FI is mad at me again, what else is new? (vent)

blabla89

I am seriously so ready to just cancel our stupid honeymoon.

First FI was upset with me for questioning whether we could successfully rent and drive a stick-shift car on our trip to Italy, since neither of us have driven one. I tried to learn once and it wasn't easy, so I question whether we could do it on the fly. So then he gets the idea to rent a scooter to drive around Tuscany. Neither of us have ever driven a scooter or motorbike. Personally, I'm not super comfortable with the idea of riding a motorcycle, let alone a little scooter, especially with an inexperienced driver, in an unfamiliar location. The more I read about it online the less I like the idea. I asked FI if he had looked into taking scooter driving lessons before we go, and he said he's driven a four-wheeler before and how different could it be? Somehow this got turned into me not trusting his ability and me shooting down all of his suggestions, and more about how he didn't want to go to Tuscany (although he's showed lots of enthusiasm for various things we've looked at) and he's only doing it because I wanted to. At this point I'm ready to call Delta and see if they can change our tickets and go to the Caribbean. I can't take another stupid argument about this trip, it's taking all the joy out of it.

Thanks for letting me vent. Time to put on my big girl panties and get on with the day

thisismynickname2

Ughh, sorry to hear. For what it's worth, if you ask me, this fight is about safety. No way I'd rent a stick shift or a scooter in Italy.  

It's not like you're fighting over actual things to see and do there, right? Like, one wants to hit nothing but museums and the other only wants to sit in bars and drink wine and eat pizza? 

We went to Italy on our honeymoon too and it was fabulous. Don't cave in favor of the Caribbean! I'm sure you'll work it out. 

novella1186

Ugh I'm sorry. That sucks. 

Just to warn you though, everyone I know who's been to Italy (some of which are avid world travelers) have told me to not even THINK about renting a car there. That's the first thing a lot of people say to me when they find out I'm going. Apparently it really sucks trying to drive there (I don't remember specifically why they said it sucks so bad) and I've been told multiple times that their public transportation is great, there's always taxis, and walking is always a great option (as long as you're not going like 20 miles away). I can't speak from experience, but I just wanted to share what I've been told about it. 

Good luck on the plans! 

climbingsingle

We rented a car in Italy. A manual Fiat. I haven't driven a stick shift in years, so I let H do all the driving. And let me tell you - the first few minutes in the car were fucking tense. It took him a little to get used to the car. And he's really familiar with driving a manual transmision, and I have to say, he's an extremely capable driver. 

Also, the drivers in Florence are fucking crazy. And we're used to driving in Manhattan. The people on scooters you have to really watch for. They weave in and out of traffic. There were at least 20 times I thought we were going to hit one, and we were driving really carefully. 

So, just something to think about if you rent a car in Italy. After the first day, we felt much more comfortable and it was easier to get around. We also had a GPS that spoke English. 

novella1186

I also want to suggest, maybe don't talk about the honeymoon for a little while. You booked the tickets, which is the big thing. The details can wait, right? Maybe put the whole topic on the back burner so you can both have a chance to chill out about it. If you're still frustrated from your last disagreement about this (which it seems like you are) then this is just piling on and it's gonna be even more frustrating and contentious. Leave it alone and come back to it when neither of you are so frustrated over it. 

blabla89

novella1186 said:

Ugh I'm sorry. That sucks. 

Just to warn you though, everyone I know who's been to Italy (some of which are avid world travelers) have told me to not even THINK about renting a car there. That's the first thing a lot of people say to me when they find out I'm going. Apparently it really sucks trying to drive there (I don't remember specifically why they said it sucks so bad) and I've been told multiple times that their public transportation is great, there's always taxis, and walking is always a great option (as long as you're not going like 20 miles away). I can't speak from experience, but I just wanted to share what I've been told about it. 

Good luck on the plans! 

