the not Catholic guy who "got it" than I would be disappointed in the woman.  It's been really interesting to discuss the HHS bill with some of my friends.  They are lib.er.al and have told me how angry some of my comments make them, but they're still willing to engage in civil discourse and hear out all of my (and my husband's) viewpoints.  I want them to agree with me, but I'm okay with just educating them.
    Posted by professorscience
    True.  I wanted to hug him, I was so happy that he "got" it without being a Catholic or even directly impacted by the mandate.  This whole mandate has me so feisty and irritated.  It is just a prime example of society nowadays.  Someone posted on FB about one of Santorum's supporters saying putting an asprin between a woman's knees is great BC (ie not having sex and keeping your legs closed) and she was just appaled that he wants to keep women in the stone age.  It's not about keeping them in the stone age.  It's about teaching them to respsect their bodies.  Heaven forbid we suggest abstinence to a woman who doesn't want to ge tpregnant...................
  • I heard about that.  On the one hand, it was definitely a poor choice of words.  There is always the issue that it's perceived that we're expecting the burden to be fully on the woman, and comments like that only sort of fuel the fire. 

    On the other hand, the commenter had good intentions.  It should be more about people striving to cultivate meaningful relationships FIRST, instead of jumping in the sack.
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  • I think (if I remember correctly,) I've heard my priest say that the Pope (Benedict?) has said that they Church WILL get smaller but stronger. :-/
    Part of me wants to be around for that...and part of me doesn't. :-(
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  • In Response to Re: Bummers:
    I think (if I remember correctly,) I've heard my priest say that the Pope (Benedict?) has said that they Church WILL get smaller but stronger. :-/ Part of me wants to be around for that...and part of me doesn't. :-(
    Posted by lalaith50
    I think it would be interesting and I am not sure I want to be around for it.

    Overall I don't get bothered by those who are still "young" in their faith journey.I know I still have a lot of journeying to do. I am fine with people who may disagree with parts of the Church but still accept that the teachings of the Church are the basis of the Church and don't try to change it. What annoys me is people who disagree and expect the Church to change, like the lady at the gym.

    And kudos to the man that understands.
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  • In Response to Re: Bummers:
    In Response to Re: Bummers : I think it would be interesting and I am not sure I want to be around for it. Overall I don't get bothered by those who are still "young" in their faith journey.I know I still have a lot of journeying to do. I am fine with people who may disagree with parts of the Church but still accept that the teachings of the Church are the basis of the Church and don't try to change it. What annoys me is people who disagree and expect the Church to change, like the lady at the gym. And kudos to the man that understands.
    Posted by Ciardasully
    I hear this all the time.  "Oh, you're so stuck in your ways.  You need to get with the times."  My mom (who is not Catholic) said it best: "God is omniscient, which means he knew that someday we would develop technology well beyond what existed in the time the Bible was written.  If he'd wanted morals to change with technology, he would've said so."
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  • I'm sure that we will all have travelling to do throughout our entire lives.

    True, there are some issues involving the Church that I personaly don't understand or agree with.  However, this is my religion and I will accept this as the Church has been around a whole lot longer than I and knows better than I.  I will obey the Church rules for this very reason.

    haha, that gives me plenty of time to keep my mouth shut and my mind open!
  • In Response to Re: Bummers:
    In Response to Re: Bummers : I hear this all the time.  "Oh, you're so stuck in your ways.  You need to get with the times."  My mom (who is not Catholic) said it best: "God is omniscient, which means he knew that someday we would develop technology well beyond what existed in the time the Bible was written.  If he'd wanted morals to change with technology, he would've said so."
    Posted by professorscience
    I hear that same arguement.  I fel that yes, we were given the ability to create technology and that is a blessing from God.  But we still need to figure out whether we use that technology for good or evil. 
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  • In Response to Re: Bummers:
    In Response to Re: Bummers : I think it would be interesting and I am not sure I want to be around for it. Overall I don't get bothered by those who are still "young" in their faith journey.I know I still have a lot of journeying to do. I am fine with people who may disagree with parts of the Church but still accept that the teachings of the Church are the basis of the Church and don't try to change it. What annoys me is people who disagree and expect the Church to change, like the lady at the gym. And kudos to the man that understands.
    Posted by Ciardasully
    Well exactly.  God has known since the beginning of time that the world would be like it is today.  If it was his will that it would be right, HE WOULD HAVE SAID SO. But he didn't. So... logically, this argument digs them into a hole.
  • As someone who is praying/struggling with a few things the Catholic church teaches, I have to say that sometimes you just have to give people the benefit of the doubt. She could have just been running on about certain things to make herself feel better. I have been praying on some thoughts I have, that the Church needs to "get with the times" or whatever, and it's just taking a long time to understand and feel ok with what prayer is giving me. We all are only human after all. 
  • In Response to Re: Bummers:
    As someone who is praying/struggling with a few things the Catholic church teaches, I have to say that sometimes you just have to give people the benefit of the doubt. She could have just been running on about certain things to make herself feel better. I have been praying on some thoughts I have, that the Church needs to "get with the times" or whatever, and it's just taking a long time to understand and feel ok with what prayer is giving me. We all are only human after all. 
    Posted by caradi
    I'm just now saying a prayer that God would bless your search! 
    I'm also curious-- in addition to praying, have you been able to find (or are you interested in any recommendations?) any Catholic books or resources that might help explain some of the questions/issues you are having?
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  • In Response to Re: Bummers:
    In Response to Re: Bummers : I'm just now saying a prayer that God would bless your search!  I'm also curious-- in addition to praying, have you been able to find (or are you interested in any recommendations?) any Catholic books or resources that might help explain some of the questions/issues you are having?
    Posted by lalaith50
    Thank you so much, that means a lot to me!

