Broken Engagement

kaylynn32 · May 2012

I don't want to be a Debbie Downer, but I'm not sure how to handle this situation. My now ex-fiance decided four months before our wedding that after being together for 2.5 years and being engaged for a year, that he didnt want to be with me anymore. He did this via text message, ladies! I was an absolute wreck for a good 2 months, went to therapy, and even got put on medication to cope. Now that I'm well and happy, I'm very much ready to sell the engagement ring. My parents were willing to pay for our entire wedding and have lost thousands of dollars on deposits, down payments, my dress, and decorations, and I would really love to help pay them back with the money from the ring. The ring was purchased as a set, but the ex still has the band. Since he pretends as if I don't exist anymore, there is no way that I can get it back from him. Therefore, I'm not certain how to set the price on the ring itself. I'm also very unsure about where to even post the sale ad. I don't want to get scammed on Ebay or Craigslist, or get ripped off at a pawn shop, but I'm not sure where else to go. Any input on the matter will help. Thanks so much ladies and happy planning!

ChristineNB · May 2012

I am so sorry to hear you are going through this. I don't see a problem with trying to sell on eBay, you don't mail the ring until you get the money, and you can set a minimum amount for the auction. You could also list it on the classified section of theknot.

JoanE2012 · May 2012

Did you get it appraised? That should help you determine what to set the price at. Sorry you have to go through all this!

saritak · May 2012

Sorry you're going through this. There is also this site, but you have to include your "Breakup Story" in your post. Not sure if you are comfortable with that or not.

http://www.exboyfriendjewelry.com/

Smallstar · May 2012

I'm sorry that you had to go through that but it sounds like you're in a much better place now. One of my best friends went through the same thing a few years ago and ended up taking her ex to court. She ended up recouping some of the deposit money since both of their names were on the contracts. I'm sure that every situation is unique, but it's another avenue to look into. Good luck!

kaylynn32 · May 2012

Thanks so much for all of the input ladies!! I'm going to go back to the jewelrs soon and see what they will appraise it at, and I think I'm going to take it to a pawn shop and see how much they'll be willing to give me before I put it online. I'm actually in a much better place now and I really think that this whole situation is a blessing in disguise.

stealthangel20 · May 2012

Sorry to hear this! I will let you know what I went through. I was married, then divorced. For 10 years I held on to that thing trying to sell it off and on with no luck. I tried Craigslist, EBay, etc. I had it appraised at $1800 and ended up selling it to Pawn America for $290 just to get rid of the thing. I am getting married again in 5 days, so that money will be useful for something lol. Hope you have better luck than me!

littleluckypenny · May 2012

I'm sorry for what's happening, and I hate to be a jerk, but what if he wants the ring back? An engagement ring is a symbol of a contract, so if no marriage takes place, he technically has the right to have the ring back.

I suggest checking your state law, as in some states he could take you to court if you refuse to give it back to him, and he would win.

Blueyed228 · May 2012

If he paid for the ring himself then you need to give it back.

ArynBaker · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_broken-engagement?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:6d6e0853-94e0-4425-aaba-85810ca5e768Post:f22cf0ff-1380-4aae-8c40-f9885516c9ae">Re: Broken Engagement</a>:
[QUOTE]If he paid for the ring himself then you need to give it back.
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]

<div>I thought this was only the case if it's the woman that calls off the engagement. If it's the man then the ring is considered a gift and she doesn't need to return it. </div>

babe915 · May 2012

I have to agree with the crowd of you should give the ring back. I know you are out a lot of money from the split but he is also out the money from the ring. It was a sort of 'investment' it was a promise to marry and since he paid for it (most likely) like you paid for contracts it should be no different.

littleluckypenny · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_broken-engagement?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:6d6e0853-94e0-4425-aaba-85810ca5e768Post:bccc29c7-a818-4ffb-9597-f756cdfb046e">Re: Broken Engagement</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Broken Engagement : I thought this was only the case if it's the woman that calls off the engagement. If it's the man then the ring is considered a gift and she doesn't need to return it.
Posted by ArynBaker[/QUOTE]

Engagement rings aren't gifts, actually. They are meant to symbolize the <strong><em>intention </em></strong>of marriage. If the agreement is broken or the contract does not follow through (marriage), it is null and void as there is no more intention, and the person who purchased the ring has a right for said property to be returned. Not that I necessarily agree (depends on the situation in how it was called off), but that's how the law looks at it. If he chooses to let her keep it, is one thing, but if he wants it back he legally can.

