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Wedding Woes

This brings me a feeling of deja vu.

Dear Prudence,

In January my husband went to a bachelor party in New Orleans with a group of guys, only some of whom he knew well. I wasn’t worried, because I trusted the guys I knew. When my husband came back, he said they all went to a strip club and that some of the guys (who all had wives or serious girlfriends) were unfaithful, although he claimed not to have “done anything.” About three weeks later, I found out he got a private dance and touched a woman. I was so hurt. I was a wreck for months, not just because of what happened, but because he lied to me—I found out from one of the other guy’s girlfriends. I had a hard time sleeping and concentrating at work and am only now starting to feel more like myself. The problem is that one of the other guys in the group just got engaged and they’re all planning to go to New Orleans again. When he told us over the weekend, my husband enthusiastically replied that he would go! I wanted to punch him in the face.

We were in front of a group of people and I gave him a very stern “no” look, but he just kept pleading with me. It felt like a punch to the stomach. I kept wondering how any man who claimed to love me would be willing to put me through that kind of pain over again. We haven’t talked about it since. I don’t even know what to say. How do I convince him he shouldn’t want to hurt me again? Is it worth convincing him, or is my marriage over?

—Bachelor Party Woes

Re: This brings me a feeling of deja vu.

  • Why did you marry him in the first place? If you can’t say “Hank, I’m very upset you’re considering doing this again, knowing how badly it went last time. I thought we agreed no more. It’s unfair to put me in a position of saying no to you over something you know doesn’t work for me” then you don’t have a marriage worth saving. 
  • So much deja vu.

    What is the definition of unfaithful here?   Was a line drawn before the event?  Was there a mutual agreement or a directive of what SHE told him would not work?  

    The H needs to respect her boundaries but no relationship will work if one partner says something as an ultimatum or an order.    That's where there's a breakdown in communication.

    Touching a stripper and getting a lap dance is 99% of the time, a business transaction.   So the LW needs to be clear about what is and isn't being faithful.

    There will be no success for this marriage if they can't use their words and be honest with each other.  
    MissKittyDangercharlotte989875short+sassy
  • Was there boundaries set ahead of time? Like "no strip clubs" etc?
    I know I set boundaries with M had his bachelor party, despite he said he wasn't interested. I stated - out loud - that he could go to a strip club, but please no back room and to use common sense and honesty. Like if he got a lap dance, I may not be 100% ok with it, but if he was honest about it, I'd feel better?

    LW might need to address the lying and boundaries also. I know they don't want their spouse to go back, but at the same time idk if she can tell him not to go.
    charlotte989875
  • The lying is wrong. But what if he had told you? Would you feel differently. 

    Each couple gets to define boundaries for what is and is and is not okay in a relationship. You need to do this as a conversation together and not as you laying down what is and is not okay, you have to come to an agreement that works for both. Or else it won’t end up working for either. 
    MissKittyDangerMyNameIsNot
  • kerbohlkerbohl member
    Seventh Anniversary 500 Love Its 1000 Comments First Answer
    I'm just going to point this out - this guy said specifically that some of the other guys were unfaithful but he didn't do anything, and then she found out through someone else.  So he threw his friends under the bus in order to make himself look better despite the fact that he was also engaging in the same behaviour?  Scratch that he is a lying husband, he's a crappy friend!  What happens if she talks to their partners?
    imageimage
    STARMOON44MissKittyDangercharlotte989875
  • ei34ei34 member
    Seventh Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    Took the words out of my mouth @levioosa !  As I was reading it I thought "jeez she had to turn to Prudie, our answers weren't good enough?" lol. 

    Couples together have to decide what constitutes as cheating/crossing the line/makes their partner uncomfortable.  It'll be different for each couple.  Honestly, LW's last two sentences really answer her question, IMO.
    CharmedPamshort+sassyILoveBeachMusicMesmrEwe
  • levioosalevioosa Southern California member
    5000 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    So I have a question for you guys that’s related. We had a situation come up on our trip this weekend (that thankfully FI and I were not directly in the middle of). So we went with two other couples on our trip. We’re acquaintances with the third couple and we’ve done trips with them before. Couple 3 is good friends with Couple 2. Well, the husband of couple 3 told husband of couple 2 that he is planning to cheat this coming weekend on a “guy’s trip” and is so excited to do it he even has his stuff packed up and ready to go. Couple 3 wife knows something is wrong but is in denial. Im like 98% sure the husband has already cheated. Wife of couple 3 found out what he had said and asked couple 2 if it was true. I think they should tell her because it’s a health issue. I also think the husband told our friends specifically because he’s a coward and actually wants them to tell his wife. What does TK think? 


