Am I out of line here?

carolyncobb85 · September 2014

We had a meeting with our venue and the event coordinator three weeks ago where she wanted an estimated count on food. She does not need the final number until October, so perhaps I am stressing myself out over nothing! At the same time though, knowing in advance an estimate on the food/beverage takes a weight off my shoulders for sure.

lyndausvi · September 2014

bad way to plan. Plan on everyone ordering the most expensive item. Then jump up and down when they don't and you now have extra money to spend at the HM.

lyndausvi · September 2014

carolyncobb85 said:

We had a meeting with our venue and the event coordinator three weeks ago where she wanted an estimated count on food. She does not need the final number until October, so perhaps I am stressing myself out over nothing! At the same time though, knowing in advance an estimate on the food/beverage takes a weight off my shoulders for sure.

That makes way more sense.

Most people already know, but my DH is a chef. He does banquets (weddings or otherwise) all the time. He has worked all over the country for a lot of different companies. He gets "soft" numbers (estimates) a few weeks out. He gets hard numbers 72 hours to 1 week out.

Planning any event means you often find out things at the last minute. It just goes with the territory. Just think of your standard backyard BBQ. People always tell you at the last minute they are or are not coming. Someone just plain do not show up. Weddings are no different. They are just another event. Mind you a generally more formal and expensive event, but the same things apply as any other event you host.

beethery · September 2014

indianaalum said:

banana468 said:
Honestly, while gifts aren't too be expected, I think we need to make sure that not giving anything particularly when you're a recent bride with her hand out at showers is behavior to be lauded either.
I think if many people were being honest, they WOULD admit to feeling hurt. If I just spent 200.00 on someone's wedding gift and then they came to my wedding a few weeks later and gave me nothing, I WOULD feel hurt. I'd be a liar if I said it wouldn't hurt my feelings....and I find it hard to believe nobody else on the knot would feel hurt, as well. I call BS on brides who say that wouldn't bother them! LOL

Although I know etiquette says brides can't say a word about not getting a gift from someone, it is considered good etiquette to give a gift as a wedding. Personally speaking, I'd feel like a big tool showing up at someones wedding empty handed. If I care enough to attend their wedding, I should care enough to want to give a gift to the person. JMO

If I bought somebody something expensive, that was my decision to make and I do not expect a thing in return, besides a thank you card. They don't owe me anything but a thank you card. That's it.

Sometimes people don't have enough money for a gift. Sometimes they spent money to look presentable to or travel to your event, and that was the most they could do. If you get your feelings hurt because someone didn't buy you a gift, you need to work on your priorities.

huskypuppy14 · September 2014

beethery said:

indianaalum said:

banana468 said:
Honestly, while gifts aren't too be expected, I think we need to make sure that not giving anything particularly when you're a recent bride with her hand out at showers is behavior to be lauded either.

I think if many people were being honest, they WOULD admit to feeling hurt. If I just spent 200.00 on someone's wedding gift and then they came to my wedding a few weeks later and gave me nothing, I WOULD feel hurt. I'd be a liar if I said it wouldn't hurt my feelings....and I find it hard to believe nobody else on the knot would feel hurt, as well. I call BS on brides who say that wouldn't bother them! LOL

Although I know etiquette says brides can't say a word about not getting a gift from someone, it is considered good etiquette to give a gift as a wedding. Personally speaking, I'd feel like a big tool showing up at someones wedding empty handed. If I care enough to attend their wedding, I should care enough to want to give a gift to the person. JMO

If I bought somebody something expensive, that was my decision to make and I do not expect a thing in return, besides a thank you card. They don't owe me anything but a thank you card. That's it.

Sometimes people don't have enough money for a gift. Sometimes they spent money to look presentable to or travel to your event, and that was the most they could do. If you get your feelings hurt because someone didn't buy you a gift, you need to work on your priorities.

_____________________________________________________________

I agree.

My cousin got married 8 years before me, even though we are the same age.

