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doglover1992 · January 2015

Holy crap, I put in paragraphs! That is a huge text block.....

artbyallie · January 2015

KateAllenNJoshCallaway said:

Hi everyone, so I feel I need to vent a little because I don't want to drag my two lovely sweet bridesmaids/besties into drama with my MOH and other bridesmaid (they're my cousins and they are sisters) and I am hoping I can talk this out with the Knot community instead of creating inter-group drama. SO ANYWAY... I am at such a point of frustration that I'm ready to tear out my hair! I got engaged last February (on Valentines Day ) and I immediately picked out my bridal party (mistake #1, I know... Should have come here first!).

You're right, and I'm going to try breaking this into paragraphs. Kudos for trying to do so; not sure why TK ate them.

They were all ecstatic for me when I asked them to be bridesmaids and couldn't wait to be a part of the big day. Let's call them #1, #2, #3, and #4 from here on out..... #1 is my MOH, cousin, and probably the one who knows me best and has known me the longest. Normally we get along fantastically, but she is emotionally needy (and I have recently discovered...) super selfish. She's a couple years younger than me. #2 is her younger sister by a year, and a more vociferous and self centered version of #1.... #3 is a close childhood friend and I couldn't see my wedding without her in it! She's organized, energetic, charismatic, and I have no issues with her because she's been there for my every step of the way and has even offered to talk to #1&2 for me when she found out about the alluded-to shenanigans. #4 is a wonderful college friend of mine who moved away after graduation and has kept in touch for the past 9 months via Skype, texting, etc. She's my only long-distance BM and she's even flying up soon for the group dress fitting and to visit with me for a couple days!

We don't really need the backstory here, but okay.

Okay, now to get to the shenanigans part..... It all started with the engagement party. I asked everyone two months before the date I had in mind if they were all free or had any conflicts, all of them gave a resounding nope! They'd all be there!

Did you throw your own engagement party?

Invitations were sent, plans made, and obligations solidified and suddenly the week before the party I get a text from #1 complaining that her boyfriend has a friend that's getting married last minute and she's going to their wedding instead because my function is "just an engagement party". Wow. After a long texting exchange (she's not fond of phone conversations) we come to the understanding that she's the MOH, she really really should be there. And she already made a commitment anyway. So she and #2 will come to the party and boyfriend will do his thing at the spur of the moment wedding. Ok. Then, the MORNING OF the party, while #4 and I are arranging flowers, and my FH and his groomsman are setting up tables I get snarky texts in response to my inquiry about when they're getting there. The party starts in a few hours, and they'd agreed to come early to help my poor mom with some food prep. After another texting exchange they inform me that they're going to be late because they were at a community event with their parents and didn't want to leave so early. Fine, whatever. They show up late to the party and plop down in their seats, eat some food and play a lawn game, then leave after only about 2 hours. Way before the party ends. Offering absolutely no help.

Generally that's what a party guest does. They were under no obligation to help.

The party proceeds and wraps up nicely, with non-wedding party individuals even helping out me and the rest of the group to clean up...... Fast forward a couple months (with no explanations, apologies, and minimal to no interactions from #1&2) and I run into them at the county fair. #2 exchanges minimal pleasantries and vanishes, and I attempt to have a heart to heart with #1.... I politely ask if the pressures of MOH are too much for her, and tell her it's okay to back out. I won't be hurt, I just don't want to argue with her during the duration of my engagement.

This was entirely inappropriate and a pretty rude thing to do. You were trying to kick her out. There is no 'pressure' in being a MOH as the only thing she must do is stand beside you wearing the agreed-upon dress (that you hopefully asked her budget for before picking).

She ardently swears that she's so honored and excited to be MOH and will try harder. She aggrees that #3 can plan the Bachlorette party because she's under 21 and #1 will plan the shower.

Neither she nor you get to assign these tasks. Parties are a gift offered by the host.

Okay, second chance granted. Fast forward four months. I am picking out my dress with mom, gma, and MOH decides she can show up after all because her previous engagement was moved. Okay, brownie points gained. Things carry on normally for a few more months with a few visits here and there with each of the girls. #1 contributes to some planning via Pinterest. Most of the planning is solo, and that's no biggie to me. #1 and #2 complain about the possible dresses I picked out even though they are under $70. They want to go to a thrift shop instead.