That's what FI's parents said, too. But I've heard from a few people who rented a car in Tuscany (we wouldn't try to drive in any of the cities) and they said it worked out great. There are cars with automatic transmission available, they just cost a little more and have to be booked in advance.I think FI is just hurt that I questioned his ability. And I never said no to a stick shift car, just that driving it is more complicated than you'd think and it takes a while to get the hang of.

amelisha

blabla89 said:

That's what FI's parents said, too. But I've heard from a few people who rented a car in Tuscany (we wouldn't try to drive in any of the cities) and they said it worked out great. There are cars with automatic transmission available, they just cost a little more and have to be booked in advance.I think FI is just hurt that I questioned his ability. And I never said no to a stick shift car, just that driving it is more complicated than you'd think and it takes a while to get the hang of.

I've driven in Italy, Spain, and Portugal, and I wouldn't call it an automatic no-go. The cities ARE a bit scary in Italy (I don't know if I would drive into the centre of Florence) but I wouldn't say that it's especially difficult in the countryside. I never had a problem renting an automatic in western Europe, even when I didn't prebook. It was a little more expensive, as you said, but there was always one available. I think the horror stories about manuals-only are kind of dated now. So I'll go against the tide and offer some reassurance that you'll probably be just fine if you want to drive.

But I agree with previous posters that it might be a good idea to leave the travel planning talk alone for a few weeks.

labro

I think you're both really on edge about this whole discussion and may need to take a break from it for a bit and re-approach it later. We booked our honeymoon hotel and airfare about 4-5 months before the wedding and didn't actually get any real plans set in stone until maybe a month before we left. Maybe that's not the best advice...but the only hard date thing we had was a soccer game and everything beyond that was flexible/didn't need to be pre-booked. You know how many days you're there, I think the goal right now should be to figure out a soft plan of what days you'd like to be where. Get that settled first and then figure out a short list of "things to do" in each location. You don't have to do those things, but you can have a generic plan in place. That may help alleviate the stress of "what are we going to do" and "how are we going to do it".

Have you checked out any of the travel forums on Trip Advisor? Maybe you and your FI can go there together and jointly ask some questions about transportation and getting around. He really seems to be taking all of your suggestions and questions as personal attacks on him and that kind of worries me. Have you tried delving deeper into what's going on behind his outbursts and talking about them together? H does that with me...and while I don't always like it, he's usually right in that I'm mad about something else other than the exact subject of our conversation. Talking about the real issue helps us move on.

Personally, I think a car and/or scooter bike rentals won't be necessary while you're there. You should be able to take the train for long distance trips and walk or get a bike for travel in the town.

ETA: Getting a generic plan in place will help you to meet your mutual ideal honeymoon of selecting days you'd like to do the beach bum thing versus days you want to adventure and explore.

PrettyGirlLost

I'm sorry

My DH currently drives a manual and he used to have a motorcycle. . . and there was no way he was going to rent a car or scooter when we went to Ireland.

1st- European roads are no where near as wide as our roads, not even in the rural areas.  It was crazy to see the bicycle, car, and scooter traffic in both directions zipping about in these narrow roads.  Everyone was on top of each other.  Nope, nope, nope.

2nd- If you neither of you have ever driven a manual, on the fly is not a good time to learn, especially if you are in a crowded city.  You can stall out and cause an accident.

PrettyGirlLost

novella1186 said:

Ugh I'm sorry. That sucks. 

Just to warn you though, everyone I know who's been to Italy (some of which are avid world travelers) have told me to not even THINK about renting a car there. That's the first thing a lot of people say to me when they find out I'm going. Apparently it really sucks trying to drive there (I don't remember specifically why they said it sucks so bad) and I've been told multiple times that their public transportation is great, there's always taxis, and walking is always a great option (as long as you're not going like 20 miles away). I can't speak from experience, but I just wanted to share what I've been told about it. 

Good luck on the plans! 

Probably because Italians drive like maniacs?  Mario Andretti came by it honestly. . . .

mrsk616

PrettyGirlLost said:

I'm sorry

My DH currently drives a manual and he used to have a motorcycle. . . and there was no way he was going to rent a car or scooter when we went to Ireland.

1st- European roads are no where near as wide as our roads, not even in the rural areas.  It was crazy to see the bicycle, car, and scooter traffic in both directions zipping about in these narrow roads.  Everyone was on top of each other.  Nope, nope, nope.

