Non-Catholic Needing Help - PreCana and Raising Children

nehgd9 · February 2013

Hi guys,

I wrote the following post on another board:
Need some help here. So I've been engaged since June 30th. Ever since the engagement his parents (mother) has been a nightmare which can happen and I get it. It sucks. I have had to put my foot down multiple times with his mom not driving a wedge between us. It's really been on thing after another. What I need help with now is this....

When we first got together he claimed he grew up Catholic, but was more agnostic. I grew up Methodist, Baptist, and really just Christian period. Since we have been engaged, he has decided to adopt the Catholic religion again. I'm not upset about this as I would rather him believe in SOMETHING than nothing at all. This is the 2nd biggest wedge between us as he keeps diving more and more into the religion and making demands of me. I have compromised my dream beach wedding for a Catholic church wedding. While I have some questionable family members that I would rather not have a chance in hell coming to my wedding (which explains why I want a destination) we were only able to compromise on a wedding 4 hours away. I cannot write my own vows in the Catholic Church...not a huge deal just one more thing. Everything is so traditional and set in stone that it's a little heartbreaking that I can't have the wedding I want.

All of that aside, it's important for him to have it in the Catholic Church, so it's just as important to me to fulfill his wishes. We are in our Pre-Cana classes and a huge ball was just dropped upon us...I have to sign an agreement to raise my kids Catholic???? When I said no the priest said he refuses to marry us unless I change my mind. Neither of us knew this was going to be asked of us. Now my fiance doesn't think we really "know" eachother and thinks we don't want the same things. My opinions of children and church have always been laid out there, he changed. My problem is not that we are raising them Catholic, the thing is that I don't want that to be the ONLY choice and my own church not be allowed. I don't believe in baptizing babies is the biggest thing and I want my children to be able to be raised in both churches. Come on, it's 2013....Catholics and Methodists are both CHRISTIAN and we both believe in the same main guys. Of course I understand at the same time there are many differences which is why I have no desire to sign this document. Also, regarding baptizing babies, I understand the Catholic and Methodist thoughts on it, I just don't believe in it personally. I remember the day I was saved abd appreciate it just like the day I graduated high school and then college. I want my future children to make that special decision on their own. Both of us are non practicing by the way. However, I do think that just because I don't practice in public doesn't mean I don't practice on my own.

Would you happen to know if we get the marriage blessed if I would still have to sign that? Why can't this work? Sad face.

I hope there is someone out there with a good opinion and personal experience because I feel like my whole world is ending. This post is not meant to offend anyone who attends the Catholic Church as it is not my intention. Unfortunately, I can't seem to get a Catholic pastor that will meet with me to try to explain more of this to me. I emailed/called a week ago.

professorscience · February 2013

Okay, first of all, congratulations on your engagement!

Now for some stuff you might not like:

1) The Catholic party is responsible for raising any children with which you are blessed in the faith. That means it's would be your husband's responsibility to instruct your children in the teachings of the church. You would be asked to, in essence, not stand in his way. This might not really seem like too much of an issue, but please understand that disagreements over religion can be one of the leading causes of marital strife. That's why I love that the Catholic church has such intense Pre-Cana, because it really is important to cover these things BEFORE you get married.

2) Your FI might be right -- you clearly don't want the same things for your kids. And while it sucks that you feel like he's changed for the worse, the fact is if he's becoming stronger in his faith, it's an issue you're going to have to deal with sooner rather than later. Imagine if you were having these arguments in five years when he wants to baptize your first child?

I would encourage you (and him) to really do a lot of soul-searching, and keep trying to get a priest to sit down with you. You can almost always get with SOMEONE who will listen to all your concerns with nothing but compassion and love and hopefully do what they can to help alleviate your worries. I'm not saying you guys shouldn't get married, but you definitely have a lot of talking to do.

