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"Viscerally negative reaction"...WTF?

mrsconn23mrsconn23 member
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in Wedding Woes

Dear Prudence,
My husband and I have a daughter and have been unable to have another child without intervention. We’re about to start our first round of IVF, where they will also do genetic testing to make sure the embryos are healthy. During this process, we can also find out the sex of the embryos. My husband asked that since we already have a daughter, would I be willing to have a male embryo implanted. I had an immediate, viscerally negative reaction to the idea. But if we had a boy first and now I had the chance to have a daughter, I think I might feel differently. What should we do?

—Sex Selection

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Re: "Viscerally negative reaction"...WTF?

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    DrillSergeantCatDrillSergeantCat member
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    Ahhh eugenics. So weird to have such a strong reaction to the idea. I have nothing...
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    NOLABridesmaidNOLABridesmaid member
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    Is her negative reaction from choosing the sex or that it's a boy?
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    short+sassyshort+sassy member
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    I agree with PPs.  I think a lot of parents like the idea of "one of each".  I'm going to guess her first reaction was negative is because, throughout history, there has been RAMPANT killing of baby girls.  In more modern society, selective abortions to only give birth to boys.

    Warning, I'm going way past the letter now.

    In one of my college classes, we discussed the phenomenon of "missing women" throughout the world.  This term refers to how many women should be living in various countries vs. how many actually are.  Worldwide, the shortfall is estimated to be 90M-101M.

    Nobel prize winning economist, Amartya Sen, was the first to note this phenomenon in a 1990 essay.  He attributes the main reasons for these "missing women" is selective abortions and females not being prized as highly.  Which, in poor countries, makes them less likely to get proper medical care and enough food to survive.  You can read more about it here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_women

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    DrillSergeantCatDrillSergeantCat member
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    @short+sassy I hadn't heard that. I have heard that we, in the US, have 1.5 million missing black men due to harsher punishments when a crime is committed. Interesting.
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    MissKittyDangerMissKittyDanger member
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    TrixieJess said:
    DrillSergeantCat said:
    @short+sassy I hadn't heard that. I have heard that we, in the US, have 1.5 million missing black men due to harsher punishments when a crime is committed. Interesting.
    In Canada we have a disproportionate amount of Indigenous women who go missing and are found murdered every year. So much so that there has been enough of an uproar that they are finally funding a countrywide inquiry into it. It is going to be interesting if they allow it to be investigated completely. It will mean a complete overhaul to how Indigenous people and especially Indigenous woman are treated by social services and the police (which as of now is appalling and horrific). 
    I'm so glad this is happening. Not only the fact that many didn't know the amount, but the fact that it's being dealt with. A friend of mine is half-Native and didn't even realize the amount of women missing :(
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    VarunaTTVarunaTT member
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    TrixieJess said:
    DrillSergeantCat said:
    @short+sassy I hadn't heard that. I have heard that we, in the US, have 1.5 million missing black men due to harsher punishments when a crime is committed. Interesting.
    In Canada we have a disproportionate amount of Indigenous women who go missing and are found murdered every year. So much so that there has been enough of an uproar that they are finally funding a countrywide inquiry into it. It is going to be interesting if they allow it to be investigated completely. It will mean a complete overhaul to how Indigenous people and especially Indigenous woman are treated by social services and the police (which as of now is appalling and horrific). 
    America's reservations have a similar problem.  There is a rape endemic, both from peers and from outside males, for the women in those populations.  And each government (state vs. federal) is punting to the other to help since the tribal police are not numerous enough.  It's pretty disgusting:  http://www.amnestyusa.org/pdfs/MazeOfInjustice.pdf


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    Zoly1103Zoly1103 member
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    TrixieJess said:
    DrillSergeantCat said:
    @short+sassy I hadn't heard that. I have heard that we, in the US, have 1.5 million missing black men due to harsher punishments when a crime is committed. Interesting.
    In Canada we have a disproportionate amount of Indigenous women who go missing and are found murdered every year. So much so that there has been enough of an uproar that they are finally funding a countrywide inquiry into it. It is going to be interesting if they allow it to be investigated completely. It will mean a complete overhaul to how Indigenous people and especially Indigenous woman are treated by social services and the police (which as of now is appalling and horrific). 
    I just listened to the Missing and Murdered Podcast that talked about this and it was really good. The reporter did a fantastic job.
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    TrixieJessTrixieJess member
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    VarunaTT said:
    TrixieJess said:
    DrillSergeantCat said:
    @short+sassy I hadn't heard that. I have heard that we, in the US, have 1.5 million missing black men due to harsher punishments when a crime is committed. Interesting.
    In Canada we have a disproportionate amount of Indigenous women who go missing and are found murdered every year. So much so that there has been enough of an uproar that they are finally funding a countrywide inquiry into it. It is going to be interesting if they allow it to be investigated completely. It will mean a complete overhaul to how Indigenous people and especially Indigenous woman are treated by social services and the police (which as of now is appalling and horrific). 
    America's reservations have a similar problem.  There is a rape endemic, both from peers and from outside males, for the women in those populations.  And each government (state vs. federal) is punting to the other to help since the tribal police are not numerous enough.  It's pretty disgusting:  http://www.amnestyusa.org/pdfs/MazeOfInjustice.pdf


