Wedding Vows & Ceremony Discussions

Catholic Ceremony First, then a Civil One?

Has anyone had any experience with having a Catholic Ceremony without the legal portion?  I'm Catholic and my FI is not - he has never been baptized or anything. We already took a Pre-Cana class and have recently met with a priest to begin discussing our small ceremony plans. My FI is from NC and I'm from NJ, though we both live near Boston. Most of our friends, and his large family are located in NC and we fell in love with a reception venue down there. Our plan is to have a small Catholic Ceremony (just our parents/siblings) near Boston, then have a large civil ceremony/reception the following weekend in NC. 

We haven't told our priest about this "second wedding" but I wonder if we should. It's important to me that our marriage is recognized by the church, but I want our wedding day in NC (with lots of guests and dancing) to be  "our BIG day". Any ideas on this? I also realize we could simply have the wedding in NC, then get our marriage "Convalidated" by the Catholic church, but we already took the Pre Cana class and we want to plan this out the best way we can. 

*Logistically we weren't able to have a Catholic ceremony in NC, right before our beautiful reception - long story but the closest Catholic church in the area won't do a wedding on a Sunday. Another important note is that this is the first marriage for both of us.  

Any guidance is much appreciated!!

Re: Catholic Ceremony First, then a Civil One?

  • arabin said:

    Has anyone had any experience with having a Catholic Ceremony without the legal portion?  I'm Catholic and my FI is not - he has never been baptized or anything. We already took a Pre-Cana class and have recently met with a priest to begin discussing our small ceremony plans. My FI is from NC and I'm from NJ, though we both live near Boston. Most of our friends, and his large family are located in NC and we fell in love with a reception venue down there. Our plan is to have a small Catholic Ceremony (just our parents/siblings) near Boston, then have a large civil ceremony/reception the following weekend in NC. 


    We haven't told our priest about this "second wedding" but I wonder if we should. It's important to me that our marriage is recognized by the church, but I want our wedding day in NC (with lots of guests and dancing) to be  "our BIG day". Any ideas on this? I also realize we could simply have the wedding in NC, then get our marriage "Convalidated" by the Catholic church, but we already took the Pre Cana class and we want to plan this out the best way we can. 

    *Logistically we weren't able to have a Catholic ceremony in NC, right before our beautiful reception - long story but the closest Catholic church in the area won't do a wedding on a Sunday. Another important note is that this is the first marriage for both of us.  

    Any guidance is much appreciated!!
    I don't know about the Archdiocese of Boston, but here in Galveston-Houston, you are required to have the wedding also be legally binding. Also, you're going to have a VERY hard time finding a Catholic church to do your wedding on a Sunday.
  • Yea we originally had a Saturday booked in NC at the reception and a local Catholic church, but had to change it for logistical reasons - film festival in town and not a lot of hotel availability- we've had a lot of ups and downs thus far in planning. 

    The church down there we were working with briefly was going through a lot of changes (new priest and other things) and it is SUPER DUPER SMALL - like the aisle was only 10 ft long. 
  • Yea we originally had a Saturday booked in NC at the reception and a local Catholic church, but had to change it for logistical reasons - film festival in town and not a lot of hotel availability- we've had a lot of ups and downs thus far in planning. 


    The church down there we were working with briefly was going through a lot of changes (new priest and other things) and it is SUPER DUPER SMALL - like the aisle was only 10 ft long. 
    Why not get married in Boston?
  • Why not just have a big party in NC?

     I don't know of any Catholic Church that will marry you without the priest signing and filing the marriage license. Also, convalidations are for people who are married outside the church while not practicing their faith and then return to the church and wish for its blessing on their marriage. Doesn't sound like this applies to you.

    I don't see a way you can have everything you want here if you can't find a church in NC. Either do it all in NC or do it all in Boston. And please don't lie to your priest, whatever you decide.

  • As PPS said, I don't think this will work. I wasn't able to walk down the aisle without presenting our marriage license.
  • I had a feeling this would be the case - having to sign the marriage license with the Catholic priest.

    I think the odds are we'll likely have a small Catholic ceremony up here and a large reception down there. 
  • I had a feeling this would be the case - having to sign the marriage license with the Catholic priest.


    I think the odds are we'll likely have a small Catholic ceremony up here and a large reception down there. 
    I think that will be your best bet. Just have the party, there is no need for a ceremony do-over.
  • You really can't have two wedding ceremonies. Your first will be legal. It's called a PPD on TK, and there have been a ton of threads about it.