BTW, there are plenty of ways to "personalize" a Catholic wedding.

chelseamb11 · February 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_non-catholic-needing-help-precana-and-raising-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:f86da5f6-7c84-4875-964c-271af7a448a5Post:a59f4d00-db50-4617-b1a8-d5f957570829">Non-Catholic Needing Help - PreCana and Raising Children</a>:
[QUOTE]Hi guys, I wrote the following post on another board: Need some help here. So I've been engaged since June 30th. Ever since the engagement his parents (mother) has been a nightmare which can happen and I get it. It sucks. I have had to put my foot down multiple times with his mom not driving a wedge between us. It's really been on thing after another. What I need help with now is this.... When we first got together he claimed he grew up Catholic, but was more agnostic. I grew up Methodist, Baptist, and really just Christian period. Since we have been engaged, he has decided to adopt the Catholic religion again. I'm not upset about this as I would rather him believe in SOMETHING than nothing at all. This is the 2nd biggest wedge between us as he keeps diving more and more into the religion and making demands of me. I have compromised my dream beach wedding for a Catholic church wedding. While I have some questionable family members that I would rather not have a chance in hell coming to my wedding (which explains why I want a destination) we were only able to compromise on a wedding 4 hours away. I cannot write my own vows in the Catholic Church...not a huge deal just one more thing. Everything is so traditional and set in stone that it's a little heartbreaking that I can't have the wedding I want. All of that aside, it's important for him to have it in the Catholic Church, so it's just as important to me to fulfill his wishes. We are in our Pre-Cana classes and a huge ball was just dropped upon us...I have to sign an agreement to raise my kids Catholic???? When I said no the priest said he refuses to marry us unless I change my mind. Neither of us knew this was going to be asked of us. Now my fiance doesn't think we really "know" eachother and thinks we don't want the same things. My opinions of children and church have always been laid out there, he changed. My problem is not that we are raising them Catholic, the thing is that I don't want that to be the ONLY choice and my own church not be allowed. I don't believe in baptizing babies is the biggest thing and I want my children to be able to be raised in both churches. Come on, it's 2013....Catholics and Methodists are both CHRISTIAN and we both believe in the same main guys. Of course I understand at the same time there are many differences which is why I have no desire to sign this document. Also, regarding baptizing babies, I understand the Catholic and Methodist thoughts on it, I just don't believe in it personally. I remember the day I was saved abd appreciate it just like the day I graduated high school and then college. I want my future children to make that special decision on their own. Both of us are non practicing by the way. However, I do think that just because I don't practice in public doesn't mean I don't practice on my own. Would you happen to know if we get the marriage blessed if I would still have to sign that? Why can't this work? Sad face. I hope there is someone out there with a good opinion and personal experience because I feel like my whole world is ending. This post is not meant to offend anyone who attends the Catholic Church as it is not my intention. Unfortunately, I can't seem to get a Catholic pastor that will meet with me to try to explain more of this to me. I emailed/called a week ago.
Posted by nehgd9[/QUOTE]

First of all, you came to the right place. I am so sorry to hear that no priest will talk to you or answer your qeustions. Thankfully our board is full of very knowledgeable women.

Firstly, it is VERY possible for you both (a Methodist and a Catholic) to be married in the Catholic Church. However, part of being married in the Catholic Church includes certain vows. If you are vehemently opposed to your husband raising your children Catholic (you certainly don't have to play a roll in it if he does), it won't be possible for the two of you to be married in the Catholic Church. When you are married in the Church, you answer three questions before you take your vows that basically determines your "eligibility". The last of those questions is "Will you accept children lovingly from God, and bring them up according to the law of Christ and his Church?".

I know Methodist and Catholic both believe in Jesus, but the belief structure is VERY different. The Catholic Church is THE church that Jesus started. The Methodist Church is not and there are some doctrinational differences.

You mentioned that your beliefs have been laid out but that he changed. That does happen sometimes, and it is unfortunate, but that's when you need to really look at what he wants vs what you want and see if it is still compatible. I think you need to find a different priest (one who wont ignore you) and go in for some premarital counseling. He will be able to talk to you and your FI both seprately and together.

I'm not saying you two shouldn't get married, but if his Catholic religion is important to him, there are certain things he needs to uphold in order to stay in good standing with the faith he believes. It in no way says YOU have to believe it, but you definitely both need to evaluate what is important to you both right now in your lives and see if it is still compatible.

