Don't go. Don't compromise. Just don't.

mrsconn23

Dear Prudence,
I grew up in a very supportive and loving family, but that all changed when I came out at 17. My father disowned me and my mother became depressed and withdrawn; I was devastated and had minimal contact with them for years. After therapy, medication, and putting myself through medical school, I’m feeling pretty good. I have a wonderful partner of five years, and my family and I are slowly reconnecting. My father even apologized to me, which is something I never thought would happen. The problem is my sister. My partner and I usually stay with her when we visit, but she just told us that we’d have to start sleeping in separate rooms when we come to see the family from now on. Now that she and her husband have had a son, they’ve decided as a family that God disapproves of same-sex relationships, and that while they love us and want us to come, they’re not going to let us share a room anymore (we used to do so). Staying with other family members is not an option.

My partner suggested we just get a hotel, but I’m not sure I want to go at all. I’m devastated, and I don’t feel like I can go through another rejection (even a friendly one) from my family. It feels like I had this gaping wound that was almost healed and has now been ripped open again. I don’t want to hurt my sister’s feelings, but I’m also contemplating cutting off contact. I know from experience that logic will not help here. What should I do?

—Can’t Do This Again

MissKittyDanger

I would suggest the hotel room also. That way if things get bad/uncomfortable/etc there is a safe space. Then play rest by how that goes.

I totally feel LW for not wanting to go

bleve0821

"I don't want to hurt my sister's feelings"?  AYFKM?  She obviously doesn't care about your feelings (or your partner's, for that matter).  I understand the desire to reconnect, but it sounds like the family dynamic is still tenuous, at best, and if it's important to LW to maintain a relationship with family, I think LW should skip the trip, at least this time, so that the immediate raw emotional aftermath of this pronouncement has had a chance to at least settle (for lack of better word).  

And I agree that, moving forward, LW should not compromise on the matter.

DrillSergeantCat

Hotel sounds like a good option. I also would abstain from visits with sister and if she gets upset about it, tell her as sarcastically as possible that you "didn't want to want to negatively influence her son by going against god's will."

Please note that I think that is utter bullshit and would heavily convey that in my tone. 

VarunaTT

This is all I can think right now:

charlotte989875

Clearly the sister isn't actually supportive, and if the relationship with the rest of the family is tenuous, I'd skip the trip. Develop a game plan for future family outings in the event you want them. But the sudden change of plans and realization the family isn't actually all that accepting would be making me say "sorry can't make it this time". 

OliveOilsMom

VarunaTT said:

This is all I can think right now:

I just love this gif, for a multitude of reasons!  It's also pretty spot on!

I do think LW should at least skip this trip.  If s/he decides in the future to go visit family, I think the hotel will be the best option.

It also breaks my heart that LW is concerned for hurting sister's feelings when sister obviously gave no fucks in hurting LW's feelings by pulling the separate room bullshit.

DrillSergeantCat

OliveOilsMom said:

VarunaTT said:

This is all I can think right now:

I just love this gif, for a multitude of reasons!  It's also pretty spot on!

I do think LW should at least skip this trip.  If s/he decides in the future to go visit family, I think the hotel will be the best option.

It also breaks my heart that LW is concerned for hurting sister's feelings when sister obviously gave no fucks in hurting LW's feelings by pulling the separate room bullshit.

LW sounds like an extremely decent human being. His family keeps hurting him and he keeps giving them chances. It's too bad that his sister can't focus on THAT instead of who he loves.

eta words

sparklepants41

This is so bullshit. The LW should just cut the sister out of his/her life.

short+sassy

Bear with me for a sec, I'm going to play Devil's Advocate for God (that's a weird phrase to write out).

Let's say the sister is right and God does not approve of same-sex relationships (I don't think that, but I'm playing DA).  Even if that were totally true, the God I learned and read about in Church places much MORE emphasis on loving and supporting each other.  Especially when its family.

I also can't help but wonder, if the LW was heterosexual but still not married to their SO, if the "sin" of sleeping in the same room...with (gasp!) the nephew in the house...would have been allowed.  If so, the sister really should have phrased it THAT way.

But, the damage is done.  I'm sad for the LW.  I agree with most of the PPs.  Cancel this particular trip since the hurt is raw, but don't let it damage the tenuous relationship they've worked so hard to establish with his/her family.  Not for the family's sake, but for the LW's sake. 

MissKittyDanger

short+sassy said:

Bear with me for a sec, I'm going to play Devil's Advocate for God (that's a weird phrase to write out).

Let's say the sister is right and God does not approve of same-sex relationships (I don't think that, but I'm playing DA).  Even if that were totally true, the God I learned and read about in Church places much MORE emphasis on loving and supporting each other.  Especially when its family.

I also can't help but wonder, if the LW was heterosexual but still not married to their SO, if the "sin" of sleeping in the same room...with (gasp!) the nephew in the house...would have been allowed.  If so, the sister really should have phrased it THAT way.