    Your wedding day and anniversary is the day you get married. Just have a big party in NC with your crowd. 
  • Just an additional note to lurkers: the Catholic Church does not look kindly upon being scheduled after you book the reception venue. Our church point blank says not to schedule anything until you have set a date with the church.
  • CMGragainCMGragain member
    First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its
    edited September 2014
    Your Catholic ceremony is your only wedding ceremony.  If your parents are going to be there, then you should go out for dinner/lunch after the ceremony.  THIS is your only wedding reception.

    If you are really so in love with the North Carolina venue, you can go ahead and use it, but NOT for a wedding reception.  Wedding receptions are held on your wedding day.  You can have a great celebration party, including dancing and dining, but don't wear a wedding dress, have "first dance", do bouquet tossing, etc.  You are not the bride and groom.  You will be the newlyweds - Mr. and Mrs. John Smith (or whatever you decide to be called).  You can wear a beautiful formal gown.

    You can have a wonderful celebration party, just not a wedding reception.  You created this situation when you booked your venue before talking to your priest.

    PS.  Once you have been legally married (in the Catholic Church) it will be impossible for you to have a legal civil ceremony.
    httpiimgurcomTCCjW0wjpg
  • I had a friend who had a Jewish ceremony with just their families and then at the reception they had a small ceremony performed by their siblings.  It was very unofficial and took place after the cocktail hour right before their first dance.  It was sweet and short but gave everyone that feel that they were seeing the actual ceremony.  Don't feel like you can't have the reception on the same day!  Some people really want to see the ceremony and other's actually try to show up late just to miss it because they really want to be at the party portion.  I've known plenty of people who do destination weddings and have a large reception after they are married because their friends were unable to attend.  Do what makes you happy! No one will be to terribly upset that they missed your ceremony.
  • kkramss said:
    I had a friend who had a Jewish ceremony with just their families and then at the reception they had a small ceremony performed by their siblings.  It was very unofficial and took place after the cocktail hour right before their first dance.  It was sweet and short but gave everyone that feel that they were seeing the actual ceremony.  Don't feel like you can't have the reception on the same day!  Some people really want to see the ceremony and other's actually try to show up late just to miss it because they really want to be at the party portion.  I've known plenty of people who do destination weddings and have a large reception after they are married because their friends were unable to attend.  Do what makes you happy! No one will be to terribly upset that they missed your ceremony.
    image

    kkramss.  If I'm going to get dressed up, purchase a gift, and take time out of my day to celebrate you, I had better not be getting sloppy seconds.  I could maybe be okay with a reception at a later date, but that needs to be just a reception / party.  There is no need to "re-do" anything. 
  • Why not just have a big party in NC?

     I don't know of any Catholic Church that will marry you without the priest signing and filing the marriage license. Also, convalidations are for people who are married outside the church while not practicing their faith and then return to the church and wish for its blessing on their marriage. Doesn't sound like this applies to you.

    I don't see a way you can have everything you want here if you can't find a church in NC. Either do it all in NC or do it all in Boston. And please don't lie to your priest, whatever you decide.

    actually...it's pretty common, especially if you are from out of state. I would recommend asking the priest marrying you, and making it clear it's just the paperwork you plan to file, and you will not consider yourself married until after the church ceremony. 

    I asked the church if they would be ok if we took care of the "legal" side of the marriage a week or two in advance of our wedding. We live in Virginia, and they require a decent amount of paperwork to transfer out of state licenses into the state. The state we are marrying in also requires both people to show up, in person for the license, and then wait at least 3 days before the ceremony. Logistically, that wont work as we only plan to come into town 2 days ahead of the wedding. 

    The church said it was absolutely no problem at all for us to be legally married shortly before the Catholic ceremony as long as we recognized we weren't "really" married yet. My brother did the license for his marriage 6 months in advance because his FI was foreign and her visa would otherwise expire (plus it had to be done in their state of residence to meet immigration requirements, and the church ceremony was across the country). 

    I'd recommend avoiding the co-validation approach though. I've heard from a number of people it can be a nightmare in some parishes. I'd also avoid 2 ceremonies. Just have a party down in NC, and don't have a second ceremony. People will still bring gifts and it'll be fun, but having 2 ceremonies just cheapens the main, church one. 
  • erinemm said:



    Why not just have a big party in NC?

     I don't know of any Catholic Church that will marry you without the priest signing and filing the marriage license. Also, convalidations are for people who are married outside the church while not practicing their faith and then return to the church and wish for its blessing on their marriage. Doesn't sound like this applies to you.

    I don't see a way you can have everything you want here if you can't find a church in NC. Either do it all in NC or do it all in Boston. And please don't lie to your priest, whatever you decide.


    actually...it's pretty common, especially if you are from out of state. I would recommend asking the priest marrying you, and making it clear it's just the paperwork you plan to file, and you will not consider yourself married until after the church ceremony. 