Good luck! I will say a prayer for you guys!

agapecarrie · February 2013

Bringing up children with a "choice" of religion doesn't work.

If someone believes something is the truth, you're not going to give the kids a bunch of options and say "pick one". If you believe 2+2=4, you're not going to tell kids "well, 2+2 can equal 3, 4, or 5...you get to decide.

Before rejecting the faith outright, I'd suggest learning what she really teaches. You might find, with good explanations, that it makes a whole lot of sense.

nehgd9 · February 2013

I guess I'm needing more information about what raising children Catholic truly means. I have no qualms with sending my future children to a Catholic school (providing the funds are there and it offers a better education) or them attending mass regularly. I absolutely do not want to be in his way of teaching his children the Catholic religion. My issue is tha I wanthave my kids to have the option to attend my church as well and wait on baptism until the children are between 12-14.

chelseamb11 · February 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_non-catholic-needing-help-precana-and-raising-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:f86da5f6-7c84-4875-964c-271af7a448a5Post:76705dc6-84cc-4fad-b30f-61622be461cd">Re: Non-Catholic Needing Help - PreCana and Raising Children</a>:
[QUOTE]I guess I'm needing more information about what raising children Catholic truly means. I have no qualms with sending my future children to a Catholic school (providing the funds are there and it offers a better education) or them attending mass regularly. I absolutely do not want to be in his way of teaching his children the Catholic religion. My issue is tha I wanthave my kids to have the option to attend my church as well and wait on baptism until the children are between 12-14.
Posted by nehgd9[/QUOTE]

Raising them Catholic would mean they cannot regularly attend other churches (they could attend with you for special occasions, just not receive communion) and they must be baptized as soon as possible. Unfortunately, as a Catholic, they cannot attend both churches. They must be raised to believe the Catholic faith. If, when adults, they decide it's not for them, that's up to them. But part of the role of the parent raising their children Catholic is doing everything you can to be sure your child sticks to the faith.

Raising them Catholic is just that: raising them to be Catholic and nothing else.

agapecarrie · February 2013

Baptism must not be delayed. This is extremely important to the Catholic faith.

The grace available from the sacrament (As well as the command to do this in scripture-- to baptize households) is so important. Please don't deny your children this. I'd ask you to do more research into the undertsanding of baptism, because it is not meant to be a "choice" of faith. We have a choice to make every single day all the time regarding living out our faith.

Giving an "option" though is the bare bones of a problem. If its truth, it can't be optional.

professorscience · February 2013

I'll be honest -- you remind me a lot of myself when DH and I were first talking about marriage about 5 years ago. I was not raised Catholic, and raising Catholic kids was kind of a scary idea to me. I started attending mass with him and doing my own research really early in our relationship because I needed to know what I was "getting myself into," so to speak. When I started accepting the idea of raising our kids in the church, I decided to do RCIA with no intentions of converting, but more to understand the faith our kids would be learning. I did end up converting, but I know plenty of people (my SIL included) who have held on to their personal faith while still raising their children in the Catholic church.

I think it can really hurt a child to have such a divide between the parents. Regardless of what you SAY to the kids, if Dad goes to mass and Mom goes to the Methodist church down the road, the kids are going to have questions. I think it would be really hard to explain to your kids, "Well, Mommy doesn't go to church with you all the time because she doesn't believe x, y, and z, but those things are okay for you!"

It's just something to consider. I think you both need to settle on a religious upbringing for your kids WAY before kids enter the picture.

Please stay and talk with us!

meltoine · February 2013

I think you may benefit from a better understanding of what it means to be baptized into the Catholic faith. At the baptism, the parents and godparents vow that they will raise the children in the Church, essentially the same thing you are agreeing to at your wedding, just for the specific child in question. Again, as a non-Catholic you don't have to be a part of this, but you can't get in the way of your husband doing it. We have another sacrament that is usually received between 12-14 called confirmation. At confirmation, the child chooses whether or not s/he want to remain in the Church and begin taking responsibility for their own faith - meaning continued study of the faith, attendance at mass, adherence to principles of the faith, etc. It has always seemed to me that Christian denominations that don't practice infant baptism basically conflate baptism and confirmation into one ceremony when the child is older. I'm sorry that you're in a rough spot right now. I think the best thing you can do is put the wedding planning on hold and get into counseling with your FI. You both need to come to a clear understanding of what you want both individually, and as a family for your future. It sounds like your FI's views on this are changing pretty rapidly, which is obviously a lot for you to deal with. You both need to decide if your visions for the future are still compatible. But issues of children, religion, and parenting are often causes of marital discord if they are not worked through thoroughly before marriage.

