When is it okay to not send and invite when a STD has been sent.

augustgirl21 · January 2018

So I know the rule is if a STD is sent an invite must be sent.
However, I sent a STD to my boss and other people in the department.
As of 8am tomorrow she firing me. (actually she's giving the chance to quit to cover her ass but whatever) Point is she will not be my boss when the invites are sent. However she already has a STD.
Should I still send her an invite?
Should others in former department be handled on a case by case basis?

TIA

*edited for clarity

short+sassy · January 2018

I'm so sorry to hear what happened!

If you haven't already given notice, think carefully about taking the "quitting" option. You will definitely not be eligible for unemployment if you do that. Technically, you aren't if you get fired either. But then the ball is in their court to PROVE cause, which usually requires written documentation, ie them giving you written warnings beforehand.

I have actually been on both ends of that "fight". A previous employee for a company I used to work for had the company's "objection" overturned by the UE office. And I won against a previous company when they challenged my claim. At least in Louisiana, the UE office leans WAY more to the side of the employee.

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I'm sorry, I have to hijack a little because that last one was hilarious. I gave my two weeks notice to a tyrant boss. Almost like an emotionally abusive relationship, he starts loudly telling me, "Oh you think you're gonna quit!?!? You're not going to quit, because I'm FIRING you!" And he balled up my letter and threw it on the ground. I tried to not to let him see how much I wanted the letter back. But when he walked away, I ever so non-chalantly picked up that letter and put it back in my purse. Bingo, you a**. You just fired me without cause. Now I'm out of this nightmare job AND can collect UE.

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Others might disagree, but this would fall strongly in the "exception" category for me. Unlike a friend or family member, where there would be hard feelings and be a potential friendship-ending mood, I'm assuming you don't want to maintain a relationship with most/all of these work people anyway.

I'm also assuming that they are local to you and it isn't like any of them have or might have made travel arrangements.

Now, if you socialize with any of these coworkers outside of work and plan to continue to do that, I would definitely send those select people invites.

banana468 · January 2018

If she isn't going to be your boss it's against etiquette but I think if she's firing you she's probably not worried about attending your wedding.

downtondiva · January 2018

I'd say this qualifies as a rare exception, at least as far as your boss goes - not because she will no longer be your boss, but because she fired you. This is, presumably, someone with whom your relationship is now at an end, and it didn't end well. As far as coworkers go, you may want to take that on a case by case basis, depending on how close you are to any of them beyond work, and whether you want or expect to remain friends with them.

I say that if something happens between sending out STD's and sending out invites that completely breaks a relationship and there is no chance of fixing it, then it's okay not to send an invitation. However, it has to be something very serious, and you have to be certain that you no longer want the person in your life. I think this qualifies.

ScottishSarah · January 2018

Sending someone a STD but not an invitation is a relationship ending move. If the relationship is over it doesn't really matter IYSWIM?

LondonLisa · January 2018

I think there are a lot of factors here, and I am sorry that you are losing your job. That is never a nice situation to be in.

If you have time on your side (i.e. your wedding is not for a couple months or more). I would just leave this for now. Emotions are very raw and hightened.

On a personal note, I once worked with someone who was fantastic, and the department loved, but had an incompetent boss. He ended up making her redundant as he was terrified she was going to find out how bad he was (we already knew!).He was very close with his boss (the head of dept). She just kept her head high and gracefully left as everyone in the department was discussing how terrible she had been treated. He took credit for her work, threw her under the bus etc etc. But she didn't stoop down and she definitely left the victor in the long run. He ended up running the section into the ground, and she was brought back 18 months later (at better pay and title, almost as his boss) in part because the Head remembered her ability to remain calm and professional in crisis situations. (By all means, be angry to your best friend/ your fi- scream once you get in your car, yell, cry, whatever you need. But being professional, but firm is not a bad thing in this situation.).

I am not saying you have to be best friends, or even cordial. But unless you can absolutely, positively say that you will never, ever, ever cross paths with this person professionally, maybe think before you burn that bridge. It depends a lot on your industry (mine is incredibly small!).

If I were in your shoes, I would take the wedding out of it for now. I would first get legal advice on this firing/quiting situation (are you in a Union? if not, consider joining one in your next role). Long story short, good professional advice is don't make an enemy you don't have to make. After sending a STD, it is a relationship ender to not send an invite. Wait a bit until you can make an objective decision.

JediElizabeth · January 2018

I agree that the relationship will be ended with your boss, and not on good terms, so you don't have to invite her.

However, I would still invite the coworkers who got STDs. Assuming your relationship is otherwise fine with them, these are people who you may use as references, network with, find new jobs through, etc. Especially if you're unemployed, it's even more important to retain good relationships with them.

