Today's Debate Topic

pearls687 · October 2017

http://www.wcnc.com/features/bride-speaks-out-about-controversial-breastfeeding-note/484471766

GO!

MRDCle · October 2017

I can understand why she may be upset about being blasted on social media, but if a mother feels comfortable nursing in public, that's her (legally protected, I believe) right. If a couple does not want breastfeeding mothers nursing in public at their wedding, I think the best route would be to indicate that children (including BF infants) are not invited, and understand that might mean some guests cannot attend.

climbingsingle · October 2017

Welp, this bride is a huge asshole. It's not for her to determine what's an appropriate place to feed your child.

southernbelle0915 · October 2017

Well, I got my fix of petty today.

How many breastfeeding guests could she have possibly had? Two? Maybe three tops? She's upset that the best man's wife didn't come to her, but she's the one who put a passive aggressive note in the woman's wedding invitation. Rolling my eyes HARD at her victim act. Both women were passive aggressive and both sound like young, immature "adults".

If you don't want women to breastfeed at your wedding, don't invite lactating women. Or just grow up. That's always an option too.

banana468 · October 2017

Nope. Nope nope nope.

This is a bride who clearly has no clue and those who planned things with her don't have a concept.

1) Anyone with a modicum of intelligence knows you don't ask a nursing mom to feed her baby in the bathroom. Even if the bathroom in a wedding venue has a lounge and chairs the message is that you're sending the nursing mom to the place where people poop.

2) I'm guessing that this is a private event so she can attempt to maneuver around some legal rights. This also isn't in the US. At least in my state, I'm allowed to nurse my child anywhere I'm legally allowed to be. It's illegal to ask me to go to the bathroom. I'm actually wondering if she had venue approval for such a thing and if that works for private events. My non legal expertise says that it won't.

3) This just isn't kind to your guests. I'd rather you have a child-free event then tell parents to feed their babies in another room. I'd applaud any couple's decision to have a child-free event and with that comes the understanding that others may not attend. You can't have it both ways. If I'm invited with my kids then they're not to be ostracized into another location. It's flat out rude to do that.

4) Doing this is a sign that the couple (I won't blame just the bride) have no freakin' clue about nursing. Some kids feed quickly. Others not so much. I attended a wedding when Chiquito was 5 weeks old and he nursed nearly 40 minutes out of every hour for the entire event. It was evening, he cluster fed at that time and that was the way to keep him comfortable. I sat, had him covered and no one had a clue. But this "accommodation" would have me in the reception for 20 minutes out of every hour. How would that make sense? In my own situation I was able to eat my dinner with one hand and hold the baby in the other. What would the bride propose to the women who needed to do this during mealtime? Eat in the bathroom?!?

5) Beyond this, the ease of nursing is that you have a fussy kid and slap them on. It's measured in seconds. Forcing someone to move out of the room means you have to carry a screaming kid out of the room. That's not really efficient.

Either invite the nursing babies or don't invite them at all. Don't do what this bride and groom did. They deserve the backlash.

mollybarker11 · October 2017

It's like stocking the bathroom with those little emergency kits of bobby pins & bandaids and then sending a note out like, "We're such super considerate hosts. Now you don't have to show up in our photos with fly-away hair or blisters, which would've been so embarrassing for you and grossed everyone else out. You're welcome!"

Maybe well-intentioned -- I'm willing to give this young bride the benefit of the doubt and assume she figured the moms would want to go somewhere private (because she's clueless about breastfeeding, as outlined by Banana) -- but her approach was overbearing. If she'd had some ammeneties set up in the washroom for breastfeeders I don't think it would've gone down like this. Maybe some would've rolled their eyes at her thinking they'd rather camp out in the whiz palace than risk a nip-slip at the dinner table, but I doubt it would've have had this much of a reaction. The fact that she created a Designated Zone and told breastfeeders to use it took things too far.

MairePoppy · October 2017

The bathroom is where you shit, not eat. Would the bride like to have her meal in the comfy chairs she is setting up in the restroom? Probably not. It really bugs me that some people equate breast feeding with bathroom functions.

