Premarital counseling

holyguacamole79 · October 2017

I've seen a priest once deny someone communion (sorta). Two boys were goofing around and being a major distraction during Mass (especially Communion time). When they approached the priest, he told the boys to go sit down, think about how to behave properly, and to return when they are properly ready to receive the Eucharist. He didn't make a scene, and I probably would not have noticed if I wasn't sitting close to the front.

I remember several years ago, there was a news story about a lesbian denied communion at her mother's funeral. I had read several different accounts of what happened ... apparently, she had made a comment to the priest prior to the funeral Mass about her sexual orientation. Others said she didn't. Who knows. I called my aunt and her wife to see what they thought (just out of curiosity). She (my aunt) said, "It's no secret what the Catholic Church teaches. When you're in someone's house, you obey their rules. She shouldn't have done what she did." I thought that was an interesting perspective. I'm sure others have differing opinions.

As an EMHC (a non-priest / deacon who distributes communion), I've been told that I cannot deny someone the Eucharist. If someone, for example, has divorced and remarried without an annulment, then I would still give him/ her communion. I would, however, let the pastor know and leave it up to him to discuss with the person privately.

Alaska_RockGirl · October 2017

We did 5 sessions of pre-marital counseling through my workplace EAP (Employee Assistance Program) before our marriage. We were already living together, had only had two minor arguments in the 2 years we'd been dating, and had been friends for a year and a half before we started dating.

Did I think we *needed* pre-marital counseling? No. But I wanted to sit down with a neutral third part with different/longer life experiences. I thought the third party could bring up ideas or issues we may not have considered yet, things that can be major issues of contention: finances, children, future parental care, work plans, life plans, etc.

We had good discussions, learned more about each other, and worked on our communication during the sessions. It was totally worth the time we invested in it.

MissKittyDanger · October 2017

Alaska_RockGirl said:

We did 5 sessions of pre-marital counseling through my workplace EAP (Employee Assistance Program) before our marriage. We were already living together, had only had two minor arguments in the 2 years we'd been dating, and had been friends for a year and a half before we started dating.
Did I think we *needed* pre-marital counseling? No. But I wanted to sit down with a neutral third part with different/longer life experiences. I thought the third party could bring up ideas or issues we may not have considered yet, things that can be major issues of contention: finances, children, future parental care, work plans, life plans, etc.
We had good discussions, learned more about each other, and worked on our communication during the sessions. It was totally worth the time we invested in it.

Even though we opted out of marital counseling, we actually ended up having conversations about these things {not at the same time} because I'm an only child, so my H had to understand that there wasn't a lot of options - where as he has a brother.

MairePoppy · October 2017

holyguacamole79 said:

I've seen a priest once deny someone communion (sorta). Two boys were goofing around and being a major distraction during Mass (especially Communion time). When they approached the priest, he told the boys to go sit down, think about how to behave properly, and to return when they are properly ready to receive the Eucharist. He didn't make a scene, and I probably would not have noticed if I wasn't sitting close to the front.

I remember several years ago, there was a news story about a lesbian denied communion at her mother's funeral. I had read several different accounts of what happened ... apparently, she had made a comment to the priest prior to the funeral Mass about her sexual orientation. Others said she didn't. Who knows. I called my aunt and her wife to see what they thought (just out of curiosity). She (my aunt) said, "It's no secret what the Catholic Church teaches. When you're in someone's house, you obey their rules. She shouldn't have done what she did." I thought that was an interesting perspective. I'm sure others have differing opinions.

As an EMHC (a non-priest / deacon who distributes communion), I've been told that I cannot deny someone the Eucharist. If someone, for example, has divorced and remarried without an annulment, then I would still give him/ her communion. I would, however, let the pastor know and leave it up to him to discuss with the person privately.

Sexual orientation, in itself, shouldn't preclude anyone from receiving communion, even following the rules strictly. It's the act of sex outside of Catholic approved marriage that is the 'sin' that makes you out of the state of grace. It's the same reason that H and I did not receive communion.The 'rule' should also apply to all those who are living together and having sex before marriage. So the GLTB community should not be singled out. And there it is in a nutshell, the main reason that I am not a practicing Catholic. I do not believe for one second that a loving God would exclude anyone for the above mentioned reasons.

*ETA - nor do I believe that sex is a sin.

holyguacamole79 · October 2017

MairePoppy said:

holyguacamole79 said:

I've seen a priest once deny someone communion (sorta). Two boys were goofing around and being a major distraction during Mass (especially Communion time). When they approached the priest, he told the boys to go sit down, think about how to behave properly, and to return when they are properly ready to receive the Eucharist. He didn't make a scene, and I probably would not have noticed if I wasn't sitting close to the front.