Good luck! Hopefully you find something new quickly!

ahoywedding · January 2018

I'm sorry to hear about your work situation! Like @short+sassy said, let them fire you. If you're in the US at least, it's easier to get unemployment if you don't quit. I once had an employer who, instead of firing me when I asked for a small medical accommodation, said "okay we're counting this as your notice and since you're not working out two weeks you're not eligible for rehire." I was in no place to argue at that point and needed to just take care of myself, but I wish I would have forced them to fire me. I've also fired people for SUPER legit reasons who still got unemployment.

That being said, if you're sure you won't cross paths with your current boss professionally or need her for a reference, I think you're good to terminate the relationship with her and not send an invite. Consider each of your coworkers on an individual basis. If there are any you'd like to still hang out with after you don't work together, or some you may want to keep a relationship with then you should still invite them. We didn't send an invite to one couple we sent a STD to, but they did something very horrible and friendship-ending between there and we wanted nothing to do with them ever again.

MissKittyDanger · January 2018

ahoywedding said:

I once had an employer who, instead of firing me when I asked for a small medical accommodation, said "okay we're counting this as your notice and since you're not working out two weeks you're not eligible for rehire." I was in no place to argue at that point and needed to just take care of myself, but I wish I would have forced them to fire me.

Omg that's horrible of them!

short+sassy · January 2018

ahoywedding said:

I'm sorry to hear about your work situation! Like @short+sassy said, let them fire you. If you're in the US at least, it's easier to get unemployment if you don't quit. I once had an employer who, instead of firing me when I asked for a small medical accommodation, said "okay we're counting this as your notice and since you're not working out two weeks you're not eligible for rehire." I was in no place to argue at that point and needed to just take care of myself, but I wish I would have forced them to fire me. I've also fired people for SUPER legit reasons who still got unemployment.

That being said, if you're sure you won't cross paths with your current boss professionally or need her for a reference, I think you're good to terminate the relationship with her and not send an invite. Consider each of your coworkers on an individual basis. If there are any you'd like to still hang out with after you don't work together, or some you may want to keep a relationship with then you should still invite them. We didn't send an invite to one couple we sent a STD to, but they did something very horrible and friendship-ending between there and we wanted nothing to do with them ever again.

Ugh, infuriating! I had something similar happen to my friend. She went on a medical leave. She kept them apprised the whole time about her return date. That things were going well and she'd still be returning on X date, etc.

They "fired her" while she was out. Didn't even tell her over the phone. And this was a smaller office of 50 people. They sent her a letter of termination. And even worse, her term. date was two weeks before they even MAILED her the letter. Which screwed her out of two weeks of UE.

Then they put up an objection to her UE, claiming she had been a "no show", smh. So stupid! She had the documentation she'd given them. Including her e-mails that outlined her return date. They lost.

Jen4948 · January 2018

As you note, not following up a save-the-date with an invitation is considered a relationship-ending move, but if you're about to be fired and you won't need a good reference or anything else from this boss by the time you send your invitations, I think you can let the relationship go ahead and die and not invite your boss (but I agree with a PP that you should still invite your co-workers).

banana468 · January 2018

Jen4948 said:

As you note, not following up a save-the-date with an invitation is considered a relationship-ending move, but if you're about to be fired and you won't need a good reference or anything else from this boss by the time you send your invitations, I think you can let the relationship go ahead and die and not invite your boss (but I agree with a PP that you should still invite your co-workers).

FWIW, more and more companies don't even provide references. They just say yes or no to an employee having worked at the company. If this superior is terminating the OP and not laying her off, my guess is that a wedding invitation or lack thereof isn't going to impact any assertion to having worked there.

charlotte989875 · January 2018

short+sassy said:

ahoywedding said:

I'm sorry to hear about your work situation! Like @short+sassy said, let them fire you. If you're in the US at least, it's easier to get unemployment if you don't quit. I once had an employer who, instead of firing me when I asked for a small medical accommodation, said "okay we're counting this as your notice and since you're not working out two weeks you're not eligible for rehire." I was in no place to argue at that point and needed to just take care of myself, but I wish I would have forced them to fire me. I've also fired people for SUPER legit reasons who still got unemployment.

That being said, if you're sure you won't cross paths with your current boss professionally or need her for a reference, I think you're good to terminate the relationship with her and not send an invite. Consider each of your coworkers on an individual basis. If there are any you'd like to still hang out with after you don't work together, or some you may want to keep a relationship with then you should still invite them. We didn't send an invite to one couple we sent a STD to, but they did something very horrible and friendship-ending between there and we wanted nothing to do with them ever again.

