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When women aren't taken seriously

kimmiinthemittenkimmiinthemitten member
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in Wedding Woes
Obviously, this is a big frustration for most of us here; and I always appreciate that I can count on this forum to be filled with active, strong women who support each other and womens rights.

The past couple of weeks I have heard of a few really angering situations I wanted to share her.  I'm sure someone else has more to add and share (and vent).

A friend of a friend has recently found the resolve to leave her husband.  In the process, she was sexually assaulted in front of the kids.  When she reported it to the police, she was advised to really think about pressing charges, because as a stay at home mom, she wouldn't have any source of income if he was in jail.

Another friend of a friend was out shopping with her 14 year old daughter.  The daughter stayed behind with the cart while the mother ran to another aisle.  When she returned, she saw a man easily in his 30's pressuring her daughter for her phone number.  When she called the non-emergency line to report the behavior and man, she was told she should take it as a compliment.

What in the actual fuck?!  Why is it so hard to treat women with compassion and respect and take our safety seriously?




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Re: When women aren't taken seriously

  • kvrunskvruns member
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    Whaaaaaaaaaat?!?!?
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  • southernbelle0915southernbelle0915 mod
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    Both are so awful....Sometimes I think the women's movement has come a really long way and cultural change has followed. And then stories like that happen and it's like "wait this happened last week and not 50 years ago? wut?"
    *********************************************************************************

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  • MissKittyDangerMissKittyDanger member
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    jimmy fallon no GIF


    WTF! Both situations wtf!

    Seconding @southernbelle0915 some days we've come so far, but other days it's like ... what year are we?

    Do you know what the women said in both situations? Because I'm personally thinking I'd either be shocked into silence or flip shit.
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  • kimmiinthemittenkimmiinthemitten member
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    MissKittyDanger said:

    Do you know what the women said in both situations? Because I'm personally thinking I'd either be shocked into silence or flip shit.

    I believe nothing, or at least nothing impactful.  They just went on to vent to family/friends.

    H and I talk about this a lot, especially with his run.  He told me that one of the things that impacted him early in our relationship was when I told him about how women are taught as young as elementary school behaviors meant to protect us (walk in groups, key in the fingers, stairs in a parking garage, etc).  I don't even remember having this conversation with him (although I've probably had it with dozens of people LOL) but it's a great example of how male privilege blinds them to the dangerous realities of just being a woman in public.

    And it reminds me of how and why women stay silent, and question their gut, and make excuses for bad behavior.
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  • MissKittyDangerMissKittyDanger member
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    kimmiinthemitten said:
    MissKittyDanger said:

    Do you know what the women said in both situations? Because I'm personally thinking I'd either be shocked into silence or flip shit.

    I believe nothing, or at least nothing impactful.  They just went on to vent to family/friends.

    H and I talk about this a lot, especially with his run.  He told me that one of the things that impacted him early in our relationship was when I told him about how women are taught as young as elementary school behaviors meant to protect us (walk in groups, key in the fingers, stairs in a parking garage, etc).  I don't even remember having this conversation with him (although I've probably had it with dozens of people LOL) but it's a great example of how male privilege blinds them to the dangerous realities of just being a woman in public.

    And it reminds me of how and why women stay silent, and question their gut, and make excuses for bad behavior.
    I love how that convo impacted him!
    M and I have had the conversation about how we bring things up with our kid - boy or girl - and he said he wants to have a roughly similar conversation regardless. His words "Safety doesn't depend on gender"

    Basic points:
    - Don't walk alone because people are weird
    - Keep aware of your surroundings
    - Know your friends - if something happens, step in to stop or prevent something from happening


    M also wasn't aware how different the conversation goes with girls vs boys at such a young age until I mentioned it
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  • short+sassyshort+sassy member
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    @kimmiinthemitten and @MissKittyDanger, I think that's such a good point to make that we all are shaped by our experiences.  Men sometimes just don't know.  Not because they don't care.  Not because they are bad people.  But because they haven't been exposed to it.  As a white person myself, I feel that way about race.  I'm not a minority.  It's impossible for me to know what it is like in society to be a minority.  But I can listen and I can learn from other people's experiences.