I went to her shower and wedding and gave her gifts for both. She didn't come to my wedding or shower and didn't get me any gifts either. It doesn't bother me at all. She has 2 kids and is a stay at home mom, she has a lot of things going on. Weddings and showers are not tit for tat.

OP, when you have an RSVP date so early you are going to get last minute changes because things change. Or people are not going to RSVP in time because they don't know. My husband works on the weekends, and he can't guarantee that he can have a single day off until about 2-3 weeks ahead of time. You definitely got bad advice from your vendor, but what is done is done.

But why are you mad that people who you know are coming didn't respond? They are coming mark them down. My sister didn't send her RSVP until the last minute, but I knew her and her husband were coming so I didn't even notice. (I did not have meal choices on the RSVP, however.)

SP29 · September 2014

huskypuppy14 said:

But why are you mad that people who you know are coming didn't respond? They are coming mark them down. My sister didn't send her RSVP until the last minute, but I knew her and her husband were coming so I didn't even notice. (I did not have meal choices on the RSVP, however.)

Because who knows how accurate that is. It seems these "known" people are known about through the grapevine.

I agree that the OPs RSVP date is too early, but people who don't RSVP is one of my big pet peeves. If you either know that YES you are coming or NO you are not coming, how hard is it to fill out the response card and put it in the mail?

I get that not everyone knows early out if they can attend or not, but why not communicate that to the B&G? "I'm sorry I haven't responded yet, but DH doesn't know his work schedule. When is the latest I can let you know?".

We had a group of people who did not RSVP (on DH's side of the family) that we had to get MIL to track down.

It's just one of those things that I feel like communicates a lack of respect.

To the OP- I would wait until October and then contact those who have not RSVP'd.

carolyncobb85 · September 2014

If you're having a buffet, fine. I wouldn't care. But when you're having a seated dinner it is obnoxious to delay your response when you know you are going to be there.

huskypuppy14 · September 2014

carolyncobb85 said:

If you're having a buffet, fine. I wouldn't care. But when you're having a seated dinner it is obnoxious to delay your response when you know you are going to be there.

It's also obnoxious to have an RSVP date 2 months before the wedding.

chibiyui · September 2014

carolyncobb85 said:
If you're having a buffet, fine. I wouldn't care. But when you're having a seated dinner it is obnoxious to delay your response when you know you are going to be there.

It's frustrating when people don't RSVP or RSVP late, but it's part of life.

Case in point. This Saturday is an everybody must work day at my job. I have an out of town wedding to attend, that I had RSVP d as attending. I am on a position where I can call my employers bluff ( I'm relatively valuable and made these plans before they changed the date of this event to this Saturday, and I'm planning on quitting after the holidays anyway). Other people do not have that luxury and would have to miss the wedding due to work.

lyndausvi · September 2014

For the record I got 4 RSVP the week of the wedding. FOUR. Everyone one of them had a postmark of 6 weeks earlier. That means the guest DID sent in the RSVP. USPS delayed their arrival.

I also had a few invites get sent back to us AFTER the RSVP date passed (which was only 10 days before the wedding). Meaning those people never received an invite to respond.

Just saying, sometimes people are asses and do not RSVP. Sometimes it's not their fault.

manateehugger · September 2014

carolyncobb85 said:

If you're having a buffet, fine. I wouldn't care. But when you're having a seated dinner it is obnoxious to delay your response when you know you are going to be there.

For some weddings where we are 99% sure we'll make it, I hold off sending the RSVP for a bit just in case work pops up and rips our plans a new one. Asking people to schedule their lives around yours 2 months out is obnoxious.

carolyncobb85 · September 2014

Ya, ya, I get it. I'm the obnoxious one. Not the people who don't send thank you cards, or don't respond to RSVPs. Why don't we just throw etiquette out the window all together? If there are so many exceptions to commonly practiced manners, why even have them in the first place? Look, I used to work in restaurants for many years. I understand that not everyone is free on weekends, and not everyone knows in advance. I have *never* had a job where I have weekends or holidays off, even now as a graduate student (I work part-time retail). I understand that there are exceptions to every rule. However, if you are aware that a last minute scheduling conflict may arise, or you will not know until a week before the wedding because of your job, why not just convey that? Is it difficult to reach out and communicate if you are truly having an issue? The bottom line is that I understand people live busy lives. I understand that sh*t happens. I know people are human and do not expect that they automatically know proper etiquette for every situation. It is simply the lack of communication and/or acknowledgment that really bothers me.

