Wedding Woes
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I think it's over.

Dear Prudence, 

One of my best friends cannot have children. She and her husband spent years trying to conceive and only gave up after they’d spent all their money on fertility treatment. Obviously, it’s heartbreaking. I, on the other hand, had an unplanned pregnancy immediately after getting married. We were able to navigate that well; she demonstrated a lot of strength, and I tried hard to be conscientious. Shortly after she and her husband gave up for good, I had another unplanned pregnancy. Again, I tried hard to be sensitive, but now my baby is a month old, and I haven’t seen my friend since before I was pregnant. We’ve kept in touch via text and social media but rarely if ever talked about my children. When my baby was born, we had a medical emergency that meant he spent a week in the hospital. It was devastating and frightening, but my friend only sent one text and “liked” my social media updates.

Now that the crisis is over, and we’re settling into a normal daily life, I’m pretty upset at the distance my friend has maintained. I know I can’t actually understand the pain she’s been through, but I nearly lost my child and barely heard from her. I’ve really tried to be understanding, but I’m hurt. I didn’t want to let our differences in fertility come between us, but it feels like the friendship is over. If I were to talk to her about this, I’d want it to be face to face, but honestly I’m busy with two little kids now. After the way she’s blown us off, it doesn’t feel worth the effort to try to arrange a time to get together. Is this friendship over, or am I missing a sensitivity chip?

—Ready to Move On

Re: I think it's over.

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    I wouldn’t jump to the jealousy conclusion right away.  Maybe something else is going on in her friends life and she’s just giving her space.  I will admit, i get busy and caught up in my own life from time to time and I feel like a sucky friend because I forget to keep in touch. 

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    If you can't make time to talk to your friend, then yes, it's over. 

    I think I can see both sides here. The friend is having to deal with never being a mother while watching her friend keep popping out kids she didn't plan for. No matter how hard you try not to insert yourself, it would be nearly impossible to not have some jealousy, resentment, "why her but not me" thoughts.
    OTOH, LW has done nothing wrong here. She keeps conversations about her kids to a minimum and I would also be hurt if one of my best friends basically ignored such an emergency with the newborn.

    But if LW isn't willing to even talk to her friend, then why is she even writing to Prudie? The friendship has faded. If I were LW, I'd want to make the time to at the very least have a "I'm sorry that our lives have gone in such different directions that we no longer have much in common and our friendship is fizzling. I wish you the best" type conversation with her. But she's too busy. So just let it go.
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    My understanding is that psychological experts compare the stress level that is experienced when dealing with infertility to that of a person going through cancer treatment.   

    In addition, this is a person who is not only infertile and has potentially dealt with the stress of spending money on something that will not come to fruition but is also experiencing the stress that hormonal fluctuations from fertility treatments and the havoc that they wreak on the human system.   I really really wish that our medical system worked in conjunction with therapists.  The reproductive endocrinologists should have a team of therapists that they can refer patients to who are not seeing the desired outcome.   This friend is going to need to process and grieve for the kids that she is not able to biologically have.   Those are real emotions and hopefully she is able to come to terms with them.

    I think the LW needs to cut her friend more slack and reach out to her.     I can understand her feelings of not understanding why she wasn't called but aside from possibly not knowing how to handle it, I often don't call new moms because I don't want to inundate them when their stress bag is full.   

    If LW determines that her friend is not able to extend mutual courtesy or simply be there for her then the relationship may be fizzling but perhaps LW can also see how her friend is doing too. 
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    VarunaTT said:
    Honestly, LW is kind of turning my stomach here.  It feels like she wants a cookie for having been so understanding of her friend and then is demanding friend put aside feelings that LW was "so understanding" of.  When she doesn't even know why friend wasn't there.

    Additionally, as a friend non-family member, I would've kept my hands out of the newborn emergency.  There's a great article about the circles that surround people when a crisis is going on and being conscious of your circle and how it relates to the crisis.  If I'm not inner circle with something like that, I don't want to take that person's energy and focus onto me, for any reason.  And if friend couldn't make it past her own issues to not help LW, friend made the right decision:  http://articles.latimes.com/2013/apr/07/opinion/la-oe-0407-silk-ring-theory-20130407

    The presumption that her friend can't "get over" personal issues to help her seems rather selfish and self-centered, at this point.  Especially with the comment about, "I'm busy with two kids."  If LW wants to keep the friendship, reaching out to let friend know that LW is ready for communication is good, but LW also sounds like she doesn't want to and wants validation.
    Exactly @VarunaTT!  There's something about the way that the LW wrote this that things just seem to happen to the LW and her friend needs to reach out to her about all the stress in HER life.