    I saw a powerful video in either high school or college.  It was reactions from various people on what are they afraid of when it comes to romantic relationships.  I apologize to same sex couples out there, it seemed only hetero people were featured.  It didn't appear to be scripted but, in full disclosure, I'm sure it was heavily edited.  The video showed the male responses first.  Here's a sample of their fears I remember (which I'm sure most women would feel also):

    • I'm afraid she won't like me.
    • I'm afraid she'll leave me for someone else.
    • I'm afraid she'll think I'm not good enough for her.

    Here were the women's fears that were featured:

    • I'm afraid he'll rape me.
    • I'm afraid he'll hit me.
    • I'm afraid he'll kill me.
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  • Ro041Ro041 member
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    edited January 2018
    The guy asked how old I was in the chat room.  I said 12.  BAM - d*ck pic via IM almost immediately (although it took a while for it to creepily download one horizontal bar at a time.  These were the dial up days, of course).  

    ETA - @southernbelle0915 - that is the sad thing.  We all have countless stories and the (man) world seems shocked that this kind of behavior is so prevalent.  It's interesting how many different instances I remembered once I actually started thinking and talking about my past experiences.  That guy who blocked the laundry room door and flashed me in my old apartment and asked me to watch him?  Yeah - forgot about that one until H said he couldn't believe Louis CK's admissions and asked out loud how a man could do that.  

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  • MissKittyDangerMissKittyDanger member
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    Ro041 said:
    @kimmiinthemitten - my H and I talk a lot about those topics as well.  I remember recently telling H that the issues of sexual assault are almost like white noise to us.  I told him that none of what is being said is shocking to most of us, because it has happened to most of us on so many occasions that it's just kind of like, "yeah.  That kind of stuff happens to women."  For example, I asked him when he got his first unsolicited d*ck pic from a stranger online.  He was like, "uhhhhh never?"  I responded, "I got my first one in an AOL chat room at 12 years old."  Blew.  His.  Mind.  
    This is the greatest example ever!

    I was never on chats that could send or receive photos {uhm dc8p.com 4 lyf! lmao} so I got lucky.
    HOWEVER i also was brutally {and maybe stupidly?} honest with my parents about things. My bff and I were like 12/13 and we wanted to look up hot guys .... accidentally found porn. Went screaming to my mum {fun fact hotguys.com is likely porn lmao!} and she laughed but was glad we told her :')
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  • kimmiinthemittenkimmiinthemitten member
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    Ro041 said:
    The guy asked how old I was in the chat room.  I said 12.  BAM - d*ck pic via IM almost immediately (although it took a while for it to creepily download one horizontal bar at a time.  These were the dial up days, of course).  

    ETA - @southernbelle0915 - that is the sad thing.  We all have countless stories and the (man) world seems shocked that this kind of behavior is so prevalent.  It's interesting how many different instances I remembered once I actually started thinking and talking about my past experiences.  That guy who blocked the laundry room door and flashed me in my old apartment and asked me to watch him?  Yeah - forgot about that one until H said he couldn't believe Louis CK's admissions and asked out loud how a man could do that.  

    Trump's "grab em by the pussy" moment was this for me.  It made me realize how many times that's happened in my life and I've forgotten about it. 

    Your white noise comparison is so true.  Every weekend, all across this country, twenty-something year old women go the bar, prepared to fight off assault, except we're so used to it, we don't call it that.  Instead, we wear pumps (to stomp on toes), dance with our elbows out (to ward off pervs), put napkings in our beer bottles (so we're not drugged) and dance in a circle to create a safe space.  I did this for a decade, routinely, like a job.  I was so used to it, it never occurred to me how fucked up it was.

