Titles on Invites - Do you need them?

Viczaesar

PrettyGirlLost said:

CMGragain said:

emilyellyse said:

Use titles. Especially earned ones. Be sure to honor all doctorates and address those guests as Dr., not just the MDs. This includes DDS, PhD, DO, PsyD, DPT and even veterinary doctors and others that are escaping me. However, JDs are not to be included.

This is not socially correct.  The title "Doctor" is only used socially by physicians, or people who normally use that title in their work, such as college professors.

And every person working in a natural science field who holds a PhD.

NYCBruin said:

NYCBruin said:

Use titles. Especially earned ones. Be sure to honor all doctorates and address those guests as Dr., not just the MDs. This includes DDS, PhD, DO, PsyD, DPT and even veterinary doctors and others that are escaping me. However, JDs are not to be included.

This is not correct. Well except the part about JDs. These are professional titles. They aren't used in social settings. Ditto for lawyers (esq.). ETA that said, if you really want to include the title you can, but it is not rude to not use these titles.

This is a post in general, not taking NYC to task by any means.

The people that hold them will find it rude to be addressed as Mr. or Mrs./Ms.  I have railed against this antiquate etiquette convention on other threads in here.

DO's which are Doctors of Osteopathic medicine and are physicians same as MDs, and PhDs in the natural sciences are referred to by the title "Dr" professionally and socially as a sign of respect.  Addressing them formally as Mr/Mrs/Ms is highly disrespectful.

-------------------- I usually defer to Cranes on this topic and they are firmly in the "medical doctors only" camp. I'm not opposed to including titles for everyone, but I think it's silly that people get offended over this, especially given the mainstream etiquette rules. I mean why draw the line at PhDs? Why not include a title anyone with a higher degree or for that matter a bachelors degree?

Cranes is outdated on this one, imo.  There is no logical reason that physicians are afforded the title Dr socially but PhDs in research and science are not.  It's a very old convention having to do with respect, and I suspect it comes from a time when only the very wealthy could afford to piss around for years on end and acquire a PhD.

Bachelors and Masters degrees aren't terminal degrees and carry no title.  That is not to ppo poo them in any way, but the point is that they don't have a title associated with them so that point is moot.

Why draw the line at PhDs in the natural sciences?  Because they work just as hard as MDs for their professional titles; It takes 5-8 years to acquire your PhD, followed by at least one post doc of about 1-3 years, and usually a second post doc of another 1-3 years.  So after spending 7-14 years getting that title, I don't think it is silly when people get pissed at being referred to as Ms. when it's really Dr.  It really is disrespectful.

I can't speak to the process for non natural science doctorates because that;s not my world.

I can, and it's the same.  It typically takes 7-9 years in my field to get your PhD, not including Masters work, plus post doctoral work. 

Inkdancer

I am back with another question.

I know that every adult social unit should get their own invitation. That means that Mr and Mrs Snoopy get one, their 19-year-old daughter gets one, and Mrs. Snoopy's mother gets one.

However, all of these people live in the same house. Can I send one save-the-date card to all of them?

Jen4948

Inkdancer said:

I am back with another question.

I know that every adult social unit should get their own invitation. That means that Mr and Mrs Snoopy get one, their 19-year-old daughter gets one, and Mrs. Snoopy's mother gets one.

However, all of these people live in the same house. Can I send one save-the-date card to all of them?

You can include everyone on the same save-the-date as long as all the adult social units get their own invitations.

antoto

My wedding is more formal so I included all the titles.  For females I used Ms. instead of Miss or Mrs. with the exception of the older women or women who I knew were more traditional.  Formal but with a twist of my own modern feminist ideals

I also used the format that puts in both male and female names, so rather than mr. and mrs. his first and last name.. I put mr. first name and ms. first name last name.

AroundTheBlock

NYCBruin said:

Use titles. Especially earned ones. Be sure to honor all doctorates and address those guests as Dr., not just the MDs. This includes DDS, PhD, DO, PsyD, DPT and even veterinary doctors and others that are escaping me. However, JDs are not to be included.

This is not correct. Well except the part about JDs. These are professional titles. They aren't used in social settings. Ditto for lawyers (esq.). ETA that said, if you really want to include the title you can, but it is not rude to not use these titles.

Traditional etiquette would hold you to the standard of actually knowing what names and titles your guests prefer for themselves, and following their preferences. If you know someone uses their academic title socially, then it is rude of you to try to "put them in their place" by ignoring their preference.

Cranes and other etiquette authorities should be followed only when you don't know someone's preferences; but that's a minor etiquette fail in and of itself: if these are your dear friends and family you are actually expected to have taken and interest in them, at least to the superficial degree of knowing their names and titles.

The titles that are used socially are not related to whether or not the title is earned or to how many years you have spent earning it. Good for you, but such strivings are recognized in the professional sphere. Traditional etiquette recognizes titles that are in and of themselves indicators of direct public service: MDs, magistrates, military officers, members of government. Public service transcends both the professional domain and the social domain. But modern sensibilities see the public service also performed by military ranks, by medical researchers who work indirectly for the public good (often on research stipends when they could serve their own interests better with an industry post) , and other professionals in different forms of public service even when they are employed in industry. So when someone chooses to use their earned degree, they are presumably declaring that they are contributing something to society worthy of social recognition -- and they probably know best.

However, many people without earned degrees contribute significantly to the public good -- garbage-collectors and street engineers leap immediately to mind. So it would be offensive to give doctors and colonels their social titles, and withhold the equally honourable titles of "Miss", "Mrs", "Ms" and "Mr" from everyone else.

Inkdancer

@AroundTheBlock That was very well said. Thank you very much!

STARMOON44

I've always been taught that using "doctor" if you are not a medical doctor is a Midwestern thing, like eating at 5 and hot dish.

antoto

STARMOON44 said:

I've always been taught that using "doctor" if you are not a medical doctor is a Midwestern thing, like eating at 5 and hot dish.

Is it me, or do some people on this site have really weird ideas about the midwest?  Do they think we are all strange, etiquette deficient gnomes?   

Calling someone with a PhD a doctor is completely fine - most people with a PhD have a preference though (my father hates being called doctor, my grandmother insists on it)

Inkdancer

antoto said:

STARMOON44 said:

I've always been taught that using "doctor" if you are not a medical doctor is a Midwestern thing, like eating at 5 and hot dish.

Is it me, or do some people on this site have really weird ideas about the midwest?  Do they think we are all strange, etiquette deficient gnomes?   

Calling someone with a PhD a doctor is completely fine - most people with a PhD have a preference though (my father hates being called doctor, my grandmother insists on it)

Wait, you're not a gnome who subsists on corn? Next you're gonna tell me you drive a car instead of a tractor or a horse buggy.

(This from the native West Virginian... can't tell you how many cracks I've gotten about double checking that FI is not one of my cousins...)