Which is ruder? Tell me what to do

PrettyGirlLost · July 2014

southernbelle0915 said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

southernbelle0915 said:

BMoreBride6 said:

you still haven't answered the question of what the venue will do if you are over the number. I think that plays a big role here.

This. If you're not over fire code, then options would be:

- eliminating your dance floor
- using rectangular tables in long cafeteria style fashion instead of rounds
- putting auxiliary tables out in the hall (if an option)
- putting the bar out in the hall (if an option)
- eliminating any head table(s)

@PrettyGirlLost - I think this is OP's problem to solve and that it's not appropriate to tell her mom rescind the invitation to aunt/cousin. I guess I think about my own wedding. My dad came to me and asked that a couple of his business partners be invited. I said "ok, dad, you got it. they're added to the guest list". I think that's confirmation enough that they are invited. If room became an issue, I would have gone to him and said "hey dad - did you mention anything to your business partners about being invited to the wedding?" If he said yes, it's my problem because I told him they'd be invited. If he said no, I might say "please don't - I don't think we have room for them."

I never suggested that was an option, though.

My main point was just that suggesting to the OP that she find a new venue is totally unrealistic advice. It's the correct advice from an etiquette standpoint, but it just doesn't work in reality; very few people are going to have the means and be willing to lose that much money and be able to find a venue at the last minute that isn't already booked.

I misinterpreted her actual head count. I thought she had a total of 35 (+6 addt'l) - not that she was 35+6 OVER, meaning about 170 people. With a small wedding, she could have easily moved to a new venue - a private room at a restaurant. I thought that was a pretty realistic suggestion (being that I also thought she was having a small wedding...der). With a big wedding, I agree - she is more stuck.

If it's a fire code thing and there are no adjacent rooms for rent in the building, there is no proper etiquette advice for this unless she changes venues, which at this point would be very difficult - I agree. If it's not a fire code thing, she'll have to sacrifice a lot, but you do what you have to do...

The size of the wedding is irrelevant though. The main issue as I see it is that you cannot break the majority of venue contracts w/o incurring a financial penalty, and the closer to your contracted wedding date you are, the bigger the penalty fee to the point where you will owe the entire cost of the reception whether you moved to a new venue or not.

As an example, here are the cancellation fees for my venue:
From six months to 90 days to the event:
An amount equal to fifty percent (50%) of the food, beverage and meeting
room revenue, applicable sales tax based on the minimum estimate in the
overview of this contract prior to the event date.

From 89 days 31 days to the event date:
An amount equal to seventy-five percent (75%) of the food, beverage and
meeting room revenue, and applicable sales tax based on the minimum
estimate in the overview of contract prior to the event date.

From 30 days to the event date:
An amount equal to one hundred percent (100%) of the food, beverage and
meeting room revenue, and applicable sales tax based on the minimum
estimate in the overview of contract prior to the event date.

Even if she was having a small wedding and could move the reception to a restaurant, or even if she could move her 100+ person wedding to a hotel ballroom, I doubt she is willing to forfeit 75% to 100% of her contracted venue fees *just* because it is correct etiquette to find a bigger venue. . . the OP said that switching venues isn't an option.

Your suggestions of how to reconfigure the reception layout in order to try and fit the extra people in are far more plausible in this situation, than suggesting a move to a different venue.

southernbelle0915 · July 2014

PrettyGirlLost said:

southernbelle0915 said:
I misinterpreted her actual head count. I thought she had a total of 35 (+6 addt'l) - not that she was 35+6 OVER, meaning about 170 people. With a small wedding, she could have easily moved to a new venue - a private room at a restaurant. I thought that was a pretty realistic suggestion (being that I also thought she was having a small wedding...der). With a big wedding, I agree - she is more stuck.

If it's a fire code thing and there are no adjacent rooms for rent in the building, there is no proper etiquette advice for this unless she changes venues, which at this point would be very difficult - I agree. If it's not a fire code thing, she'll have to sacrifice a lot, but you do what you have to do...

The size of the wedding is irrelevant though. The main issue as I see it is that you cannot break the majority of venue contracts w/o incurring a financial penalty, and the closer to your contracted wedding date you are, the bigger the penalty fee to the point where you will owe the entire cost of the reception whether you moved to a new venue or not.

As an example, here are the cancellation fees for my venue:
From six months to 90 days to the event:
An amount equal to fifty percent (50%) of the food, beverage and meeting
room revenue, applicable sales tax based on the minimum estimate in the
overview of this contract prior to the event date.