    I would love any books or resource that would help. Without getting too personal, most of my concerns/issues are understanding Church teachings on contraception (BC, IVF, the whole lot) and just how the church deals with modern social issues in the US. Does that make sense? I've spent a lot, lot of time on the Internet googling away, but I've mostly found blogs, and I'm really looking for something more concrete or written by reputable sources. I'm also very much looking forward to starting marriage prep with the Church, because our priest is very kind and knowledgeable. I know he will be helpful as well.

    Thank you :-)
  • A GREAT book to start would be Christopher West's Good News About Sex and Marriage, and/or his Theology of the Body for Beginners. (I've never read the latter, but I'm sure it's excellent.) 
    If you really want to go a deeper and a bit more "scholarly," Pope John Paul's "Love and Responsibility" is the best.
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  • In Response to Re: Bummers:
    A GREAT book to start would be Christopher West's Good News About Sex and Marriage, and/or his Theology of the Body for Beginners. (I've never read the latter, but I'm sure it's excellent.)  If you really want to go a deeper and a bit more "scholarly," Pope John Paul's "Love and Responsibility" is the best.
    Posted by lalaith50
    Thank you! I just bought Good News and Theology of the Body for Beginners from amazon - I've heard of both of those books before, so I figured now would be a great time to start reading them. I will likely read the third book as well - THANK YOU!!
  • agapecarrieagapecarrie
    Knottie Warrior 1000 Comments 100 Love Its Combo Breaker
    member
    edited February 2012
    Ditto the West books. So glad you got them. Please read with an open heart and mind. These books can change your life.

    Love and Responsibility is a harder read. I took a whole class on the book alone.. It's a philosophical side of TOB. This book is an easier read of it:

    Men, Women and the Mystery of Love: Practical Insights from John Paul II's Love and Responsibility  by Edward Sri


    Sorry about the font.


    One of the things to think about is the fact that all churches believed abc was immoral until 1930.   Did they all have it wrong for the last 2000 years? 


  • ooh, thanks for that suggestion, agape! I'm definitely going to check that out also!
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  • Tami87Tami87
    Fourth Anniversary 100 Comments 25 Love Its Name Dropper
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    edited February 2012
    Those are all great recommendations for books to look into. As I posted above I had a lot of questions about the church's teaching on sex and birth control too. FI and I got Christopher West's Theology of the Body Explained as well as the original John Paul II's Man and Woman He Created Them: A Theology of the Body. We would read a section of the original text, talk about what we thought it meant and then read from Christopher West about the same section. It is tough reading and heavy on philosophical proofs and arguments, but really that was what impressed me the most. I was blown away with how intelligent Pope John Paul II was and how well thought out the church's position is.
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  • Thanks everyone! It's great to get so many great recommendations and to hear everyone else's experiences. 

    Agape - I'm definitely coming into this research/discovery with an open heart and open mind. I've been Catholic all my life, but have recently been attending RCIA with my fiance and I feel a rededication to the faith. I'm eager to learn and praying for understanding and acceptance!
  • Thats so great.

    When I was in college, I wasn't "actively" against church teaching, just thought there were some things that were going to change eventually....but then I became a youth minister and had to start reading up and defending the faith. Every issue I studied, I learned that the church was right, it made so much sense. This happened over and over and over until I got to the point where I trust the church completely. The teachings have stood for 2000 years...and truth can't change.

    All the teachings are connected to each other in this amazing way.
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