Not Engaged Yet

SO's Sticky Financial Situation (long, so sorry)

Warning-post and run. Or rather, post and sleep, but I'll be back tomorrow, bright and early!

It's long...sorry

SO and I have a great relationship. We're solid and open about it all. to cut to the chase, he made some bad (awful, unwise, idiotic, dumb, juvenile, etc, etc,) money decisions in his early 20s. Bought a car for an ex-fiance which got repo'd. her gift to him was a flat screen, which somehow ended up in his name (Still confused about that one??? And maybe why I have a thing against all this unnecessary exchanging of gifts). There are a few things from when he moved here from across the country (a storage unit with his bigger stuff he's still paying for and can't afford to go back and get now). And his college loans, but they haven't come calling yet.

It's all coming up in collections now (except student loans). All told it's probably in the neighborhood of 8 grand he owes. He works. In an industry he really likes. It doesn't pay well, though. He lives paycheck to paycheck and he tries to save about $50 a month. He doesn't spend much at all (now), so he's not living large, but he does have his past running after him. We think this is coming up now because he just bought a used car and the loan might have made him pop back on creditors maps. He got a loan from his credit union. He was without a car for all of winter and his previous car cost $100 and the only reason he sold it was because it failed emissions. 

Long story not so short, I'm unsure of what to do about this. Especially in the wake of the possibility of joining-at least partially-our finances. He works hard, has always had a steady job, has been trying to improve his credit, but can't really pay any of this back. At least not with any normal or minimal payments. 

Personally, my finances are fine, my credit score is great, I have very little debt, possibly a few hundred in credit cards (Damn you Target!), the two big ones are my current mortgage and my giant student loans (6 figure law school loans). But I will be okay. I'm fine with these loans. Given my current career path, these loans are expected and haven't negatively effected anything for me financially or credit wise (i.e. buying my house, credit score) 

I'm just not sure how to go about his finances. My gut is, no matter if we move in, get engaged, get married, to keep them separate until his are settled. I could and have offered to help, but honestly I'm being very coy about that. He doesn't want any help and wants to feel like he can take care of himself and his family on his own, or at least be an equal contributor. Hey, he's a guy. That's fine. I don't want to emasculate him. But I don't want him to hold up his life, or ours future together because he's forever trying to prove he's "the provider' or some sort of financial equal. It could easily take him 10 years to chip away at that debt, based on his current salary. 

I already view him as my total equal. It doesn't and never has mattered to me how much he makes. As long as he works consistently, it could pay sh!t as long as he's happy. But I come from a family where my mom was/is the breadwinner (she's working until the day I give birth. She's said that. She may have a wait, but corporate America seems to love her), so I'm used to this dynamic. She does (very) well (somewhat of an anomaly, when the woman is the breadwinner) so I've never wanted for anything, but I also don't strive for the big life. I want to make enough money to live, to raise a family, and be happy. That doesn't include a 5,000 square foot house or lavish trips, or a BMW. Love to travel, but can easily do that on the cheap with some work scouring the internet and saving $$$ over the course of a few months or years. Never wanted, had, or needed a new car. Blah, blah, blah, you get the picture. 

So do any of you have SO's who haven't been wise with their finances in the past? Has it ever given you pause to combine the funds? I feel like I'm playing some sort of "Rules" game when I say I don't want to emasculate him, but it's something that he cares about. He wants to be able to take care of his mom and me and our (future) family. I get it, but it sure makes him stubborn. Part of me just wants to pay the damn thing off! But that seems...unwise. And it's probably an insecurity on my part that I think if I'm too overpowering, if I push too hard and just pay for everything he will shut down. I love him, and I love this relationship, and I love us and I would have a terrible time if we were to separate because of this. We're not close to that, but I don't know how he's gonna feel 10 years down the line if he's felt that he hasn't contributed. I can see a lot of men easily being bothered by that. Having a "she doesn't need me, why am I here?" attitude. 

Thoughts? Questions? Slams because this is so long? All welcome! 

Holy crap this is long.

Re: SO's Sticky Financial Situation (long, so sorry)

  • luvdncn90luvdncn90 member
    100 Comments
    edited December 2011
    Ok I'm going to be honest with you, that was extremely long so I just skimmed. What I gathered though is your FI made some dumb choices and now he owes some major money and you're uncertain about how to go about your finances? Semi right?


