Is he really partying it up and sloppy or just more relaxed than normal?

mrsconn23

Dear Prudence,

My dear husband enjoys drinking and I don’t. He’s having some of his friends and colleagues come over to our house in a couple weeks. None of them are married or have kids like we do. I always feel like the world of single people and kids is so different. When DH is around these types of people, he tends to be more social and “free.” He will drink more, cuss more, and sometimes around the kids. I just can’t get comfortable with this behavior and have confronted him about it many times. We’ve gone to therapy about this. His defense is that he is in his own home enjoying a good time and not out running around getting drunk. He feels I’m not supporting him with activities he enjoys. I am always left feeling like an outsider at these types of gatherings. I don’t drink. Rarely swear. Not a verbose or loud person.

— Am I a Prude?

banana468

Yes.  Yes you're a prude. 

Quite frankly, if that's how you behaved with the 'I so rarely swear and don't drink and I'm just not loud or verbose," then.....who will want to hang out with you?? 

mrsconn23

LW, you sound exhausting.  You went to therapy over this?  

Unclench your asshole and have a glass of wine. You're making yourself an outsider by getting wound around the axle over mostly harmless behavior.  I bet your kids have heard swearing outside your home. 

But seriously, unless he's super sloppy and inappropriate...I think the problem is you. 

levioosa

LW sounds super annoying and judgy. Have a margarita, jfc. 

CharmedPam

I always felt like I wouldn’t get tipsy enough to start swearing a whole bunch until AFTER my friends’ kids went to bed.  can you start the events later? And how old are these kids?

banana468

CharmedPam said:

I always felt like I wouldn’t get tipsy enough to start swearing a whole bunch until AFTER my friends’ kids went to bed.  can you start the events later? And how old are these kids?

I feel like the LW is going to refer to words like crap and phrases like "OMG" as swearing and that she's heard them at all is part of the problem.

Something also tells me that the dude group gatherings are times when she wants to pull the kids away and retreat into parenting mode only.  

I'm wondering if the LW is a really young wife who married with a lack of real world experience. 

VarunaTT

She's mad b/c she feels like an outsider, all the rest is just excuses to cover that up.

I get it.  Being the sober person around the drunk people isn't all fun and games.  That doesn't mean that her husband has to not be social and drink if he wants to.  Go read a book or something, y'all don't have to be attached at the hip all the damn time.

banana468

VarunaTT said:

She's mad b/c she feels like an outsider, all the rest is just excuses to cover that up.

I get it.  Being the sober person around the drunk people isn't all fun and games.  That doesn't mean that her husband has to not be social and drink if he wants to.  Go read a book or something, y'all don't have to be attached at the hip all the damn time.

And is he drunk?  Or is he drinking while socializing with these guys and they are younger, single and making more crass comments? 

Look I'm not going to defend bad behavior - but there is something about hanging out with friends over a few drinks that has a tendency to let you get your guard down and be frank...and yet OK to drive home. 

mrsconn23

VarunaTT said:

She's mad b/c she feels like an outsider, all the rest is just excuses to cover that up.

I get it.  Being the sober person around the drunk people isn't all fun and games.  That doesn't mean that her husband has to not be social and drink if he wants to.  Go read a book or something, y'all don't have to be attached at the hip all the damn time.

It sucks, so I understand that perspective. 

I agree that LW should remove themselves and kids from these situations if it's too much to deal with.  It doesn't sound like it's every weekend, but every once in awhile.  LW dragged him to therapy over this. At this point, learn to live with it and stop harping, join in, or what...split up?  He clearly doesn't see a problem with it and has dug in that he's not going to change.  So IDK what other options LW has. 

charlotte989875

Do you have to be at these gatherings? If it’s not your cup of tea can you plan to take the kids to a movie or out to dinner? If they’re in bed ran you read/ watch TV/ have your own friends over? 

I get that being sober when other people aren’t can suck if the people are assholes about it. But it doesn’t sound they’re trying to get you to drink or do anything you’re uncomfortable with. It sounds like you don’t like this at all. 

maine7mob

I'm curious to know what the therapist thought. It sounds as if LW grew up in a home where a parent was an alcoholic or extremely anti-drinking. Both of these situations can really mess with your head. If either is true, she needs therapy to deal with it so that she can have a functional relationship with her spouse. But it doesn't sound as if the husband is out of line (these friends are coming "in a couple of weeks," according to the letter, so clearly, they're not over there partying every weekend.)