indianaalum · September 2014

carolyncobb85 said:

Right, but I'm not harping on the lagging responses of people who live far away or who are trying to coordinate schedules and what not. It is the people who I know are coming, (as they have confirmed to other people or have confirmed verbally to me). We are having a seated dinner so I need to know meal selections in order to not only give the information to the venue, but to do a cost estimate for my own sake as my fiancé and I are footing the bill for the food and bar. I don't know, perhaps I am micromanaging and/or I am expecting too much, but if someone knows they are attending, why is it difficult to check off a meal selection and put an already-stamped envelope in the mail?
And no, I do not think my guests are morons. I am just exasperated by the lack of consideration some people seem to have. I think it is rude to expect someone to hunt you down and get your RSVP when that person is already juggling a thousand other things. We should have eloped in Vegas when we had the chance!

Practically speaking, I think the issue you might be running into isn't really VIP's per se who can easily make sure they know 1 year in advance, it is more the "average" guest who might not know that much ahead of time due to work schedules or cost of travel (they might be waiting to see if flights get in their price range, for example). Sometimes people aren't allowed to request time off from work that far in advance even if they do know the date. Sometimes people need to wait until it is a little closer to know availability for things such as that. Average guests are less likely to commit to stuff too early especially if they have kids

The other important problem you might run into is people who say "yes" ahead of time, only to learn of other commitments they can' t get out (i.e. work) of close to the event so they end canceling on your last minute. It is also to your advantage for that to not happen, either, as that will waste your money. You might also get people who WANT to come, but decline simply because they know they can't get a true answer for you by the RSVP date. Hope that makes more sense now

(example for me. My good friend always had plans to come, but her husband is a mail man and literally could not request time off until last minute. It wasn't that they didn't want to come, it was simply a logistics thing for them on whether he would be allowed to travvel to come) Yes, she knew the date ahead of time, but it didn't matter in her situation. It had nothing to do with her planning ability or feelings toward me. It purely was "if job will let him off, we will come. If he won't, I will come alone" kinda deal)

The best suggestion I have is budget that EVERYONE will come, and it will be happy surprise when people deciline as that will just be money in your pocket in the end of the day.

LDay2014 · September 2014

carolyncobb85 said:

Ya, ya, I get it. I'm the obnoxious one. Not the people who don't send thank you cards, or don't respond to RSVPs. Why don't we just throw etiquette out the window all together? If there are so many exceptions to commonly practiced manners, why even have them in the first place? Look, I used to work in restaurants for many years. I understand that not everyone is free on weekends, and not everyone knows in advance. I have *never* had a job where I have weekends or holidays off, even now as a graduate student (I work part-time retail). I understand that there are exceptions to every rule. However, if you are aware that a last minute scheduling conflict may arise, or you will not know until a week before the wedding because of your job, why not just convey that? Is it difficult to reach out and communicate if you are truly having an issue? The bottom line is that I understand people live busy lives. I understand that sh*t happens. I know people are human and do not expect that they automatically know proper etiquette for every situation. It is simply the lack of communication and/or acknowledgment that really bothers me.

Then save yourself the drama and hassel, pick up the phone.

indianaalum · September 2014

carolyncobb85 said:

Yes, I completely understand job obligations and do not consider a lack of prompt response rude in that respect. Again, it is only the people I *know* are coming but who failed to send their RSVPs (and much needed meal selections) that are annoying me.

Don't be surprised when the people you "know" are coming, change their mind. It does happen.