2nd- If you neither of you have ever driven a manual, on the fly is not a good time to learn, especially if you are in a crowded city.  You can stall out and cause an accident.

i second the 2nd part. dont learn on the fly in a town you dont know. i had to drive a car up from kentucky for my FI and it was stick and i never knew stick. i regretted that one. to this day i refuse to drive stick because of this incident. 

teddygirl9

If you'd rather rent an automatic, you can come around it by saying that YOU'D feel more comfortable driving it. Not that you question his abilities, but that if you needed to drive somewhere (too much vino for him?) that you would feel more comfortable/capable in an automatic.

 

I know myself personally, I cannot drive manual. I have tried to learn probably 6 times, in different cars, and I just can't grasp it. I think learning automatic from the start makes it more difficult lol. But SO, he drives manual all the time. His current car is a manual. But if we went somewhere, he'd want to get an automatic so that we would both be able to drive, even if he was planning on doing all the driving. Just to be safe.

Maggie0829

I have never been to Italy but why would you even consider a manual if neither of you know how to drive one?  The last thing you want to do is learn to drive a manual on a crowded ass city street.

southernbelle0915

Um, a 4-wheeler and a scooter are not even remotely similar to drive. That's like saying if you can snowshoe, snowboarding should be a cinch! Yea, no. 

Is there anywhere in your area where you can rent scooters by the hour? If so, go on a date and rent one. See if you feel safe and comfortable. Then imagine super uneven, cobblestone roads, lots of one-ways, signs you can't read (unless you speak Italian), and people/cars walking all over the streets. If you think you can swing it, do it! If not, plan on walking and taking cabs/trains/public transit. You'll be able to take more in that way anyway.

sarahufl

IMO, honeymoon planning shouldn't be causing so much strife.

Maybe take a day off from it.

And, no, don't learn to drive a manual in Italy.

lovemesomemonster

I am completely in agreement with everyone on this board! You CAN rent automatics in Europe, I just did, and trust me you are NOT going to want to learn on the fly in another country. Roads are different, street rules are different, and add in the fact that you don't know where you're going.. bad idea. My first two cars were manual but going to places I don't know I would rather have all my attention on where I'm going and not hitting people than messing with a manual. Sounds like you are planning a fantastic vacation and I hope you can ditch the added stress of this driving situation! Also remember in Europe you can WALK a lot more to places than a lot of US states so really look into if you even NEED a car! 

jenna8984

Definitely with @prettygirllost on this one! Manuals take a lot of practice and finesse. The LAST thing you need is a bill for $10,000 because you blew the clutch and dropped the tranny, or cause an accident and hurt yourself or others. I think he's being unreasonable if he doesn't take those risks into consideration.

hellosweetie1015

I would probably consider a scooter rental for myself - having DRIVEN a scooter for 2 years and change as my main car - for the countryside part, but that's because I drove one for two years and know A. what to do in most situations to avoid causing an accident, and B. how to be as safe as possible if God forbid I do drop it. However, there's no way in HELL I'd consider it in a big city, especially one I'd never been to, DOUBLY especially one in another country. Also: I don't know how to drive a stick shift. If that were my only option in a strange city in a foreign country, there is no way in heaven, hell, or anywhere in between that I'd rent one. You could seriously kill someone or yourselves that way.

Also - look at the licensure requirements. Your US driver's license isn't actually a valid driver's license in another country. Maybe Canada, but certainly not a place to which you cannot drive. If there's not a road from the US to it, you're probably gonna need a license to drive in that country to even rent a vehicle in the first place. 

Regarding the fighting - I'd drop the honeymoon talk for a bit. You've got your flights booked, and your hotels(?). And - Delta is really, really fantastic about rearranging. My sister had a trip scheduled from ATL to, like, Minnesota or somewhere for Thanksgiving to see her then-boyfriend/fiancé/scumbagperson, and like the day before, found out that he was cheating on her and had been for MONTHS. She called Delta, and they said to just rebook it for wherever she wants to go within the next year (within the US, I think contiguous). And hotel reservations: EASY PEASY to change, especially if their policy is that you pay upon arrival or at checkout, which most of the places I've stayed has been. 