Blueyed228 · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_broken-engagement?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:6d6e0853-94e0-4425-aaba-85810ca5e768Post:bccc29c7-a818-4ffb-9597-f756cdfb046e">Re: Broken Engagement</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Broken Engagement : I thought this was only the case if it's the woman that calls off the engagement. If it's the man then the ring is considered a gift and she doesn't need to return it.
Posted by ArynBaker[/QUOTE]

Nope.

Dont you people watch Judge Judy, lol.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_broken-engagement?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:6d6e0853-94e0-4425-aaba-85810ca5e768Post:eba8d23f-36ce-4c4c-8f63-7e73c3a6a0b1">Re: Broken Engagement</a>:
[QUOTE]I have to agree with the crowd of you should give the ring back. I know you are out a lot of money from the split but he is also out the money from the ring. It was a sort of 'investment' it was a promise to marry and since he paid for it (most likely) like you paid for contracts it should be no different.
Posted by babe915[/QUOTE]

I used to be argued that the ring was insurance for the woman - so she would have a means of support (selling it) if the engagement were called off.

OP, look for estate jewelers in your area. They deal in "used" jewelry.

LD1970 · May 2012

It depends entirely on state law.

In some states, like NJ, the ring is a conditional gift. If the condition of marriage is not fulfilled, the ring has to go back to the giver.

In other states, ownership of the ring is based on fault, so in this scenario in one of those states, since he called off the wedding, it'd be deemed his fault & she'd get to keep it.

I don't know the law in Ohio; OP needs to find out before disposing of the ring. OP, I'd also find out whether he could be held accountable for some or all of the money your parents shelled out and sue the pants off him.

Blueyed228 · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_broken-engagement?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:6d6e0853-94e0-4425-aaba-85810ca5e768Post:6afbbf84-026d-4c18-b61b-9b28621c3146">Re: Broken Engagement</a>:
[QUOTE]It depends entirely on state law. In some states, like NJ, the ring is a conditional gift. If the condition of marriage is not fulfilled, the ring has to go back to the giver. In other states, ownership of the ring is based on fault, so in this scenario in one of those states, since he called off the wedding, it'd be deemed his fault & she'd get to keep it<strong><u>. I don't know the law in Ohio;</u></strong> OP needs to find out before disposing of the ring. OP, I'd also find out whether he could be held accountable for some or all of the money your parents shelled out and sue the pants off him.
Posted by LD1970[/QUOTE]

<a href="https://www.ohiobar.org/ForPublic/Resources/LawYouCanUse/Pages/LawYouCanUse-429.aspx" rel="nofollow">https://www.ohiobar.org/ForPublic/Resources/LawYouCanUse/Pages/LawYouCanUse-429.aspx</a>

LD1970 · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_broken-engagement?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:6d6e0853-94e0-4425-aaba-85810ca5e768Post:b3c9488a-f88d-43a3-9c41-59688d798c31">Re: Broken Engagement</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Broken Engagement : <a href="https://www.ohiobar.org/ForPublic/Resources/LawYouCanUse/Pages/LawYouCanUse-429.aspx" rel="nofollow">https://www.ohiobar.org/ForPublic/Resources/LawYouCanUse/Pages/LawYouCanUse-429.aspx</a>
Posted by Blueyed228[/QUOTE]

<div>Yeah, it's likely she'd have to give back the ring, but not 100%. OP, get in touch with a lawyer in your county to find out if your court is in the majority or minority on this issue. </div><div>
</div><div>"<span style="background-color:#ffffff;color:#444444;font-family:Arial, Verdana, sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:24px;">In Ohio, the majority view is that the engagement ring must be returned to you regardless of who ended the engagement and for what reason. However, at least one court in Ohio has ruled that, unless there is an agreement to the contrary, an engagement ring need not be returned if the engagement has been unjustifiably broken. While this ruling has been criticized by other courts, it has not been overruled. Therefore, it all depends on what view your court would decide to follow."</span></div>

futuremrsbruno · May 2012

I'm so sorry that happened to you! It's completely horrible!! My ex did the same thing 8 years ago. In the end it was the best thing that ever happened to me because now I'm getting ready to marry the person I was meant to be with. Life's funny that way!