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  • ei34ei34 member
    Seventh Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    @levioosa I think the Wife3 should be told but it should come from whomever among you guys she's closest to.  If I was in her shoes I'd want to know but i'd rather hear it from a friend than an acquaintance if possible.
    MissKittyDanger
  • levioosa said:
    So I have a question for you guys that’s related. We had a situation come up on our trip this weekend (that thankfully FI and I were not directly in the middle of). So we went with two other couples on our trip. We’re acquaintances with the third couple and we’ve done trips with them before. Couple 3 is good friends with Couple 2. Well, the husband of couple 3 told husband of couple 2 that he is planning to cheat this coming weekend on a “guy’s trip” and is so excited to do it he even has his stuff packed up and ready to go. Couple 3 wife knows something is wrong but is in denial. Im like 98% sure the husband has already cheated. Wife of couple 3 found out what he had said and asked couple 2 if it was true. I think they should tell her because it’s a health issue. I also think the husband told our friends specifically because he’s a coward and actually wants them to tell his wife. What does TK think? 
    I think you should no longer socialize with husband 3 and tell wife 3 what you heard. 
    Yep.  Also, I'd tell couple 2 that they suck.  Repeating a rumor is one thing, but H#3 said that shit out loud to H#2.   And it's clear they're/he's not doing this to open their marriage or anything.  I'm sure that they didn't want to ruin the trip and/or not 'involve' themselves in another marriage, but that's 'moo' since H#3 decided to show his ass.  Also, it's as simple as repeating what was said as verbatim as possible and then saying, "I think you need to go talk to him," and repeat as necessary.  
    STARMOON44charlotte989875OurWildKingdom
  • levioosalevioosa Southern California member
    5000 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    ei34 said:
    @levioosa I think the Wife3 should be told but it should come from whomever among you guys she's closest to.  If I was in her shoes I'd want to know but i'd rather hear it from a friend than an acquaintance if possible.
    Oh yeah, we’re not close at all and I only heard it second hand from our friends who were at a loss and trying to come to terms with the weekend. I guess the whole time husband 3 was trying to get husband 2 to ditch the rest of us to go party and pick up women. I’ve never liked husband 3. I think he’s a huge douche. I’m just shocked that couple 2 is even still thinking of trying to be friends with him.  


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  • The friendship would be over but once the information is out that someone either has or is planning to cheat I think you (general you) are obligated to say something.

    This stops being a 'not my circus not my monkeys' situation when it involves the health of someone else.     

    @kerbohl do we know that the H specifically said "Unfaithful" or did he say to his wife, "Brandon had a lap dance in a private room" and now the LW is spinning it as unfaithful?    Exactly what happened here would be a huge help to identify if these guys had legal NO business transactions (things that would not be legal in Nevada),  or was there some kind of kissing, mutual genital exposure?   None of that is clear and the LW didn't really help here. 
    charlotte989875
  • levioosa said:
    So I have a question for you guys that’s related. We had a situation come up on our trip this weekend (that thankfully FI and I were not directly in the middle of). So we went with two other couples on our trip. We’re acquaintances with the third couple and we’ve done trips with them before. Couple 3 is good friends with Couple 2. Well, the husband of couple 3 told husband of couple 2 that he is planning to cheat this coming weekend on a “guy’s trip” and is so excited to do it he even has his stuff packed up and ready to go. Couple 3 wife knows something is wrong but is in denial. Im like 98% sure the husband has already cheated. Wife of couple 3 found out what he had said and asked couple 2 if it was true. I think they should tell her because it’s a health issue. I also think the husband told our friends specifically because he’s a coward and actually wants them to tell his wife. What does TK think? 
    I'm normally on the side of "don't get involved" because people don't know what is going on in other marriages.  But, in this case, the wife is asking Couple #2.  As it turns out.  About something they literally heard with their own ears...not gossip/rumors...from the H.

