Wedding Woes

LW, I can't even with you. Neither could Ann, clearly.

Dear Prudence,

I have been friends with “Ann” for more than a decade. We’ve supported each other through divorces, new relationships, childbirth, and childrearing. We have a group text thread with another friend. Our topics of conversation run the gamut from very serious to very silly and sometimes very crass. Nothing has ever seemed off-limits. During early lockdown, Ann started engaging in what seemed like risky behavior. She was going on multiple Tinder dates with strangers and not social distancing, going out in her town, etc

I never commented on it until she’d been avoiding our group text for several days. I texted her, “You fucked ‘Mr. Third Tinder Date Guy,’ didn’t you?” I was using it as a teasing opener to why she’d gone dark on the group thread. She replied “I’m done with you,” and then didn’t reply to any further texts or phone calls. (I sent many in quick succession trying to figure out what the hell just happened.) It’s one thing to have a problem and be angry and want to talk something out, but to drop a bomb and leave no opening for communication is awful and unfair.

I tried calling at least 15 times. After radio silence, I texted her that she owed me an explanation and that I found her behavior “disgusting.” I texted her that I’m not disposable and deserve the respect of an explanation. I told her that she made me feel like actual garbage and that I thought it was despicable to treat a friend of 12 years like that. Days later she only replied to chastise my reaction to her awful behavior, and said that me calling her behavior disgusting made her more resolute in her decision to be done with me.

She still never offered an explanation to why she was done with me in the first place! I don’t feel safe in a relationship of any kind that can be destroyed by one joke or crass comment (even though there’s a history of both in our conversations). The other option is that Ann had been accumulating grievances and never addressing them with me, then dumped me after some last straw in a pile of straw I never knew existed. That also feels like an emotionally unsafe relationship. In an effort not to be a hypocrite, I wrote her a letter explaining that I had no interest in reconciling and explained why, citing the reasons above.

I’ve mostly moved on, but every once in a while, the sting of being treated as disposable creeps back in. Am I crazy for taking this so personally? Did I mishandle things by seconding against ever reconciling? I want to work through issues, but I don’t want to accept being treated like trash.

—Dumped by a Friend

Re: LW, I can't even with you. Neither could Ann, clearly.

  • You are trash and Ann rightly put you on the curb. 
  • you treated HER like trash.  She threw you away like she should have. 
  • You can start by not entering judgemental behavior against a friend in a text. 

    If you're actually concerned for her then you talk to her and listen to what she says rather than rush to snap judgements.  

    A bit of introspection is a good idea here.
  • So as someone who has been dropped by former friends without explanation, I have to actually say - yes. Ann should give a reason for LW.
    Could LW have crossed a line? Sure. But if Ann doesn't tell LW, they will never know and even potentially apologize or adjust their behaviour in general in the future.

    Does Ann have to give LW another chance? 100% no they do not. But I agree LW deserves an answer instead of just being dropped. They'll spend too much time wondering wtf happened without knowing.
  • So as someone who has been dropped by former friends without explanation, I have to actually say - yes. Ann should give a reason for LW.
    Could LW have crossed a line? Sure. But if Ann doesn't tell LW, they will never know and even potentially apologize or adjust their behaviour in general in the future.

    Does Ann have to give LW another chance? 100% no they do not. But I agree LW deserves an answer instead of just being dropped. They'll spend too much time wondering wtf happened without knowing.
    Disagree here.  LW needs to reread the above letter and ask herself how she'd feel if the tables were turned and she picked up her phone to accusations and days later was told her behavior was disgusting.  

    If you did that to me you stop being worthy of my time or words.
  • mrsconn23mrsconn23 member
    First Anniversary First Answer 5 Love Its First Comment
    edited March 2021
    I don't think Ann needed to give LW a reason.  This LW lacks the self-awareness to see their actions and words as harmful to Ann.  Dollars to doughnuts, LW has been this passive-aggressive or really, aggressive-aggressive the whole time and that bold statement was the final straw.  It was not a joke, especially over text.  It was meant to shame Ann.  

    Ann engaging in any dialogue with LW will only lead to Ann having to put up with more abuse from LW and LW continuing to try to get the upper hand they definitely don't deserve.   LW called her FIFTEEN times.  That's harassment.  

    The only way Ann can teach LW is with her actions.  
  • banana468 said:
    So as someone who has been dropped by former friends without explanation, I have to actually say - yes. Ann should give a reason for LW.
    Could LW have crossed a line? Sure. But if Ann doesn't tell LW, they will never know and even potentially apologize or adjust their behaviour in general in the future.

