How do I deal with Future Mother in Law (FMIL)

thisismynickname2 · June 2018

short+sassy said:

6fsn said:

I wonder what aspects they are trying to add though. I reading from the Bible? Lay people do that every day. A pray? yep, lay people do that too.

I interpreted "religious undertones" to be much more general and that it would not include anything specifically Catholic. The ceremony might mention God, have prayers, perhaps a quote from the Bible. Any, none, or all of that. So I'm also a little confused by that.
If that's the case, the FMIL...at least for that aspect...would be trying to push her own religious beliefs/views on the ceremony. I don't want to speak for other religions or other parts of Christianity, so I'll speak for what I know. I was married outside, not in or near a church, by a Lutheran pastor (I was raised Lutheran). Prayers were said. God was mentioned multiple times. None of that is considered disrespectful to God for us and probably all/most Protestant sects. I'm sure it's not disrespectful for agnostics either.
I would have thought that was true for Catholicism and Greek Orthodox also. So maybe this is a FMIL thing. Or maybe I'm wrong and/or misunderstanding something.

Speaking as a confirmed Catholic who married another confirmed Catholic and both easily chose not to have a Catholic wedding as we've both totally fallen off the church-going wagon... We chose to have religious undertones. We found a former Catholic priest to officiate. We had a Bible reading, a non-Bible reading, the Our Father, and the officiant's "script" was spiritual in nature.

So, I agree 100% with S&S here.

Catholics, and any other organized religion, do not hold a monopoly on prayer.
In fact, I'd recommend what we did to the OP here. My very Catholic MIL and very Catholic father were both happy with our ceremony, even though it was not the Sacrament of Marriage.

ILoveBeachMusic · June 2018

banana468 said:

ILoveBeachMusic said:

6fsn said:

This is kind of interesting. A Catholic cannot become ordained in another church to perform the ceremony, but a Catholic JP could do a civil ceremony.
https://www.catholic.com/qa/can-i-be-ordained-online-to-officiate-a-wedding
As someone who constantly gets asked about my religion I make a statement and move on. To my SIL who asks to get a rise out of me I just say I won't discuss it. If someone else happens to ask (a rarity) I will do my best to explain. If your MIL is as great as you say, simply tell her that you are working on discerning your faith.

That is interesting. I wonder how many Catholics are really aware of this? I can think of a few who have officiated at civil ceremonies and weren't civil servants themselves.

It make sense. You can't ordain yourself in another church because then in what church are you a member?

I agree that there are plenty of Catholics who just have poor Catechesis. Often the requirements for marriage within the church aren't emphasized or remembered when the last of instruction that many Catholics get are in preparation for Confirmation which is usually in early teens. Then a lot is forgotten.

I agree and this is also why I have a problem with the term "ordained" for the on line process. The people who do this aren't really joining that particular church (or aren't from what I have been led to understand) and subscribing to a certain theology. A better term would be certified. I wonder if the Catholic church would accept that - for a Catholic to be certified

lovesclimbing · June 2018

Slightly off topic, but sort of on the same page regarding rules of Catholic marriage, I just ran across this article this morning.

It's about Catholic leaders slowly loosening the rules around where you need to get married in hopes young people will get married with the church's blessing instead of choosing to be out of good standing because they want to get married somewhere other than a church.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2018/06/11/catholics-can-get-married-outdoors-in-two-places-in-montana-and-now-in-baltimore/

STARMOON44 · June 2018

lovesclimbing said:

Slightly off topic, but sort of on the same page regarding rules of Catholic marriage, I just ran across this article this morning.

It's about Catholic leaders slowly loosening the rules around where you need to get married in hopes young people will get married with the church's blessing instead of choosing to be out of good standing because they want to get married somewhere other than a church.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2018/06/11/catholics-can-get-married-outdoors-in-two-places-in-montana-and-now-in-baltimore/

So interesting! I really think the church loses so many couples because it refuses to be flexible. It’s a time when people are turning to the church, you want to welcome that! Even for parishes that aren’t going this far, just minimal things like not requiring 6 months attendance to book a date, or recognizing that people are more mobile and have lots of reasons to want to get married in a different church than they attend, or making it easier to chose the time and format of pre Cana, or generally an attitude of trying to say yes would all be so helpful.