STARMOON44 · February 2013

If I may nudge in discreetly from the Methodist side of the equation, I agree with the Catholic ladies that you need to take a pause and work through this. The issue isn't really whether you can figure out a way to get through the ceremony, it's how do you get through the marriage? If you aren't on the same page, it's going to continue to be a struggle. I know, as a practicing Methodist, I could never convert to Catholicism, nor could I allow my kids to be raised Catholic. If you're looking for help about this, by all means find a priest, but a Methodist minister will also likely have dealt with interfaith relationships and be able to advise from the framework of your faith, even if you aren't practicing at the moment.

meltoine · February 2013

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_non-catholic-needing-help-precana-and-raising-children?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:f86da5f6-7c84-4875-964c-271af7a448a5Post:4c58ae04-7d59-4f60-bf54-dcdaa7c7413e">Re:NonCatholic Needing Help PreCana and Raising Children</a>:
[QUOTE]If I may nudge in discreetly from the Methodist side of the equation, I agree with the Catholic ladies that you need to take a pause and work through this. The issue isn't really whether you can figure out a way to get through the ceremony, it's how do you get through the marriage? If you aren't on the same page, it's going to continue to be a struggle. I know, as a practicing Methodist, I could never convert to Catholicism, nor could I allow my kids to be raised Catholic. If you're looking for help about this, by all means find a priest, but a Methodist minister will also likely have dealt with interfaith relationships and be able to advise from the framework of your faith, even if you aren't practicing at the moment.
Posted by STARMOON44[/QUOTE]

This is really great advice too. Thanks for sharing.

Calypso1977 · February 2013

My issue is tha I wanthave my kids to have the option to attend my church as well and wait on baptism until the children are between 12-14.

this isnt possible.

im sure you and your FI love each other very much - but IMO, love is never enough. it sounds like you are on two completely different pages in terms of your faith. it sounds like you would each be better off finding someone who is more closely aligned to your core beliefs abotu marriage and faith. i know it hurts to hear this, but its much better to find this out now, than after you are married and children are involved.

Riss91 · February 2013

I think the ladies here have explained most of what you need to know. I'm sure this is a very difficult situation. Please take time and really think through what you want and need in a marriage and what your FI wants and needs. Please ask us as many questions as you need to. I think from an outsider perspective it often looks like the Catholic Church is rigid and has all of these rules that are inconvenient and uncomfortable. Heck - I was raised Catholic and felt that way up until my mid 20s! I was lucky to have an amazing, patient resource to explain the reasons behind these "rules". Now it makes much more sense to me and those rules seem loving and caring. It's always best to have all of the information you need when making a big decision. It will help you grow in your faith to understand other faiths.

If your FI is really strengthening his faith - the most loving thing to do is to help him in that. If you aren't able to do that within marriage, then this might be the time to move on. I truly hope and pray that you are able to make peace with this situation.

nehgd9 · February 2013

Thanks all for your prayers and posts. t this time we have cancelled the wedding. This whole thing is like an onion, many many layers. I can definitely say that about 80% of the problem was not the church, it was his mother and his support of his mom over me. For example, I didn't know how to get the ring insured so I asked her how to go about it - bill of sale or appraisal. She immediately popped off at me and said Nicole I have your appraisal and it's none of your business. Then she went on to my fiance (with me standing there) pretty much saying how ungrateful I am for his gift and that she was keeping everything regarding the ring. He did absolutely nothing to back me up. All I wanted was to get it insured. I honestly don't care how much or how big it is. The important thing is that it was from him, that's all! So that was one story and there are about 30 others just like that unfortunately.

