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Curious article about the Twilight series. Domestic abuse themes. Another reaon HP>Twilight

So I found this article on NPR:
http://www.npr.org/2011/11/17/142248824/dawn-breaks-and-much-baroque-nonsense-ensues?ft=1&f=1008

And this quote really stuck out:
"Edward's and Jacob's stalker-like possessiveness and Bella's lack of agency are well-covered territory by now.

But when a saga popular with pre-adolescent girls peaks romantically on a night that leaves the heroine to wake up covered with bruises in the shape of her husband's hands — and when that heroine then spends the morning explaining to her husband that she's incredibly happy even though he injured her, and that it's not his fault because she understands he couldn't help it in light of the depth of his passion — that's profoundly irresponsible."

 

 I've never actually seen the movies or read the books so maybe this review is out of line, but wow. If this review is really telling it how it is I can't believe this hasn't been mentioned before.

 

Thoughts?

White Knot

Re: Curious article about the Twilight series. Domestic abuse themes. Another reaon HP>Twilight

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    caitlin.cavecaitlin.cave member
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    I haven't read the books (I have seen the movies), but I very much dislike Twilight for this reason.  I can go on for hours about how Edward must have memorized The Abusive Boyfriend's Handbook and how it's disgusting that a 100+ year old man is interested in a teenage girl, but as NPR said, it's been addressed multiple times.
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    thejucheideathejucheidea member
    First Anniversary First Answer 5 Love Its Name Dropper
    edited December 2011
    From reading the book, I can tell you, yes, that is what happened. I haven't seen the movie yet, but I'm probably gonna pirate it and watch it with my best friend in Washington via Skype. We're going to lose. our. minds.

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    edited December 2011
    Um yes. I've read all the books and while I don't remember all the details I do remember thinking even in the first book- "wtf Bella is pathetic and this is NOT ok". I was still OBSESSED with the books though and was even mildly depressed when I finished the last one. I haven't seen any movies except the first one though I think...I'll try to watch them online.
    Sorry if this doesn't make sense, I'm KUI.
     




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    leia1979leia1979 member
    5 Love Its First Anniversary Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    I haven't seen any of the movies, but in my opinion, the fourth book is pretty darned ridiculous. I guess I never viewed the particular scene as abuse, but in general, I always wanted Bella to become an actual three-dimensional character and grow a freaking backbone. Oh, and maybe go to college instead of getting married at 17.
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    Elle1036Elle1036 member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    We've talked a little about this before, and pretty much everyone around here knows my thoughts on the subject. That said, I think it's better if we try not to keep drudging this topic up. There are several regs around here who are Twilight fans and these types of threads alienate that group. It got kind of, uh, unpleasant last time and I don't want that to keep happening.
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    lennonkdclennonkdc member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its First Answer First Comment
    edited December 2011
    I have read the books, and I agree with the author of the article. The first three books were just angst ridden teenage musing with a heavy dose of fudamentlaist Christian/ Mormon dogma subtext. The last book is just insane. The level of madness, abuse, hinted at pepophila and sado masochism levels that of an Anne Rice novel, but it geared toward young girls...and at least Bella waits till she is married. 

    I also think that if you want to compare and contrast HP and Twilight, the biggest difference is that we still think young men can save the world, but young woman should be angst ridden and submissive to the men who love them. (And yes I know that Hermonie is a strong role model, but she is constantly mocked for being a know it all and I noticed that the books aren't titled after her.) 



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    Simply FatedSimply Fated member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its First Answer Name Dropper
    edited December 2011
    For the record... she liked those bruises. I mean, not the bruises themselves, but she wasn't complaining about what led to them. Some girls like it rough. *shrugs* I've read all the books and seen all the movies. There isn't an argument against the books I haven't heard lol.
    image
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    heyimbrenheyimbren member
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_curious-article-twilight-series-domestic-abuse-themes-another-reaon-hptwilight?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:368124ef-9303-4f1c-8555-22380892b146Post:a20177d9-1848-49ee-9fea-eb106155da41">Curious article about the Twilight series. Domestic abuse themes. Another reaon HP>Twilight</a>:
    [QUOTE]So I found this article on NPR: <a href="http://www.npr.org/2011/11/17/142248824/dawn-breaks-and-much-baroque-nonsense-ensues?ft=1&f=1008" rel="nofollow">http://www.npr.org/2011/11/17/142248824/dawn-breaks-and-much-baroque-nonsense-ensues?ft=1&f=1008</a> And this quote really stuck out: "Edward's and Jacob's stalker-like possessiveness and Bella's lack of agency are well-covered territory by now. But when a saga popular with pre-adolescent girls peaks romantically on a night that leaves the heroine to wake up covered with bruises in the shape of her husband's hands — and when that heroine then spends the morning explaining to her husband that she's incredibly happy even though he injured her, and that it's not his fault because she understands he couldn't help it in light of the depth of his passion — that's profoundly irresponsible."    I've never actually seen the movies or read the books so maybe this review is out of line, but wow. <strong>If this review is really telling it how it is I can't believe this hasn't been mentioned before</strong>.   Thoughts?
    Posted by alanna91[/QUOTE]