From 89 days 31 days to the event date:
An amount equal to seventy-five percent (75%) of the food, beverage and
meeting room revenue, and applicable sales tax based on the minimum
estimate in the overview of contract prior to the event date.

From 30 days to the event date:
An amount equal to one hundred percent (100%) of the food, beverage and
meeting room revenue, and applicable sales tax based on the minimum
estimate in the overview of contract prior to the event date.

Even if she was having a small wedding and could move the reception to a restaurant, or even if she could move her 100+ person wedding to a hotel ballroom, I doubt she is willing to forfeit 75% to 100% of her contracted venue fees *just* because it is correct etiquette to find a bigger venue. . . the OP said that switching venues isn't an option.

Your suggestions of how to reconfigure the reception layout in order to try and fit the extra people in are far more plausible in this situation, than suggesting a move to a different venue.

What is your advice if it's against fire code and not just a set-up issue? She over invited by 40+ people (including the verbal invites but no paper invite) - that's almost 25% of her total guest list. Would you tell her to B-list? Or rescind invitations?

Mine is that if it's a violation of fire code and she can't get an adjacent room or work with the venue she has, she needs to find a new venue that will accommodate all the people she invited. I can't apologize for giving proper etiquette advice on this board.

I'm sympathetic to the fact that it's expensive this late in the game and I feel bad for OP. It's stressful and it sucks. That's not the question though. The question, here on the E-board, is what to do when you over-invite.

PrettyGirlLost · July 2014

southernbelle0915 said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

southernbelle0915 said:
I misinterpreted her actual head count. I thought she had a total of 35 (+6 addt'l) - not that she was 35+6 OVER, meaning about 170 people. With a small wedding, she could have easily moved to a new venue - a private room at a restaurant. I thought that was a pretty realistic suggestion (being that I also thought she was having a small wedding...der). With a big wedding, I agree - she is more stuck.

If it's a fire code thing and there are no adjacent rooms for rent in the building, there is no proper etiquette advice for this unless she changes venues, which at this point would be very difficult - I agree. If it's not a fire code thing, she'll have to sacrifice a lot, but you do what you have to do...

The size of the wedding is irrelevant though. The main issue as I see it is that you cannot break the majority of venue contracts w/o incurring a financial penalty, and the closer to your contracted wedding date you are, the bigger the penalty fee to the point where you will owe the entire cost of the reception whether you moved to a new venue or not.

As an example, here are the cancellation fees for my venue:
From six months to 90 days to the event:
An amount equal to fifty percent (50%) of the food, beverage and meeting
room revenue, applicable sales tax based on the minimum estimate in the
overview of this contract prior to the event date.

From 89 days 31 days to the event date:
An amount equal to seventy-five percent (75%) of the food, beverage and
meeting room revenue, and applicable sales tax based on the minimum
estimate in the overview of contract prior to the event date.

From 30 days to the event date:
An amount equal to one hundred percent (100%) of the food, beverage and
meeting room revenue, and applicable sales tax based on the minimum
estimate in the overview of contract prior to the event date.

Even if she was having a small wedding and could move the reception to a restaurant, or even if she could move her 100+ person wedding to a hotel ballroom, I doubt she is willing to forfeit 75% to 100% of her contracted venue fees *just* because it is correct etiquette to find a bigger venue. . . the OP said that switching venues isn't an option.

Your suggestions of how to reconfigure the reception layout in order to try and fit the extra people in are far more plausible in this situation, than suggesting a move to a different venue.

What is your advice if it's against fire code and not just a set-up issue? She over invited by 40+ people (including the verbal invites but no paper invite) - that's almost 25% of her total guest list. Would you tell her to B-list? Or rescind invitations?

Mine is that if it's a violation of fire code and she can't get an adjacent room or work with the venue she has, she needs to find a new venue that will accommodate all the people she invited. I can't apologize for giving proper etiquette advice on this board.

I'm sympathetic to the fact that it's expensive this late in the game and I feel bad for OP. It's stressful and it sucks. That's not the question though. The question, here on the E-board, is what to do when you over-invite.

I gave her some advice in my original response- Is it possible to rent another ballroom/room adjacent to where your reception is going to be held to accommodate the additional people? It's not ideal, but it's better than being over the fire code or trying to un-invite people or just praying that people decline.

Would it be possible to have the dancefloor/DJ and cake in the other room to make room for all your guests to be seated with you in the 1st room? How about getting rid of the head table, if you were having one, to make more room? If you are having a buffet, can you have it set up in the 2nd room?