On the interfaith side of things -
I will say that instead of the priest immediately telling me that since I didn't believe the same things he did that he was going to postpone the wedding....
Maybe it would have been nice if he had asked me to attend his church to see what it was about.
Maybe it would have been nice if he had asked me to meet with him personally to try to work things out.
Maybe my fiance wouldn't have been so freaked out if his approach was different.

The day after we met with the priest, I called my pastor who lived over an hour away. He offered to meet with me immediately. His family grew up half Catholic and half Methodist and he just took the Methodist approach. It was nice to hear from someone who had been in the situation - and a PASTOR! It was amazing to me that he immediately wanted to help when I haven't seen him in years and the two priests I've contacted still haven't gotten back to me. Unfortunately, the fiance waited over a week to even call his priest. Due to his mother coming between us and causing so much heartache, I've had to begin counseling and therapy. I think it is becoming obvious that only one of us is trying 100%. It has to be 100/100.

Somethings are just not meant to be I guess. Thank you for the support friends.

Riss91 · February 2013

Unfortunately, there are priests that are really great and helpful and charitable and there are others that aren't. Priests are human, just like us. It took us a while to find a priest/parish that was warm, welcoming and firm in the faith. Priests are often very busy as well - they do have a lot of commitments - like hospital visits that might cause a delay in their response.

Hang in there! I think you are doing a great job of working through this.

Calypso1977 · February 2013

OP, im really sorry to hear this. but often times things that are the most painful end up truly being for the best. im sure the right mate is out there for both of you.

trust me when i say this - the mother thing will NEVER CHANGE. if he picks his family over you now, that will always be the case. its not the makings for a healthy marriage.

reach out to your church and faith at this time - both are there for you.

Resa77 · February 2013

OP, I'm so sorry for all that you're going through. I cannot imagine the hurt, disappointment and confusion that you must be experiencing. It sounds like you've realized the religion thing isn't the problem, as much as it's a symptom of bigger problems. Better to find that out now than later, I suppose, but that doesn't mean it isn't hard!

agapecarrie · February 2013

This sounds like he's had to do a lot of "growing up" very quickly and doesn't know what to make of it all. It seems at first he didn't care about his faith, so it wasn't important to him to bring you. But when faced with deeper decisions such as marriage and kids, that's what motivates him. He seems so new to it himself that he doesn't know how to handle it, and isn't equipped yet to evangelize, or teach others . Dealing with it and relating his new found faith to his family, that might be where he thinks he should place his loyalty. I'm not excusing the behavior, but trying to see some reasons behind it. Please don't think badly of Catholics because of this.

libby18bell · February 2013

OP, I commend you for realizing that the religion issue was just a symptom of a bigger problem. As PPs have said, the mother situation won't change, only the guy can be an adult and respect the relationship you two have. This time to think about things will be best for both of you. Please come back whenever to chit chat with us, since we all have family issues, and as agapecarrie mentioned, please don't think badly of Catholics because of this. This sounds like more of a family issue that he needs to deal with, got to love the relationship mothers have with their sons.

professorscience · February 2013

I don't have anything to say that hasn't already been said, but I'm so sorry for what you are going through.

nehgd9 · February 2013

Thanks guys. I have no ill feelings towards Catholics. I have always thought you believe the same thing I believe just practice it differently. Plus, I wouldn't want anyone putting down my religion so it wouldn't be fair for me to do the same.

You are right Resa. There is much hurt and disappointment because before we were engaged there was none of these issues. His mom treated me like her daughter and then everything immediately changed. What's weird is that she was so excited that he was going to propose that she told me everything about the engagement before we were even engaged! Then she told him that all I would talk about was when I was going to get my ring (NEVER would say something like that-not that kind of girl). She did ruin my surprise of my engagement and then lied to him when he asked her about it. Unfortunately, he believed her. Now I'm just getting into a resenting rant that I should probably just keep to myself.

Yes, he does have a lot of growing up to do.