    Actually, it has been brought up before. Many, many times. Not just on here, but I mean articles in general.

    And I like what Elle said. So just cosign my name to that post of hers.
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    alanna91alanna91 member
    First Comment
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_curious-article-twilight-series-domestic-abuse-themes-another-reaon-hptwilight?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:368124ef-9303-4f1c-8555-22380892b146Post:a7698907-6288-4ec2-a89a-812f2c1929b1">Re: Curious article about the Twilight series. Domestic abuse themes. Another reaon HP>Twilight</a>:
    [QUOTE] I also think that if you want to compare and contrast HP and Twilight, the biggest difference is that <strong>we still think young men can save the world, but young woman should be angst ridden and submissive to the men who love them.</strong> (And yes I know that Hermonie is a strong role model, but she is constantly mocked for being a know it all and I noticed that the books aren't titled after her.) 
    Posted by lennonkdc[/QUOTE]

    Good point, I never saw HP like that actually.
    I wonder if young children actually pick up on little things like that, though. We're all adults here and we're viewing it from a different perspective. I'm sure that young children can go into an HP or Twilight movie and be mesmerized by the special effects or "romantic" story line and not make any connections between gender roles and relationship issues. I read my first HP book at age 8 and I wouldn't say that it influenced me at all in terms of how I should act as a female in a "mans world".

    Elle, I didn't mean to offend anyone with the title or body but I realize how it could have come across as offensive. Thanks for pointing that out.

    ETA: Bren, had I been aware of that I wouldn't have made this post or that statement.
    White Knot
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    Elle1036Elle1036 member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    Lennon - I don't think I understand the point you're trying to make about Hermione. Can you word it differently? Alanna - I know you didn't mean any offense or intend to rehash an old topic. I just posted what I did to discourage others from taking the conversation further.
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    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_curious-article-twilight-series-domestic-abuse-themes-another-reaon-hptwilight?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:368124ef-9303-4f1c-8555-22380892b146Post:85d9b62f-57cd-4921-89dd-10b33bf53145">Re: Curious article about the Twilight series. Domestic abuse themes. Another reaon HP>Twilight</a>:
    [QUOTE]We've talked a little about this before, and pretty much everyone around here knows my thoughts on the subject. That said, I think it's better if we try not to keep drudging this topic up. There are several regs around here who are Twilight fans and these types of threads alienate that group. It got kind of, uh, unpleasant last time and I don't want that to keep happening.
    Posted by Elle1036[/QUOTE]

    This.
    5/27/12
    image
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    bethsmilesbethsmiles member
    First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its
    edited December 2011
    It's definitely a problem that many people have with the books. It's difficult to deny that the relationships in the books aren't a very good model for what a healthy relationship should be. BUT that doesn't mean that people shouldn't enjoy reading the books or seeing the movies. As long as it is recognized that the relationship between the characters isn't something that should be emulated there is really no harm in enjoying what was meant to be a fun and engaging story.

    I've read all the books and seen the movies, they are fun. It doesn't mean I'm going to model my life after them.