    I got very lucky when I found M. He is very smart financially and that makes me comfortable enough to combine our finances when we do decide to get married. However if he owed a lot of money and was in some major debt I would definitely keep our finances seperate at least until he was able to settle his debt from the past.
     
    My mom once told me when you marry someone you're marrying them debt and all. Their debt is not just theirs anymore but it is now yours as well. Just something to think about. 8 grand is a lot of money and it doesn't seem like he's made much leway on paying it off yet. For me that would be kind of a huge problem. Money isn't the biggest factor in a relationship but it is a major part. You don't want to spend your whole life fighting about debt and being worried because you have this huge amount of debt to pay off.

    I don't know, this is tough. For me being financially stable and not having to worry about debt is a huge thing, which is why I have never taken out any loans, save up and only pay cash for the important things like cars and stuff, and make sure to be very careful with my credit card and how I chose to spend my money. But a lot of people now adays do have large amounts of debt because of student loans and stuff. So yeah, if I were in your shoes I would keep our finances seperate but that's just my opinion.

    ETA: For terrible spelling


  • edited December 2011
    I think it's completely normal and understandable to think in terms of 'our assets' and 'our debt' when you are thinking about marrying someone. BF and I are in kind of the opposite situation right now because I'm the one racking up law school debt and he's been graduated from college for a few years, has a good career, and almost no debt. Sometimes when I'm stressing about my student loans he tries to comfort me by saying that once I graduate he can support us with his salary and I can use my income to pay off my debt. When he says things like this I remind him and myself that we aren't engaged or married and if for some reason we end our relationship this will be my debt without his help to pay it off. Plus I'm like your BF in that I don't want to burden him with my debt. I think you should think of it like that and don't worry about or try to pay his debt until you are engaged or married because if your relationship ended up not working out then you would be out $8k and that would kinda suck.

    In terms of being the bread-winner, I really hope that that does not end up being a big issue for him. There is so much more to being the 'man' in the relationship than bringing home the most money and hopefully he will realize all of the things he can contribute to your life and the relationship that aren't monetary. BF and I joke about how if I make enough money as a lawyer then he can quit his job and become a stay at home dad. I don't know if that will actually happen, but it's nice to know that he is comfortable enough with himself and his contributions to the relationship that he won't feel un-needed if I do earn more than he does.
  • calindicalindi member
    5000 Comments Second Anniversary Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    I think as long as he's BF, then he can make those choices and struggle to pay it off.  As soon as he becomes FI and you both actively start planning on getting married, you're looking at being tied to that debt and bad credit one way or another.  Personally, as soon as he proposed, I'd tell him that it was important to me that he let me pay off his debt so it didn't become our debt. The interest rates piling up, the hit to the credit rating - all of that is bad and can be avoided by you helping him pay it off. 

     My FI is ridiculously logical, and we're very much on the same page about finances (thankfully, and due to some good planning, neither of us are in debt.  Well, I have a bigger credit card bill than I can afford this month now that I lost my job, but it's negligible in the scheme of things).  If he or I had debt, we'd find the way to pay it off that would cost the least in the long run.  If that required him paying off my debt (as we're looking at him paying my credit card bill) then I'd pay him back when I could if that's what I wanted to do.  But at least if I was paying him back, I wouldn't be dealing with collection agencies and interest rates.  Maybe try convincing him from that angle?

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  • DanieKADanieKA member
    Knottie Warrior 1000 Comments
    edited December 2011
    Thanks for the advice, ladies! Honestly, it's hard not to think of things as "our debt" now, but I think I'll let him "struggle" like he wants for now. We'll reevaluate when we get engaged. 

    Calindi, I didn't know you lost your job. I'm so sorry! That must be stressful while planning the wedding. I hope something you love comes up (if you haven't already found something). 
  • edited December 2011
    There are options out there to help with debt.  Sometimes you can call the lender and ask them if they can settle if you promise to make $X payment every month (usually a lot lower than the minimum).  Sometimes they will be happy enough if they're getting something each month.

    Maybe he could get a second job for 1-3 days a week for the sole purpose of chipping away at the debt.

    I understand that you don't want to interfere too much yet, especially since you're NEY.  I would definitely sit down after you get engaged and talk to him about a plan of action.  It isn't fair that when you get married, you're inheriting his debt too. GL!
  • edited December 2011
    Just know that even if you keep things separate, for the most part...when you marry someone, you marry their debt.