I had a good friend constantly tell me she was coming, only to have her decline in the mail. I was shocked as I thought she was coming. In the end, she had a commitment for her son she couldn't get out of. She felt terrible but it was unpreventable. Sometimes things DO come up last minute

lyndausvi · September 2014

carolyncobb85 said:

Ya, ya, I get it. I'm the obnoxious one. Not the people who don't send thank you cards, or don't respond to RSVPs. Why don't we just throw etiquette out the window all together? If there are so many exceptions to commonly practiced manners, why even have them in the first place? Look, I used to work in restaurants for many years. I understand that not everyone is free on weekends, and not everyone knows in advance. I have *never* had a job where I have weekends or holidays off, even now as a graduate student (I work part-time retail). I understand that there are exceptions to every rule. However, if you are aware that a last minute scheduling conflict may arise, or you will not know until a week before the wedding because of your job, why not just convey that? Is it difficult to reach out and communicate if you are truly having an issue? The bottom line is that I understand people live busy lives. I understand that sh*t happens. I know people are human and do not expect that they automatically know proper etiquette for every situation. It is simply the lack of communication and/or acknowledgment that really bothers me.

You know these are all different issues right? Everyone can be wrong.

People who do not send TY piss me off.

People who make me RSVP 2 months out also piss me off.

People who did not RSVP annoyed me also.

Some people honestly think telling you in person is the RSVP. Some people are lazy, some people just do not know better. Some people are flakes, some people are just inconsiderate. Some people think they have a year to send out a TY.

You just can't control what others do. You are doing things right and keep it up.

SachaBee · September 2014

Viczaesar said:

SachaBee said:

@viczaesar, correct, but I think the OP was saying they would have liked at least a card, not a gift. I guess it's still not required but definitely "good manners" to send a card.

I don't agree. Cards are no more required than presents.

Yeah, I think I phrased that wrong...I was really just thinking that I would have sent a card, I guess. I can't imagine being invited to a nice event and not even sending a card. But if I didn't attend I probably wouldn't send a gift either. Just a card. But it's not required, it's just nice.

carolyncobb85 · September 2014

I have!

huskypuppy14 · September 2014

carolyncobb85 said:

Ya, ya, I get it. I'm the obnoxious one. Not the people who don't send thank you cards, or don't respond to RSVPs. Why don't we just throw etiquette out the window all together? If there are so many exceptions to commonly practiced manners, why even have them in the first place? Look, I used to work in restaurants for many years. I understand that not everyone is free on weekends, and not everyone knows in advance. I have *never* had a job where I have weekends or holidays off, even now as a graduate student (I work part-time retail). I understand that there are exceptions to every rule. However, if you are aware that a last minute scheduling conflict may arise, or you will not know until a week before the wedding because of your job, why not just convey that? Is it difficult to reach out and communicate if you are truly having an issue? The bottom line is that I understand people live busy lives. I understand that sh*t happens. I know people are human and do not expect that they automatically know proper etiquette for every situation. It is simply the lack of communication and/or acknowledgment that really bothers me.

Stop being so dramatic.

Those people are obnoxious too, but you didn't do yourself any favors. Again, your wedding is over a month away. Wait until October 1 and then contact everyone who hasn't responded yet.

This is life. I had a BBQ for labor day. We asked that people respond by Friday evening if they were coming or not so we made sure we had enough food. We made sure to get extra and a bunch of people showed up that I wasn't expecting. No big deal we had plenty of food, but this isn't something that is specific to weddings. It's just more annoying because a wedding is more expensive.

lyndausvi · September 2014

People as a group can be frustrating. Especially when they do not follow the same values when you come to basic manners.

The best thing to do is not let it get to you.

But you are free to vent here.

carolyncobb85 · September 2014

I guess I am a stickler for certain things. Yes, it is my problem that I have a hard time letting things go. And, really, I haven't vented these things to anyone because I do not want to stir up drama. I just want some input from people on this anonymous board. I think there are certain things that go without saying, and it surprises me that some people are unaware of them. I will also say it *really irks* me that most people's response is for me to stop expecting so much, and that some people are just rude. So, again I ask, we are supposed to just accept these behaviors? Just because something is commonly done does not make it right.