MobKaz · June 2018

STARMOON44 said:

lovesclimbing said:

Slightly off topic, but sort of on the same page regarding rules of Catholic marriage, I just ran across this article this morning.

It's about Catholic leaders slowly loosening the rules around where you need to get married in hopes young people will get married with the church's blessing instead of choosing to be out of good standing because they want to get married somewhere other than a church.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2018/06/11/catholics-can-get-married-outdoors-in-two-places-in-montana-and-now-in-baltimore/

So interesting! I really think the church loses so many couples because it refuses to be flexible. It’s a time when people are turning to the church, you want to welcome that! Even for parishes that aren’t going this far, just minimal things like not requiring 6 months attendance to book a date, or recognizing that people are more mobile and have lots of reasons to want to get married in a different church than they attend, or making it easier to chose the time and format of pre Cana, or generally an attitude of trying to say yes would all be so helpful.

I have mixed feelings about this.

"But priests came to the chancellor’s office saying more and more young people were skipping Catholic marriage ceremonies altogether because they wanted a personalized venue. So Baltimore decided to take a route that the Diocese of Helena, Mont., took two years ago — allowing priests to perform wedding ceremonies in an array of locations, including outdoors."

I can't think of a more personalized "venue" than the church in which I received all my sacraments. I also have never thought of my church as a venue.

I have never heard that the "rule" was your parish or bust. I know many Catholics who did marry in a Catholic church, but not necessarily their parish church. I am also not aware of an attendance requirement. Pre-Cana classes involve volunteers that have lives and schedules of their own. My DD had multiple options regarding class styles and locations when she and her husband attended their classes.

There are absolutely parishes that are extremely rigid in their practices. There are also others, as mine does, that offer a considerable amount of flexibility on many issues.

STARMOON44 · June 2018

MobKaz said:

STARMOON44 said:

lovesclimbing said:

Slightly off topic, but sort of on the same page regarding rules of Catholic marriage, I just ran across this article this morning.

It's about Catholic leaders slowly loosening the rules around where you need to get married in hopes young people will get married with the church's blessing instead of choosing to be out of good standing because they want to get married somewhere other than a church.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2018/06/11/catholics-can-get-married-outdoors-in-two-places-in-montana-and-now-in-baltimore/

So interesting! I really think the church loses so many couples because it refuses to be flexible. It’s a time when people are turning to the church, you want to welcome that! Even for parishes that aren’t going this far, just minimal things like not requiring 6 months attendance to book a date, or recognizing that people are more mobile and have lots of reasons to want to get married in a different church than they attend, or making it easier to chose the time and format of pre Cana, or generally an attitude of trying to say yes would all be so helpful.

I have mixed feelings about this.

"But priests came to the chancellor’s office saying more and more young people were skipping Catholic marriage ceremonies altogether because they wanted a personalized venue. So Baltimore decided to take a route that the Diocese of Helena, Mont., took two years ago — allowing priests to perform wedding ceremonies in an array of locations, including outdoors."

I can't think of a more personalized "venue" than the church in which I received all my sacraments. I also have never thought of my church as a venue.

I have never heard that the "rule" was your parish or bust. I know many Catholics who did marry in a Catholic church, but not necessarily their parish church. I am also not aware of an attendance requirement. Pre-Cana classes involve volunteers that have lives and schedules of their own. My DD had multiple options regarding class styles and locations when she and her husband attended their classes.

There are absolutely parishes that are extremely rigid in their practices. There are also others, as mine does, that offer a considerable amount of flexibility on many issues.

Attendance requirements are super common where I am. And I do get it, but also you’re pretty much guaranteeing then that a couple who hasn’t been attending church regularly, but feels a connection to the church, isn’t going to have a church wedding because realistically people aren’t willing to get engaged, spend 6 months regularly attending church, and only then be able to start talking about dates.

charlotte989875 · June 2018

MobKaz said:

STARMOON44 said:

lovesclimbing said:

Slightly off topic, but sort of on the same page regarding rules of Catholic marriage, I just ran across this article this morning.

