Legally married before the wedding?

Killer Cupcake · April 2013

Okay. I'm REALLY going to bed right now.

I wish you all well. Good night.

kyrgyzstan · April 2013

This should clarify, though it is of course no replacement for the advice of your S1, or IPAC, or whoever.

http://www.cnic.navy.mil/navycni/groups/public/@hq/@housing/documents/document/cnicp_a293727.pdf

I believe this is what KC was referring to:

Service Charges: Geographic bachelors can be assessed nominal

fees to reimburse the utilities, administrative costs of

providing associated services, and cleaning of common areas.

The Installation Commander will determine the amount of the fees

based on the level of services provided and will operate on a

“non-profit” basis. The intent is to minimally recoup some of

the costs associated with housing of geographic bachelors, and

not place undue financial hardship on the member.

I have never had to deal with geo bachelor orders. H did a full 4 years in Okinawa before we met. He still managed to send a lot of money home to his beloved family, and he wasn't particularly good with money then.

Letshike · April 2013

You will be married by the law. BY THE LAW YOU WILL BE MARRIED. What don't you understand?

There is a separation of church and state so just because your church won't recognize it doesn't mean you're not married.

ggirl2001 · April 2013

So you're religious and your church won't see you as married until you get married in the church correct? But your religion is ok with lying to your guests about being legally married?? Weird. I thought lying was wrong in most religions.

NYCMercedes · April 2013

I agree with wishicouldbe, cupcake, ggirl, letshike, and everyone else who addressed your lying. Married is married. You can go to your pastor and ask him to perform the ceremony any time that he feels you have met his standards. You don't ever need a big to do. And I agree with your mom. This is totally about money to you, as I reread the first paragraph of your original post. Totally about money and not beliefs or faith. What you are panning is wrong.

manjermj · April 2013

Your mom is right and I agree with all of the ladies that have posted so far. This isn't our first rodeo. No one is attacking, we are just trying to inform you based on our experiences. From what we've seen, when someone gets married at the JOP then has another "wedding" without informing all of their most nearest and dearest loved ones, that they are in fact already married, it is lying and most of these people will be very hurt when they find out. This is not something you want to do. But if you want to have a JOP wedding then a church ceremony, that is fine. BUT it will NOT BE A WEDDING and should not be treated as such. I'm not as familiar with the Orthodox church, but in the Catholic church it would be a Convalidation - NOT A WEDDING. I'd assume the Orthodox church has something similar.

Anyways....So I guess what I'm not understanding is that by getting married at the JOP what is the benefit other than the money? If you are only getting married to get the money, that in itself is so so wrong and deceitful. If you can't afford to live or afford a wedding without this extra money you're hoping to receive, then maybe you simply need to reconsider your finances and the extravagance/expense of your wedding and cut back. Afford what you can afford. There are so many other options here but unforuntately you want to take the easy (and wrong) way out.

manjermj · April 2013

Oh and I just wanted to add that in my own experience, I know how you feel, but trust us it's not worth it! My husband and I had lived in different states for nearly 5 years (May 2008-January 2013) when we were able to finally have our wedding. It was soo important to us to have the wedding of our dreams with all of our family and friends and to do it the "right" way (as you said). I am so glad we waited. Patience and good planning/saving will pay off, I promise.

Sammy0709 · April 2013

In Response to Re:Legally married before the wedding?:

Interestingly enough, I'm not Catholic. Try again.And the only place I've hesitated to apply to is McDonalds at this point, and that's only because the homeless people the police refuse to allow on the streets end up there instead of the psych ward for some reason. Posted by lyssabee

Homeless people belong in the psych ward? Because being homeless is a diagnosed mental illness or what is your reasoning. This is why healthcare is so expensive...people with no insurance that have no business being in a hospital. They're not sick...they're homeless. I bet you go to the ER when you stub your toe. To be completely honest, this post fully explains to me why you think what you're doing is okay. You're obviously in your own little world where your comments and actions don't have consequences for others.

iluvmytxrgr · April 2013

I would seriously question the leadership ability of any officer or NCO who encourages his juniors to marry sooner rather than later. That is an extremely irresponsible and immature out look on marriage. Let me put it this way. Would you send your Marines out on a dangerous mission with out fully preparing for it first? I sure the heck hope not!