Ugh, infuriating! I had something similar happen to my friend. She went on a medical leave. She kept them apprised the whole time about her return date. That things were going well and she'd still be returning on X date, etc.
They "fired her" while she was out. Didn't even tell her over the phone. And this was a smaller office of 50 people. They sent her a letter of termination. And even worse, her term. date was two weeks before they even MAILED her the letter. Which screwed her out of two weeks of UE.
Then they put up an objection to her UE, claiming she had been a "no show", smh. So stupid! She had the documentation she'd given them. Including her e-mails that outlined her return date. They lost.

I wouldn't be surprised if your friend had an EEOC complaint with that.

I know not everyone wants to pursue that type of thing but what they did (based on what you wrote here) sounds not legal to me (also not a lawyer, but someone who teaches law courses).

Jen4948 · January 2018

banana468 said:

Jen4948 said:

As you note, not following up a save-the-date with an invitation is considered a relationship-ending move, but if you're about to be fired and you won't need a good reference or anything else from this boss by the time you send your invitations, I think you can let the relationship go ahead and die and not invite your boss (but I agree with a PP that you should still invite your co-workers).

FWIW, more and more companies don't even provide references. They just say yes or no to an employee having worked at the company. If this superior is terminating the OP and not laying her off, my guess is that a wedding invitation or lack thereof isn't going to impact any assertion to having worked there.

Probably so. But some industries and work communities can be insular, so while not inviting a former boss to one's wedding shouldn't affect one in terms of HR references, bad word-of-mouth might negatively affect the career of someone who, however unintentionally, makes the boss feel slighted. This is not to say that I think the boss should be invited anyway or that it couldn't happen even if the boss was invited; it's just a potential consequence of not inviting him or her.

augustgirl21 · January 2018

Thanks for the advice. I had pretty much made up my mind to not invite her (or HER friends in the department. All of mine said they're still coming :-) because the reasons I was "fired" were bullshit...their words not mine but I do agree. ) My parents and fiance WOULD cause a scene if the see her (especially if alcohol gets involved)
I had to quit (looks better on my resume) and we have found that since I was forced to quit I could still qualify for unemployment should I choose to file for it. She bullied me and if I have documentation of it (I do) I would qualify for unemployment.
I am not however signing the "hush money" agreement they have sent me. My parents who retired from the same company (Dad still does contract work...for now) obviously have friends who still work there. They fully plan on giving their opinion to anyone who asks. With the agreement the company has written up, they could not do that.

MairePoppy · January 2018

This is one of those things where I'd say you no longer want a relationship with your boss, so don't bother with the invitation. As far as the others go, if you plan to maintain contact with them, send them invitations.

I'm sorry about your job. I hope a better one is waiting out there for you.

TrixieJess · January 2018

augustgirl21 said:

Thanks for the advice. I had pretty much made up my mind to not invite her (or HER friends in the department. All of mine said they're still coming :-) because the reasons I was "fired" were bullshit...their words not mine but I do agree. ) My parents and fiance WOULD cause a scene if the see her (especially if alcohol gets involved)
I had to quit (looks better on my resume) and we have found that since I was forced to quit I could still qualify for unemployment should I choose to file for it. She bullied me and if I have documentation of it (I do) I would qualify for unemployment.
I am not however signing the "hush money" agreement they have sent me. My parents who retired from the same company (Dad still does contract work...for now) obviously have friends who still work there. They fully plan on giving their opinion to anyone who asks. With the agreement the company has written up, they could not do that.

Do you not have a Labour Board that you can file a complaint with? I know up here that all of what you have written is in violation of our provincial labour laws.

short+sassy · January 2018

charlotte989875 said:

short+sassy said:

Ugh, infuriating! I had something similar happen to my friend. She went on a medical leave. She kept them apprised the whole time about her return date. That things were going well and she'd still be returning on X date, etc.
They "fired her" while she was out. Didn't even tell her over the phone. And this was a smaller office of 50 people. They sent her a letter of termination. And even worse, her term. date was two weeks before they even MAILED her the letter. Which screwed her out of two weeks of UE.
Then they put up an objection to her UE, claiming she had been a "no show", smh. So stupid! She had the documentation she'd given them. Including her e-mails that outlined her return date. They lost.

I wouldn't be surprised if your friend had an EEOC complaint with that.

I know not everyone wants to pursue that type of thing but what they did (based on what you wrote here) sounds not legal to me (also not a lawyer, but someone who teaches law courses).

She very seriously considered it. One of her good friends is an attorney, though not this type of law, and she had a few discussions with him to hash out the pros and cons of pursuing.

She ultimately decided not to because of the expense and hassle. But also because, although she works in a BIG industry (life insurance/investing), it is actually a pretty small community on the local level. She was worried about how it would look to a future employer, if they knew she'd sued her former employer.

When is it okay to not send and invite when a STD has been sent.

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