Guess this means you didn't ask their budgets individually beforehand.

Fast forward to last week.... #1 alludes to some big development in her life, I ask but she won't tell me "it's a secret, for now at least". I ask #2 and find out she is not engaged (what I assumed might have happened), but that she had found just "the cutest" wedding dress and bought it the other day. Out of pocket, in cash. She still has the nerve to ask me if I've reconsidered bridesmaid dress options.

Not your business what she spends her money on.

Fast forward to now, a little under 6 months from the wedding. We have a girls day, luncheon, and dress fitting planned. This has been planned for a month and a half, and I have paid for all the expenses besides the dress they will eventually need to buy. #1 feigns excitement when I talk about how excited I am that all four will be together and we can have a fun day, then complains about not being able to make it to a parent's aquantance's birthday party because of my girls day..... Gee thanks, that's nice. Her words: "I was hoping to be able to go" me: "oh sorry! I didn't know, now I feel bad" her: "no don't, it's fine". Meanwhile #2 is rapidly changing her plans for arrival to our girls day, not sure if she can be on time for the fitting appointment, and complaining that that's the day she usually visits with her boyfriend.... *sigh* #3 is giddily making plans with me and cheering me up, and #4 is flying here from a state away just to be a part of it. So.... I'm frustrated, feeling hurt, and also feeling like I'm a huge inconvenience to others even though I feel I haven't asked that much..... What would you do? I don't really want to "fire" them because I don't want more family drama, but I have two other ladies in my life that are jumping at the chance to help and they're not even in the wedding party. Any thoughts? Words of wisdom? Help me please!

Kicking anyone out of your wedding is a friendship-ending move. Stop expecting so much of them and treat them like the beloved friends they hopefully are (isn't that why you want to honor them by asking them to stand at your side when you get married?).

Step away from the wedding movies and realize you don't need group luncheons and fittings and parties upon parties.

erinlin25 · January 2015

KateAllenNJoshCallaway said:

Hi everyone, so I feel I need to vent a little because I don't want to drag my two lovely sweet bridesmaids/besties into drama with my MOH and other bridesmaid (they're my cousins and they are sisters) and I am hoping I can talk this out with the Knot community instead of creating inter-group drama. SO ANYWAY... I am at such a point of frustration that I'm ready to tear out my hair! I got engaged last February (on Valentines Day ) and I immediately picked out my bridal party (mistake #1, I know... Should have come here first!). They were all ecstatic for me when I asked them to be bridesmaids and couldn't wait to be a part of the big day. Let's call them #1, #2, #3, and #4 from here on out..... #1 is my MOH, cousin, and probably the one who knows me best and has known me the longest. Normally we get along fantastically, but she is emotionally needy (and I have recently discovered...) super selfish. She's a couple years younger than me. #2 is her younger sister by a year, and a more vociferous and self centered version of #1.... #3 is a close childhood friend and I couldn't see my wedding without her in it! She's organized, energetic, charismatic, and I have no issues with her because she's been there for my every step of the way and has even offered to talk to #1&2 for me when she found out about the alluded-to shenanigans. #4 is a wonderful college friend of mine who moved away after graduation and has kept in touch for the past 9 months via Skype, texting, etc. She's my only long-distance BM and she's even flying up soon for the group dress fitting and to visit with me for a couple days! Okay, now to get to the shenanigans part..... It all started with the engagement party. I asked everyone two months before the date I had in mind if they were all free or had any conflicts, all of them gave a resounding nope! They'd all be there! Invitations were sent, plans made, and obligations solidified and suddenly the week before the party I get a text from #1 complaining that her boyfriend has a friend that's getting married last minute and she's going to their wedding instead because my function is "just an engagement party". Wow. After a long texting exchange (she's not fond of phone conversations) we come to the understanding that she's the MOH, she really really should be there. And she already made a commitment anyway. So she and #2 will come to the party and boyfriend will do his thing at the spur of the moment wedding. Ok. Then, the MORNING OF the party, while #4 and I are arranging flowers, and my FH and his groomsman are setting up tables I get snarky texts in response to my inquiry about when they're getting there. The party starts in a few hours, and they'd agreed to come early to help my poor mom with some food prep. After another texting exchange they inform me that they're going to be late because they were at a community event with their parents and didn't want to leave so early. Fine, whatever. They show up late to the party and plop down in their seats, eat some food and play a lawn game, then leave after only about 2 hours. Way before the party ends. Offering absolutely no help. The party proceeds and wraps up nicely, with non-wedding party individuals even helping out me and the rest of the group to clean up...... Fast forward a couple months (with no explanations, apologies, and minimal to no interactions from #1&2) and I run into them at the county fair. #2 exchanges minimal pleasantries and vanishes, and I attempt to have a heart to heart with #1.... I politely ask if the pressures of MOH are too much for her, and tell her it's okay to back out. I won't be hurt, I just don't want to argue with her during the duration of my engagement. She ardently swears that she's so honored and excited to be MOH and will try harder. She aggrees that #3 can plan the Bachlorette party because she's under 21 and #1 will plan the shower. Okay, second chance granted. Fast forward four months. I am picking out my dress with mom, gma, and MOH decides she can show up after all because her previous engagement was moved. Okay, brownie points gained. Things carry on normally for a few more months with a few visits here and there with each of the girls. #1 contributes to some planning via Pinterest. Most of the planning is solo, and that's no biggie to me. #1 and #2 complain about the possible dresses I picked out even though they are under $70. They want to go to a thrift shop instead. Fast forward to last week.... #1 alludes to some big development in her life, I ask but she won't tell me "it's a secret, for now at least". I ask #2 and find out she is not engaged (what I assumed might have happened), but that she had found just "the cutest" wedding dress and bought it the other day. Out of pocket, in cash. She still has the nerve to ask me if I've reconsidered bridesmaid dress options. Fast forward to now, a little under 6 months from the wedding. We have a girls day, luncheon, and dress fitting planned. This has been planned for a month and a half, and I have paid for all the expenses besides the dress they will eventually need to buy. #1 feigns excitement when I talk about how excited I am that all four will be together and we can have a fun day, then complains about not being able to make it to a parent's aquantance's birthday party because of my girls day..... Gee thanks, that's nice. Her words: "I was hoping to be able to go" me: "oh sorry! I didn't know, now I feel bad" her: "no don't, it's fine". Meanwhile #2 is rapidly changing her plans for arrival to our girls day, not sure if she can be on time for the fitting appointment, and complaining that that's the day she usually visits with her boyfriend.... *sigh* #3 is giddily making plans with me and cheering me up, and #4 is flying here from a state away just to be a part of it. So.... I'm frustrated, feeling hurt, and also feeling like I'm a huge inconvenience to others even though I feel I haven't asked that much..... What would you do? I don't really want to "fire" them because I don't want more family drama, but I have two other ladies in my life that are jumping at the chance to help and they're not even in the wedding party. Any thoughts? Words of wisdom? Help me please!

OK there is a lot going on here but I will try to hit some main points. Please remember that these girls are your FRIENDS/FAMILY... they are not your slaves. I know you are going to eat/breath/sleep wedding excitement 24/7 and you should..it is your wedding (put please do not make it the center of your life right now--even you will need a wedding planning break)! Your bridesmaids/MOH however will not and should not. This is your wedding, not theirs. Yes, you will occasionally get a friend who is just as excited about your wedding 24/7 as you are, but that is not the norm. Please remember they have lives to live and your wedding is not their #1 priority until the wedding day.

Lose the idea of bridesmaid DUTIES-- the only thing they need to do is order the dress you picked out (given you asked and respected their budget, which it sounds like you did) and show up on your wedding day wearing said dress, preferably sober.

They do not have to attend your engagement party...and they definitely do not have to help clean up after it. Whoever hosted the party is responsible for that. Now if they OFFERED and bailed, that is a different story. Be annoyed, but get over that and move on. It is now in the past. They had other obligations and you should be happy they made time to come at all.

They do not have host a bridal shower or bachelorette party--those are gifts and are not mandatory. If someone offers to host, fabulous, but it is on their dime and their time and they are not required to be involved what-so-ever. They do not even need to attend the parties if they can not make it.

They do not have to attend dress fittings/girls day unless they WANT to and CAN. Sometimes even when things are planned, other things come up--maybe it is last minute, but they still have the right to pick and choose what they do with their time and money. Just because you were not their priority on that given day does not mean they do not care about your or your wedding. You and your wedding will/should be their priority on your Wedding Day.