    Not talking about you, @levioosa.  Talking as if I were part of Couple #2.  If it were me, I'd tell the wife, since she asked and I heard it directly from this guy's mouth.  He doesn't seem to care much about being secretive anyway.  And it's not my obligation to keep his secrets and especially not my obligation to lie to my friend, ie his wife.
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    levioosaVarunaTTcharlotte989875MesmrEwe
  • levioosalevioosa Southern California member
    5000 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    mrsconn23 said:
    levioosa said:
    So I have a question for you guys that’s related. We had a situation come up on our trip this weekend (that thankfully FI and I were not directly in the middle of). So we went with two other couples on our trip. We’re acquaintances with the third couple and we’ve done trips with them before. Couple 3 is good friends with Couple 2. Well, the husband of couple 3 told husband of couple 2 that he is planning to cheat this coming weekend on a “guy’s trip” and is so excited to do it he even has his stuff packed up and ready to go. Couple 3 wife knows something is wrong but is in denial. Im like 98% sure the husband has already cheated. Wife of couple 3 found out what he had said and asked couple 2 if it was true. I think they should tell her because it’s a health issue. I also think the husband told our friends specifically because he’s a coward and actually wants them to tell his wife. What does TK think? 
    I think you should no longer socialize with husband 3 and tell wife 3 what you heard. 
    Yep.  Also, I'd tell couple 2 that they suck.  Repeating a rumor is one thing, but H#3 said that shit out loud to H#2.   And it's clear they're/he's not doing this to open their marriage or anything.  I'm sure that they didn't want to ruin the trip and/or not 'involve' themselves in another marriage, but that's 'moo' since H#3 decided to show his ass.  Also, it's as simple as repeating what was said as verbatim as possible and then saying, "I think you need to go talk to him," and repeat as necessary.  
    That’s basically what I told them. There’s also some other stuff that makes this whole situation even worse and I’m just over here like “you have to tell her or you guys suck and are shitty friends.” 


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    mrsconn23
  • mrsconn23mrsconn23 member
    Knottie Warrior 10000 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    edited July 18
    levioosa said:
    mrsconn23 said:
    levioosa said:
    So I have a question for you guys that’s related. We had a situation come up on our trip this weekend (that thankfully FI and I were not directly in the middle of). So we went with two other couples on our trip. We’re acquaintances with the third couple and we’ve done trips with them before. Couple 3 is good friends with Couple 2. Well, the husband of couple 3 told husband of couple 2 that he is planning to cheat this coming weekend on a “guy’s trip” and is so excited to do it he even has his stuff packed up and ready to go. Couple 3 wife knows something is wrong but is in denial. Im like 98% sure the husband has already cheated. Wife of couple 3 found out what he had said and asked couple 2 if it was true. I think they should tell her because it’s a health issue. I also think the husband told our friends specifically because he’s a coward and actually wants them to tell his wife. What does TK think? 
    I think you should no longer socialize with husband 3 and tell wife 3 what you heard. 
    Yep.  Also, I'd tell couple 2 that they suck.  Repeating a rumor is one thing, but H#3 said that shit out loud to H#2.   And it's clear they're/he's not doing this to open their marriage or anything.  I'm sure that they didn't want to ruin the trip and/or not 'involve' themselves in another marriage, but that's 'moo' since H#3 decided to show his ass.  Also, it's as simple as repeating what was said as verbatim as possible and then saying, "I think you need to go talk to him," and repeat as necessary.  
    That’s basically what I told them. There’s also some other stuff that makes this whole situation even worse and I’m just over here like “you have to tell her or you guys suck and are shitty friends.” 
    Ugh.  Dealing with messy friends is exhausting.  We have a divorced friend who's a hot mess.  DH tries to gently tell him to, like, figure it out...but there's only so much leading a horse to water you can do. 

    It's just hilarious to me, at times, to see these people my age and older who act like my 18 year old.  Not that I 'adult' perfectly, by a long stretch, but the HS level drama makes me want to be all, "Aren't you tired?  Why can't you get rid of the shit that's not serving you?"  

    I have to really like you to listen to your peripheral drama.  Also, DH and I are so in tune on what drives us crazy about certain people/situations that we talk a LOT of shit to each other and eyeroll at the same things.  ;) 
  • kerbohlkerbohl member
    Seventh Anniversary 500 Love Its 1000 Comments First Answer
    banana468 said:
    The friendship would be over but once the information is out that someone either has or is planning to cheat I think you (general you) are obligated to say something.

    This stops being a 'not my circus not my monkeys' situation when it involves the health of someone else.     