    Does Ann have to give LW another chance? 100% no they do not. But I agree LW deserves an answer instead of just being dropped. They'll spend too much time wondering wtf happened without knowing.
    Disagree here.  LW needs to reread the above letter and ask herself how she'd feel if the tables were turned and she picked up her phone to accusations and days later was told her behavior was disgusting.  

    If you did that to me you stop being worthy of my time or words.
    I see what you're saying, but what LW may think is a non-issue, it could be a larger issue with Ann.

    3 years ago I literally had this happen and still have no answers. I have looked at the whole situation and still cannot get an answer.
  • banana468 said:
    So as someone who has been dropped by former friends without explanation, I have to actually say - yes. Ann should give a reason for LW.
    Could LW have crossed a line? Sure. But if Ann doesn't tell LW, they will never know and even potentially apologize or adjust their behaviour in general in the future.

    Does Ann have to give LW another chance? 100% no they do not. But I agree LW deserves an answer instead of just being dropped. They'll spend too much time wondering wtf happened without knowing.
    Disagree here.  LW needs to reread the above letter and ask herself how she'd feel if the tables were turned and she picked up her phone to accusations and days later was told her behavior was disgusting.  

    If you did that to me you stop being worthy of my time or words.
    I see what you're saying, but what LW may think is a non-issue, it could be a larger issue with Ann.

    3 years ago I literally had this happen and still have no answers. I have looked at the whole situation and still cannot get an answer.
    Sometimes things don't work out.  And if your situation 3 years ago was not you making accusations to a friend then I'm sorry you don't have an answer. 

    But if 3 years ago you texted a friend who had previously gone quiet to make accusations insinuating bad choices, later called the friend's behavior disgusting and then harassed the friend with more phone calls than a bad telemarketer then you were wrong. 

    LW is acting self righteous and superior to Ann.  Ann does not answer to LW, does not need to defend her behavior to LW and does not OWE the LW anything.  If the LW wanted to repair anything they needed to start by using the words, "I am sorry."  Those were never used and never were going to be used.  Still now, the entire letter reeks of entitlement with no comprehension that it was their behavior that lead to this.  

    Dollars to donuts, besides the above, the additional reason that LW is not getting an explanation is that they would never believe that their own behavior was arrogant and sanctimonious and no explanation is going to get them to understand it. 



  • banana468 said:
    So as someone who has been dropped by former friends without explanation, I have to actually say - yes. Ann should give a reason for LW.
    Could LW have crossed a line? Sure. But if Ann doesn't tell LW, they will never know and even potentially apologize or adjust their behaviour in general in the future.

    Does Ann have to give LW another chance? 100% no they do not. But I agree LW deserves an answer instead of just being dropped. They'll spend too much time wondering wtf happened without knowing.
    Disagree here.  LW needs to reread the above letter and ask herself how she'd feel if the tables were turned and she picked up her phone to accusations and days later was told her behavior was disgusting.  

    If you did that to me you stop being worthy of my time or words.
    I see what you're saying, but what LW may think is a non-issue, it could be a larger issue with Ann.

    3 years ago I literally had this happen and still have no answers. I have looked at the whole situation and still cannot get an answer.

    SIB: It really sucks that happened to you.  But in THIS situation, LW is acting like a lunatic.  It's scary to me that people can have literally no self-awareness to see how or why this may have happened.  She treated her friend like garbage.  She was mean, and judgmental and instead of apologizing, doubled down on the meanness and harassment.  She is not owed anything. 
  • No one owes anyone friendship. It’s sad when a relationship ends, but too often providing an explanation is a) an opportunity to experience more mistreatment, b) the starting of much drama, c) pointless, and d) cruel. 
  • LW is so over the line I doubt she can even see the line behind her. 

    But I wonder if LW ever talked to the third friend in the group. I’m betting they are on Ann’s side and has tried to explain it to LW who just doesn’t want to hear it. Repeatedly trying to get Ann to answer is abusive and that alone is grounds for Ann to block LW and never have contact again. 
    You know, that's another layer to all of this.  LW made a 3rd person witness to their nastiness.  Also even if Ann is confident that 3rd person is on her side, getting called what amounts to a whore in a text message 'in front of' a 3rd party is still embarrassing and probably gave Ann half second of worry person 3 sees her the same way. 
  • I have a feeling I have a ex-friend who feels like this when I cut off communication. They didn’t call or text me fifteen times though. Sometimes you have to cut people off for your own sanity and well-being. 