    Around the Trump video time, I had a conversation with a male colleague whose daughter recently graduated college.  I said, ask your daughter what she and her friends do at the bar to ward off creeps and you'll realize how pervasive it actually is.  He did, she was honest, he was baffled.

    I was "tickled above the tights" at 9.  Cat called at 11. My body was grabbed and commented on starting at 12.  And I'm a lucky one.  It's disgusting.

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  • ahoyweddingahoywedding member
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    Ugh this is so real. My H is pretty liberal & progressive, but even HE still doesn't get it sometimes. We were taking a road trip at Thanksgiving so I was in comfy clothes/do not care mode and some guy said something to me in a fast food restaurant. He saw me walking in the door, I went right to the bathroom. The guy was waiting when I got out and said something like he had "been waiting to stand behind me." I told H (he was waiting in the car with the dog), and all he said was "really? when you're dressed like that? I want to kick his ass." I know he meant it like....I clearly wasn't trying to impress anyone, so why would that guy say anything, but I had to explain to him that IT DOESN'T MATTER, those jerks are going to say something no matter what. That did start a good conversation about how harassment is just part of life for most women and how a lot of men are oblivious but it's so easy for them to not notice it.
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  • levioosalevioosa member
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    I’ve had a ton of instances, like everyone else here. I always think about this one thing that happened to me at my old restaurant job though. I had a table section in the back of the restaurant and this older man at one of my tables stopped me and told me he was going to hide behind the corner, catch me as I walked past it, and then spank me repeatedly. It was really creepy. I didn’t feel safe. So I told my manager I was giving up that section. He told me it wasn’t a big deal. I was overreacting.

    There was also another time when a man came into the restaurant when we first opened (so the restaurant was completely empty). The second this guy walked in my whole body went on red alert. And then he started to move closer and closer to me. I went and snagged the bus boy and told him to stay up front with me. I told my manager I didn’t feel safe. My manager laughed at me, pulled the bus boy to back of house, and then walked away. I was furious. Luckily my friend came in a few minutes later and he stood up front with me until the guy left. The guy didn’t even order anything. He just was standing in the lobby, staring at me and circling the podium like a fucking lion, until another man (my friend) stayed long enough to make him give up. As a more mature, less afraid woman now I would just walk away and tell my manager to shove it. But I was young. I was told I was imagining things, that I was overreacting. I felt guilty for “abandoning” my job. I felt pressured to put up with harassment because “it happens all the time.” Like what the ever loving fuck. 

    The fact that I feel “lucky” because the worst that’s happened to me is a pussy grab or a boob grab at a concert, because I’ve “just” been followed down the street, because I’ve “just” been catcalled, it’s beyond infuriating. What is this insanity that I feel lucky that I haven’t had worse things happen to me? It’s beyond words.


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  • short+sassyshort+sassy member
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    levioosa said:
    The fact that I feel “lucky” because the worst that’s happened to me is a pussy grab or a boob grab at a concert, because I’ve “just” been followed down the street, because I’ve “just” been catcalled, it’s beyond infuriating. What is this insanity that I feel lucky that I haven’t had worse things happen to me? It’s beyond words.

    I'm there with you.  Even reading your stories about the harassment you experienced at work...which were exponentially worse because your managers dismissed you, I was thinking, "That's awful and chilling.  I'm lucky I've only had one incident like that at work."  Ugh.

    An extra "creep" factor is how young I was.  I was 15 years old and had gotten a p/t fast food job at Jack-In-The-Box.  I had arrived for my shift and walked to an upstairs employee area that had lockers to put your stuff in.  One of the cooks came up, probably in his early 20s.  As I was walking back past him to go back to the staircase, he grabbed me...hard...by both my upper arms and pulled me into him and tried to kiss me.  I turned my face away, started screaming, and tried to wiggle away.  He stopped after about 20-30 seconds.  Thank God, because I don't think anyone could have heard me.  I didn't report it to a manager, so I can't say what they would have done.  I'm not sure why.  I think I was still too young and naïve to realize what a dangerous person he might be and that he could do it again (he didn't).