When my daughter was in high school, she invited her bf to a family bbq. Cousin arrived with new baby. The mother was so discreet at nursing that the bf didn't realize the baby was having dinner till he picked up the blanket to get a close look at her. The look on his face was priceless.

MRDCle · October 2017

Exactly @mariepoppy nursing in public can be VERY discreet. I was nursing at my alma mater's homecoming game once when one of my friends came up to meet the baby. He was patting my son's head before he realized I was nursing. It's not like nursing mom's at weddings are out to flash the photographer.

banana468 · October 2017

MRDCle said:

Exactly @mariepoppy nursing in public can be VERY discreet. I was nursing at my alma mater's homecoming game once when one of my friends came up to meet the baby. He was patting my son's head before he realized I was nursing. It's not like nursing mom's at weddings are out to flash the photographer.

How small is this wedding that the bride thinks that the baby will be in sight of the photographer? Even with a nip in sight, does the photographer not have the ability to turn or even edit a shot after the fact?

MRDCle · October 2017

banana468 said:

MRDCle said:

Exactly @mariepoppy nursing in public can be VERY discreet. I was nursing at my alma mater's homecoming game once when one of my friends came up to meet the baby. He was patting my son's head before he realized I was nursing. It's not like nursing mom's at weddings are out to flash the photographer.

How small is this wedding that the bride thinks that the baby will be in sight of the photographer? Even with a nip in sight, does the photographer not have the ability to turn or even edit a shot after the fact?

Yeah I imagine you don't trust your photographer much to think they'll have nip slips all over your wedding album. But I doubt that's the actual issue here.

southernbelle0915 · October 2017

MairePoppy said:

It really bugs me that some people equate breast feeding with bathroom functions.

QFT. Please stop banishing infants who need to eat to the same place where people go to take a shit. If you can eat in public, so can they.

If you can't handle an infant naturally eating without pearl clutching, you need to grow up.

banana468 · October 2017

southernbelle0915 said:

MairePoppy said:

It really bugs me that some people equate breast feeding with bathroom functions.

QFT. Please stop banishing infants who need to eat to the same place where people go to take a shit. If you can eat in public, so can they.

If you can't handle an infant naturally eating without pearl clutching, you need to grow up.

That's why I'm wondering WTF the bride was thinking. I get that I'm in the 'I have babies' age so I'm aware of my US rights but I find it hard to believe that there isn't some level of intelligent discussion on this where the bride lives. Every now and then you see some idiot thinking that you can ask a BF mom to go somewhere else and they're generally told that they legally can't do that.

ei34 · October 2017

I can’t believe the bride is actually playing victim!! The absolute nerve! I hate when someone in the wrong does that. And the fact that her mom was on board

I don’t necessarily think that the woman who posted the memo on social media was wrong. At least not intentionally. For all we know she got it, said WTF and shared it originally with her sisters or cousins or like somewhere like TK. And it just ended up getting back to the bride. She may not even have had the bride’s contact info- my H’s best friend of many years has been dating a woman for over a year..we’ve met a couple of times but I don’t have her number, or even know her last name. SO’s of best friends aren’t automatically friends.
That said, if I was a nursing mother that received this, I would have proactively contacted the couple and let them know my baby was going to be eating in the dining room with the rest of the invited guests.

STARMOON44 · October 2017

Ridiculous.

lovesclimbing · October 2017

I'll be the odd man out and say, as an exclusively breastfeeding (I don't even own a pump or any bottles) mother of a four-month-old, I wouldn't mind a note like this.

Yes, women can breastfeed wherever they want. I've breastfed in public areas, always with a cover because that's what makes me more comfortable. I like sitting against a wall with the cover because it's open in the back.

I have never breastfed in a bathroom, but if there was a sitting area in a large ladies room, you can bet I'd go there to breastfeed.