But, the damage is done.  I'm sad for the LW.  I agree with most of the PPs.  Cancel this particular trip since the hurt is raw, but don't let it damage the tenuous relationship they've worked so hard to establish with his/her family.  Not for the family's sake, but for the LW's sake. 

I'm wondering same

kimmiinthemitten

Don't go.  If they care as much as LW about repairing the relationship they can come to him.

levioosa

Fuck that sister and her "tolerance." I'm sure sister is patting herself on the back for being so "understanding" and for making sure her precious Johnny doesn't see a gay couple together.  

MesmrEwe

LW needs to spring for the whirlpool suite...  

kerbohl

levioosa said:

Fuck that sister and her "tolerance." I'm sure sister is patting herself on the back for being so "understanding" and for making sure her precious Johnny doesn't see a gay couple together.  

I'm wondering about that - does she not want to talk to her son about these issues yet because she thinks he is too young?  I get where people are coming from about that, but a) your child will be exposed to it sooner than you think, b) it's a great learning experience for the child to hear from someone who is actually LGBT about these issues, and c) while it's a complex issue to bring up to small children, there are ways to talk about it at any age.  Sister should ponder how to do it, talk to her son, and let her sibling back into her house.

Of course, since this child is still an infant, the sister is just overreacting at this point ...

charlotte989875

kerbohl said:

levioosa said:

Fuck that sister and her "tolerance." I'm sure sister is patting herself on the back for being so "understanding" and for making sure her precious Johnny doesn't see a gay couple together.  

I'm wondering about that - does she not want to talk to her son about these issues yet because she thinks he is too young?  I get where people are coming from about that, but a) your child will be exposed to it sooner than you think, b) it's a great learning experience for the child to hear from someone who is actually LGBT about these issues, and c) while it's a complex issue to bring up to small children, there are ways to talk about it at any age.  Sister should ponder how to do it, talk to her son, and let her sibling back into her house.

Of course, since this child is still an infant, the sister is just overreacting at this point ...

Maybe I'm feeling a little snarky today because that speech...

But exposed to what exactly? A couple in a dedicated, committed relationship? Because the LW's relationship is just as normal as if the LW were with a woman. I don't see how a same-sex couple is a complex issue to bring up. They're two people who love each other. The sooner everyone starts treating people that way the fewer people who have to go through what the LW did. 

SP29

charlotte989875 said:

kerbohl said:

levioosa said:

Fuck that sister and her "tolerance." I'm sure sister is patting herself on the back for being so "understanding" and for making sure her precious Johnny doesn't see a gay couple together.  

I'm wondering about that - does she not want to talk to her son about these issues yet because she thinks he is too young?  I get where people are coming from about that, but a) your child will be exposed to it sooner than you think, b) it's a great learning experience for the child to hear from someone who is actually LGBT about these issues, and c) while it's a complex issue to bring up to small children, there are ways to talk about it at any age.  Sister should ponder how to do it, talk to her son, and let her sibling back into her house.

Of course, since this child is still an infant, the sister is just overreacting at this point ...

Maybe I'm feeling a little snarky today because that speech...

But exposed to what exactly? A couple in a dedicated, committed relationship? Because the LW's relationship is just as normal as if the LW were with a woman. I don't see how a same-sex couple is a complex issue to bring up. They're two people who love each other. The sooner everyone starts treating people that way the fewer people who have to go through what the LW did. 

Agreed.

My uncle is gay and started dating his current partner of 18 years when I was 11. My 2 brothers would have been 6 and newborn. There was no "exposure" or complex issue to talk about, it just WAS. It wasn't flaunted but it wasn't hidden either. My brothers and I grew up learning about same sex relationships just like we did heterosexual relationships. And as I got older and started talking about it more socially with friends and such, it wasn't something I had to learn to accept or get used to, my response was more "and????".

levioosa

Funny, because you never hear of parents getting up in arms when they have to explain a straight couple to their child.  It's just using the child as a crutch to camouflage their own bigotry.  

kerbohl

charlotte989875 said:

kerbohl said:

levioosa said:

Fuck that sister and her "tolerance." I'm sure sister is patting herself on the back for being so "understanding" and for making sure her precious Johnny doesn't see a gay couple together.  

I'm wondering about that - does she not want to talk to her son about these issues yet because she thinks he is too young?  I get where people are coming from about that, but a) your child will be exposed to it sooner than you think, b) it's a great learning experience for the child to hear from someone who is actually LGBT about these issues, and c) while it's a complex issue to bring up to small children, there are ways to talk about it at any age.  Sister should ponder how to do it, talk to her son, and let her sibling back into her house.

Of course, since this child is still an infant, the sister is just overreacting at this point ...

Maybe I'm feeling a little snarky today because that speech...

But exposed to what exactly? A couple in a dedicated, committed relationship? Because the LW's relationship is just as normal as if the LW were with a woman. I don't see how a same-sex couple is a complex issue to bring up. They're two people who love each other. The sooner everyone starts treating people that way the fewer people who have to go through what the LW did. 