    I asked the church if they would be ok if we took care of the "legal" side of the marriage a week or two in advance of our wedding. We live in Virginia, and they require a decent amount of paperwork to transfer out of state licenses into the state. The state we are marrying in also requires both people to show up, in person for the license, and then wait at least 3 days before the ceremony. Logistically, that wont work as we only plan to come into town 2 days ahead of the wedding. 

    The church said it was absolutely no problem at all for us to be legally married shortly before the Catholic ceremony as long as we recognized we weren't "really" married yet. My brother did the license for his marriage 6 months in advance because his FI was foreign and her visa would otherwise expire (plus it had to be done in their state of residence to meet immigration requirements, and the church ceremony was across the country). 

    I'd recommend avoiding the co-validation approach though. I've heard from a number of people it can be a nightmare in some parishes. I'd also avoid 2 ceremonies. Just have a party down in NC, and don't have a second ceremony. People will still bring gifts and it'll be fun, but having 2 ceremonies just cheapens the main, church one. 


    What you're mentioning is having the legal ceremony first. The OP mentioned doing the Catholic ceremony first. I can't see the Church being OK with that. What's stopping you from not following through with the legal aspect of you did this? I imagine the Church could get in trouble if they did this.
  • I'm not Catholic but I feel like lying to a priest is never the right idea.
  • kkramss said:
    I had a friend who had a Jewish ceremony with just their families and then at the reception they had a small ceremony performed by their siblings.  It was very unofficial and took place after the cocktail hour right before their first dance.  It was sweet and short but gave everyone that feel that they were seeing the actual ceremony.  Don't feel like you can't have the reception on the same day!  Some people really want to see the ceremony and other's actually try to show up late just to miss it because they really want to be at the party portion.  I've known plenty of people who do destination weddings and have a large reception after they are married because their friends were unable to attend.  Do what makes you happy! No one will be to terribly upset that they missed your ceremony.
    The bolded is incorrect.  Many people you would otherwise invite will be terribly upset to find that they missed the ceremony because you "did what makes you happy" and set things up in a way that excluded them.

    If you want to invite guests to your wedding, whatever you do, lose "Do what makes you happy."  Rather, do what makes you happy while taking the needs of all those present into consideration throughout the process of planning your wedding.  And if doing what makes you happy won't make anyone else happy, at the least consider dropping it altogether.
  • arabin said:
    Has anyone had any experience with having a Catholic Ceremony without the legal portion?  I'm Catholic and my FI is not - he has never been baptized or anything. We already took a Pre-Cana class and have recently met with a priest to begin discussing our small ceremony plans. My FI is from NC and I'm from NJ, though we both live near Boston. Most of our friends, and his large family are located in NC and we fell in love with a reception venue down there. Our plan is to have a small Catholic Ceremony (just our parents/siblings) near Boston, then have a large civil ceremony/reception the following weekend in NC. 

    We haven't told our priest about this "second wedding" but I wonder if we should. It's important to me that our marriage is recognized by the church, but I want our wedding day in NC (with lots of guests and dancing) to be  "our BIG day". Any ideas on this? I also realize we could simply have the wedding in NC, then get our marriage "Convalidated" by the Catholic church, but we already took the Pre Cana class and we want to plan this out the best way we can. 

    *Logistically we weren't able to have a Catholic ceremony in NC, right before our beautiful reception - long story but the closest Catholic church in the area won't do a wedding on a Sunday. Another important note is that this is the first marriage for both of us.  

    Any guidance is much appreciated!!
     
    I think you should do the bolded section
  • erinemm said:

    Why not just have a big party in NC?

     I don't know of any Catholic Church that will marry you without the priest signing and filing the marriage license. Also, convalidations are for people who are married outside the church while not practicing their faith and then return to the church and wish for its blessing on their marriage. Doesn't sound like this applies to you.

    I don't see a way you can have everything you want here if you can't find a church in NC. Either do it all in NC or do it all in Boston. And please don't lie to your priest, whatever you decide.

    actually...it's pretty common, especially if you are from out of state. I would recommend asking the priest marrying you, and making it clear it's just the paperwork you plan to file, and you will not consider yourself married until after the church ceremony. 

    I asked the church if they would be ok if we took care of the "legal" side of the marriage a week or two in advance of our wedding. We live in Virginia, and they require a decent amount of paperwork to transfer out of state licenses into the state. The state we are marrying in also requires both people to show up, in person for the license, and then wait at least 3 days before the ceremony. Logistically, that wont work as we only plan to come into town 2 days ahead of the wedding. 