Especially considering this is a wedding, an event where women might not be wearing the most breastfeeding-friendly clothing and might want to go somewhere else rather than, say, unzip the entire back of their dress to breastfeed right next to the dance floor.

I do think she should have phrased the note as on option rather than basically a requirement. But I also agree with the bride that if I saw that note, I wouldn't blast my friend all over social media.

banana468 · October 2017

lovesclimbing said:

I'll be the odd man out and say, as an exclusively breastfeeding (I don't even own a pump or any bottles) mother of a four-month-old, I wouldn't mind a note like this.

Yes, women can breastfeed wherever they want. I've breastfed in public areas, always with a cover because that's what makes me more comfortable. I like sitting against a wall with the cover because it's open in the back.

I have never breastfed in a bathroom, but if there was a sitting area in a large ladies room, you can bet I'd go there to breastfeed.

Especially considering this is a wedding, an event where women might not be wearing the most breastfeeding-friendly clothing and might want to go somewhere else rather than, say, unzip the entire back of their dress to breastfeed right next to the dance floor.

I do think she should have phrased the note as on option rather than basically a requirement. But I also agree with the bride that if I saw that note, I wouldn't blast my friend all over social media.

If you're attending a wedding, you figure out how to make the attire nursing friendly.

Offering a different place is different from requiring it.

lovesclimbing · October 2017

banana468 said:

lovesclimbing said:

I'll be the odd man out and say, as an exclusively breastfeeding (I don't even own a pump or any bottles) mother of a four-month-old, I wouldn't mind a note like this.

Yes, women can breastfeed wherever they want. I've breastfed in public areas, always with a cover because that's what makes me more comfortable. I like sitting against a wall with the cover because it's open in the back.

I have never breastfed in a bathroom, but if there was a sitting area in a large ladies room, you can bet I'd go there to breastfeed.

Especially considering this is a wedding, an event where women might not be wearing the most breastfeeding-friendly clothing and might want to go somewhere else rather than, say, unzip the entire back of their dress to breastfeed right next to the dance floor.

I do think she should have phrased the note as on option rather than basically a requirement. But I also agree with the bride that if I saw that note, I wouldn't blast my friend all over social media.

If you're attending a wedding, you figure out how to make the attire nursing friendly.

Offering a different place is different from requiring it.

Yes, and like I said, women can nurse wherever they want and that note should have been worded as an offering if people wanted it. I'm just saying, some people, like myself, would use it.

Regarding clothing, eh, maybe. I don't always dress that nursing friendly and I don't have any specifically nursing-friendly tops. I'm typically pulling my shirt up, hence why I always use a cover. I just don't feel like spending a lot of money (nor do I have the money to spend) on a whole new wardrobe. So while I would try not to wear a dress that I had to unzip, I'd probably be wearing a top I had to pull up. And even if I'm wearing v-necks with a cami underneath, I don't like pulling them down and stretching them out.

banana468 · October 2017

lovesclimbing said:

banana468 said:

lovesclimbing said:

I'll be the odd man out and say, as an exclusively breastfeeding (I don't even own a pump or any bottles) mother of a four-month-old, I wouldn't mind a note like this.

Yes, women can breastfeed wherever they want. I've breastfed in public areas, always with a cover because that's what makes me more comfortable. I like sitting against a wall with the cover because it's open in the back.

I have never breastfed in a bathroom, but if there was a sitting area in a large ladies room, you can bet I'd go there to breastfeed.

Especially considering this is a wedding, an event where women might not be wearing the most breastfeeding-friendly clothing and might want to go somewhere else rather than, say, unzip the entire back of their dress to breastfeed right next to the dance floor.

I do think she should have phrased the note as on option rather than basically a requirement. But I also agree with the bride that if I saw that note, I wouldn't blast my friend all over social media.

If you're attending a wedding, you figure out how to make the attire nursing friendly.

Offering a different place is different from requiring it.

Yes, and like I said, women can nurse wherever they want and that note should have been worded as an offering if people wanted it. I'm just saying, some people, like myself, would use it.