    Life is stress.  And I have to presume that the LW knows how kids are made so there's something that's a little eyeroll inducing with the 'another unplanned' pregnancy implying that these are things happening to LW that are somehow out of her control but the friend should put the infertility issues aside and ask how she's doing.   

    Has the LW called in a babysitter or asked her H to watch the kids so she can take the friend out for coffee or drinks and catch up and ask her how she's doing?  

    FFS - just because you have kids doesn't mean that your stresses are now more important.
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    I don’t think there’s any reason to declare the friendship over. This is what Christmas cards and birthday cards are for. To let someone know you care about them and are thinking about them and keep the lines of communication open for someday in the future when your lives make a more active friendship possible. 
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    I get that LW is being a little unrealistic, but I think the friend isn't without fault here too.

    Dealing with infertility has got to be completely horrible. And seeing a close friend have children without trying has to be gut wrenching. But someone who you were close enough to that you confided in about your IFV journey, and you just ghost them for the duration of a pregnancy? And can't even send a note of sympathy when her infant is in NICU? I don't think that should be just brushed off. Maybe she wasn't the right person to be LW's shoulder, but she could have at least sent a card. 

    It really sounds to me like the friend decided that it was just too painful for her to be friends with LW anymore. While that's really sad, it's totally valid. If that's the case, she should have told LW instead of just disappearing. 
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    I don't understand why, if LW is so understanding of her friend's fertility issues, friend even knows that her own pregnancies were unplanned.  

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    Ro041 said:
    I don't understand why, if LW is so understanding of her friend's fertility issues, friend even knows that her own pregnancies were unplanned.  
    That stood out to me in the letter too. If I was infertile “Whoops, got pregnant again! I’m not even trying!” would hurt me more than a friend who wanted kids and was successfully having them.
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    eileenrob said:
    Ro041 said:
    I don't understand why, if LW is so understanding of her friend's fertility issues, friend even knows that her own pregnancies were unplanned.  
    That stood out to me in the letter too. If I was infertile “Whoops, got pregnant again! I’m not even trying!” would hurt me more than a friend who wanted kids and was successfully having them.
    Like, why does friend even know that fact??  

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    Ro041 said:
    eileenrob said:
    Ro041 said:
    I don't understand why, if LW is so understanding of her friend's fertility issues, friend even knows that her own pregnancies were unplanned.  
    That stood out to me in the letter too. If I was infertile “Whoops, got pregnant again! I’m not even trying!” would hurt me more than a friend who wanted kids and was successfully having them.
    Like, why does friend even know that fact??  
    Yup. Friendship doesn’t mean having to share every detail of every thing that happens in every part of your life. If I was LW I definitely wouldn’t have said my pregnancies were unplanned (even if that was true!) because it’s added information, that isn’t needed, that’s potentially more hurtful. Sometimes there are details you should keep to yourself. 
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    CasadenaCasadena member
    First Comment First Anniversary 5 Love Its Name Dropper
    edited December 2018
    I get that LW is being a little unrealistic, but I think the friend isn't without fault here too.

    Dealing with infertility has got to be completely horrible. And seeing a close friend have children without trying has to be gut wrenching. But someone who you were close enough to that you confided in about your IFV journey, and you just ghost them for the duration of a pregnancy? And can't even send a note of sympathy when her infant is in NICU? I don't think that should be just brushed off. Maybe she wasn't the right person to be LW's shoulder, but she could have at least sent a card. 

    It really sounds to me like the friend decided that it was just too painful for her to be friends with LW anymore. While that's really sad, it's totally valid. If that's the case, she should have told LW instead of just disappearing. 

    LW says they've kept in touch via texts and social media - just that they haven't physically seen each other.  She also mentioned friend sent a text while kiddo was in the NICU. 

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    I don't think it makes the other woman a bad friend because she didn't send a card or visit or whatever.  She sent a text and responded on social media which seems to be how they've been communicating for abut a year at least. Not everyone is comfortable (no matter how close they are) inserting themselves - even if it's just a card and don't want to say the wrong thing.  I think the article Varuna posted earlier is spot on. 

    I really dislike this LW.

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    LW also said that she hasn't seen friend since before she was pregnant.  So maybe the pregnancy isn't even the issue?