    The church said it was absolutely no problem at all for us to be legally married shortly before the Catholic ceremony as long as we recognized we weren't "really" married yet. My brother did the license for his marriage 6 months in advance because his FI was foreign and her visa would otherwise expire (plus it had to be done in their state of residence to meet immigration requirements, and the church ceremony was across the country). 

    I'd recommend avoiding the co-validation approach though. I've heard from a number of people it can be a nightmare in some parishes. I'd also avoid 2 ceremonies. Just have a party down in NC, and don't have a second ceremony. People will still bring gifts and it'll be fun, but having 2 ceremonies just cheapens the main, church one. 
    Pretty sure your case is not going to reflect the response of the majority of priests/parishes/churches. I'm also wondering, since this has come up before, if the church you chose is truly Roman Catholic. There are several 'catholic' groups not recognized by either the Vatican or the Orthodox church, and though I really don't fully understand all the differences, the Catholic ladies who frequent these boards have pointed out that they do not fulfill RCC requirements for the sacrament.

    Honestly, though, why have a fake wedding in another state just because you are unwilling to follow that state's laws to get a marriage license? I mean, because you weren't willing to spend one extra day, your guests are not going to see you get married because you'll already be married. Regardless of what you claim the church says.
    image
  • artbyallie--yes, it is truly roman catholic, part of the archdiocese of Detroit, and one of the more prominent churches in the area. 

    Your statement is a bit snarky--not all Catholic Churches are as "by the books" as you seem to think. Allowing for case-by-case exceptions for people who live out of state and can't take more time off work without losing their jobs, or are dealing with very complicated immigration issues which if not handled correctly, could lead to one person being denied entry into the US permanently, doesn't mean they're not roman catholic. It just means they follow Jesus' teachings closely and show empathy and love for their fellow humans. 

    I am guessing you likely come from a more conservative parish or diocese, but trust me, many RCC are not like that.

  • flantasticflantastic member
    First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its
    edited September 2014
    erinemm said:
    artbyallie--yes, it is truly roman catholic, part of the archdiocese of Detroit, and one of the more prominent churches in the area. 

    Your statement is a bit snarky--not all Catholic Churches are as "by the books" as you seem to think. Allowing for case-by-case exceptions for people who live out of state and can't take more time off work without losing their jobs, or are dealing with very complicated immigration issues which if not handled correctly, could lead to one person being denied entry into the US permanently, doesn't mean they're not roman catholic. It just means they follow Jesus' teachings closely and show empathy and love for their fellow humans. 

    I am guessing you likely come from a more conservative parish or diocese, but trust me, many RCC are not like that.

    These are not the reasons you gave, though. The reason you gave was that you have more family down there and you fell in love with a venue. I work for a RC parish and would try to work with you if you fell into the situations described in the bolded, but not if you came to me and said what you said in your OP.

    FI and I just made it work to get our marriage license - where he took off part of a Friday and we made the trip to the city where we're getting married (my hometown), so that we could get to the county clerk's office by 4:30 and get our marriage license within the required time frame pre-wedding. We wanted to get married in the church where I grew up (the venue we fell in love with, in a sense), so we knew that the consequences of that decision were to find a way to get the appropriate legal documentation.

    Edit - noted that you are not the OP. However, if the above is truly your situation, no need to get all defensive with @artbyallie, and no need to advise OP to make the church work around her for no good reason.

  • Erikan73 said:
    arabin said:
    Has anyone had any experience with having a Catholic Ceremony without the legal portion?  I'm Catholic and my FI is not - he has never been baptized or anything. We already took a Pre-Cana class and have recently met with a priest to begin discussing our small ceremony plans. My FI is from NC and I'm from NJ, though we both live near Boston. Most of our friends, and his large family are located in NC and we fell in love with a reception venue down there. Our plan is to have a small Catholic Ceremony (just our parents/siblings) near Boston, then have a large civil ceremony/reception the following weekend in NC. 

    We haven't told our priest about this "second wedding" but I wonder if we should. It's important to me that our marriage is recognized by the church, but I want our wedding day in NC (with lots of guests and dancing) to be  "our BIG day". Any ideas on this? I also realize we could simply have the wedding in NC, then get our marriage "Convalidated" by the Catholic church, but we already took the Pre Cana class and we want to plan this out the best way we can. 

    *Logistically we weren't able to have a Catholic ceremony in NC, right before our beautiful reception - long story but the closest Catholic church in the area won't do a wedding on a Sunday. Another important note is that this is the first marriage for both of us.  