Drop it for a couple of months, let yourselves cool off, and see if you can get to the issue that's really upsetting him. Does he feel like he's getting no say, or you're shutting his thoughts down constantly? Does he just not want to talk about it any more? Is he maybe a little freaked out about the whole thing entirely and just trying to find little things instead of voicing his big worry? Is it something completely unrelated to you that he just hasn't figured out how to handle otherwise?

morphemes

I used to live in Italy and if you are going to be out in the country, you probably need a car. Driving in the country is VERY different from driving in Rome or Florence or any of the bigger cities and honestly you'd probably be fine. However, be vary wary of rentals ensuring you an automatic vehicle. Rental agencies always list them because Americans (generally) cannot drive stick. But regardless of whether or not you reserve an automatic, it is very likely you won't get one. I say this from personal experience (multiple) times. I actually learned to drive on a stick and have always driven one, but every time a friend would come visit when I lived there, they would rent an automatic. and EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. they would arrive, and be given a manual transmission. Italy is infamous for things like this. However, if you're not going anywhere near cities, and you have any experience driving a stick- you'd probably do just fine. Also note that Tuscany is very hilly which can be difficult for inexperienced manual drivers. 

beethery

Gas is fucking WILDLY expensive over there, as well. Another factor before considering renting a vehicle. I was there in 2007 and the ONE gas station I passed was 5EU/L. That's a fucking shit ton.

I would not be riding on the back of a scooter among other crazy motorists when the scooter was being operated by someone who had ridden a 4-wheeler before. That's like fucking apples and... not even another fruit, apples and frying pans. They are TOTALLY different.

climbingsingle

Another word of advice - if you do rent a car, get a GPS without a doubt. We drove all over it and it was a huge help. 

Also, if you're driving on the highway, and the GPS starts dinging, slow down! Eurocar just emailed us to tell us that H got two speeding tickets. Whoops. 

And make sure you have a designated parking spot wherever you're staying. The apartment we rented thankfully came with parking, and it was free. 

ohannabelle

Maggie0829 said:

I have never been to Italy but why would you even consider a manual if neither of you know how to drive one?  The last thing you want to do is learn to drive a manual on a crowded ass city street.

The only up side to this is that you might learn some new and colorful Italian phrases and gestures, not typically seen in phrase books. That "thumbs up" from another driver probably doesn't mean the driving lesson is coming along splendidly. 

PrettyGirlLost

ohannabelle said:

Maggie0829 said:

I have never been to Italy but why would you even consider a manual if neither of you know how to drive one?  The last thing you want to do is learn to drive a manual on a crowded ass city street.

The only up side to this is that you might learn some new and colorful Italian phrases and gestures, not typically seen in phrase books. That "thumbs up" from another driver probably doesn't mean the driving lesson is coming along splendidly. 

I got a book a few years ago from the bargain section of Barnes and Nobles that teaches you Italian- even has a doohickey that speaks the phrases to you. . . only it's teaching you to curse and insult in Italian, hahahaha!

blabla89

@ClimbingBrideNY one of the other PPs mentioned a driver's license...how did that work out for your trip and renting a car?

ETA - I realized I hadn't even thought about that yet...

climbingsingle

blabla89 said:

@ClimbingBrideNY one of the other PPs mentioned a driver's license...how did that work out for your trip and renting a car?

ETA - I realized I hadn't even thought about that yet...

We didn't need a special driver's license to rent or drive there. 

amelisha

hellosweetie1015 said:

Also - look at the licensure requirements. Your US driver's license isn't actually a valid driver's license in another country. Maybe Canada, but certainly not a place to which you cannot drive. If there's not a road from the US to it, you're probably gonna need a license to drive in that country to even rent a vehicle in the first place. 

I've legally rented vehicles in several European countries as well as two African ones with my North American licence and I can assure you that this isn't necessarily true. You have to read the rental requirements carefully, but my (I admit, Canadian) license has never been an issue - I didn't even need the translated "international" license, actually (although I know that changes with longer stays.) 

The official recommendation from the Canadian government on driving in Italy:

An International Driving Permit is strongly recommended, and an international car insurance plan is mandatory.  An adhesive sticker indicating country of origin must be displayed on the back of foreign cars.

Turning right at red lights is not allowed.

The use of cellular telephones while driving is prohibited, unless they are fitted with a hands-free device.

The use of headlights on highways and major roads during the day is mandatory.

Fines for minor traffic violations must be paid immediately in cash.