It is true that people with kids and people without have different interests and values, but it doesn't mean that one is more virtuous. This situation sorts itself out over time, anyway, as families with young kids tend to gravitate toward other young families. 

As far as the swearing goes, if the husband and his friends are dropping f-bombs and the kids are little, she can pack them off to bed or take them to do an activity they enjoy. Language is contagious, so it's good not to expose little ones to rude words too often unless you want them telling off their teachers in salty language. 

banana468

maine7mob said:

I'm curious to know what the therapist thought. It sounds as if LW grew up in a home where a parent was an alcoholic or extremely anti-drinking. Both of these situations can really mess with your head. If either is true, she needs therapy to deal with it so that she can have a functional relationship with her spouse. But it doesn't sound as if the husband is out of line (these friends are coming "in a couple of weeks," according to the letter, so clearly, they're not over there partying every weekend.)

It is true that people with kids and people without have different interests and values, but it doesn't mean that one is more virtuous. This situation sorts itself out over time, anyway, as families with young kids tend to gravitate toward other young families. 

As far as the swearing goes, if the husband and his friends are dropping f-bombs and the kids are little, she can pack them off to bed or take them to do an activity they enjoy. Language is contagious, so it's good not to expose little ones to rude words too often unless you want them telling off their teachers in salty language. 

Agreed.

Also, as a parent of smaller kids, I generally find that the kids wander to a conversation but the adults aren't hanging out with the kids.  

Perhaps this is now the advance notice for LW to make plans.  You know the guys will be over.  Take the kids out! 

Talk about ground rules: "Hey I know you guys let loose when they're over.  Can you keep the noise down after bedtime?" 

short+sassy

It's interesting to me reading the other posts because they are fairly anti-LW.  I'm not as much, but I can also tell my POV is very much influenced by my own childhood.

My parents weren't tea-totalers, but they rarely drank.  They had friends over all the time or we were taken to their friends houses.  Though, come to think of it, they didn't have many friends who didn't have kids.  It was a lot of couples who were just like them.  In their late 20s to 30s, with young children.  A beer or glass of wine here and there.  And usually that was just the friends, lol.  No cussing.  My parents rarely used 4-letter words, so it was notable when they did, lol.

I'm always extra careful to not curse when children are around...or really in public at all...and am surprised when parents do.  Though I don't side-eye it, unless it's excessive.  But, yeah.  I could see if I had children that I would not want drunk people and/or cussing around them.  I mean, it's degrees and it sounds like the LW is more uptight about it than I would be.  But I can understand where she is coming from.

It sounds like what the H is doing is occasional.  That part sounds fine.  And, if it is sometimes at their house, I think the LW is within her rights to set guidelines at least while the kids are around.  Or she can take them elsewhere.  She can also make an appearance and then do her own thing, even if it is just reading in bed.

MyNameIsNot

You refer to single people as "these types of people" and you wonder why you feel like an outsider? 

Sure, life is different if you're raising little kids, but parents are still people with interests and hobbies. You can be a parent but also watch football or play cards, with a drink even. 

banana468

@short+sassy I'm sort of the opposite.  I don't think I'm an alcoholic but I probably have 1-2 drinks most days.  
Ex: Last night it was after the kiddos went to bed and I poured myself some bourbon to sip while I folded laundry.

When we have parties there's alcohol.  It doesn't matter the type.  If we're hosting in our home and it's a kid's birthday or an adult event - we have it and offer it to those who are of age.  My kids know not to drink but also know how to open a beer.  

When we head to the marina with the kids that's an area of 
-plenty of adults drinking.  We do and so do many other parents.  
-Dudes are cursing at times.  There's even a series of T shirts going around that say, "I'm sorry for what I said while docking the boat."    It's not so common to the point that my kids come home with new phrases but I have heard a share of four letter words.  

That the LW's husband is also friends with SO many guys who are single makes me wonder if this is something like a young military marriage. 

mrsconn23

banana468 said:

@short+sassy I'm sort of the opposite.  I don't think I'm an alcoholic but I probably have 1-2 drinks most days.  
Ex: Last night it was after the kiddos went to bed and I poured myself some bourbon to sip while I folded laundry.