If she can't get a second room or move to a larger room in her venue, then yes, I'd suggest she B-List over rescinding invitations- NOT because it is correct etiquette advice, but because realistically I don't believe anyone would piss away a significant amount of money in penalty fees just to follow etiquette, and also because I recognize it might be very difficult if not impossible to find a new venue at the last minute.

Regardless of this beig an Etiquette board, I personally try to give realistic advice, as well as etiquette-approved advice, because what is the point in giving advice that a person can't actually use or will just ignore? Sure people ignore us all of the time, but this OP is trying to make this work and looking for options.

The OP is flat out screwed etiquette wise in this situation, if she can't get a larger room or a second room in her contracted venue. She already stated she's not going to switch her venue. There was a woman a few months ago in a similar situation and I didn't suggest she mover her venue in that thread either.

PrettyGirlLost · July 2014

Knottie22177400 you need to come back and answer some questions and give us a bit more info so that we can help you find a solution to this mess!

southernbelle0915 · July 2014

PrettyGirlLost said:

southernbelle0915 said:
What is your advice if it's against fire code and not just a set-up issue? She over invited by 40+ people (including the verbal invites but no paper invite) - that's almost 25% of her total guest list. Would you tell her to B-list? Or rescind invitations?

Mine is that if it's a violation of fire code and she can't get an adjacent room or work with the venue she has, she needs to find a new venue that will accommodate all the people she invited. I can't apologize for giving proper etiquette advice on this board.

I'm sympathetic to the fact that it's expensive this late in the game and I feel bad for OP. It's stressful and it sucks. That's not the question though. The question, here on the E-board, is what to do when you over-invite.

I gave her some advice in my original response- Is it possible to rent another ballroom/room adjacent to where your reception is going to be held to accommodate the additional people? It's not ideal, but it's better than being over the fire code or trying to un-invite people or just praying that people decline.

Would it be possible to have the dancefloor/DJ and cake in the other room to make room for all your guests to be seated with you in the 1st room? How about getting rid of the head table, if you were having one, to make more room? If you are having a buffet, can you have it set up in the 2nd room?

If she can't get a second room or move to a larger room in her venue, then yes, I'd suggest she B-List over rescinding invitations- NOT because it is correct etiquette advice, but because realistically I don't believe anyone would piss away a significant amount of money in penalty fees just to follow etiquette, and also because I recognize it might be very difficult if not impossible to find a new venue at the last minute.

Regardless of this beig an Etiquette board, I personally try to give realistic advice, as well as etiquette-approved advice, because what is the point in giving advice that a person can't actually use or will just ignore? Sure people ignore us all of the time, but this OP is trying to make this work and looking for options.

The OP is flat out screwed etiquette wise in this situation, if she can't get a larger room or a second room in her contracted venue. She already stated she's not going to switch her venue. There was a woman a few months ago in a similar situation and I didn't suggest she mover her venue in that thread either.

If she's stuck with the venue and the cap is a fire code, thing..... I'm willing to bet there's no way she's going to be able to B-list 6 people. She would need to get 35 declines just to accommodate the people on the A-list who already have their invitations. And then another 6 declines to invite the 6 people on the B-list (who already got verbal invitations, so it's generous to call it a B-list in the first place).

And if she decides to go the B-list route, she won't know until about 2 weeks before if she needs to take it a step further and rescind invitations because there weren't enough declines to accommodate either list.

I'm all for giving realistic advice and I completely agree with you that realistic advice is by far the best solution. No sarcasm - it is good to bring the discussion back to reality sometimes. But unless the venue is jerking her around and they can make room, in this particular case I don't really think B-listing would even work (realistically).

PrettyGirlLost · July 2014

southernbelle0915 said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

southernbelle0915 said:
What is your advice if it's against fire code and not just a set-up issue? She over invited by 40+ people (including the verbal invites but no paper invite) - that's almost 25% of her total guest list. Would you tell her to B-list? Or rescind invitations?

Mine is that if it's a violation of fire code and she can't get an adjacent room or work with the venue she has, she needs to find a new venue that will accommodate all the people she invited. I can't apologize for giving proper etiquette advice on this board.

I'm sympathetic to the fact that it's expensive this late in the game and I feel bad for OP. It's stressful and it sucks. That's not the question though. The question, here on the E-board, is what to do when you over-invite.

I gave her some advice in my original response- Is it possible to rent another ballroom/room adjacent to where your reception is going to be held to accommodate the additional people? It's not ideal, but it's better than being over the fire code or trying to un-invite people or just praying that people decline.