    @kerbohl do we know that the H specifically said "Unfaithful" or did he say to his wife, "Brandon had a lap dance in a private room" and now the LW is spinning it as unfaithful?    Exactly what happened here would be a huge help to identify if these guys had legal NO business transactions (things that would not be legal in Nevada),  or was there some kind of kissing, mutual genital exposure?   None of that is clear and the LW didn't really help here. 
    Good point!  I forgot about the LW bias. 

    Still sort of a bad friend, though, even if it is something innocent.  What if he had come back and said "You should have seen all the alcohol those guys downed.  I made sure to drink in moderation"  I'd think he was judgy, and then if I found out he was doing the same thing, I'd think he was a hypocrite and liar. 
    imageimage
  • banana468 said:
    The friendship would be over but once the information is out that someone either has or is planning to cheat I think you (general you) are obligated to say something.

    This stops being a 'not my circus not my monkeys' situation when it involves the health of someone else.     

    @kerbohl do we know that the H specifically said "Unfaithful" or did he say to his wife, "Brandon had a lap dance in a private room" and now the LW is spinning it as unfaithful?    Exactly what happened here would be a huge help to identify if these guys had legal NO business transactions (things that would not be legal in Nevada),  or was there some kind of kissing, mutual genital exposure?   None of that is clear and the LW didn't really help here. 
    Although, bolded could still be accurate.
    Would I consider it as unfaithful? I'm honestly not sure. It think it would depend on level of lap dance.
    In main area? - no.
    Back room? - Definitely questionable and it would make me question a lot.
  • See, IMO I don't care about where it is if the action is the same.   But what I do want is honesty.  When DH hosted his BF's BP 3 years ago I knew there would be in hotel room adult entertainment.   I told DH that I didn't love it but he was honest: there may be a lap dance and clearly that's as far as it will go.   

    And for some this may not matter but because DH is not the stripper/club type I rolled with it and decided that this wasn't a battle worth picking.     For me that DOES make a difference.   
    charlotte989875MissKittyDanger
  • MyNameIsNotMyNameIsNot Atlanta member
    Ninth Anniversary 5000 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    I always find it interesting there can be such a wide variety of opinion on stripping/cheating.  I don't mean from WW specifically, but just in general.

    I personally land pretty far into it's NBD.  LW, that stripper was giving your H a private dance because that's her JOB.  She is not interested in your man or any of her other customers.  And your H was not interested in her, other than it all being part of the party atmosphere.

    With that said, IF she and her H had conversation about what was and what was not allowed on the strip club visits and he betrayed that, then that's different.  Even the "touching", I'd need to know more about.  I think for most couples that touching another person's private parts is something that doesn't need to be specifically said is not allowed.  But a hug.  Touching her waist or arm.  Meh.  I wouldn't care, though understand some people would.  I could see it being debatable.  

    FWIW, it's against the law to touch strippers at all in Louisiana and bouncers will throw people out with a quickness if it happens in the main part of the club.  Private rooms are technically the same rules/laws, but they are largely ignored.  Or so I've heard.

    And one last thing.  Being a New Orleanian, attitudes like the LW is such an irk of mine.  LW, seriously, New Orleans isn't Sodom and Gomorrah.  We're not just bars and strip clubs.  We don't change people into supposed drunks and cheaters with our "wanton ways".  So if you're worried about your H's behavior at a bachelor party, then worry about that.  But don't throw the "oh no, in New Orleans again" into it.  Because I'm sure he doesn't need to even leave your own city to have private dances with strippers, if that's what he is going to do.  
    This is really interesting to me too, outside of just strippers.

    I have a good friend who is non-monogamous. I went out to visit her this spring, and while there we talked a lot about how her marriage works and rules and that. When I first heard the idea, it sounded so foreign to me, but I've been thinking about it more like a spectrum vs. black and white open/closed relationships. e.g. I wouldn't be bothered if H flirted with a stranger, but it would be a problem if he got her number. It's like every couple has to define the boundary themselves. It's when they don't communicate about the boundaries that these problems come up. 
    charlotte989875short+sassyMissKittyDangerkerbohl
  • I always find it interesting there can be such a wide variety of opinion on stripping/cheating.  I don't mean from WW specifically, but just in general.

    I personally land pretty far into it's NBD.  LW, that stripper was giving your H a private dance because that's her JOB.  She is not interested in your man or any of her other customers.  And your H was not interested in her, other than it all being part of the party atmosphere.