Regarding clothing, eh, maybe. I don't always dress that nursing friendly and I don't have any specifically nursing-friendly tops. I'm typically pulling my shirt up, hence why I always use a cover. I just don't feel like spending a lot of money (nor do I have the money to spend) on a whole new wardrobe. So while I would try not to wear a dress that I had to unzip, I'd probably be wearing a top I had to pull up. And even if I'm wearing v-necks with a cami underneath, I don't like pulling them down and stretching them out.

I think you're missing the point though:
1) If you're allowed to be there, you can nurse there. They don't have to put that in writing. If they said, "Hey nursing mom! Over here you'll find leak pads, high protein snacks and water bottles along with some baby wipes, burp cloths and comfy chairs," It's one thing. They didn't. And because you can nurse where you're allowed to be it's redundant to tell you about where you can nurse in a place your'e welcome to be in.

2) Maybe you don't always dress nursing friendly but that's YOUR CHOICE. When I've gone to dressy events with nursing baby I wore a wrap dress and a nursing bra/tank or a dress with buttons at the top. Business casual was far easier with button up shirts being made for easy access. But you're talking about YOUR CHOICE in what to wear - not a choice that someone is attempting to make for you. It still doesn't change the fact that for many with young kids, nursing is a LOOOOOONG TIME.

short+sassy · October 2017

No question the bride was obviously very much in the wrong to "require" nursing mothers to use the bathroom for that activity.

But I think her friend was really sh***y also. Especially since it sounds like this is a long time, close friend. I don't understand why her friend didn't just level with/educate the bride and tell her, "Hey, I don't know what you are thinking, but ostracizing nursing mothers is really offensive." Instead, the mother doesn't say one word to the bride, but then blasts her on social media.

With that said, it sounds like the bride has "doubled down" on her bad decision. Since she talked about all her "reasons" for it in that article, I'm sure she said these same things to the people attacking her on social media. Basically throwing more mud in her own face.

As an aside, I think this is one of the big failings of how some people use social media. Excuse me while I go into "grandma mode". Back in my day, if someone did/said something that upset you/was wrong, you either ignored it or you TOLD THEM. Like, an IRL frickin' conversation. Or over the phone (a landline one, lol).

Now people have fights on FB, Twitter, etc. for all the world to see and read...including fights with strangers. It's so ridiculous and stupid.

banana468 · October 2017

short+sassy said:

No question the bride was obviously very much in the wrong to "require" nursing mothers to use the bathroom for that activity.
But I think her friend was really sh***y also. Especially since it sounds like this is a long time, close friend. I don't understand why her friend didn't just level with/educate the bride and tell her, "Hey, I don't know what you are thinking, but ostracizing nursing mothers is really offensive." Instead, the mother doesn't say one word to the bride, but then blasts her on social media.
With that said, it sounds like the bride has "doubled down" on her bad decision. Since she talked about all her "reasons" for it in that article, I'm sure she said these same things to the people attacking her on social media. Basically throwing more mud in her own face.
As an aside, I think this is one of the big failings of how some people use social media. Excuse me while I go into "grandma mode". Back in my day, if someone did/said something that upset you/was wrong, you either ignored it or you TOLD THEM. Like, an IRL frickin' conversation. Or over the phone (a landline one, lol).
Now people have fights on FB, Twitter, etc. for all the world to see and read...including fights with strangers. It's so ridiculous and stupid.

I agree with you there!

IMO, I think it's absolutely shitty to trash a person on social media like this.

Buuuut I also think we're in the age of social media. We often tell people to take their voices to social media when they have an issue with a business. Unfortunately doing it this way is not a way to keep friends. My guess is that the mom and the bride aren't friends. The groom and the husband of the irritated mom are buddies.

Also, if they're hoping to help their cause with the bathroom photos used in that news clip they're really mistaken.