Would it be possible to have the dancefloor/DJ and cake in the other room to make room for all your guests to be seated with you in the 1st room? How about getting rid of the head table, if you were having one, to make more room? If you are having a buffet, can you have it set up in the 2nd room?

If she can't get a second room or move to a larger room in her venue, then yes, I'd suggest she B-List over rescinding invitations- NOT because it is correct etiquette advice, but because realistically I don't believe anyone would piss away a significant amount of money in penalty fees just to follow etiquette, and also because I recognize it might be very difficult if not impossible to find a new venue at the last minute.

Regardless of this beig an Etiquette board, I personally try to give realistic advice, as well as etiquette-approved advice, because what is the point in giving advice that a person can't actually use or will just ignore? Sure people ignore us all of the time, but this OP is trying to make this work and looking for options.

The OP is flat out screwed etiquette wise in this situation, if she can't get a larger room or a second room in her contracted venue. She already stated she's not going to switch her venue. There was a woman a few months ago in a similar situation and I didn't suggest she mover her venue in that thread either.

If she's stuck with the venue and the cap is a fire code, thing..... I'm willing to bet there's no way she's going to be able to B-list 6 people. She would need to get 35 declines just to accommodate the people on the A-list who already have their invitations. And then another 6 declines to invite the 6 people on the B-list (who already got verbal invitations, so it's generous to call it a B-list in the first place).

And if she decides to go the B-list route, she won't know until about 2 weeks before if she needs to take it a step further and rescind invitations because there weren't enough declines to accommodate either list.

I'm all for giving realistic advice and I completely agree with you that realistic advice is by far the best solution. No sarcasm - it is good to bring the discussion back to reality sometimes. But unless the venue is jerking her around and they can make room, in this particular case I don't really think B-listing would even work (realistically).

I agree with you 100% here. I wish she would come back and clarify some things. But if she can't even B-List I think she's just screwed.

I can't imagine being in a position to be contemplating rescinding invitations ><

theartistformerlyknownas · July 2014

Let's hope she's on the horn with the venue making a plan!

QueerFemme · July 2014

I still want to know, even without these extra six people, what are you going to do if you don't get enough declines to cover the 35 people? Are you going to call people and rescind their invitation?

PrettyGirlLost · July 2014

QueerFemme said:

I still want to know, even without these extra six people, what are you going to do if you don't get enough declines to cover the 35 people? Are you going to call people and rescind their invitation?

I'd try and rent a tent outside the venue and move the dance floor and anything else I could out there before I started rescinding invitations.

Knottie22177400 · July 2014

Earlier I stated my request for help with the original issue. The people that were already sent save the dates became my guests from that second on. As of this moment it is not a pressing issue and if it becomes one I will take care of it in a way that includes food and a seat for every guest.

Right now I am desperately trying to figure out what to do, in the most etiquette approved and possible way, about these extra relatives I have never even met. Since you are fixating on something else (I realize my fault because I included this information in the original post) I cannot spend my time on here. Thank you.

theartistformerlyknownas · July 2014

Dude we already answered that question. WTF.

PrettyGirlLost · July 2014

Knottie22177400 said:
Earlier I stated my request for help with the original issue. The people that were already sent save the dates became my guests from that second on. As of this moment it is not a pressing issue and if it becomes one I will take care of it in a way that includes food and a seat for every guest.

Right now I am desperately trying to figure out what to do, in the most etiquette approved and possible way, about these extra relatives I have never even met. Since you are fixating on something else (I realize my fault because I included this information in the original post) I cannot spend my time on here. Thank you.

Huh?!

Now I'm confused because I don't even understand what the hell your actual issue really is!

With regards to the relatives you told your mother she could invite- you invite them. It's irrelevant that you have never met them. You told Mom she could invite them, so assume she gave them a verbal invite.

Can you please clarify some details about your venue and also how over inviting by 36 people is not a pressing issue? Why are you intentionally being so vague? We aren't asking for your SSN and bank routing numbers, just more details on your venue so we can best give advice.

Also, you realize that you have to include your officiant, if you invite them, their spouse, if they have one, and any other vendors, like DJ and photographer, into your reception head count, right?

QueerFemme · July 2014

Knottie22177400 said:

Earlier I stated my request for help with the original issue. The people that were already sent save the dates became my guests from that second on. As of this moment it is not a pressing issue and if it becomes one I will take care of it in a way that includes food and a seat for every guest. Right now I am desperately trying to figure out what to do, in the most etiquette approved and possible way, about these extra relatives I have never even met. Since you are fixating on something else (I realize my fault because I included this information in the original post) I cannot spend my time on here. Thank you.