A special permit–issued only to residents and members of public organizations–is necessary to have access to Rome city centre by car. Similar restrictions are in place in most city centres. Take note of street signage and abide by the Zona a Traffico Limitato (limited traffic zone restriction), often abbreviated as "ZTL". In the summer, only residents are allowed to take their cars to the islands of Capri, Ischia and Procida. Travellers have received traffic tickets by mail several months after their return to Canada. The municipalities use the services of a private company in order to collect the fees abroad.

So legally, you need insurance, and if you get stopped your life will be easier with an IDP, but you can rent without one.

I'm sorry to be arguing on the wrong side of this from popular opinion, but I seriously think most people get way too worried about this kind of thing. I've never, ever had a problem when driving abroad and I love the freedom of it, especially in the countryside.

ETA: The IDP is easy to get, though, just an application and a fee if memory serves.

hellosweetie1015

amelisha said:

hellosweetie1015 said:

Also - look at the licensure requirements. Your US driver's license isn't actually a valid driver's license in another country. Maybe Canada, but certainly not a place to which you cannot drive. If there's not a road from the US to it, you're probably gonna need a license to drive in that country to even rent a vehicle in the first place. 

I've legally rented vehicles in several European countries as well as two African ones with my North American licence and I can assure you that this isn't necessarily true. You have to read the rental requirements carefully, but my (I admit, Canadian) license has never been an issue - I didn't even need the translated "international" license, actually (although I know that changes with longer stays.) 

The official recommendation from the Canadian government on driving in Italy:

An International Driving Permit is strongly recommended, and an international car insurance plan is mandatory.  An adhesive sticker indicating country of origin must be displayed on the back of foreign cars.

Turning right at red lights is not allowed.

The use of cellular telephones while driving is prohibited, unless they are fitted with a hands-free device.

The use of headlights on highways and major roads during the day is mandatory.

Fines for minor traffic violations must be paid immediately in cash.

A special permit–issued only to residents and members of public organizations–is necessary to have access to Rome city centre by car. Similar restrictions are in place in most city centres. Take note of street signage and abide by the Zona a Traffico Limitato (limited traffic zone restriction), often abbreviated as "ZTL". In the summer, only residents are allowed to take their cars to the islands of Capri, Ischia and Procida. Travellers have received traffic tickets by mail several months after their return to Canada. The municipalities use the services of a private company in order to collect the fees abroad.

So legally, you need insurance, and if you get stopped your life will be easier with an IDP, but you can rent without one.

I'm sorry to be arguing on the wrong side of this from popular opinion, but I seriously think most people get way too worried about this kind of thing. I've never, ever had a problem when driving abroad and I love the freedom of it, especially in the countryside.

ETA: The IDP is easy to get, though, just an application and a fee if memory serves.

Eh, my info really comes from a glance at the driving requirements section on one of the US Abroad Travelers websites just in case we wound up HAVING to drive while we were gone. I haven't ever actually driven abroad. It's just something definitely worth looking at, because I do remember it being emphasized on the website I saw. 

beethery

PrettyGirlLost said:

ohannabelle said:

Maggie0829 said:

I have never been to Italy but why would you even consider a manual if neither of you know how to drive one?  The last thing you want to do is learn to drive a manual on a crowded ass city street.

The only up side to this is that you might learn some new and colorful Italian phrases and gestures, not typically seen in phrase books. That "thumbs up" from another driver probably doesn't mean the driving lesson is coming along splendidly. 

I got a book a few years ago from the bargain section of Barnes and Nobles that teaches you Italian- even has a doohickey that speaks the phrases to you. . . only it's teaching you to curse and insult in Italian, hahahaha!

When some creep asses grouped up around me touching my arms and shit, all I had to do was yell VAFFANCULO and they all got this D8 look on their faces and backed off some kind of quick.

KatieinBkln

blabla89 said:

novella1186 said:

Ugh I'm sorry. That sucks. 

Just to warn you though, everyone I know who's been to Italy (some of which are avid world travelers) have told me to not even THINK about renting a car there. That's the first thing a lot of people say to me when they find out I'm going. Apparently it really sucks trying to drive there (I don't remember specifically why they said it sucks so bad) and I've been told multiple times that their public transportation is great, there's always taxis, and walking is always a great option (as long as you're not going like 20 miles away). I can't speak from experience, but I just wanted to share what I've been told about it. 