As a wedding professional, you can very easily plan an Orthodox wedding in a very small amount of time. We did one last year with two months notice. We had to do it on a Thursday do to availability, but it worked out. Plan the wedding you want and do it. Missrepresenting your self as not married because your church doesn't see your legal marriage as a marriage is BS. It's fraud, it's lying, it's dishonorable, it lacks integrity and show poor judgement, especially from someone who should know better.

iluvmytxrgr · April 2013

In Response to Re:Legally married before the wedding?:

In Response to Re:Legally married before the wedding?: Homeless people belong in the psych ward? Because being homeless is a diagnosed mental illness or what is your reasoning. This is why healthcare is so expensive...people with no insurance that have no business being in a hospital. They're not sick...they're homeless. I bet you go to the ER when you stub your toe. To be completely honest, this post fully explains to me why you think what you're doing is okay. You're obviously in your own little world where your comments and actions don't have consequences for others.
Posted by Sammy0709

Yeah, this post also bothered me. It really speaks to the maturity of the poster.

ggirl2001 · April 2013

The homeless post bothered me too. As a mental health professional especially. Yes, some mentally ill people are homeless but not all. But to judge either group of people is wrong. The fact that you would turn down a job because of that is downright disgusting. And we wonder why people don't seek help for their problems, whether it be homelessness or mental health issues.

ggirl2001 · April 2013

Oh and cab don't ban me if I get mean! I'm under the influence of many drugs thanks to getting my wisdom teeth removed!

CAB1217 · April 2013

OP, do whatever you want. Don't ask people for their opinions if you can't handle people disagreeing with you. And, lastly, grow up. Seriously, you've been given some excellent advice here. I am so annoyed and upset at the mental health comments, too. And I just had to see that as I was monitoring a foster visit with people that have mental illnesses. To see them struggling the way that they are right now, and then to read that. I'm just disgusted.

CAB1217 · April 2013

In Response to Re:Legally married before the wedding?:

Oh and cab don't ban me if I get mean! I'm under the influence of many drugs thanks to getting my wisdom teeth removed! Posted by ggirl2001

Never gonna happen lady!

antibride2013 · April 2013

This whole post made me so mad! OP, everyone is right. I also am appalled that a Marine Officer would knowingly lie, cheat, and steal because in essence that is exactly what you two plan to do. You plan to lie to people about being legally married, cheat and steal money and benefits from the government. You need to be kicked out of the military.

Your JOP wedding is your WEDDING. Anything else is a PPD. Period. End of story. You two both make me sick, and if your FI truly is a officer in the Marines, I have lost any respect I had for the Marine Corps. You both should be ashamed of yourselves. Man I wish I could report people like you!!! Lying and stealing doesn't go over well in the military AT ALL.

kelty24 · April 2013

I know I'm a little late here, but this is kind of irritating. I'm a Christian. I know that even as Christians each of us STILL have different beliefs, but I feel like if your religion is THIS important to you then you will wait. I'm waiting until August. We've been engaged for over a year, yeah it would be nice to have the extra income to help pay for it, but you're right, it's not right and it doesn't coincide with my beliefs. My faith is important to me. Doing things the right way is important to me. Times are hard. It's hard paying for a wedding. I struggled finding jobs for a long time, but I'm not going to compromise my beliefs and morals because I don't have enough money to pay for the wedding of my dreams. You have to sacrifice things. That's a part of life. Now I have an amazing job and am able to actually pay for a lot of things. I didn't give up. I kept my faith and didn't give in to what would be "easier." I ALSO realized that marrying my FI is the most important part. It doesn't have to be a HUGE EXPENSIVE wedding. The reason for my wedding is to marry my FI and that's all that should matter.

I don't want to get into a "religious" debate with you, but the things you say don't add up. What I've read from the bible, what constitutes as being married is 1) being legally married, as in submitting government documents as long as the documents don't go against God's word 2) having a ceremony... doesn't even say what size... so a JOP, or an elopement (like MANY of my friends) or a HUGE wedding are ALL ceremonies. and well 3) 2 become one flesh... you can figure that one out...

I know you have your beliefs and if your beliefs are to have a huge ceremony in a church, then stick to your beliefs and wait. Especially if you can't recognize that if you get married before your wedding then you're married and therefore it wouldn't be a wedding and you would be lying to everybody. And getting married for money? That's doesn't go against your beliefs? YOU OBVIOUSLY know what's right and what's wrong, you even said it in your first post!