When we have parties there's alcohol.  It doesn't matter the type.  If we're hosting in our home and it's a kid's birthday or an adult event - we have it and offer it to those who are of age.  My kids know not to drink but also know how to open a beer.  

When we head to the marina with the kids that's an area of 
-plenty of adults drinking.  We do and so do many other parents.  
-Dudes are cursing at times.  There's even a series of T shirts going around that say, "I'm sorry for what I said while docking the boat."    It's not so common to the point that my kids come home with new phrases but I have heard a share of four letter words.  

That the LW's husband is also friends with SO many guys who are single makes me wonder if this is something like a young military marriage. 

Seriously, why don't we live closer to each other? 

Also I got an e-mail my kid was telling 'deez nutz' jokes at school a couple weeks ago, and I laughed instead of disciplining my kid.  So LW and I would definitely never be friends. 

short+sassy

banana468 said:

@short+sassy I'm sort of the opposite.  I don't think I'm an alcoholic but I probably have 1-2 drinks most days.  
Ex: Last night it was after the kiddos went to bed and I poured myself some bourbon to sip while I folded laundry.

When we have parties there's alcohol.  It doesn't matter the type.  If we're hosting in our home and it's a kid's birthday or an adult event - we have it and offer it to those who are of age.  My kids know not to drink but also know how to open a beer.  

When we head to the marina with the kids that's an area of 
-plenty of adults drinking.  We do and so do many other parents.  
-Dudes are cursing at times.  There's even a series of T shirts going around that say, "I'm sorry for what I said while docking the boat."    It's not so common to the point that my kids come home with new phrases but I have heard a share of four letter words.  

That the LW's husband is also friends with SO many guys who are single makes me wonder if this is something like a young military marriage. 

I only mentioned beer and wine, because that was all I ever saw served at parties as a kid.  But, for me, it's more the level of "drunkness" than the type of alcohol.

I personally don't think there's anything wrong with alcohol at parties, even when kids are around.  I've experienced that as an adult and it's usually NBD.  Or for parents just hanging out at home.

But, even as an adult, I'm uncomfortable around people who are really drunk.  Like can barely walk or talk type of drunk.  It's scary to see and I don't think that level of inebriation should be around children.

It's harder for me to say about the cursing.  There are levels of it that bother me as an adult, though they are pretty high, lol.  Not even so much specific words, but the regularity of it.  It's not so much I'm offended as it is, "If every other word out of your mouth is an f-bomb, then you don't have much to say.  And are either boring or angry or both and I don't want to be around that."  I won't lie that I'm not occasionally like that if I'm really upset.  But it's not all or even most of the time.  So if conversations like that bother me as an adult, I assume they'd bother me more if I had kids around.  

flantastic

I want to know LW's background. Both my parents drink now, my dad more than my mom, but I never recall seeing them drink, basically ever, until I was in college at least.

My mom's dad was an abusive alcoholic. I'm very sure it had to do with my dad being respectful of my mom as she processed her trauma and internalized that not all drinking has to turn out like that.

Edit: therapy was much less of a thing back then, and certainly not for her German background. It wouldn't have occurred to them. But that's what I would recommend for LW now, whatever the reason. And hope the husband is willing to bend a little in the meanwhile, even if he doesn't give up all his fun.

banana468

short+sassy said:

banana468 said:

@short+sassy I'm sort of the opposite.  I don't think I'm an alcoholic but I probably have 1-2 drinks most days.  
Ex: Last night it was after the kiddos went to bed and I poured myself some bourbon to sip while I folded laundry.

When we have parties there's alcohol.  It doesn't matter the type.  If we're hosting in our home and it's a kid's birthday or an adult event - we have it and offer it to those who are of age.  My kids know not to drink but also know how to open a beer.  

When we head to the marina with the kids that's an area of 
-plenty of adults drinking.  We do and so do many other parents.  
-Dudes are cursing at times.  There's even a series of T shirts going around that say, "I'm sorry for what I said while docking the boat."    It's not so common to the point that my kids come home with new phrases but I have heard a share of four letter words.  

That the LW's husband is also friends with SO many guys who are single makes me wonder if this is something like a young military marriage. 