    Lots of other incidents, just not at work, and "lucky" they were "only" in the grab-ass category.  One that sticks out the most happened on Halloween.  My b/f (now H) and I were strolling up and down Bourbon St. enjoying all the costumes.  I was dressed like a 1940's cigarette girl and was wearing a strapless bustier.

    As most of you are probably aware, there is a tradition in New Orleans of people showing off their "goods" in exchange for beads.  It happens to both men and women, but it is typically men asking women to show their chest.

    Some may disagree but, personally, I don't get offended by it.  Lots of people say "no" and I've rarely seen an "asker" get pushy.  But then it happened to me.

    A guy walking past us from the other direction showed me the beads he wanted to give me to show him "the girls".  I politely declined and wished him a Happy Halloween.  But then he started following us and kept begging me to flash him.  I explained to him...again...that it's really not something I do and I'm not interested.  Then he reaches over, puts his fingers on the top of one side of the bustier and starts to pull down.  I violently raised my arm on that same side to move his hand/arm away from me.  Then I took both my hands and shoved him in the chest as hard as I could while screaming, "WHAT THE F**K DO YOU THINK YOU'RE DOING?!?!  GET THE F**K AWAY FROM ME!"

    To give him slight credit, he seemed to "snap back" to the reality that party time on Halloween doesn't mean he gets to assault women.  He started falling all over himself apologizing.

    A little while later, I asked my H why he'd been so calm, cool, and collected during the incident.  I didn't think most guys would be.  He said something like, "It happened so fast and, by the time I realized what was going on, you did NOT need my help!  You were shredding that guy with your fury better than anything I could have done." 

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  • MandyMostMandyMost member
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    kimmiinthemitten said:
    Another friend of a friend was out shopping with her 14 year old daughter.  The daughter stayed behind with the cart while the mother ran to another aisle.  When she returned, she saw a man easily in his 30's pressuring her daughter for her phone number.  When she called the non-emergency line to report the behavior and man, she was told she should take it as a compliment.
    I think sometimes men read a thread like this and think that ANYTHING they do is harassment/assault. I think one thing the female community can do is to also explain what is NOT harassment/assault. For instance, an adult male (of any age) asking an adult female (of any age) for her phone number when in a public place is absolutely acceptable behavior and not assault or harassment. The actions that constitute harassment/assault, are 1. not taking no for an answer and calmly walking away, 2. assuming that unwanted attention is a complement, and deriding a woman who doesn't take it that way, and 3. the fact that she was not an adult (even though some 14 year olds look much older, I don't think that's really a justification). Finally, men need to accept that while THEY may be harmless (harmless creeps, but still harmless), there is NO WAY for a woman to know this. Not taking "No" for an answer is terrifying for a woman, because she has no idea of what is going to happen next--she doesn't know you're not going to follow her or assault her.  
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  • short+sassyshort+sassy member
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    MandyMost said:
    kimmiinthemitten said:
    Another friend of a friend was out shopping with her 14 year old daughter.  The daughter stayed behind with the cart while the mother ran to another aisle.  When she returned, she saw a man easily in his 30's pressuring her daughter for her phone number.  When she called the non-emergency line to report the behavior and man, she was told she should take it as a compliment.
    I think sometimes men read a thread like this and think that ANYTHING they do is harassment/assault. I think one thing the female community can do is to also explain what is NOT harassment/assault. For instance, an adult male (of any age) asking an adult female (of any age) for her phone number when in a public place is absolutely acceptable behavior and not assault or harassment. The actions that constitute harassment/assault, are 1. not taking no for an answer and calmly walking away, 2. assuming that unwanted attention is a complement, and deriding a woman who doesn't take it that way, and 3. the fact that she was not an adult (even though some 14 year olds look much older, I don't think that's really a justification). Finally, men need to accept that while THEY may be harmless (harmless creeps, but still harmless), there is NO WAY for a woman to know this. Not taking "No" for an answer is terrifying for a woman, because she has no idea of what is going to happen next--she doesn't know you're not going to follow her or assault her.  