My answser to the original question about what to do with these 6 people, will depend on what you are going to do with the other 35 (or now less, that some people have declined.)

holyguacamole79 · July 2014

Knottie22177400 said:

Unfortunately I have found myself in a pretty sticky etiquette situation I hope all of you can help me out with. I will do my best to keep this short while still including all relevant information: We sent RSVPs out to our guests back in February. A couple of days after sending them out my parents asked me to include one of their cousins and aunts on the guest list. I replied that I would invite them but didn't send a STD. A couple of months later we had a meeting with the venue and found out the space was more limiting than we had first realized and that our guest list now exceeded the space by about 35 people. This was an unpleasant surprise but since our guest list was almost entirely people traveling we figured we would risk it. I realize this wasn't the most etiquette friendly way to proceed but we didn't really have much of a choice since we had sent out Save the Dates to everyone and were in pretty deep with this venue. Anyway we sent out our invitations about a month ago and hoped for the best. A couple of days ago my mom asks me about the invitation for her cousin/aunt because they haven't received it. I told her I was so sorry, I had completely forgotten about them and unfortunately we just don't have the room to invite them. What should I do now? a) Call the cousin and explain that there was a misunderstanding with the guest list. "I am sorry you were told you would be getting an invitation but unfortunately we have less space than we thought we would." b) Invite the relatives and hope for the best. Altogether this would include probably 6 more people who would definitely be coming. We have received some declines but not enough that we are in the clear yet. c) Wait until we get enough declines that we can fit all of these people and send them invites. d) Send them invites now but call and tell them we don't have enough space right now and we will let them know if there is an opening. e) Your suggestion

Well, you did allow for an option (e), which is "your suggestion". People gave their suggestions. Personally, among a-d, I think b is the only option that is not outright rude. There is a very real possibility, though, that you may have more guests than you can accommodate, and people are trying to help you mitigate this before it's too late.

theartistformerlyknownas · July 2014

I'm changing my answer. Invite whoever the fuck you want because everyone after the first 100 will be turned away at the door anyway. Problem solved. Except for how much they'll all hate you after showing up to your wedding and not being allowed inside. Maybe WW can help you with that one.

PrettyGirlLost · July 2014

lolo883 said:
I'm changing my answer. Invite whoever the fuck you want because everyone after the first 100 will be turned away at the door anyway. Problem solved. Except for how much they'll all hate you after showing up to your wedding and not being allowed inside. Maybe WW can help you with that one.

Anyone else feel like they have been taking crazy pills? Anyone?

misshart00 · July 2014

I'm extremely confused.

Maggie0829 · July 2014

PrettyGirlLost said:

I'm changing my answer. Invite whoever the fuck you want because everyone after the first 100 will be turned away at the door anyway. Problem solved. Except for how much they'll all hate you after showing up to your wedding and not being allowed inside. Maybe WW can help you with that one.
Anyone else feel like they have been taking crazy pills? Anyone?

You mean besides OP? Because I thought that everyone gave thoughtful/helpful advice for not just her initial question but for her "oh crap we are going to be over the max number no matter if we invite the 6 extra people or not" issue.

PrettyGirlLost · July 2014

Maggie0829 said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

lolo883 said:
I'm changing my answer. Invite whoever the fuck you want because everyone after the first 100 will be turned away at the door anyway. Problem solved. Except for how much they'll all hate you after showing up to your wedding and not being allowed inside. Maybe WW can help you with that one.
Anyone else feel like they have been taking crazy pills? Anyone?

You mean besides OP? Because I thought that everyone gave thoughtful/helpful advice for not just her initial question but for her "oh crap we are going to be over the max number no matter if we invite the 6 extra people or not" issue.

The cloak and dagger act makes no sense unless this numbers fuck up is all on the OP and she just doesn't want to admit it.

Or she works for the NSA.

pearlsofsteel · July 2014

lolo883 said:

Dude we already answered that question. WTF.

The ol' ask and ask and ask until you get the answer you really want to hear.

PhoneCardLady · August 2014

And this is why I am not a fan of STD's.....

mrsmagicgeek · August 2014

Math is hard, y'all.

jneen101 · August 2014

I still think we need a more detailed explanation of exactly how the venue's max numbers changed. If you have a contract or anything that says "the minimum amount of guests is _______ and the max is ________" and now they are changing that, then you just need to get them to honor your contract. But I am assuming that's not the case, and you just somehow weren't paying attention or something (your explanation was vague) so really it's all your fault and I don't even know what to tell you.

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