You're not going to get the answer your looking for here. Maybe try another board with less morals.

ggirl2001 · April 2013

In Response to Re:Legally married before the wedding?:

This whole post made me so mad!nbsp; OP, everyone is right.nbsp; I also am appalled that a Marine Officer would knowingly lie, cheat, and steal because in essence that is exactly what you two plan to do.nbsp; You plan to lie to people about being legally married, cheat and steal money and benefits from the government.nbsp; You need to be kicked out of the military.nbsp; Your JOP wedding is your WEDDING.nbsp; Anything else is a PPD.nbsp; Period.nbsp; End of story.nbsp; You two both make me sick, and if your FI truly is a officer in the Marines, I have lost any respect I had for the Marine Corps.nbsp; You both should be ashamed of yourselves.nbsp; Man I wish I could report people like you!!!nbsp; Lying and stealing doesn't go over well in the military AT ALL. Posted by antibride2013

Over reaction much? Because one person represents the entire Marine Corps? That's like me saying all people who follow Orthodox religions are like the OP, which is not true. I find your statement completely offensive and a gross overgeneralization.

Viczaesar · April 2013

OP, you need to talk to your religious authorities again. What you're saying is not correct for either Eastern or Greek Orthodox, nor any other Orthodox group that I know.

kyrgyzstan · April 2013

In Response to Re:Legally married before the wedding?:

This whole post made me so mad!nbsp; OP, everyone is right.nbsp; I also am appalled that a Marine Officer would knowingly lie, cheat, and steal because in essence that is exactly what you two plan to do.nbsp; You plan to lie to people about being legally married, cheat and steal money and benefits from the government.nbsp; You need to be kicked out of the military.nbsp; Your JOP wedding is your WEDDING.nbsp; Anything else is a PPD.nbsp; Period.nbsp; End of story.nbsp; You two both make me sick, and if your FI truly is a officer in the Marines, I have lost any respect I had for the Marine Corps.nbsp; You both should be ashamed of yourselves.nbsp; Man I wish I could report people like you!!!nbsp; Lying and stealing doesn't go over well in the military AT ALL. Posted by antibride2013

Well, that's not fair. A bunch of the people in this post, who don't condone hiding marriage, are married to Marines.

hosley1028 · April 2013

I'm trying to get legally married before my 'real' ceremony. It's not for money reasons though; it's so that he doesn't get orders unaccompanied without me overseas somewhere. Either way, this is your desicion, not your moms, and not the judgemental people on this board. Do what you think is best for you and your fiance. Best of luck

)

iluvmytxrgr · April 2013

I guess I'm not "really" married since we didn't have a "real" ceremony.

ggirl2001 · April 2013

Uh, so your real ceremony is gonna be when you have your PPD? Then you shouldn't be on his orders since that whole legal piece isn't real to you.

And yeah, you know what I am judging. I am judging people who aren't considering their wedding day "real" because they don't have the bells and whistles. A wedding day is the day you get married. Not the day you get to wear a pretty white dress and tiara. I can do that today, but guess what? It still won't be my wedding day. Because I had that almost two years ago. The day the paperwork was signed. The day we were allowed to get benefits from the military. That same day you are planning to have when you have that legal ceremony. That is your wedding day. Everything else is just fluff.

And if you want the bells and whistles, then you either sacrifice some aspects, or wait like most people do, including those in civilian relationships.

NYCMercedes · April 2013

In Response to Re: Legally married before the wedding?:

I'm trying to get legally married before my 'real' ceremony. It's not for money reasons though; it's so that he doesn't get orders unaccompanied without me overseas somewhere. Either way, this is your desicion, not your moms, and not the judgemental people on this board. Do what you think is best for you and your fiance. Best of luck )
Posted by hosley1028

What dont you get about legally married IS your real ceremony?

manjermj · April 2013

In Response to Re: Legally married before the wedding?:

I'm trying to get legally married before my 'real' ceremony. It's not for money reasons though; it's so that he doesn't get orders unaccompanied without me overseas somewhere. Either way, this is your desicion, not your moms, and not the judgemental people on this board. Do what you think is best for you and your fiance. Best of luck )
Posted by hosley1028

Um...first off you can't get married twice and even if you're married, there is still a PRETTY good chance that if his orders are overseas, they will be unaccompanied orders....

dominicaw · May 2013

Well! Let me just say that I am in the same boat as the OP. I am getting married this fall and moving in with the fiance. Then I will have my "wedding" next summer. Honeymoon and all! I say that you don't need to ask advice from any of these women. I know I won't. Plus, it's your wedding do what you want. Decorate how you want. You don't need the input from anyone but you and your future husband. And if you all feel the need to talk about how much of a lying liar I am then wonderful. But this is what I want. This is what I'm planning.