    Solution:  Make him get that shyt in control before you say "I Do."
  • edited December 2011
    I'm very lucky in that SO is very good with money, he's been working since he was 16 (he'll be 29 in a couple of weeks) and he paid the rent and bought the food when his mother was too ill to work.  He just paid off his student loans 5 years early and now he's just working on paying off the truck before he starts looking for houses.  But even with his good track records if we ever get married I'll still keep our money separate, I've seen too many sticky situations to ever completely combine finances. 

    And I completely agree with Shoes have him pay it off before saying I do, you may have to wait a while but it will be one less thing stressing out your marriage! 
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  • edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_sos-sticky-financial-situation-long-sorry?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:1005f950-ad1e-4ba8-a121-6d6f9752b76fPost:665dec4b-28b0-4224-a5d2-42eef75df5c8">SO's Sticky Financial Situation (long, so sorry)</a>:
    [QUOTE]  <strong>So do any of you have SO's who haven't been wise with their finances in the past? Has it ever given you pause to combine the funds?</strong> I feel like I'm playing some sort of "Rules" game when I say I don't want to emasculate him, but it's something that he cares about. He wants to be able to take care of his mom and me and our (future) family. I get it, but it sure makes him stubborn. Part of me just wants to pay the damn thing off! But that seems...unwise. And it's probably an insecurity on my part that I think if I'm too overpowering, if I push too hard and just pay for everything he will shut down. I love him, and I love this relationship, and I love us and I would have a terrible time if we were to separate because of this. We're not close to that, but I don't know how he's gonna feel 10 years down the line if he's felt that he hasn't contributed. I can see a lot of men easily being bothered by that. Having a "she doesn't need me, why am I here?" attitude.  Thoughts? Questions? Slams because this is so long? All welcome!  Holy crap this is long.
    Posted by DanieKA[/QUOTE]<div>
    </div><div>So you write a novel and then post and run? :)</div><div>
    </div><div>I have ghost of boyfriends past who I helped out... to the tune of $9000ish over the course of a year. That was the biggest mistake ever. He never could get his $hit together because of areers/child support/spending issues. When the relationship ended he promised he would one day pay me back. Fast forward 4 post break up: haven't seen a dime. I've long gotten over it and forgiven him, however I would never recommend someone lending him money.</div><div>
    </div><div>My suggestion: DON'T DO IT. Let him wear his big boy pants and take care of himself. It's hard to watch someone fall financially, but he has to learn to take care of the consequences of his shit*y decisions from his past. If you "help him out" you have only enabled his bad decision making and made him dependent on you. Neither of which are healthy for your relationship. All you can do is encourage him to get another job, or a better paying job right now. He can always get back to the job he loves, later when he has his $hit together.</div><div>
    </div><div>

    </div>
    www.nurseyk.weebly.com
  • DanieKADanieKA member
    Knottie Warrior 1000 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_sos-sticky-financial-situation-long-sorry?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:1005f950-ad1e-4ba8-a121-6d6f9752b76fPost:e10729f9-b117-458c-8bf7-ecce1b21c799">Re: SO's Sticky Financial Situation (long, so sorry)</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to SO's Sticky Financial Situation (long, so sorry) : So you write a novel and then post and run? :) I have ghost of boyfriends past who I helped out... to the tune of <strong>$9000ish</strong> over the course of a year. That was the biggest mistake ever. He never could get his $hit together because of areers/child support/spending issues. When the relationship ended he promised he would one day pay me back. Fast forward 4 post break up: haven't seen a dime. I've long gotten over it and forgiven him, however I would never recommend someone lending him money. My suggestion: DON'T DO IT. Let him wear his big boy pants and take care of himself. <strong>It's hard to watch someone fall financially, but he has to learn to take care of the consequences of his shit*y decisions from his past. If you "help him out" you have only enabled his bad decision making and made him dependent on you. Neither of which are healthy for your relationship</strong>. All you can do is encourage him to get another job, or a better paying job right now. He can always get back to the job he loves, later when he has his $hit together.
    Posted by NurseyK[/QUOTE]<div>
    </div><div>Wise advice. And 9 Grand! Holy moly! I definitely see where you are coming from. And I do think it's wise to wait for now before combining or paying anything for him. I'll just encourage him to pay whatever he can every month to chip away and encourage him to look for a better paying job in his field. It never hurts to send out a few resumes a week, right?</div><div>
    </div><div>Right now, I'm not impatient. But I'd be lying if I said I don't think about how this will affect an engagement. You know, 5 or 6 years is a long time to wait for him to pay down that debt. When I'm with him, day to day, I don't think about it as a hinderance. I have fun, live in the moment, etc.  When I sit down and think, okay obsess, it's like Yikes, we're pushing mid thirties at that point and I'd like to have a family and ideally not have to shell out 20 grand to do it via ART (Assisted Reproductive Technology) because we waited too long. And there may be issues I don't even know about yet! This is the point I start to wig out.