It's about Catholic leaders slowly loosening the rules around where you need to get married in hopes young people will get married with the church's blessing instead of choosing to be out of good standing because they want to get married somewhere other than a church.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2018/06/11/catholics-can-get-married-outdoors-in-two-places-in-montana-and-now-in-baltimore/

So interesting! I really think the church loses so many couples because it refuses to be flexible. It’s a time when people are turning to the church, you want to welcome that! Even for parishes that aren’t going this far, just minimal things like not requiring 6 months attendance to book a date, or recognizing that people are more mobile and have lots of reasons to want to get married in a different church than they attend, or making it easier to chose the time and format of pre Cana, or generally an attitude of trying to say yes would all be so helpful.

I have mixed feelings about this.

"But priests came to the chancellor’s office saying more and more young people were skipping Catholic marriage ceremonies altogether because they wanted a personalized venue. So Baltimore decided to take a route that the Diocese of Helena, Mont., took two years ago — allowing priests to perform wedding ceremonies in an array of locations, including outdoors."

I can't think of a more personalized "venue" than the church in which I received all my sacraments. I also have never thought of my church as a venue.

I have never heard that the "rule" was your parish or bust. I know many Catholics who did marry in a Catholic church, but not necessarily their parish church. I am also not aware of an attendance requirement. Pre-Cana classes involve volunteers that have lives and schedules of their own. My DD had multiple options regarding class styles and locations when she and her husband attended their classes.

There are absolutely parishes that are extremely rigid in their practices. There are also others, as mine does, that offer a considerable amount of flexibility on many issues.

I think this may historically be true for many people, but is increasingly not the case. H and I have lived in 4 cities in 4 years. My "home" church (where I was baptized, confirmed, etc.) changed significantly, so much so that my mother (who is pretty religious and a regular attendee) even left. It became far more conservative (politically, socially, religiously) and I would not be married there.

So we found a progressive church that would marry us. I'm not that religious (I like to think of myself as spiritual and secular rather than religious), but I grew up in the church and wanted a ceremony in a church. So we found one that fit with our values (i.e. it allows women to hold high leadership roles, it marries opposite and same-gender couples, recognizes that couples need to plan the time and spacing of families, etc.). Maybe this is church shopping, or treating a church as a venue, but had they not been as flexible (and progressive) as they are we wouldn't have been married in a church at all.

thisismynickname2 · June 2018

I think it's one thing to change parishes and choose the church that most "fits" you, and other thing to treat a Church as a venue. I know some of the downtown Chicago parishes have strict rules about who can marry there because the buildings are gorgeous- people do treat the Church as a "venue" (and status symbol to boot) and not as a place to receive the Sacrament.

But that being said, if some parishes are loosening their rules and allowing the Sacrament to be performed elsewhere, like maybe an outdoor garden or something, then great.

banana468 · June 2018

I think it's all in how the rule loosening can be done. Not all churches require you to be a member there for 6 months but you do need to show proof that you're a Catholic in good standing and THEN you need to pay a non member premium.

Ex: Newport RI is a major tourist destination and wedding location. Catholic churches will charge over $1000 for non members because they don't want to be used just as a pretty backdrop AND there are major fees to run facilities in that area.

charlotte989875 · June 2018

banana468 said:

I think it's all in how the rule loosening can be done. Not all churches require you to be a member there for 6 months but you do need to show proof that you're a Catholic in good standing and THEN you need to pay a non member premium.

Ex: Newport RI is a major tourist destination and wedding location. Catholic churches will charge over $1000 for non members because they don't want to be used just as a pretty backdrop AND there are major fees to run facilities in that area.

Yup.

We paid the $1000 fee to use the church, and I really don't see a problem with it. They actually didn't mind having the church used by non-members and the fee wasn't presented as a deterrent to using the church, but it did cover the pastor's time, the organist, the programs, lighting, etc.

The church benefited and so did we. I guess I don't see the problem with this.

ILoveBeachMusic · June 2018

banana468 said:

I think it's all in how the rule loosening can be done. Not all churches require you to be a member there for 6 months but you do need to show proof that you're a Catholic in good standing and THEN you need to pay a non member premium.