    With that said, IF she and her H had conversation about what was and what was not allowed on the strip club visits and he betrayed that, then that's different.  Even the "touching", I'd need to know more about.  I think for most couples that touching another person's private parts is something that doesn't need to be specifically said is not allowed.  But a hug.  Touching her waist or arm.  Meh.  I wouldn't care, though understand some people would.  I could see it being debatable.  

    FWIW, it's against the law to touch strippers at all in Louisiana and bouncers will throw people out with a quickness if it happens in the main part of the club.  Private rooms are technically the same rules/laws, but they are largely ignored.  Or so I've heard.

    And one last thing.  Being a New Orleanian, attitudes like the LW is such an irk of mine.  LW, seriously, New Orleans isn't Sodom and Gomorrah.  We're not just bars and strip clubs.  We don't change people into supposed drunks and cheaters with our "wanton ways".  So if you're worried about your H's behavior at a bachelor party, then worry about that.  But don't throw the "oh no, in New Orleans again" into it.  Because I'm sure he doesn't need to even leave your own city to have private dances with strippers, if that's what he is going to do.  
    @short+sassy FTW!!!!! 

    But I completely agree here. My H at a strip club doesn’t bug me. I honestly wouldn’t care if he touched her butt or her boobs. Whatevs. We’ve been to strip clubs (way back when) together and honestly strippers are real clear about where you can and can’t touch, what you can and can’t do. It’s all a business! And I don’t care if he tells me or not. I know what’s going on at a strip club so I sort of don’t get the “I need to know exactly what happened!!”  Umm, ladies took their clothes off, danced, and got paid. 

    But different strokes, I’m probably on the extreme here, but if you’re worried about your partner cheating they’re probably not doing it with a stripper. 
    I never thought about it this way, but now I'm wondering if some of the "strippers and strip clubs, so awful" attitude that we see from this LW and that previous poster on here come from people who have never actually been to a strip club.  I think this is an area where some peoples' imaginations are probably so much worse than the reality.  Granted, I've only been a few times.  But, just like @charlotte989875 described, it was always pretty tame and above board.
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  • VarunaTTVarunaTT member
    Knottie Warrior 10000 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    edited July 18
    Some of it also depends on state/city ordinances.  The strip bars here don't allow any touching and there has to be a foot between the stripper and patron (interestingly enough this is used again drag shows more than strippers in this city) so there are no lap dances, just a special private dance on a small stage with you sitting on a couch that was in another part of the bar, but still open.

    Same state, different and bigger city, full lap dances allowed but you are not allowed to touch the stripper basically at all.  Most people just leave their hands by their sides.  ETA:  the places I've been that had lap dances, have never had private rooms.  I wonder what the rules are surrounding those.
    charlotte989875short+sassy
  • VarunaTT said:
    Some of it also depends on state/city ordinances.  The strip bars here don't allow any touching and there has to be a foot between the stripper and patron (interestingly enough this is used again drag shows more than strippers in this city) so there are no lap dances, just a special private dance on a small stage with you sitting on a couch that was in another part of the bar, but still open.

    Same state, different and bigger city, full lap dances allowed but you are not allowed to touch the stripper basically at all.  Most people just leave their hands by their sides.  ETA:  the places I've been that had lap dances, have never had private rooms.  I wonder what the rules are surrounding those.
    I agree.  I think this is an area of the law that can actually have all kinds of rules that vary widely by the state and even city/county.

    I don't know if it is still like this but, back when I lived in CA, full nudity strip clubs could not serve alcohol.  So the age limit was usually 18 to go to those clubs.  I think there are a lot of states/areas that don't allow full nudity at all.

    But "topless only" clubs could serve alcohol.  So the age limit was usually 21 to go to those, lol.
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  • MesmrEweMesmrEwe member
    Knottie Warrior 2500 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    levioosa said:
    Are we absolutely sure this isn’t the knottie from a few months back?

    SITB:

    LW - Our opinions and advice have not changed.  As Chris Rock mentioned in his routine years ago, "No matter what a stripper tells you, there is no sex in the Champagne Room!".  If the subject is a deal-breaker for you and you will never forgive him and do not want to be married at him for briefly touching a stripper during a bachelor party, by all means, please give him his freedom sooner than later so that you both can move on with your lives without eachother in them!
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