Good luck on the plans! 

That's what FI's parents said, too. But I've heard from a few people who rented a car in Tuscany (we wouldn't try to drive in any of the cities) and they said it worked out great. There are cars with automatic transmission available, they just cost a little more and have to be booked in advance.I think FI is just hurt that I questioned his ability. And I never said no to a stick shift car, just that driving it is more complicated than you'd think and it takes a while to get the hang of.

But...you said he's never even driven a stick-shift. So there is...no ability there to question. I.e., it's not a question at all, it's a fact. Kind of weird that he would expect you to trust his skills implicitly, even when there is no evidence to suggest that he even has any particular skills in a particular category at all.

I get it--people like to know they're trusted. But no one is trustworthy at all tasks! And I think he's perhaps conflating trusting of the heart with this particular thing. I mean, you can trust him with your life, but that doesn't mean you're going to put your life in danger by, say, following him into a volcano (even though he's totally like, built fires before, so it's fine!).

PrettyGirlLost

beethery said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

ohannabelle said:

Maggie0829 said:

I have never been to Italy but why would you even consider a manual if neither of you know how to drive one?  The last thing you want to do is learn to drive a manual on a crowded ass city street.

The only up side to this is that you might learn some new and colorful Italian phrases and gestures, not typically seen in phrase books. That "thumbs up" from another driver probably doesn't mean the driving lesson is coming along splendidly. 

I got a book a few years ago from the bargain section of Barnes and Nobles that teaches you Italian- even has a doohickey that speaks the phrases to you. . . only it's teaching you to curse and insult in Italian, hahahaha!

When some creep asses grouped up around me touching my arms and shit, all I had to do was yell VAFFANCULO and they all got this D8 look on their faces and backed off some kind of quick.

Hahahaha, perfect!

flutteringinfl

amelisha said:

hellosweetie1015 said:

Also - look at the licensure requirements. Your US driver's license isn't actually a valid driver's license in another country. Maybe Canada, but certainly not a place to which you cannot drive. If there's not a road from the US to it, you're probably gonna need a license to drive in that country to even rent a vehicle in the first place. 

I've legally rented vehicles in several European countries as well as two African ones with my North American licence and I can assure you that this isn't necessarily true. You have to read the rental requirements carefully, but my (I admit, Canadian) license has never been an issue - I didn't even need the translated "international" license, actually (although I know that changes with longer stays.) 

The official recommendation from the Canadian government on driving in Italy:

An International Driving Permit is strongly recommended, and an international car insurance plan is mandatory.  An adhesive sticker indicating country of origin must be displayed on the back of foreign cars.

Turning right at red lights is not allowed.

The use of cellular telephones while driving is prohibited, unless they are fitted with a hands-free device.

The use of headlights on highways and major roads during the day is mandatory.

Fines for minor traffic violations must be paid immediately in cash.

A special permit–issued only to residents and members of public organizations–is necessary to have access to Rome city centre by car. Similar restrictions are in place in most city centres. Take note of street signage and abide by the Zona a Traffico Limitato (limited traffic zone restriction), often abbreviated as "ZTL". In the summer, only residents are allowed to take their cars to the islands of Capri, Ischia and Procida. Travellers have received traffic tickets by mail several months after their return to Canada. The municipalities use the services of a private company in order to collect the fees abroad.

So legally, you need insurance, and if you get stopped your life will be easier with an IDP, but you can rent without one.

I'm sorry to be arguing on the wrong side of this from popular opinion, but I seriously think most people get way too worried about this kind of thing. I've never, ever had a problem when driving abroad and I love the freedom of it, especially in the countryside.

ETA: The IDP is easy to get, though, just an application and a fee if memory serves.

We rented a car in Grand Cayman and it was super easy. Just walked right off the cruise ship to the rental place, showed our licenses, paid the fee, and went on our way. I'm pretty sure the fee included the cost of the IDP, or at least some sort of document that was required or strongly encouraged for driving in a foreign country. We didn't apply for anything before we left the country in order to be able to rent a car.