LDay2014 · September 2014

carolyncobb85 said:

I guess I am a stickler for certain things. Yes, it is my problem that I have a hard time letting things go. And, really, I haven't vented these things to anyone because I do not want to stir up drama. I just want some input from people on this anonymous board. I think there are certain things that go without saying, and it surprises me that some people are unaware of them. I will also say it *really irks* me that most people's response is for me to stop expecting so much, and that some people are just rude. So, again I ask, we are supposed to just accept these behaviors? Just because something is commonly done does not make it right.

You're right, it doesn't make it right because it's common...but what are you going to do?

With the lack of thank you card? You can call her out on it, sure...but how likely do you think she'll be to send you a thank you after you bitch her out?

With the non-RSVPers? Chew them out for not adhering to your insanely early deadline? Who knows maybe they're being passive aggressive with how early you wanted answers from them.

You can spend your time being 'right' or you can spend your time being happy. Again, as others have said, when it gets closer to and you actually NEED firm numbers pick up the phone. 'Hey, so-and-so, I'm just finalizing numbers with the caterer and noticed I hadn't received your RSVP. Are you going to be able to make it? Yes? Awesome! Do you want beef or chicken? Great! See you then!' *CLICK* drama averted.

Is it annoying? Yes.

Is it a big deal? NOPE

huskypuppy14 · September 2014

carolyncobb85 said:

I guess I am a stickler for certain things. Yes, it is my problem that I have a hard time letting things go. And, really, I haven't vented these things to anyone because I do not want to stir up drama. I just want some input from people on this anonymous board. I think there are certain things that go without saying, and it surprises me that some people are unaware of them. I will also say it *really irks* me that most people's response is for me to stop expecting so much, and that some people are just rude. So, again I ask, we are supposed to just accept these behaviors? Just because something is commonly done does not make it right.

No one is saying it was right. Many people told you the no thank you note was rude. But, you can't control anyone's actions except your own. What are you going to do? Yell at them.

My now husband and I never received a thank you noted for a wedding we went to 3 years ago. We gave them 200 dollars and they couldn't even thank us. Yes it's annoying and rude, but what are you going to do.

We were also trying to give you reasons why some people may not have RSVP'd yet.

SP29 · September 2014

Of course it does not make it right, but you cannot control how other adults act.

The best you can do is control how you act and present yourself- you follow etiquette, knowing you are always being gracious (though by requesting such an early RSVP date you are making your own etiquette blunder) and hope others may respond in the same way.

So, you sent out invitations with an RSVP date. Wait until Oct and call those who have not responded- "I need to know by Oct. 10th if you are able to attend or not". If you still have no response by that date, then they are a NO. If those people then choose to show up, it's on them if there is no where to sit and no meal to eat.

There is nothing more you can do more that than. I get it- it's hella annoying. As I said, people who don't RSVP (to any event) annoy me. I really don't care either way- but just let me know! Even if it's a, "Hey, I'm trying to get my shift changed at work, so I won't know until last minute"- cool! At least I know where you sit.

Of course you can always vent here, but at the end of the day, no you cannot change other people's rude behaviour. Present yourself and raise your children to be respectful and polite.

lyndausvi · September 2014

Unfortunately, yeah, you kind-of do have to "accept" they are being rude. Calling them out for no TY is not going to end well.

Now if a conversation comes up on TY notes, you better bet your bottom dollar I bring up how annoyed I get at not getting one. If the conversation pops up about cash bars I bring up how rude I think they are. I just do not call out individuals over stuff like that.

rajahmd · September 2014

Storytime!