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    lennonkdclennonkdc member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its First Answer First Comment
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_curious-article-twilight-series-domestic-abuse-themes-another-reaon-hptwilight?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:368124ef-9303-4f1c-8555-22380892b146Post:8f552519-8583-4d06-9154-ab36bf273188">Re: Curious article about the Twilight series. Domestic abuse themes. Another reaon HP>Twilight</a>:
    [QUOTE]It's definitely a problem that many people have with the books. <strong>It's difficult to deny that the relationships in the books aren't a very good model for what a healthy relationship should be. BUT that doesn't mean that people shouldn't enjoy reading the books or seeing the movies.</strong> As long as it is recognized that the relationship between the characters isn't something that should be emulated there is really no harm in enjoying what was meant to be a fun and engaging story. I've read all the books and seen the movies, they are fun. It doesn't mean I'm going to model my life after them.
    Posted by bethsmiles[/QUOTE]

    <div>I agree with this. I read the books, I enjoyed them (to a point) and I would never discourage my daughter from reading them. They are a good way to discuss health v. unhealthy relationships. What worries me is that there are many young girls who don't have some one to discuss this with, thats all.</div><div>
    </div><div>And Elle, my point about Hermoine is that for as strong a female character as she is, she's still an 'outcast' b/c she is smart, and she's not the lead character. I would love for there to be a series like HP where the main character is a young woman like Hermoine. </div>



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    edited December 2011
    I have read all of the books and seen all of the movies multiple times. I feel like people are now just trying to come up with creative ideas about why they don't like the books. I loved them and I'm not a teenage girl. Plenty of people actually like them. 

    As far as the domestic abuse theme goes, I think it's ridiculous. In the book, Edward mentions to Bella multiple times that trying to have sex with her will be dangerous to her. She, however doesn't care because she loves him and wants to have this human experience with him before she turns into a vampire. He is so strong that when they have sex, he destroys the bed frame and the bed itself while causing Bella to have bruises. He didn't do any harm to her on purpose, she knew the outcome was possible and was prepared for it. I don't think it is unreasonable to believe this could be the outcome. 

    Why was Bella okay with it? Because she knew that something like that might happen and he wasn't at fault because he was trying his hardest not to hurt her. I don't think there is anything wrong with this. 
    image
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    Elle1036Elle1036 member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_curious-article-twilight-series-domestic-abuse-themes-another-reaon-hptwilight?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:368124ef-9303-4f1c-8555-22380892b146Post:f4fd0f5e-6879-4080-8f06-adc134f6152b">Re: Curious article about the Twilight series. Domestic abuse themes. Another reaon HP>Twilight</a>:
    [QUOTE]I have read all of the books and seen all of the movies multiple times. I feel like people are now just trying to come up with creative ideas about why they don't like the books. I loved them and I'm not a teenage girl. Plenty of people actually like them.  As far as the domestic abuse theme goes, I think it's ridiculous. In the book, Edward mentions to Bella multiple times that trying to have sex with her will be dangerous to her. She, however doesn't care because she loves him and wants to have this human experience with him before she turns into a vampire. He is so strong that when they have sex, he destroys the bed frame and the bed itself while causing Bella to have bruises. He didn't do any harm to her on purpose, she knew the outcome was possible and was prepared for it. I don't think it is unreasonable to believe this could be the outcome.  Why was Bella okay with it? Because she knew that something like that might happen and he wasn't at fault because he was trying his hardest not to hurt her. I don't think there is anything wrong with this. 
    Posted by mymissingpuzzlepiece[/QUOTE]


    Gee... Thanks for the plot synopsis.

    I just have too much to say. I really need to stay away from these discussions, another reason I'm annoyed to see it brought up again.

    But seriously, Puzzle, if you can't see what's wrong with the story you just summarized, then you're making the point that the writer of that article was making.

    And now I'm going to stop being a hypocrite and genuinely drop this topic.
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    KatyRoseMKatyRoseM member
    First Anniversary First Comment
    edited December 2011
    Say Bella was just into rough sex, which is possible from the way its written, is it wrong then? 

    That being said there is a lot that is unhealthy about their relationship, but she found the sex pleasurable, so maybe she likes it like that.
    image
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    kellyt89kellyt89 member
    First Anniversary First Comment
    edited December 2011
    I haven't read the books or seen the movies - I love fantasy books for the most part but I've never been into vampires, so I can't really intelligently comment on anything.

    This is sort of an aside, but there are some good fantasy novels that do have a strong female main character. Definitely not as many as male driven fantasy books, but there are some good ones out there. Also, I think Hermione is pretty awesome and Ginny is pretty badass too in the later books. :)
    And if the stormy weather came...I'd just kiss you in the rain... Daisypath Anniversary tickers image
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