Anyway, I googled your question since I never gave the ring back, either. (He didn't want it). Here is what I found:
Conditional Gift States - Many courts look at an engagement ring as a conditional gift that is given in contemplation of marriage. If there is no marriage, then the engagement ring needs to be returned.

Iowa
Kansas
Michigan
New Jersey
New Mexico
New York
Pennsylvania
Wisconsin

The courts also have held in these states that the reasoning for no-fault divorces holds for no-fault broken engagements so an engagement ring should always be returned regardless of who decided to call off the engagement.

Implied Conditional States - In these locales, if the guy breaks the engagement, he won't get the ring back. If he doesn't break the engagement, he can request its return (California).

Unconditional Gift States - Other courts have held the belief that an engagement ring is an unconditional gift and so it doesn't need to be given back (Montana).

Family Heirloom Engagement Rings - If you are considering giving a family heirloom engagement ring, legal experts recommend having a prenuptial agreement that lists who will keep the engagement ring in the event of a break up.

See the links below.
Source(s):

*
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/r…

http://20-nothings.blogspot.com/2011/02/…

Hope that helps. Sounds like you may be able to keep the ring, but I would also get that checked out with your court system just in case. I'm guessing a call to a divorce or family lawyer would answer that for you! Also, if your state is one where the woman is granted the right to keep the ring, I do think it's possible that you could take him to court for money lost during the wedding planning. As an engagement is a contract, and he violated the terms of the contract in breaking it off. I don't know what they rule on that, but I've seen people on tv do it and get half of what they or their parents paid out.

Also, I would take the ring to a jeweler or an appraiser and get it inspected and then find out it's value. They could also give you a certificate that states the condition and value of the ring. Some people would buy without that, but others won't and it would probably boost your sale if you used ebay to auction it.

achiduck · May 2012

I'm so sorry that you had to go though that OP, but I agree with the other ladies about giving the ring back, if it's in your state law you really should return it. It would really suck to have him come after it 6 months down the road.

OliveOilsMom · May 2012

But if he gives you the ring on a holiday, say Christmas, I was always under the impression it is an outright gift, regardless of if the engagement is broken or not.

OP - if your parents are out a lot of money, they can always sue your ex-FI. I read about that a few years ago. I believe it was somewhere in the South. I have no idea what the outcome of that case was though.

nextrightthing · May 2012

If you don't think he will actually sue you, I would say go ahead and sell the ring. You probably aren't breaking criminal law by doing so, and it is highly unlikely that you'd be prosecuted for it. If he hasn't contacted you and asked for the ring back, you have the argument that he abandoned it. If he sues, your parents can countersue maybe. I'm sure that's an unpopular opinion, but that's ok. : I'm sorry this happened, but you probably dodged a bullet! I had a broken engagement 6 years ago and it was one of the best things that ever happened to me. My parents lost a lot of money, too, but it was more important to them that I not marry the wrong guy.

RailWayWife · May 2012

I would go get it appraised so you are fully aware how much it is worth. Sorry you have to go through all this. Good Luck!