MRDCle · October 2017

What, @banana468, that wooden folding chair and table too small/cluttered for mom to set anything other than a glass of water doesn't scream comfortable nursing area to you??

missJeanLouise · October 2017

I wonder if the issue was actually that she was breast feeding a 2y/o, and not an infant, and that is why they banished her to the bathroom.

flantastic · October 2017

So based on the note, I wouldn't consider that a mandate to go to the bathroom. I would probably just say "Oh, that seems like they tried to make an accommodation for people who might be self-conscious, but a poorly thought out one, and I'm just gonna go ahead and nurse in the dining room."

Then if someone made it clear that this was THE BF option per the couple, then I would tell the couple that it was a poor idea and I'm not doing that.

Social media blasting your friend when you haven't even talked to them sounds like a terrible option.

ETA - I see the "we request that you use this" wording at the end. So directly to paragraph 2, then.

MRDCle · October 2017

missJeanLouise said:

I wonder if the issue was actually that she was breast feeding a 2y/o, and not an infant, and that is why they banished her to the bathroom.

Does it mention the child's age somewhere? I must have missed that - not that the age matters to me. Nobody should really be confined to the bathroom to eat.

kaos16 · October 2017

MRDCle said:

missJeanLouise said:

I wonder if the issue was actually that she was breast feeding a 2y/o, and not an infant, and that is why they banished her to the bathroom.

Does it mention the child's age somewhere? I must have missed that - not that the age matters to me. Nobody should really be confined to the bathroom to eat.

It mentions in the link within the link that she was breastfeeding a 2yo during the interview

missJeanLouise · October 2017

kaos16 said:

MRDCle said:

missJeanLouise said:

I wonder if the issue was actually that she was breast feeding a 2y/o, and not an infant, and that is why they banished her to the bathroom.

Does it mention the child's age somewhere? I must have missed that - not that the age matters to me. Nobody should really be confined to the bathroom to eat.

It mentions in the link within the link that she was breastfeeding a 2yo during the interview

That’s true... I just skimmed the article. idk how old the baby was during the wedding. It was just a food for thought, not trying to justify her behavior

banana468 · October 2017

missJeanLouise said:

kaos16 said:

MRDCle said:

missJeanLouise said:

I wonder if the issue was actually that she was breast feeding a 2y/o, and not an infant, and that is why they banished her to the bathroom.

Does it mention the child's age somewhere? I must have missed that - not that the age matters to me. Nobody should really be confined to the bathroom to eat.

It mentions in the link within the link that she was breastfeeding a 2yo during the interview

That’s true... I just skimmed the article. idk how old the baby was during the wedding. It was just a food for thought, not trying to justify her behavior

Nursing a 2 yo seems to be looked down on in the US but my understanding is that it's more common in other developed countries. For some reason we tie the concept of having teeth to mean that milk isn't needed.

charlotte989875 · October 2017

If this really was about creating an accommodating space for bf mothers, it could have been accomplished by posting a sign near the ladies room/a small insert/word of mouth that a separate, comfortable space nearby was available. But that's clearly not what this was about, it was about a bridezilla not wanting someone to do something that is legal on their special day. I have zero patience, or sympathies, for this couple.

banana468 · October 2017

flantastic said:

So based on the note, I wouldn't consider that a mandate to go to the bathroom. I would probably just say "Oh, that seems like they tried to make an accommodation for people who might be self-conscious, but a poorly thought out one, and I'm just gonna go ahead and nurse in the dining room."

Then if someone made it clear that this was THE BF option per the couple, then I would tell the couple that it was a poor idea and I'm not doing that.

Social media blasting your friend when you haven't even talked to them sounds like a terrible option.

ETA - I see the "we request that you use this" wording at the end. So directly to paragraph 2, then.

I'm going on a hunch here that the offended party is not friends with the couple. Her DH was the BM and has a bit of an air of "Your friend's FI is a bitch."

I honestly don't think either party have done themselves any favors here. However the bride and groom are far more in the wrong IMO.

thisismynickname2 · October 2017

As a new nursing mother, I think the bride could have said "we've created a spot so you may be more comfortable" and left it at that. I would appreciate that. The fact that it's a ladies room, well, many ladies' rooms at upscale places are spacious and have loungy areas separate from the sinks and toilets. I've BF'd from some such lounges already. I actually like it; I have no issue being "in public" either but if I'm gonna flash a nip trying to get the kid to latch I'd rather only flash it to fellow women.