    I grew up near a very large reserve and have a lot of indigenous friends who are activists. I also have family who were affected by the sixties scoop and Residential Schools. 

    I have a friend in the indigenous community who works with two-spirit youth and bridging their place in the community. Unfortunately, colonial mindset has done a lot of damage in these communities.
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    flantasticflantastic member
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    I understand that the parents like the idea of one of each, but I don't like the idea of choosing, and I think that's what she's reacting against.

    For one, it's the idea of definitely depriving their daughter of a sister. It's one thing if that's how it shakes out - you happen to only have two kids, and she happens to grow up with a brother. That's how life goes. I don't like it the other way either - you're choosing to give them a sister and depriving them of the experience of a brother. It's a minor one, but there is an element of playing God not only with the parents' experience of the family, but also their kids'.
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    SaintPaulGalSaintPaulGal member
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    flantastic said:
    I understand that the parents like the idea of one of each, but I don't like the idea of choosing, and I think that's what she's reacting against.

    For one, it's the idea of definitely depriving their daughter of a sister. It's one thing if that's how it shakes out - you happen to only have two kids, and she happens to grow up with a brother. That's how life goes. I don't like it the other way either - you're choosing to give them a sister and depriving them of the experience of a brother. It's a minor one, but there is an element of playing God not only with the parents' experience of the family, but also their kids'.
    I hear what you're saying, but you could go really far down that path.  Where does it end?  Is it okay to deprive the kid of the experience of being an only child?  What if you have a third?  Then you are depriving both existing kids of the experience of a one-on-one sibling bond.  But if you don't have that third kid, you are depriving them of the experience of another sibling.  If you stay with your partner for life you are depriving the kids of the experience of loving step parents. But if you divorce of course you are depriving the kids of the experience of a cohesive home.

    It's not possible to take every path.  Life is choices.  Boy or girl is a choice. Leaving gender to chance is also a choice.  At a certain point I think everyone just has to make the choice they think is best without agonizing about how the road not taken plays out for them or their offspring. 
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    HeffalumpHeffalump member
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    flantastic said:
    I understand that the parents like the idea of one of each, but I don't like the idea of choosing, and I think that's what she's reacting against.

    For one, it's the idea of definitely depriving their daughter of a sister. It's one thing if that's how it shakes out - you happen to only have two kids, and she happens to grow up with a brother. That's how life goes. I don't like it the other way either - you're choosing to give them a sister and depriving them of the experience of a brother. It's a minor one, but there is an element of playing God not only with the parents' experience of the family, but also their kids'.

    That's how I read it.  She's not opposed to having a boy, just opposed to preferring a boy.  Which, TBH, seems perfectly rational to me.
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    mrsconn23mrsconn23 member
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    edited January 2017
    Heffalump said:
    flantastic said:
    I understand that the parents like the idea of one of each, but I don't like the idea of choosing, and I think that's what she's reacting against.

    For one, it's the idea of definitely depriving their daughter of a sister. It's one thing if that's how it shakes out - you happen to only have two kids, and she happens to grow up with a brother. That's how life goes. I don't like it the other way either - you're choosing to give them a sister and depriving them of the experience of a brother. It's a minor one, but there is an element of playing God not only with the parents' experience of the family, but also their kids'.

    That's how I read it.  She's not opposed to having a boy, just opposed to preferring a boy.  Which, TBH, seems perfectly rational to me.
    I think her being over-wrought to the point of having a 'viscerally negative reaction' and writing Prudie is not rational.  

    I mean if they left it to chance the first time (from her letter, it sounds like they did), why not do it a second time?  And why not present it that way?  "Hey, I am uncomfortable about sex-selection and we didn't do it the first time.  So can we just leave it to chance this time?"

    Her feelings are valid, but so is her husband's question (as are his feelings).  
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