I remember several years ago, there was a news story about a lesbian denied communion at her mother's funeral. I had read several different accounts of what happened ... apparently, she had made a comment to the priest prior to the funeral Mass about her sexual orientation. Others said she didn't. Who knows. I called my aunt and her wife to see what they thought (just out of curiosity). She (my aunt) said, "It's no secret what the Catholic Church teaches. When you're in someone's house, you obey their rules. She shouldn't have done what she did." I thought that was an interesting perspective. I'm sure others have differing opinions.

As an EMHC (a non-priest / deacon who distributes communion), I've been told that I cannot deny someone the Eucharist. If someone, for example, has divorced and remarried without an annulment, then I would still give him/ her communion. I would, however, let the pastor know and leave it up to him to discuss with the person privately.

Sexual orientation, in itself, shouldn't preclude anyone from receiving communion, even following the rules strictly. It's the act of sex outside of Catholic approved marriage that is the 'sin' that makes you out of the state of grace. It's the same reason that H and I did not receive communion. The 'rule' should also apply to all those who are living together and having sex before marriage. So the GLTB community should not be singled out. And there it is in a nutshell, the main reason that I am not a practicing Catholic. I do not believe for one second that a loving God would exclude anyone for the above mentioned reasons.

I totally agree, @MairePoppy ... I found the article of the original news story. It said that she was in a relationship, so technically she should not have come forward to receive. I just thought my aunt had an interesting perspective on it. I also agree that the same standard should be applied to hetero couples. The article mentions that the Archdiocese sent an apology to the family.

My understanding is that if a priest / deacon sees someone whom they know is not in a state of grade (for whatever reason), he would not say / do anything during the Mass, but reach out to the person to discuss. I mean, my brother was married outside the church when we got married, and it was no secret. I imagine he came forward for communion at our wedding Mass and nothing was said. It is a sad double standard ..... I was just pointing out that I've never heard of it happening except for that story (and the story of the kids misbehaving).

MairePoppy · November 2017

@holyguacamole79 - I just read that article. There is a sinner in that story and it's not Barbara.

LadyCatherineDB · November 2017

I know someone who was denied Communion at a Lutheran church because the pastor didn't know him. (He was visiting.) That was years ago, but I've heard of other Lutheran parishes that require a pre-service introduction to receive Communion.

ILoveBeachMusic · November 2017

LadyCatherineDB said:

I know someone who was denied Communion at a Lutheran church because the pastor didn't know him. (He was visiting.) That was years ago, but I've heard of other Lutheran parishes that require a pre-service introduction to receive Communion.

That is most likely a Missouri Synod Lutheran Church (or other very conservative synod) not an ELCA Lutheran church.

vikinganna87 · November 2017

We were not required to do premarital counseling but I thought it was a good idea and H somewhat reluctantly agreed to do it. I had an older boyfriend when I was in college --- this ex BF's friend & fiance went to Pre-Cana and decided not to get married after just a few sessions. That stuck with me.

As with a lot of counseling it depends on how you jibe with the therapist or minister. Ours was a retired minister whom I'd sought out to do our wedding ceremony. We went to 2 sessions with him which were valuable. However, in the 2nd one he seemed to forget everything we'd initially told him and was overly concerned about getting paid in advance for the wedding several months out. Coupled with the inconvenience of him being relatively far away from us, we opted not to continue and chose another minister for our wedding.

He did go through some valuable communication techniques and provided good insight about the cycle and evolution of long-term partnerships. I was surprised at how open and trusting H was in these moderated sessions and have seen him like that the MD's office, etc, since. Which I reckon bodes well if we were do more counseling. A couple of things that resonated and stayed with me:

+When you marry someone you only know a small bit about yourself and your partner. The rest is a leap of faith. So what you see initially is just the tip of the iceberg and underneath the surface is a complex human with a lot of unknowns. As your relationship evolves, your true self and partner's true self will reveal themselves as you encounter challenges. [The minister articulated this much better than I just did]

+Everyone has faults, weaknesses, negative past experiences and insecurities that manifest themselves in close relationships. When you decide to divorce, keep in mind that you'll bring those faults to the new relationship and eventually encounter the same problems again. [This also resonated well with H because he's brought it up to me and others in casual conversations since then].

In short, I wish we'd continued the pre-marital counseling for at least a few more sessions, even if we'd done it with a new minister. It was actually tough to find a protestant minister who offered those services [our new one didn't], but I could've found a therapist or some other counselor. I was initially overly fixated on the person who would marry us also guide us through the pre-marital stages.

FWIW H was raised Catholic. I was raised Protestant - technically Lutheran but relatively open about what Protestant churches I attend. We got married in a Unitarian church across from our wedding venue in a small mountain town about 2.5 hours away from where we lived at the time.

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