LD1970 · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_broken-engagement?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:6d6e0853-94e0-4425-aaba-85810ca5e768Post:d24bcc02-5bbe-4ddb-864f-0b23a19461a7">Re: Broken Engagement</a>:
[QUOTE]But if he gives you the ring on a holiday, say Christmas, I was always under the impression it is an outright gift, regardless of if the engagement is broken or not.
Posted by OliveOilsMom[/QUOTE]
Again, this is a state-by-state issue, but yes. In NJ, for instance, a ring is a conditional gift and must be returned if the condition of marriage isn't fulfilled UNLESS it's also given as a gift for some other gift-giving events. I've always advised friends not to get engaged on Christmas, Valentine's Day, or the chick's birthday.<div>
</div><div>My H proposed at my birthday party that year, and I told him later he was a doofus, 'cause now the ring was mine no matter what. In fact, I'd told him that BEFORE he proposed, and he did it for my bday anyway. Ah, well, it's moot now that we've been married for a few years.</div><div>
</div><div>[QUOTE]If you don't think he will actually sue you, I would say go ahead and sell the ring. You probably aren't breaking criminal law by doing so, and it is highly unlikely that you'd be prosecuted for it. If he hasn't contacted you and asked for the ring back, you have the argument that he abandoned it. If he sues, your parents can countersue maybe. I'm sure that's an unpopular opinion, but that's ok. : I'm sorry this happened, but you probably dodged a bullet! I had a broken engagement 6 years ago and it was one of the best things that ever happened to me. My parents lost a lot of money, too, but it was more important to them that I not marry the wrong guy.
Posted by nextrightthing[/QUOTE] </div><div>
</div><div>This is terrible advice. Terrible. Just becuase OP wouldn't be breaking cirminal law & be prosecuted, she could very well be breaking a law under the civil code and get sued. I'm all about liability avoidance. If you can keep yourself from getting sued, the best policy is always to do so.</div><div>
</div><div>And by the way, brilliance, depending on how the laws in OH are written, she could actually be committing theft by refusing to return the ring. That's a criminal offense right there.</div><div>
</div><div>OP, call your county bar association & ask for the lawyer referral service. Tell them the situation & that you need to consult with an attorney who does both family & criminal law. You usually can get a 1/2 hour consultation for free or cheap that way.</div>

myname1234 · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_broken-engagement?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:6d6e0853-94e0-4425-aaba-85810ca5e768Post:ab0ab87f-e81f-4852-9a68-7c3467b8a70f">Re: Broken Engagement</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm sorry for what's happening, and I hate to be a jerk, but what if he wants the ring back? An engagement ring is a symbol of a contract, so if no marriage takes place, he technically has the right to have the ring back. I suggest checking your state law, as in some states he could take you to court if you refuse to give it back to him, and he would win.
Posted by littleluckypenny[/QUOTE]

this is exactly what i was thinking. You are supposed to give the e- ring back. If you sell it, he could come back and demand money or charge you with theft.

nextrightthing · May 2012

Are you the "this is not legal advice" girl? I can't see on TK mobile, but it sounds like it. If you are a risk averse lawyer, you would advise to avoid getting sued even if getting sued is highly unlikely. Or, you might advise all married men insist on DNA tests. Or, you might think a prosecutor would bring charges against a woman selling her engagement ring after the breakup. Whatever works for you. I'm gonna stick with what I said. Especially if his name is on any of the contracts for the wedding stuff. But again, maybe unpopular advice. Disclaimer: this is not legal advice. Lol.

mbody · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_broken-engagement?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:6d6e0853-94e0-4425-aaba-85810ca5e768Post:fb0b9a2e-612f-4121-8df9-51aecc477692">Re:Broken Engagement</a>:
[QUOTE]Are you the "this is not legal advice" girl? I can't see on TK mobile, but it sounds like it. If you are a risk averse lawyer, you would advise to avoid getting sued even if getting sued is highly unlikely. Or, you might advise all married men insist on DNA tests. Or, you might think a prosecutor would bring charges against a woman selling her engagement ring after the breakup. Whatever works for you. I'm gonna stick with what I said. Especially if his name is on any of the contracts for the wedding stuff. But again, maybe unpopular advice. Disclaimer: this is not legal advice. Lol.
Posted by nextrightthing[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure you're thinking of redhead something. Not the same person.

But regardless, OP needs to contact a lawyer or heavily research her state's laws regarding this issue. You never know if he might sue or not. Even if she doesn't think he will, people change after a break-up and when money is involved.