Saying "we request you use it" is where it draws the line! WTF.

ETA: I had one close friend coming to my wedding who was BFing a 6 week old. Even though our wedding wasn't kid-friendly I told her to bring the kid if she wanted. How she was going to feed the kid, or where, absolutely never crossed my mind! She didn't bring him, but if she had, no way would I care if she BF'd at the dinner table.

lovesclimbing · October 2017

banana468 said:

lovesclimbing said:

banana468 said:

lovesclimbing said:

I'll be the odd man out and say, as an exclusively breastfeeding (I don't even own a pump or any bottles) mother of a four-month-old, I wouldn't mind a note like this.

Yes, women can breastfeed wherever they want. I've breastfed in public areas, always with a cover because that's what makes me more comfortable. I like sitting against a wall with the cover because it's open in the back.

I have never breastfed in a bathroom, but if there was a sitting area in a large ladies room, you can bet I'd go there to breastfeed.

Especially considering this is a wedding, an event where women might not be wearing the most breastfeeding-friendly clothing and might want to go somewhere else rather than, say, unzip the entire back of their dress to breastfeed right next to the dance floor.

I do think she should have phrased the note as on option rather than basically a requirement. But I also agree with the bride that if I saw that note, I wouldn't blast my friend all over social media.

If you're attending a wedding, you figure out how to make the attire nursing friendly.

Offering a different place is different from requiring it.

Yes, and like I said, women can nurse wherever they want and that note should have been worded as an offering if people wanted it. I'm just saying, some people, like myself, would use it.

Regarding clothing, eh, maybe. I don't always dress that nursing friendly and I don't have any specifically nursing-friendly tops. I'm typically pulling my shirt up, hence why I always use a cover. I just don't feel like spending a lot of money (nor do I have the money to spend) on a whole new wardrobe. So while I would try not to wear a dress that I had to unzip, I'd probably be wearing a top I had to pull up. And even if I'm wearing v-necks with a cami underneath, I don't like pulling them down and stretching them out.

I think you're missing the point though:
1) If you're allowed to be there, you can nurse there. They don't have to put that in writing. If they said, "Hey nursing mom! Over here you'll find leak pads, high protein snacks and water bottles along with some baby wipes, burp cloths and comfy chairs," It's one thing. They didn't. And because you can nurse where you're allowed to be it's redundant to tell you about where you can nurse in a place your'e welcome to be in.

2) Maybe you don't always dress nursing friendly but that's YOUR CHOICE. When I've gone to dressy events with nursing baby I wore a wrap dress and a nursing bra/tank or a dress with buttons at the top. Business casual was far easier with button up shirts being made for easy access. But you're talking about YOUR CHOICE in what to wear - not a choice that someone is attempting to make for you. It still doesn't change the fact that for many with young kids, nursing is a LOOOOOONG TIME.

Umm, no I'm not. I literally said almost exactly what you wrote out in #1. I said "she should have phrased the note as an option, not a requirement" and then I said "like I said, women can nurse wherever they want and that note should have been worded as an offering if people wanted it."

As for #2, I really don't understand how what I said is related to what you're saying. I fully understand how I dress is my choice and other people may choose differently. You made a blanket statement that when nursing moms go to weddings, they wear nursing friendly attire, and all I was doing was pointing out that not everyone does. I said nothing about how long it takes to nurse and nothing about trying to make other people's clothing choices for them.

Again, you may not use the area. Fine, good for you. I see a lot of people getting up in arms about "you don't eat in the bathroom, why would you make your baby!" All I'm saying is, there may be moms, such as me, who would if there was a nice setup with chairs and stuff in part of the ladies room. That's all.

ETA: the only thing I find out of line in this situation is the way the note was written/the requirement that everyone use that are all.

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