    Any guidance is much appreciated!!
     
    I think you should do the bolded section
    That might not be as easy as it sounds.  A convalidation is for a couple who is already married (whether it be in another church or in a civil court), and who was not open to the idea of a Catholic marriage at the time.  Preparations for a convalidation involve talking with the priest about why they are now ready for a Catholic Marriage.

    The OP is already going through Pre-Cana, so they really aren't a candidate for convalidation.

    People often forget that the Catholic wedding is the most important part of this celebration, NOT the reception.  All churches I know have a strict policy of not setting a date until you have come to an agreement with the church.  For example, here is the exact wording of one church's website:  "My fiance and I are newly engaged and want to get ahead and book our date for the reception; how soon can we do this?  Before you book any events or services, contact the Church first to inquire into Marriage preparation, available wedding dates, and other necessary details.  The Church is to be your first and most important phone call or inquiry; not the hotel, travel agent, restaurant, caterer, etc.  We are not responsible for deposits that have to be cancelled because a couple did not contact us first before booking a venue or service."

  • erinemm said:

    artbyallie--yes, it is truly roman catholic, part of the archdiocese of Detroit, and one of the more prominent churches in the area. 

    Your statement is a bit snarky--not all Catholic Churches are as "by the books" as you seem to think. Allowing for case-by-case exceptions for people who live out of state and can't take more time off work without losing their jobs, or are dealing with very complicated immigration issues which if not handled correctly, could lead to one person being denied entry into the US permanently, doesn't mean they're not roman catholic. It just means they follow Jesus' teachings closely and show empathy and love for their fellow humans. 

    I am guessing you likely come from a more conservative parish or diocese, but trust me, many RCC are not like that.


    These are not the reasons you gave, though. The reason you gave was that you have more family down there and you fell in love with a venue. I work for a RC parish and would try to work with you if you fell into the situations described in the bolded, but not if you came to me and said what you said in your OP.

    FI and I just made it work to get our marriage license - where he took off part of a Friday and we made the trip to the city where we're getting married (my hometown), so that we could get to the county clerk's office by 4:30 and get our marriage license within the required time frame pre-wedding. We wanted to get married in the church where I grew up (the venue we fell in love with, in a sense), so we knew that the consequences of that decision were to find a way to get the appropriate legal documentation.

    Edit - noted that you are not the OP. However, if the above is truly your situation, no need to get all defensive with @artbyallie, and no need to advise OP to make the church work around her for no good reason.



    But the OP wants to do the religious part first. I don't know of any RC Church that would go for that ( officiating a non legally binding Union).
  • @erinemm, I am not Catholic at all. I attend a Baptist church, though my beliefs on the whole probably align more closely with more liberal Protestant branches.

    I was not making a snarky comment. I have just seen many many brides posting about trying to have Catholic weddings and running into difficulties, so I don't think it's wise of you to tell other brides that there are workarounds when those may not happen in many or even most situations. And I frankly still don't understand why you wouldn't just take the extra day and have one fully legitimate wedding.

    I generally defer to banana and sarah to answer questions regarding the Church, as they are both very knowledgeable.
    image
  • erinemm,
    I don't quite get what you & your husband were able to do.  I'm not trying to be difficult / snarky, but I'm curious.  (I'm also still fighting a sinus infection, so my thinking abilities aren't the best right now.)  And I know the Church is willing to work with couples who have immigration / visa issues.  My experience with the Catholic Church is that they are NOT as willing to work with couples who plan the reception first and expect the church to be available when they want it. 
  • sarahbear31: all I'm talking about is doing the marriage license ahead of the catholic ceremony. E.G. a week before my actual wedding, having a civil ceremony (in this case, the officiant, and 2 friends) sign the license. It's something you have to ask about though, since priest to priest and church to church will have different rules. The state we're getting married in (Michigan) has a 3 day wait until licenses can be signed. So ideally yes, we'd both come into town on Wednesday and pick up the license ahead of the Saturday ceremony, but that is not an option for me at work since I'm restricted to only a certain number of days off during that time of year. Plus VA just has issues with recognizing out of state marriages (hopefully, once gay marriage is sorted out, that issue will go away.)

    And yes, you are correct on ceremony/venue, which I included in my original post, where I disagreed with the OP's reasoning for delaying the civil ceremony. I don't agree with having more than one wedding. It's just the paperwork and ceremony can be split apart for valid reasons now-a-days. 
  • erinemm, thanks for the clarification!  I think just about all states have a 3 day waiting period (I know we do here in Texas, too).  But, we live and got married in Texas, so it was no big deal. 
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