    I strongly agree with this!  I have never been offended when someone has politely asked me out...whether at a bar/school/wherever...and politely accepted my decline (if applicable).  I am always kind, even if he was a major "no way", lol.

    I'll even give credit to the (slightly) older guys who asked me out when I was underage.  I would typically respond with a, "I'm sorry, but I'm actually only 16."  Usually, that was met with a horrified look and a, "I'm so sorry!!!  I thought you were older."  As it should be, lol.

    However, if he looked to be older than his 20's, then my comment was said in a heavily snarky tone with a scowl.  I don't have anything against a 45-year-old asking out a 28-year-old.  But I sure do with a 35-year-old asking out a woman who is maybe 18.

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  • mrsconn23mrsconn23 member
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    STARMOON44 said:
    charlotte989875 said:
    MandyMost said:
    kimmiinthemitten said:
    Another friend of a friend was out shopping with her 14 year old daughter.  The daughter stayed behind with the cart while the mother ran to another aisle.  When she returned, she saw a man easily in his 30's pressuring her daughter for her phone number.  When she called the non-emergency line to report the behavior and man, she was told she should take it as a compliment.
    I think sometimes men read a thread like this and think that ANYTHING they do is harassment/assault. I think one thing the female community can do is to also explain what is NOT harassment/assault. For instance, an adult male (of any age) asking an adult female (of any age) for her phone number when in a public place is absolutely acceptable behavior and not assault or harassment. The actions that constitute harassment/assault, are 1. not taking no for an answer and calmly walking away, 2. assuming that unwanted attention is a complement, and deriding a woman who doesn't take it that way, and 3. the fact that she was not an adult (even though some 14 year olds look much older, I don't think that's really a justification). Finally, men need to accept that while THEY may be harmless (harmless creeps, but still harmless), there is NO WAY for a woman to know this. Not taking "No" for an answer is terrifying for a woman, because she has no idea of what is going to happen next--she doesn't know you're not going to follow her or assault her.  
    I disagree with a lot of this; if everything in this thread is inappropriate and if a man looks at this and thinks “well I can’t even have a conversation with a woman because everything is harassment/abuse/inappropriate” then he should look at his behavior and stop doing it. 

    Why is an adult male walking up to an adult female and asking for her number socially acceptable? She doesn’t owe him her time or attention, even if it’s to decline. Why should she? The same thing with men asking women to smile on the street; why is this acceptable? 

    I don’t mean all these questions specifically to you @MandyMost, just more broadly. 

    I’m not saying strangers should never talk to one another, but if there is unwanted attention (catcalling, asking for numbers, requests to smile, whatever) why is it on the woman to have to explain why the behavior is unwanted, repeatedly, for this behavior to be seen as unacceptable? Why not just stop the behavior in the first place? I promise people will still find a way to meet new people/fall in love/whatever and women aren’t bothered going about their lives. 
    Yeah no. You aren’t entitled to approach a total stranger just going about her life and ask her number. Nope. 
    Yep.  I've never understood this mentality.  Just because someone piques your interested (or boner) doesn't mean you just get to start talking to them and they owe you conversation back. 
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  • MissKittyDangerMissKittyDanger member
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    Something happened last night, made me think of this forum.

    So some dude DM'd me last night on instagram. Cool, whatever. We're chatting, he says something and I felt necessary to mention I'm married {also mentioned that I wasn't insinuating anything, just more an fyi}

    Then he legit starts flirting with me. Subtle at first, but then gets more obvious. I'm legit turning him down - "send me a selfie?" "no" - then he got disappointed I wouldn't send him any photos. I mention that I did state I'm married, and that I don't feel it's appropriate to send photos. Anything he wanted to see {my tattoos in this moment} were on my feed and he was welcome to look.
    He basically states that clearly I'm upset with him so he'll stop talking to me.