Exposed to the fact that families can be different, and the norm isn't the rule.  There are communities in which these differences in families aren't so obvious, something I suspect is the case for this sister's community.  Some people might not know how to talk to their kids about the many different ways that a family can look, so they might just want to avoid it.  Maybe its not a complex issue to you, but explaining divorce/adoption/single parenthood/(and in this case)homosexuality to a young child can seem like a daunting task.  It's especially complex if the child has had no exposure to it. I remember my mom trying to explain how someone can have a baby and not be married, and I definitely did not get it at the time (I think I was five) - it just wasn't something I'd ever encountered until then, and I think my mom just gave up until I was older.  So some people might want to put it off until a child is older and might understand things better.  However, my point was that having a child at least aware of some of these different make-ups of family is a positive, as it makes it easier to explain when said child begins to be curious about it.  Regarding my example, I at least had some context for it when I was young so I could eventually figure out that getting married didn't not immediately get you pregnant just with that act.  

GBCK

I get it's hard to explain things to kids 'to young'--but explaining 'to young' is generally the best way to do it.
My kid is 6, and a month or so ago I got to explain accidental pregnancy (and abortion), because she saw something.

It was tres awkward, but, honestly I think a child is much better served by being given information. like a 6 year old "sometimes people have sex because it feels good, not because they want to have a baby.  SOmetimes when they do that, the woman gets pregnant, and then they have hard choices to make"  than to wait until shes 16 and say "well, you know what we said that sex is when a man and woman love each other very much?  we need to amend that to include drunk, wanting to be FWB, etc"

If people could pull the sticks out of their asses and talk, the whole "sometimes it's 2 men or 2 women instead of 1 man 1 woman' is pretty straightforward at age 6--I would know because I repeated that discussion after our march this weekend.
(And repeittion of small discussions is so much better at getting through than trying to ignore it all until it reaches critical mass and you have 'the talk' once)

VarunaTT

The friends I have that I love their parenting style the most, always tell me when I compliment them, "I'm raising my kid to be an adult, not stay a child".  If you're a parent, you signed up for these types of conversations, so I don't really have a whole lot of sympathy for the discomfort factor.  Own the discomfort and do it anyway.

Now, TBH, I'd rather these particular parents not be put into a position of explaining any sort of LGBTQ+ sexual orientation/gender identifications b/c they're going to do it in a bigoted, irresponsible, and uninformed manner.  

short+sassy

Not to mention, usually what are "complex" issues to SOME adults, are NBD to kids.

My sister had the (age appropriate) LGBTQ conversation with my niece when she was 4.  It went like this:

Niece:  "Mommy, my friend N has two mommies.  How come she doesn't have a daddy like I do?"

Sister:  "Sometimes families are different.  You have a mommy and a daddy who love you.  N has two mommies who love her."

Niece:  "Okay."  (And immediately goes back to looking at her picture book) 

VarunaTT

The aforementioned parents asked me to sit in on the conversations with my godsons re: my divorce and then my subsequent dating of a woman just so the kids knew they could ask me questions and be taught how to do it appropriately.  The convos were fairly simple each time.  The kids were more upset about the divorce, but I told them they could still see ex-DH if they ever wanted to and that I didn't hate him.  That seemed to calm a lot of fears.  

And when they met K, they were far more concerned with asking questions about roller derby, rather than giving 2 craps about why i was suddenly dating a woman.  This was at 9 and 6.

DrillSergeantCat

VarunaTT said:

The aforementioned parents asked me to sit in on the conversations with my godsons re: my divorce and then my subsequent dating of a woman just so the kids knew they could ask me questions and be taught how to do it appropriately.  The convos were fairly simple each time.  The kids were more upset about the divorce, but I told them they could still see ex-DH if they ever wanted to and that I didn't hate him.  That seemed to calm a lot of fears.  

And when they met K, they were far more concerned with asking questions about roller derby, rather than giving 2 craps about why i was suddenly dating a woman.  This was at 9 and 6.

Exactly! Kids don't care unless their parents tell them to. 

kimmiinthemitten

Parents who are uncomfortable create uncomfortable conversations.

Kids have questions about all sorts of things that aren't the norm in their family.  Like why doesn't Johnny have a Christmas tree?  June is a different color than I am.  Tommy and his mom don't have a house, they live in a building.

For me, my parents were Deaf so I just assumed everyone knew sign language until I went to school.  I even confronted my kindergarten teacher for teaching class wrong.  My dad said most people hearing parents who don't know ASL.  I said okay.

mrsconn23

kimmiinthemitten said:

Parents who are uncomfortable create uncomfortable conversations.

So true.  However, I will say that I can be caught off guard by a myriad of things my kids ask and sometimes fumble.  Parenting: full of unexpected minefields.

But that's not the case here.  The parents are clearly aware of the situation and have decided they don't want to deal with it (or explore their own bias), so they reject this person's relationship 'for the children'.  Fuck. That.