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  • mrsconn23 said:
    LW is so over the line I doubt she can even see the line behind her. 

    But I wonder if LW ever talked to the third friend in the group. I’m betting they are on Ann’s side and has tried to explain it to LW who just doesn’t want to hear it. Repeatedly trying to get Ann to answer is abusive and that alone is grounds for Ann to block LW and never have contact again. 
    You know, that's another layer to all of this.  LW made a 3rd person witness to their nastiness.  Also even if Ann is confident that 3rd person is on her side, getting called what amounts to a whore in a text message 'in front of' a 3rd party is still embarrassing and probably gave Ann half second of worry person 3 sees her the same way. 
    I didn't read it as the text to Ann was in the group text.  If it was, that's an added layer and reason that she's cut off. 
  • LW is even judgmental of Ann's "risky behavior" in the Prudie letter. 

    I really hope Prudie read her the riot act. She's a POS. 
  • LW is even judgmental of Ann's "risky behavior" in the Prudie letter. 

    I really hope Prudie read her the riot act. She's a POS. 
    Prudie was way softer on LW than I expected.  
  • Prudie's response:

    I’m not going to make a ruling on whether anyone is “crazy” or not, although it’s a question I’m often asked. (I don’t think it’s useful or kind to categorize someone as either “crazy” or “not crazy,” especially not for the purposes of determining whether a relationship is salvageable.) But I do think you mishandled things with Ann, quite seriously, and in a way that sheds light on why she may not have felt prepared to discuss her frustrations with you before.

    Let’s go back to early lockdown. You had a close friend whose COVID risks struck you as dangerous, you were concerned about said risks, and you also knew she was avoiding conversations in the group chat. You didn’t give her a call or ask how she was doing. You didn’t say, “Is everything all right? I noticed you haven’t been responding to the group thread—let me know if it’s been getting too overwhelming to keep up with it, or if you’d rather stay in touch some other way.” You joked about something that bothered you instead of addressing it straightforwardly, and that joke was very much at Ann’s expense. That was not straightforward, kind, or helpful, and I think you know that, which is why you’ve tried in your letter to characterize it as affectionate chiding that Ann ought to have taken good-naturedly. Then, when she responded angrily, you bombarded her with numerous texts and 15 calls, which is a wildly inappropriate way to try to force someone else to give you what you want.

    You knew perfectly well that Ann didn’t want to talk. You could have said something like, “This is really unexpected. I’ve obviously hurt your feelings. I’m sorry; I didn’t want to do that. Let me know if you want to talk about this later.” Ann continued to make it clear that she didn’t want to discuss it, at which point you wrote her an angry letter detailing something she already knew, which is that the two of you are no longer friends. I doubt at this point that it would be possible for the two of you to “work through issues”—that letter was a pretty definitive way of ensuring reconciliation remains impossible—but I do think you can act differently in the future so that other friends don’t find the prospect of telling you that you’ve hurt their feelings quite so daunting.

    None of this means that you are an awful friend, that everything must have been entirely your fault, or that Ann acted blamelessly during this fight. But you missed an opportunity to grant an angry, hurt friend the time and space she might have needed in order to revisit the conversation once you had both calmed down. As a result, you seem to have lost that friendship for good. Since you believe you could never feel safe with her again, that may be for the best. But emotional safety is a two-way street. You can’t control how Ann feels about you or what she does in the future. You can’t force her to listen to you yell at her again. What you can control is how you treat your other friends, whether you continue to make “crass jokes” about serious issues that require direct and caring conversation, whether you apologize when you’ve hurt someone’s feelings or immediately demand that they explain exactly why they’re hurt, whether you take “No” or “Not right now” for a valid answer or respond by blowing up someone else’s phone. Finding healthier, slower ways to respond to your own feelings of hurt and anger will go a long way toward ensuring you don’t lose another friendship the way you lost this one.

  • I'm sure it would be nice for LW to have an explanation.  And I'm sure LW could have possibly used it to grow as a person.  But, the way that they tried to go about getting this explanation makes it seem like they weren't actually doing this to repair the friendship or help themselves learn to be a better friend, but to continue an argument.  They repeatedly tried to essentially yell at Ann under the pretense of trying to get an explanation to repair the relationship.  That's abusive and manipulative behaviour, and Ann is safer not engaging.  LW needs to look in the mirror if they want to understand what is truly awful behaviour.  

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