Resa77 · February 2013

nehgd9, I totally know what you mean. Overbearing moms have a way of ruining things. I have a question -- you say the wedding is cancelled, but is the relationship over? Or are you trying to work things out?

nehgd9 · February 2013

I'm not sure. At this time he just wants to cancel the wedding and move apart. I don't want to play the maybe game and move out and move back in. It's too much stringing along that I feel I don't deserve. He says he wants to go back to what it was before we were engaged, but that doesn't erase the current issues we have.

stantokm · February 2013

I'm a little late to this post, but I know a little about what you're going through (minus the horrid mother-in-law...mine is great). I'm a practicing Catholic and FH was raised Mennonite (closest to Baptist, not Amish). He and I agreed that our children will be raised Catholic and that he will always attend Mass with me and our future kids. When they're in 8th grade and come to Confirmation, I'm letting it be their decision on whether to continue on (basically similar to your idea of Baptism). They will go to Mennonite services on special occasions like when we visit FH's family, but it won't be a dual-religion home. Nor a dueling religion home.

There are ways to make an interfaith marriage work and it would help if you learned more about Catholic teachings so that you can see all the similarities and differences to your own faith.

I'm sorry that his mother is terrible--he needs to stand up for you and be on your side. If you can get him to see what he's doing, I think that you can get the other things to work. If he's taking his mom's side and/or believing her over you, it's better to drop him. He'll be doing the same thing in 40 years. My grandfather was a mama's boy and my great-grandmother was evil; she destroyed my grandparents' marriage and he let her.

monkeysip · February 2013

Wow, OP, I'm so sorry it ended up like this.

It sounds like you were trying to really work things out, even if it meant you had to sacrifice some. And it's never good when a guy doesn't stand up to his mom for you. His loyalty should be to his (future) wife.

Stick around if you want to chit chat anymore. I hope things get better for you soon!

sophie41412 · February 2013

My husband is Catholic and I'm non-denominational Christian. We're expecting a child this summer.

We got married in the Catholic Church. My husband had to sign the "paperwork" regarding children. I did not.

We talked to a Priest recently about raising the child Catholic or just Christian. Of course, the Priest prefers the Catholic Church, but didn't really have a problem if the child is raised Christian. He just suggested our child attend mass once a month or so.

So...we have no plans to baptize our child. The child will be raised Christian.

lalaith50 · February 2013

<span style="font-size:11px;line-height:14px;">[QUOTE]My husband is Catholic and I'm non-denominational Christian. We're expecting a child this summer. We got married in the Catholic Church. My husband had to sign the "paperwork" regarding children. I did not. We talked to a Priest recently about raising the child Catholic or just Christian. Of course, the Priest prefers the Catholic Church, but didn't really have a problem if the child is raised Christian. He just suggested our child attend mass once a month or so. So...we have no plans to baptize our child. The child will be raised Christian. </span>
Posted by sophie41412[/QUOTE]
Hi Sophie,<div>Thanks for coming here and giving your perspective- </div><div>I'm not sure if that priest either didn't really give you good advice or didn't really understand that you weren't planning on baptizing your child- The Catholic Church would say that your child actually <em>isn't</em> a Christian until he is baptized! Maybe you have already thoroughly researched this, but you might be interested in learning more about *why* the Catholic Church teaches that infant baptism is so important.</div><div>here's somewhere to start:</div><div><a href="http://www.catholic.com/tracts/infant-baptism" rel="nofollow">http://www.catholic.com/tracts/infant-baptism</a></div>

Riss91 · February 2013

I would absolutely speak to another priest. That priest gave some serious misinformation that could put your husband and children in a bad place spiritually. Missing mass is a sin. Delaying baptism is dangerous.

Calypso1977 · February 2013

We talked to a Priest recently about raising the child Catholic or just Christian. Of course, the Priest prefers the Catholic Church, but didn't really have a problem if the child is raised Christian. He just suggested our child attend mass once a month or so.

many priests offer bad or incorrect information. sometimes this is malicious if the priest has a particuar agenda and is not in agreement wiht church teaching, other times it is out of ignorance and other times it is done because he thinks he is doing a greater good by trying to hold onto parishioners.

but in any case, what this priest told you is flat out wrong. your husband is responsible for the souls of his chidlren and seeing that htey are raised in the catholic church. that is a promise he made. for him to not follow through on that could have very serious consequences for him.

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