Jen4948 · June 2013

Going through a legal ceremony to claim the legal and military benefits of marriage while concealing it and claiming you're "not married" because it wasn't in your house of worship with the clergyman officiating and you weren't wearing a big white dress and there weren't bridesmaids and family and gifts and so on is LYING.

It is lying to the guests, it is lying to the taxpayers who are footing the bill for the benefits you're claiming while pretending you're not married, and it is lying to yourself.

We don't appreciate lies or liars. For that matter, neither do the armed forces. Grow up.

sandratw · June 2013

Wow this is interesting... We also got legally married last year and will have a church wedding next year. Everyone knows we are married, but for us, the church wedding will count as our real wedding.

For me this is a no brainer, since where I come from (Germany) you HAVE TO do both since the German government does not recognize a church wedding as a legal marriage. EVERYONE has to go to the court house before the church ceremony, which is usually with close family only. Some do it the same day, a week, a month or a year in advance of the church wedding.

But yes, we did not lie about this. I already have his last name and everyone knows we are married, BUT we also tell everyone that our REAL wedding will be next year.

So as long as you are open about it and let everyone know your plans, I do not see a problem??

Guess this is not as common in the US though, took me a little bit of explaining to hubbys family, whereas my side never asked a single questions since it is normal for us. But especially in the military I know a lot of people that did it that way, especially for mil/mil couples so they could get joint assignments.

sjbeatty09 · July 2013

Me and my FH did the exact same thing. Because of our position (I was about to commission and he is enlisted) the only way we would 1) be stationed together and 2) not be called for fraternization was to do the "legal" thing early. To us, it's just paperwork, and didn't even really count. We literally just walked into the judges office, explained our situation, and he signed the paperwork with no vows or words or anything, which is just what we wanted.

To me, and is seems to you, there is a difference between marriage and being legally married. A marriage involves a spiritual commitment and is a state of being, and that cannot be contained to legal realms. Heck, there are plenty of people who get "married" for things such as residency and immigration. I'm just saying, they are two different things.

In the end, it's between you and your future husband, and no one else. Good luck to you!

iluvmytxrgr · July 2013

I guess my kids are b@stards since, as you explain it, my husband and I aren't really married. Way to offend a crap ton of people.

I honestly question the leadership ability of any officer who knows they are going to commission and knows they have to marry their enlisted fiance in order to avoid fraternization charges but waits so long to do it that they have to run to a judge for a quick wedding. Do you procrastinate on everything? It only takes a couple of weeks to plan wedding. You could have easily had your "real" wedding to have an actual "real" marriage with out having the "fake" one that is just paperwork.

manjermj · July 2013

sjbeatty09 said:

Me and my FH did the exact same thing. Because of our position (I was about to commission and he is enlisted) the only way we would 1) be stationed together and 2) not be called for fraternization was to do the "legal" thing early. To us, it's just paperwork, and didn't even really count. We literally just walked into the judges office, explained our situation, and he signed the paperwork with no vows or words or anything, which is just what we wanted.

To me, and is seems to you, there is a difference between marriage and being legally married. A marriage involves a spiritual commitment and is a state of being, and that cannot be contained to legal realms. Heck, there are plenty of people who get "married" for things such as residency and immigration. I'm just saying, they are two different things.

In the end, it's between you and your future husband, and no one else. Good luck to you!

Ummm I don't even know what to say to this. I'm pretty sure the only way to be married in the eyes of the government AND military is to have a legal marriage - that moment that you sign that marriage certificate. You can go to your church and "get married" but without that piece of paper, it still doesn't count. Plus, not everyone is spriitual and having a spiritual ceremony doesn't make you any MORE married. I just don't get it.

The purpose of a wedding is to get married. Once you are married, you have had your wedding your wedding. Plain and simple. Plan the wedding that you want and have it all at once.

And just because there are people that get married for residency and immigration doesn't make it right for them either....

Legally married before the wedding?

Re: Legally married before the wedding?

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