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    Ro041 said:
    LW also said that she hasn't seen friend since before she was pregnant.  So maybe the pregnancy isn't even the issue?
    I had tried to figure out the timeline and couldn't.  I can't tell how much time between pregnancies there was or even how old the 2 kids were now.
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    Honestly, it can be really hard to know how and when to reach out to someone going through a crisis. Some people want to talk a lot about it, while others either don't have the time or don't want to discuss more than is strictly necessary. Maybe this friend was worried she'd be bothering LW if she kept in touch too much while the baby was in the hospital? 

    Emergency aside, though, it can also be really hard to maintain a friendship with someone who's in a really different place in life from you, especially when that person has something that you cannot and will not ever have. It may just be too painful for this friend to keep in touch with LW too much, because LW has easily had a family while the friend has had to face the heartbreaking reality that she can't have kids. While LW claims to have been sensitive about the friend's feelings, as @Ro041 pointed out, how come friend knows LW had no trouble conceiving? Maybe friend doesn't think LW has been so understanding and has decided to keep her distance from now on because of that.


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    Yeah, it could have come up any number of ways. LW told friend she wasn't planning on trying for children for a few years, LW said something about how full her hands are with the one child so it'll be a bit before we go for #2, anything like that.

    I agree that LW is an insensitive asshole here. I think it's crazy that she's so upset at this friend for not making time for her when she, herself can't be bothered to make time for the friend. 
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    mrsconn23mrsconn23 member
    First Anniversary First Answer 5 Love Its First Comment
    edited December 2018
    Ro041 said:
    eileenrob said:
    Ro041 said:
    I don't understand why, if LW is so understanding of her friend's fertility issues, friend even knows that her own pregnancies were unplanned.  
    That stood out to me in the letter too. If I was infertile “Whoops, got pregnant again! I’m not even trying!” would hurt me more than a friend who wanted kids and was successfully having them.
    Like, why does friend even know that fact??  
    Because sometimes you tell your friends that you never want kids and then end up pregnant. I have 2 friends in my close circle that struggled with infertility and while I never told them my pregnancy was unplanned, they sure as fuck knew it wasn’t on purpose.
    Yep. I have a few friends that if they got pregnant, I would know it was not planned...and I'd be checking on them because I cannot imagine the giant loop that would throw them. 

    I think LW is overselling her 'understanding' of her friend and/or she's playing some weird tit-for-tat game with this friend and thinks that because she was there for her friend's (still ongoing) infertility, that friend should be showing up for LW now...even after a long period of not interacting.   LW's comment about not having time now that she has two young kids makes it seem like she's somehow insinuating that the onus is on her friend to pick up the friendship torch because she doesn't have the 'additional stress' that LW does.  The way LW presents her 'side' makes it hard not to think they're an asshole. 
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    mrsconn23 said:
    Ro041 said:
    eileenrob said:
    Ro041 said:
    I don't understand why, if LW is so understanding of her friend's fertility issues, friend even knows that her own pregnancies were unplanned.  
    That stood out to me in the letter too. If I was infertile “Whoops, got pregnant again! I’m not even trying!” would hurt me more than a friend who wanted kids and was successfully having them.
    Like, why does friend even know that fact??  
    Because sometimes you tell your friends that you never want kids and then end up pregnant. I have 2 friends in my close circle that struggled with infertility and while I never told them my pregnancy was unplanned, they sure as fuck knew it wasn’t on purpose.
    Yep. I have a few friends that if they got pregnant, I would know it was not planned...and I'd be checking on them because I cannot imagine the giant loop that would throw them. 

    I think LW is overselling her 'understanding' of her friend and/or she's playing some weird tit-for-tat game with this friend and thinks that because she was there for her friend's (still ongoing) infertility, that friend should be showing up for LW now...even after a long period of not interacting.   LW's comment about not having time now that she has two young kids makes it seem like she's somehow insinuating that the onus is on her friend to pick up the friendship torch because she doesn't have the 'additional stress' that LW does.  The way LW presents her 'side' makes it hard not to think they're an asshole. 
    Yup this.   She's making it sound like she was there for her friend's infertility struggle that is somehow over.   It doesn't work that way.

    That friend may have an issue every time she sees someone parenting or holding a new baby.   It doesn't mean that the LW doesn't have stress - but she's literally writing her friend's stress off in her note as if it's gone. 
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