My (former) best friend defriended me on FB over her wedding RSVP. She originally invited me to her wedding without my then FI (now husband), saying she would let me know if they got enough no's for him to come (basically, my FIANCE was B-listed). I waited and waited, but she never let us know. Her RSVP date, which was 7 weeks prior to the wedding, came and went without word of if I needed to RSVP for 1 or 2. Shortly after the date passed, she contacted me on FB. I informed her that I was waiting for two reasons: I didn't know how many people I was RSVPing for, and I didn't have my work schedule yet. She ignored my message and instead had her mother harass me about it the next time. I told her mother the same thing. Instead of being understanding of not knowing my work schedule that far out, she demanded an answer within the next few days. I told her that I wouldn't know by then, but she continued to demand an answer. So I told her to put me down as a "no" because I didn't want to say "yes" and then not be able to come, thus costing them money. There was no attempt to be flexible, give me more time, or even just a "well we'll put you down as a yes and you keep us updated". Nothing. Less than 30 minutes after the conversation with her mom, former best friend sent me a nasty FB message and defriended me.

Moral of the story: be understanding of your guests' schedules and be flexible. A RSVP is not worth ruining a relationship.

carolyncobb85 · September 2014

You all are absolutely right. I understand that there is nothing I can do, and that it does not help things to point out other's faux pas. I have absolutely no intention of bringing this up to anyone's face, as what is the point? I guess I just need a safe space to vent!

One thing I am surprised about, though, is that my RSVP date is considered so early. The weddings I have been to in recent years all sent out their invitations about three months in advance, and asked for a reply by date at least a 8-10 weeks before the wedding. But, as I said earlier, just because others do something doesn't make it right. Maybe this is a regional thing? I am getting married in Massachusetts in October, and believe me, if we hadn't sent out save the dates and invitations on the early side, no one would get hotel reservations because it's high tourist season for foliage watchers.

chibiyui · September 2014

carolyncobb85 said:
You all are absolutely right. I understand that there is nothing I can do, and that it does not help things to point out other's faux pas. I have absolutely no intention of bringing this up to anyone's face, as what is the point? I guess I just need a safe space to vent!
One thing I am surprised about, though, is that my RSVP date is considered so early. The weddings I have been to in recent years all sent out their invitations about three months in advance, and asked for a reply by date at least a 8-10 weeks before the wedding. But, as I said earlier, just because others do something doesn't make it right. Maybe this is a regional thing? I am getting married in Massachusetts in October, and believe me, if we hadn't sent out save the dates and invitations on the early side, no one would get hotel reservations because it's high tourist season for foliage watchers.

I hate to say this, but maybe b listing is common in your area? If I see an early RSVP like that, I assume they have a blast of invites.

lyndausvi · September 2014

STD let people know they are invited to a wedding in the future. That would let them know they need to get a hotel.

Invites got out 6-8 weeks out. I'm even okay with 10 weeks. Even if you sent them out 12 weeks, that does not mean you need to have the RSVP that far out. Nothing stops people from RSVP early, it's just those who need to let you know closer to the wedding are not inconvenienced by having an early RSVP.

Yes, I'm someone who needs to send out an RSVP 4 weeks out and yes I understand that means might have a hard time getting a hotel. I'm capable of figuring out what to do.

Viczaesar · September 2014

carolyncobb85 said:

Ya, ya, I get it. I'm the obnoxious one. Not the people who don't send thank you cards, or don't respond to RSVPs. Why don't we just throw etiquette out the window all together? If there are so many exceptions to commonly practiced manners, why even have them in the first place? Look, I used to work in restaurants for many years. I understand that not everyone is free on weekends, and not everyone knows in advance. I have *never* had a job where I have weekends or holidays off, even now as a graduate student (I work part-time retail). I understand that there are exceptions to every rule. However, if you are aware that a last minute scheduling conflict may arise, or you will not know until a week before the wedding because of your job, why not just convey that? Is it difficult to reach out and communicate if you are truly having an issue? The bottom line is that I understand people live busy lives. I understand that sh*t happens. I know people are human and do not expect that they automatically know proper etiquette for every situation. It is simply the lack of communication and/or acknowledgment that really bothers me.

Well, you're guilty of breaking the etiquette-approved timeline for invitations and RSVP deadlines, so maybe you should be careful chucking around bricks in that glass house of yours.

Pretty much everyone responding has validated you that not sending a Thank You note is rude. That doesn't mean that you're 100% in the right, however.

Am I out of line here?

Re: Am I out of line here?

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