Ex: Newport RI is a major tourist destination and wedding location. Catholic churches will charge over $1000 for non members because they don't want to be used just as a pretty backdrop AND there are major fees to run facilities in that area.

DD's church (downtown Chicago) charged them $1000 to use the church (she and SIL were/are members) not including the musicians and the priest.

6fsn · June 2018

Completely off topic, but the title is making me laugh a little "Future Mother in Law (FMIL)"

banana468 · August 2018

STARMOON44 said:

banana468 said:

knottieda10bcd9733d97aa said:

Help! I need some suggestions on how to deal with this situation.

My question is, how do I establish a boundary, and *very gently and kindly let her know what her place is in all of this? How do I explain that I'm not sure of where I stand on my faith and that I wish for that to be respected, as I respect her practices and beliefs to be her own? If I don't establish a clear boundary now then I will have trouble with this for probably many years. Thank you!

So one thing is sticking to me in the above and it's why I think the OP may have some issues with the MIL. I hope that you and your FI really look into what it means to have a religious or non religious ceremony full stop. I said that before but this isn't something that's just easily remedied like by going back to church and everything is fine. So some research may be needed on your end to ensure your'e both making the right decision together for the two of you.

Second, I also agree with @mrsconn23 that the put her in her place mindset isn't necessarily the right way to go. Think of the marriage as the beginning here. And this is building a relationship that you're going to have with this woman for a long time. A put in place mindset rarely goes over well with anyone especially if you will possibly share holidays.

Idk why you’re assuming they hasn’t done their research, aren’t fully aware, and aren’t 100 percent okay with this.

I am making the assumption that the FI is some kind of Catholic. If he is, they're not going to find a JP who is Catholic who will do this. It's not congruent with the faith of a Catholic to preside over a marriage ceremony of someone of his/her faith who intends to marry outside it. If the OP thinks that she's found someone to do this I am doubtful.

Also, the OP says that she's not sure where she stands in her faith. That's telling me that if she's not sure where she's standing can't be 100 % OK with it. And again, the things she proposes aren't things that can work with a practicing Catholic so it's sounding like she's created a proposed solution in her head alone.

ILoveBeachMusic · August 2018

banana468 said:

ILoveBeachMusic said:

6fsn said:

This is kind of interesting. A Catholic cannot become ordained in another church to perform the ceremony, but a Catholic JP could do a civil ceremony.
https://www.catholic.com/qa/can-i-be-ordained-online-to-officiate-a-wedding
As someone who constantly gets asked about my religion I make a statement and move on. To my SIL who asks to get a rise out of me I just say I won't discuss it. If someone else happens to ask (a rarity) I will do my best to explain. If your MIL is as great as you say, simply tell her that you are working on discerning your faith.

That is interesting. I wonder how many Catholics are really aware of this? I can think of a few who have officiated at civil ceremonies and weren't civil servants themselves.

It make sense. You can't ordain yourself in another church because then in what church are you a member?

I agree that there are plenty of Catholics who just have poor Catechesis. Often the requirements for marriage within the church aren't emphasized or remembered when the last of instruction that many Catholics get are in preparation for Confirmation which is usually in early teens. Then a lot is forgotten.

I agree and this is also why I have a problem with the term "ordained" for the on line process. The people who do this aren't really joining that particular church (or aren't from what I have been led to understand) and subscribing to a certain theology. A better term would be certified. I wonder if the Catholic church would accept that - for a Catholic to be certified in order to perform a marriage ceremony for non-Catholics.

MobKaz · August 2018

knottieda10bcd9733d97aa said:

Help! I need some suggestions on how to deal with this situation.

For some background, FH and I have been together for about 9 years now. It's been wonderful! His mom is actually one of the nicest, kindest, and wonderful people in my life, which is why this situation has caused such anxiety for me. The whole time FH and I dated she was nothing but kind and generous. When we got engaged and set a date, things started to change.

First, she came with us to the venue we wanted and took a tour - we all loved it! That was just about the only thing we've agreed on so far.