    </div>
  • lunarsongbirdlunarsongbird member
    2500 Comments Second Anniversary Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    Money, Money, Money. Sometimes I hate Money.

    SO is great with money- because his parents set him up that way. They've nearly paid for everything for him. And they gave him all sorts of sweet funds and money market accounts when he was a baby. I can't complain- because now his parents are paying for our move to Colorado. 

    However, I have the debt. I struggle with it. I barely keep my head above water- and some months I don't. Although as much as I struggle- I don't think I would want him to pay it off for me. Instead, he doesn't make me pay rent or other expenses- so I can focus on my debt. It's his way of helping me. If he just outright paid it off- I think I would struggle with feeling like I owed him for the rest of our lives together. I know that it's a silly thought, but sometimes the brain does silly things.

    So maybe that is an option- offer to pick up other expenses- to let him put more money towards the debt. Money mouth
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  • edited December 2011
    Everyone is right, his debt is your debt and creditors can come after you for the money even if he passes or you divorce. Also, his bad credit will bring down your credit. 

    Check out Financial Peace with Dave Ramsey. 

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  • DanieKADanieKA member
    Knottie Warrior 1000 Comments
    edited December 2011
    This issue is gonna take a while to figure out. Definitely something to work out before finances combine. I also had no idea his credit score could change mine. Yikes! This is a work in progress. 

    Thank you, Ladies! You are great!
  • edited December 2011
    I understand the BF with a lot of debt thing.  When BF and I started dating, he was living off of credit cards (ok, not that extreme but it scared me) he was a server who made just enough to cover rent, so food, bills, paying for lunch at school every day ALL went on credit.  He just didn't know about smart financial decisions.  He was amazed at the amount of money he saved when we would pack lunches together and he wouldn't be buying his lunch everyday.  It took months before he found a second job to be able to pay the bills.  I have seen him improve so much over these past 2.5 years with his money situation.  He still has about 7K CC debt and a ton of student loan debt, but he is working on it.

    One thing that really helped him was, he recently called all the CC and student loan companies and they are working with him so that he can get his debt paid off.  One of the CC gave him an insanely small interest rate and these past few months he has noticed a difference on them.   You should let your BF know that there are options out there for him that will help him make head-way on his debt.

    PM me if you would like more details about it, and also to bitch about the money thing when it bothers you.
  • DanieKADanieKA member
    Knottie Warrior 1000 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_sos-sticky-financial-situation-long-sorry?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:1005f950-ad1e-4ba8-a121-6d6f9752b76fPost:815ec3e8-1d75-4fc1-bb84-5497274a9244">Re: SO's Sticky Financial Situation (long, so sorry)</a>:
    [QUOTE]I understand the BF with a lot of debt thing.  When BF and I started dating, he was living off of credit cards (ok, not that extreme but it scared me) he was a server who made just enough to cover rent, so food, bills, paying for lunch at school every day ALL went on credit.  He just didn't know about smart financial decisions.  He was amazed at the amount of money he saved when we would pack lunches together and he wouldn't be buying his lunch everyday.  It took months before he found a second job to be able to pay the bills.  I have seen him improve so much over these past 2.5 years with his money situation.  He still has about 7K CC debt and a ton of student loan debt, but he is working on it. One thing that really helped him was, he recently called all the CC and student loan companies and they are working with him so that he can get his debt paid off.  One of the CC gave him an insanely small interest rate and these past few months he has noticed a difference on them.   You should let your BF know that there are options out there for him that will help him make head-way on his debt. PM me if you would like more details about it, and also to bitch about the money thing when it bothers you.
    Posted by amsybot[/QUOTE]<div>
    </div><div>Thanks amsy! I really appreciate this. I'll definitely PM when I want to vent. I'm hoping it gets better, but we'll see in the next few weeks. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

    </div>
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