LD1970 · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_broken-engagement?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:6d6e0853-94e0-4425-aaba-85810ca5e768Post:fb0b9a2e-612f-4121-8df9-51aecc477692">Re:Broken Engagement</a>:
[QUOTE]Are you the "this is not legal advice" girl? I can't see on TK mobile, but it sounds like it. If you are a risk averse lawyer, you would advise to avoid getting sued even if getting sued is highly unlikely. Or, you might advise all married men insist on DNA tests. Or, you might think a prosecutor would bring charges against a woman selling her engagement ring after the breakup. Whatever works for you. I'm gonna stick with what I said. Especially if his name is on any of the contracts for the wedding stuff. But again, maybe unpopular advice. Disclaimer: this is not legal advice. Lol.
Posted by nextrightthing[/QUOTE]
No, I'm not.<div>
</div><div>Here's the problem with your reasoning: While I agree that in a situation like this where OP was wronged, as were her parents, and they're all 100% right to be angry, The ring was given by ex-FI to OP. The bills, however, were paid by OP's parents, not OP. A debt that ex-FI may or may not be owed to OP's parents can't be paid by OP keeping or selling her engagement ring if she's legally obligated to return it to ex-FI. You're talking about two different parties here, even though they're related.</div><div>
</div><div>I've been a lawyer for 17 years, and I've seen scenarios like this. People get ugly. People who swore they'd never come after something while they were together get really litigious once they're dealing with an ex. And people will use the law as a bludgeoning instrument.</div><div>
</div><div>I can give you a good example in the converse... I represented a guy in his divorce who'd used an heirloom ring when proposing to his wife. HUGE mistake, since there was no prenup regarding that ring. Family tradition was that the ring got passed down to the eldest son in each generation as he was ready to get engaged, so by way of tradition, wife would give the ring to the parties' older son when he found the chick to marry. Well, fast forward to wife & husband getting divorced. Husband knew wife didn't have a solid relationship with the older son & was likley to withhold the ring, give it to the younger son, or maybe even sell it. He tried to get it back, she refused, and the court said tough sh!t. It was a conditional gift, the condition of marriage was fulfilled, and gifts can't be demanded back. She could run the ring over with her car if she so chose. It was pretty heartbreaking to his family. Just an example of how perspectives change when relationships change. She was completely on board with following tradition... until they were splitting up and she had a chance to screw him over.</div><div>
</div><div>OP's ex-FI is being a big baby now & refusing communication, but 6 months or a year down the road when he comes demanding his ring back, she may be in deep sh!t if she's sold it. She needs to weigh if she really wants to owe him a few thousand dollars, especially since she likely can't sell it for nearly what it's worth.</div>

violet355 · May 2012

oh legal issues. this sucks, and sorry to hear this happened to you (and your parents). i would hold onto the ring for a while, wait until things are settled down between you and your ex before you try to approach him on this.

then ask him if he would like the ring back, because you were thinking of selling it so you could give your parents back some of the money they lost because of the broken engagement. leave the decision up to your ex, so that way you won't get in any kind of legal trouble if you sell it and he decides he wants it back later.

but another good site for that it idonowidont.com you don't have to post any story about your breakup if you don't want to. but if you end up selling it, i recommend getting it appraised and having all your paperwork for it. that way whoever is buying it knows they're not getting scammed. if you pawn it, or sell it to a jewelry store you'll get back a fraction of what he paid for it in the first place.

good luck.

mbrischoux · May 2012

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_broken-engagement?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:6d6e0853-94e0-4425-aaba-85810ca5e768Post:6afbbf84-026d-4c18-b61b-9b28621c3146">Re: Broken Engagement</a>:
[QUOTE]It depends entirely on state law. In some states, like NJ, the ring is a conditional gift. If the condition of marriage is not fulfilled, the ring has to go back to the giver. In other states, ownership of the ring is based on fault, so in this scenario in one of those states, since he called off the wedding, it'd be deemed his fault & she'd get to keep it. I don't know the law in Ohio; OP needs to find out before disposing of the ring. OP, I'd also find out whether he could be held accountable for some or all of the money your parents shelled out and sue the pants off him.
Posted by LD1970[/QUOTE]

IMHO, if a guy breaks off an engagement via text, that audacity supercedes all state laws!

But LD is right...look into yur state's laws and have the ring appraised.

Hoping you find peace with this.

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