She would always be asking me questions about the wedding and I have been doing my best to dodge them, as I realize we have completely different visions on how this day will go - overall I'm not sure she realizes her place in all of this. Her children are quite literally the center of her world and she would do anything for them, but I am not sure she realizes that there is a whole other family involved and that decisions are being made between her son and....the bride?

Anyway, so first she would ask me questions about what I was thinking about the color palate - I told her burgundy, blush, golds, lots of greenery (it's a fall wedding). She didn't really say anything but it was clear she wasn't a fan. Not a big deal in this case. Then I would mention things like the fact that I don't want to bother with favors because people don't usually take them and she goes on about how she can do them, which I took as her wanting to help so I let that one go too. Then she had a problem with the number of people in the wedding party (6 on each side) and seemed personally offended by that decision, and that it was way too many. I can cut her daughter out if she wants?? And then she had a problem with one of the girls I wanted to have in it, etc. She also kept suggesting this VERY expensive dessert option that just isn't in the budget (she is paying for the rehearsal dinner - we are paying for the wedding with some help from my parents) - though later on she did mention that it's expensive. Again, all minor things that I'm not going to lose sleep over.

But here's the one thing I can't let go. She is deeply deeply Catholic. I think it's wonderful that she has a faith and a community that she loves so much and it makes her happy. I would never in a million years try to tell someone how they should live their lives or what they should believe or how they should marry their partner. But I don't feel like that respect of one's beliefs is being reciprocated. We broke the news to her that we won't be getting married in the Catholic church and she was upset but took it better than I thought. But then she made it clear that it was unacceptable to be married by a JP, even a practicing Catholic, and that it wasn't okay to just have "religious undertones" as was/is our intention, and that it would be disrespectful to god.

My question is, how do I establish a boundary, and *very gently and kindly let her know what her place is in all of this? How do I explain that I'm not sure of where I stand on my faith and that I wish for that to be respected, as I respect her practices and beliefs to be her own? If I don't establish a clear boundary now then I will have trouble with this for probably many years. Thank you!

Is your FI a practicing Catholic? If you choose to have children, have you discussed whether you will baptize them and/or raise them as Catholics? If you and your FI have things clear between yourselves, then the rest will just have to fall into place with time.

I understand your FMIL. I am fairly old school Catholic, and have been a MOB and MOG. My DD married in the Sacrament of Marriage. My DS married in an extremely secular ceremony void of any prayer. His officiant was a childhood friend who became ordained via .com. Unfortunately, what your FMIL must understand is that YOUR wedding has nothing to do with her. Your wedding must represent who YOU and your FI are as a couple. Had my son married in any way other than the way he did, it would have been disrespectful to me. He does not practice the faith. Although never said aloud, I am fairly certain he is agnostic. Does it bother me that faith does not fulfill or sustain him in the way it does me? 100% But it would bother me more for him to pretend. I focused on the love he and his wife have for each other, and how each brings out the best in the other.

Because she has offered to host the rehearsal dinner, give her all the latitude she wants in the planning. But the wedding is a reflection of you and your FI. Stop sharing so many details, particularly those in which you want no input. If she asks, simply tell her that there are some details you want to hold as a surprise. The number of guests in your wedding party are only necessary as they pertain to invitations to the rehearsal dinner. Thank her for her input and let it go. It sounds to me as if your FI may have to start weaning his mom from her role as #1 in his life. Your FI needs to be the one to start establishing small but firm boundaries.

MobKaz · August 2018

Too pooped to care any more...

MobKaz · August 2018

Go away

MobKaz · August 2018

Why, I ought to.....

MobKaz · August 2018

Enough!

MobKaz · August 2018

MobKaz · August 2018

Spent

MobKaz · August 2018

Mother of Mary

MobKaz · August 2018

JMJ

MobKaz · August 2018

SOS

MobKaz · August 2018

Send meds....

MobKaz · August 2018

867-5309

MobKaz · August 2018

I want you back.

MobKaz · August 2018

Stop! The love you save may be your own..

MobKaz · August 2018

I'm bringing you a love that's true, so get ready...

MobKaz · August 2018

So long, sweet summer. I stumbled upon you and gratefully basked in your rays...

How do I deal with Future Mother in Law (FMIL)

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