You do not get to judge what they spend their money on. If the girl found a wedding dress she loves and chose to buy it at that time, it is her money and her choice.

So BREATHE girl. Remember they are your friends. If you kick them out or go bridezilla on them making them do things for you and your wedding it will end/damage the friendships. No one wants to be a slave and be forced to do things for someone else. Let it happen naturally and you and them will all be much happier. You don't pick your bridesmaids/MOH based off you will do the most for you. You pick them because they are the nearest to you.

Enjoy wedding planning and don't stress the small stuff. This should be a fun process. You can of course ask for help and if they can manage it, I'm sure they will help--but don't forget they are not obligated to.

EDIT: as far as the bridesmaid dresses go: Ask their budget; pick a dress in said budget. Tell them what/where and by when it needs to be ordered. OR pick a color and say pick any dress in this color (give them a color swatch). If one or all can go dress shopping to look at some options, great. If they cannot make the dress shopping day give them details and how to go about ordering once you pick a dress.

doglover1992 · January 2015

No, I didn’t throw my own engagement party. My mom threw it for us, and she asked the wedding party to help, which they agreed to immediately and with no argument. Only later did it become a problem for two of them, when there was something “more fun” to do instead. A bunch of our engagement party guests event commented about how tacky their behavior was just coming for free food basically and then taking off...

I also asked each about their budgets, to which all responded except one. My mom even offered to buy her dress, she just doesn’t like the idea. (sorry, the post was long enough as-is!)

Never did I say I was kicking anyone out, actually I specifically said I DIDNT want to kick them out. The whole point of this is looking for some advice to fix the problem. And I’m NOT supposed to have heartfelt talks when there’s a problem/I get my feelings hurt? hmm....

So they get to act insensitive and not act like friends (family, actually) and I’m not allowed to be hurt by it... again, hmmm, questioning the advice here. They used to be very close to me, but their attitudes toward me have changed drastically in the last 9 months. There’s no reason for that...

Who doesn’t want to be part of a fun (and free) day anyway?? It’s not like I said you HAVE to come be at my beck and call and attend every event or I’m kicking you out, these were all things agreed upon originally which became a problem right beforehand....

doglover1992 · January 2015

Thanks for the reality check, and yes it's the bailing out thing that is the main problem here. They are always excited and wanting it do wedding planning things, so we make plans. And then they bail. If that whole cycle could stop I wouldn't be so frustrated by far.

erinlin25 · January 2015

doglover1992 said:

No, I didn’t throw my own engagement party. My mom threw it for us, and she asked the wedding party to help, which they agreed to immediately and with no argument. Only later did it become a problem for two of them, when there was something “more fun” to do instead. A bunch of our engagement party guests event commented about how tacky their behavior was just coming for free food basically and then taking off...

I also asked each about their budgets, to which all responded except one. My mom even offered to buy her dress, she just doesn’t like the idea. (sorry, the post was long enough as-is!)

Never did I say I was kicking anyone out, actually I specifically said I DIDNT want to kick them out. The whole point of this is looking for some advice to fix the problem. And I’m NOT supposed to have heartfelt talks when there’s a problem/I get my feelings hurt? hmm....

So they get to act insensitive and not act like friends (family, actually) and I’m not allowed to be hurt by it... again, hmmm, questioning the advice here. They used to be very close to me, but their attitudes toward me have changed drastically in the last 9 months. There’s no reason for that...

Who doesn’t want to be part of a fun (and free) day anyway?? It’s not like I said you HAVE to come be at my beck and call and attend every event or I’m kicking you out, these were all things agreed upon originally which became a problem right beforehand....

I would definitely be hurt/annoyed if it was something they agreed to and then bailed--I said that in my original response too. It sucks, I do not deny that. Your first post had a lot of "they did not do this and they did not do that... and they spent this and they picked this event over me..." We can only respond to the info given. We don't know the whole story, only what you tell us. We are trying to help you and see it from a different perspective.

Talk to them as friends, not bridesmaids. If #1 in deed did break off an engagement she is probably hurting now and especially does not want to be involved in day to day wedding talk/planning with you (it is probably hard to see you in wedding bliss right now). Maybe ask her to lunch and see if she needs anything? Don't talk about your wedding. Maybe she does not want to bring you down from your wedding high so is choosing not to go into detail with you right now and that is fine. Offer to be a friend. Call her. Don't text everything (it can be taken out of context).