I only mentioned beer and wine, because that was all I ever saw served at parties as a kid.  But, for me, it's more the level of "drunkness" than the type of alcohol.

I personally don't think there's anything wrong with alcohol at parties, even when kids are around.  I've experienced that as an adult and it's usually NBD.  Or for parents just hanging out at home.

But, even as an adult, I'm uncomfortable around people who are really drunk.  Like can barely walk or talk type of drunk.  It's scary to see and I don't think that level of inebriation should be around children.

It's harder for me to say about the cursing.  There are levels of it that bother me as an adult, though they are pretty high, lol.  Not even so much specific words, but the regularity of it.  It's not so much I'm offended as it is, "If every other word out of your mouth is an f-bomb, then you don't have much to say.  And are either boring or angry or both and I don't want to be around that."  I won't lie that I'm not occasionally like that if I'm really upset.  But it's not all or even most of the time.  So if conversations like that bother me as an adult, I assume they'd bother me more if I had kids around.  

I think I want to know if he's drunk or drinking.  If he has friends over from 5-10 and has 5 beers, he is likely not drunk.  That's one beer/hour.   Is he stumbling and slurring?  Or does he not drink with the wife and he does with the guy friends?   

The cursing is varied for me.  I get not wanting the kids to hear it.  I try not to around my own kiddos.  But I think there's a difference hearing dudes in the basement playing poker saying "Look at this hand!  Read 'em and weep bitches!" and hearing the f-word inserted because it's a great adjective, adverb, noun and verb and it is all you hear in a conversation.  

So I guess I also wonder if the wife knows that the dudes are around, why are the kids around?  If DH was going to do something that was "adults only" our kids wouldn't be in the mix.  He would be outside or in the basement or somewhere and the kids wouldn't be underfoot because that would be his time.  

The LW states that she doesn't drink.  As in - not for weddings, not on NYE - does not drink.  She does not swear.  She's not loud.  She's not a talker.  She feels out of place at a gathering of her husband and his "colleagues" (note:   COLLEAGUES!?!) and feels left out.  Maybe she also feels left out because while it's also her house he wants to let loose and have a gathering without his wife.  (and sometimes I will want to do things without my husband present - it works both ways!) Maybe she also feels left out if they're using words and she, by her own definition, is not verbose. 

It's like a young Duggar bride married outside the faith and she's shocked at how "those gentleman" really behave and she's getting the vapors.  Get out the smelling salts!  Someone's got Jim Beam! 

ILoveBeachMusic

flantastic said:

I want to know LW's background. Both my parents drink now, my dad more than my mom, but I never recall seeing them drink, basically ever, until I was in college at least.

My mom's dad was an abusive alcoholic. I'm very sure it had to do with my dad being respectful of my mom as she processed her trauma and internalized that not all drinking has to turn out like that.

Edit: therapy was much less of a thing back then, and certainly not for her German background. It wouldn't have occurred to them. But that's what I would recommend for LW now, whatever the reason. And hope the husband is willing to bend a little in the meanwhile, even if he doesn't give up all his fun.

LOL this is H and me. We very seldom drank when the kids lived at home but now we have wine regularly and old fashions have become the family beverage for gatherings. Even the kids have commented that they don't remember seeing us drink when they were younger. 

VarunaTT

I'm not so much anti-LW as I think LW is blowing something out of proportion.  I doubt that husband suddenly started drinking for social purposes the day their kid was born.  This feels just super pearl clutchy and judgy about what by her own description doesn't sound like some sort of bacchanal orgy.

I wonder what LW was like before children.

short+sassy

ILoveBeachMusic said:

LOL this is H and me. We very seldom drank when the kids lived at home but now we have wine regularly and old fashions have become the family beverage for gatherings. Even the kids have commented that they don't remember seeing us drink when they were younger. 

Every once in awhile...and only at a restaurant...I have now as an adult seen my mom drink a margarita (or talk about it, if we are on the phone).  Shock and pearl clutch! Lol.

But because of my upbringing, I drink with my mom the way I would drink at a lunch with coworkers.  One alcoholic beverage only.  Lest people side-eye me.  I don't know that my mom would side-eye me at 2.  I think she definitely would at 3, no matter how long the timeframe.