    Wtf? I wasn't upset, I just stated I didn't feel sending him photos {not inappropriate ones, but who knows where it could have lead?} was okay considering I am married.

    Guys claim women get offended over stupid shit, but this legit proves that guys do.
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  • STARMOON44STARMOON44 member
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    southernbelle0915 said:
    So I'm in the middle (of @MandyMost and @charlotte989875). I agree that if a man came into this thread and threw up his hands to say he can't even talk to women, he's being ridiculous. Everything cited on this thread is grossly inappropriate and if a man can't see that, he IS the problem.

    But re. an adult man (or woman) asking for the phone number of another adult (man or woman), I don't see such a problem with this. Personally, I don't think it's appropriate to ask someone who's wearing a wedding ring or is obviously pregnant or is obviously on a date/otherwise engaged with someone else.

    I also think approach is really important. There's a MASSIVE difference between someone screaming on the sidewalk asking for my number/coming up to me licking his lips and looking me up and down while asking for my phone number....and someone coming up to me and politely saying something like "excuse me, this might sound really crazy, but would you like to get a drink/get coffee sometime? and could I have your phone number?" And importantly, if I say "I'm not interested" the conversation ends. That approach, I really have no problem with. 
    I do. I so do. Start a conversation like a normal human being with a greeting. If I seem at all interested in speaking to you, perhaps a comment on the weather, or the length of the line we are waiting in at the post office. See what I say. If we wind up having a little chat, sure, ask for my number. But as an initial ask? No. And why would I? You’re a total stranger, you’re violating social norms, and you feel entitled to my time. It’s rude and it feels threatening. 
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  • ei34ei34 member
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    STARMOON44 said:
    southernbelle0915 said:
    So I'm in the middle (of @MandyMost and @charlotte989875). I agree that if a man came into this thread and threw up his hands to say he can't even talk to women, he's being ridiculous. Everything cited on this thread is grossly inappropriate and if a man can't see that, he IS the problem.

    But re. an adult man (or woman) asking for the phone number of another adult (man or woman), I don't see such a problem with this. Personally, I don't think it's appropriate to ask someone who's wearing a wedding ring or is obviously pregnant or is obviously on a date/otherwise engaged with someone else.

    I also think approach is really important. There's a MASSIVE difference between someone screaming on the sidewalk asking for my number/coming up to me licking his lips and looking me up and down while asking for my phone number....and someone coming up to me and politely saying something like "excuse me, this might sound really crazy, but would you like to get a drink/get coffee sometime? and could I have your phone number?" And importantly, if I say "I'm not interested" the conversation ends. That approach, I really have no problem with. 
    I do. I so do. Start a conversation like a normal human being with a greeting. If I seem at all interested in speaking to you, perhaps a comment on the weather, or the length of the line we are waiting in at the post office. See what I say. If we wind up having a little chat, sure, ask for my number. But as an initial ask? No. And why would I? You’re a total stranger, you’re violating social norms, and you feel entitled to my time. It’s rude and it feels threatening. 
    Agreed.  Regardless of approach, I’ve never not felt weirded out when a man asked me out on a date/for my number within the first few minutes of meeting.
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  • mrsconn23mrsconn23 member
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    http://www.scarymommy.com/twitter-thread-women-being-rude-protect-themselves/?utm_source=FB
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  • Ro041Ro041 member
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    OMG @mrsconn23 I just came to this thread to post that twitter story!

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  • MissKittyDangerMissKittyDanger member
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    @mrsconn23 Omg .... that's terrifying :( 
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  • ei34ei34 member
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    @mrsconn23 the responses kill me...what a freaking world we live in 
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