Is a free day with your friends fun, hell yes! I loved going dress shopping and to lunch with my friends when they got married as they did for me when I got married. But, not everyone can do it. It is not fun for everyone. Some people don't like trying on clothes with everyone looking at them.

One of my SIL's (a bridesmaid) chose studying for a test weeks away on both my shower and bachelorette party. MIL made her to come to the shower, where she pretty much sulked in the corner, ate her lunch and finally went to the car to study. I still enjoyed my shower 110%. She did not come to the bachelorette party, cool I did not have to worry about her having fun or not. When all my other bridesmaids got ready with me and spent the wedding day with me, she showed up to get her hair done and then met us later at the venue. Did not ruin my day one bit. She showed up in her dress, looked gorgeous, stood next to me, smiled for some pictures and then had fun at the wedding. Hanging out with the girls is not her idea of fun. That is OK.

Whether it is spending time with their boyfriend or a family acquaintance birthday party maybe they do have to change their priority that day. They cannot be in two places at once. Is it disappointing sure, but is it worth ruining your day and wedding experience? NO! Would it be nice if they could all be there, yes...but If they come and are in a bad mood because they felt obligated to be there they probably will not be fun to be around and in return you will not have fun either. Have fun with the friends that are there for you! Focus on the positive, not the negative.

Whoever goes dress shopping, have fun and pick a dress. Get their opinions, but ultimately pick what fits your vision. Keep in mind their opinions but do not feel like yo have to make everyone 100% happy--probably will not happen. For the girls who cannot go shopping, find out if there are any "deal breakers" fit wise (strapless, etc) that you should try to avoid. End of the day they are paying for the dress so should be something they are not uncomfortable in. They had the option to go and give their input, try on things they liked, etc but they chose not to so you ultimately get to say this the dress we picked, get fitted and have it ordered by this date. if they do not do it, then they are not in the wedding anymore. OR you can let them all pick a dress in a certain color but all be different.

I am sorry they are being difficult, but I also think you are letting all of these negative things build up and its making your feelings towards them worse. Focus on those that can be there and want to help you above and beyond. Not everyone will be as excited about your wedding as you are, and that is OK. It does not make them a bad friend/bridesmaid/MOH.

erinlin25 · January 2015

DD... wow, I am so glad I took time to read your post and respond. Sorry you did not get the answer you wanted to hear. Hope you have fun dress shopping with your friends.

ShesSoCold · January 2015

doglover1992 said:

Thanks for the reality check, and yes it's the bailing out thing that is the main problem here. They are always excited and wanting it do wedding planning things, so we make plans. And then they bail. If that whole cycle could stop I wouldn't be so frustrated by far.

Maybe they're not that excited at all but do t want to tell you. You're asking too much of them. Period. If they want to help you, they will offer. Otherwise they only need to attend the wedding day itself.

lyndausvi · January 2015

Everyone reacts to things differently. If my MOH contacted me and said her BF's friend was now getting married on the same day as my e-party I would have been "bummer. Well if you have a chance please stop by." And my MOH was my own sister.

I would not have engaged in a text conversation about how she HAD to be there. Unless she was the host, she doesn't need to be there. The hosts and the couple are the only ones who HAVE to be there.

I like to help friends with things, however if I was getting text messages in the MORNING of an event I'm not even hosting asking where I was I would be sending snarky messages back too. Helping to setup is showing up an hour or so before everyone else. Not HOURS before the event. If your mom planned an event that needed help the entire day for the party that is on your mom. When they eagerly said they would help I bet they didn't know help meant ALL DAY LONG. And after a bunch of "where are you" texts would cause me to be late too.

New flash - your WP might be your nearest and dearest, but they are not slaves. They are not required to have to be at a party, they are not required to spend an entire day helping to set up a party. They are no more required to do anything than Aunt June is required to do.

Breathe, lower your expectation and you will be much happier. It's okay to be disappointed, but you sound down right mad.

Too many people think hollywood is real life. In a prefect world it would be nice have a lunch in with my WP while we all get fittings. In real life you will find that doesn't always happen. Actually I've been in a lot of weddings. Only once did I attend a pre-wedding dress shopping, lunch date with all the BMs and the bride. ONCE. All the other times (including my own) one or more of the BM were not there. Sometimes that BM was me. It was never a big deal. Shit happens, schedules get changed, do not match with other, just go with the flow and don't read into things. I've been in a weddings where the BM didn't show up until the morning of the wedding. NO BIG DEAL. She had something to do up until that point.

One time I was a BM for an OOT wedding. Now that was the one time all the BMs did go shopping and have lunch (about 9 months before the wedding). It was fun. After that I didn't see the bride until 2 weeks before the wedding when she flew to see me. I missed her e-party, shower, everything. 3 days before the wedding I showed up, picked up my unaltered dress and met with the seamstress. Then I helped the bride with all the last minute stuff for the next few days. Picked up my dress, when to the RD, wedding and then next day flew back home. 10 years later we are still good friends.

artbyallie · January 2015

doglover1992 said:

No, I didn’t throw my own engagement party. My mom threw it for us, and she asked the wedding party to help, which they agreed to immediately and with no argument. Only later did it become a problem for two of them, when there was something “more fun” to do instead. A bunch of our engagement party guests event commented about how tacky their behavior was just coming for free food basically and then taking off...

Your mom shouldn't have asked them to help in the first place. It's not tacky to enjoy a party as a guest, nor to leave when one chooses to do so.

I also asked each about their budgets, to which all responded except one. My mom even offered to buy her dress, she just doesn’t like the idea. (sorry, the post was long enough as-is!)

Is the one who didn't respond also the one who has a problem with the price? Perhaps she was not comfortable naming an amount if she felt it was embarrassingly low. You still could have requested an honest answer and offered to pay for part or all of her dress privately if finances were an issue.

Never did I say I was kicking anyone out, actually I specifically said I DIDNT want to kick them out. The whole point of this is looking for some advice to fix the problem. And I’m NOT supposed to have heartfelt talks when there’s a problem/I get my feelings hurt? hmm....

Saying 'you can back out if you want' is nothing more or less than a backhanded attempt to kick someone out. A heartfelt talk should not have your wedding as even a single factor in the conversation. You could certainly have said, "Friend, you seem very stressed out, would you like to talk about what's bothering you?" without even mentioning your wedding or her role in it.

So they get to act insensitive and not act like friends (family, actually) and I’m not allowed to be hurt by it... again, hmmm, questioning the advice here. They used to be very close to me, but their attitudes toward me have changed drastically in the last 9 months. There’s no reason for that...

Who doesn’t want to be part of a fun (and free) day anyway?? It’s not like I said you HAVE to come be at my beck and call and attend every event or I’m kicking you out, these were all things agreed upon originally which became a problem right beforehand....

Things come up. Life happens. Are you allowed to be hurt/upset? Absolutely. What you cannot do is take out your feelings on your friends/family. We will definitely listen to venting and talk you back from the ledge. We will not support treating anyone poorly in response.

Viczaesar · January 2015

doglover1992 said:

No, I didn’t throw my own engagement party. My mom threw it for us, and she asked the wedding party to help, which they agreed to immediately and with no argument. Only later did it become a problem for two of them, when there was something “more fun” to do instead. A bunch of our engagement party guests event commented about how tacky their behavior was just coming for free food basically and then taking off...

I also asked each about their budgets, to which all responded except one. My mom even offered to buy her dress, she just doesn’t like the idea. (sorry, the post was long enough as-is!)

Never did I say I was kicking anyone out, actually I specifically said I DIDNT want to kick them out. The whole point of this is looking for some advice to fix the problem. And I’m NOT supposed to have heartfelt talks when there’s a problem/I get my feelings hurt? hmm....

So they get to act insensitive and not act like friends (family, actually) and I’m not allowed to be hurt by it... again, hmmm, questioning the advice here. They used to be very close to me, but their attitudes toward me have changed drastically in the last 9 months. There’s no reason for that...

Who doesn’t want to be part of a fun (and free) day anyway?? It’s not like I said you HAVE to come be at my beck and call and attend every event or I’m kicking you out, these were all things agreed upon originally which became a problem right beforehand....

Actually, it sounds like YOU are the reason for that.

southernbelle0915 · January 2015

Came for the DD...

PrettyGirlLost · January 2015

doglover1992 said:

Holy crap, I put in paragraphs! That is a huge text block.....

You know a DD is going to be good when this^ is the 1st comment.

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