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Unsatisyfing update on my friend situation

For anyone who doesn't remember or was simply wise enough not to worry about more Elle-drama, this is in reference to this thread:

http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_would-feel-long

So last weekend, I made the 5-hour drive to Louisiana to visit my hometown.  "A" came with me; it's her hometown, too, after all.  We've been friends for over 10 years now...

Anyway, I hadn't planned on bringing up the issue this weekend.  I was kind of still processing everything.  The wedding was a week before and some of the pictures had appeared on facebook, and seeing her standing next to him hurt more than I thought it would, so I was going to let the dust settle first.  I was also still hoping she would come around and just tell me herself, because it's the deceit that hurts the most.  Well, my plan to keep my mouth shut didn't exactly work out.

Friday night, we were out playing pool with another friend, and it came out that I knew everything.  I didn't exactly tell her in the best possible way, and I know that my stupid way of bringing it up put her right on the defensive.  Anyway, her response was "Yeah, I showed up and stood there.  So what?"  She actually said "so what?"  I was so stunned I didn't have a response.

At that point, I got pulled away by my other friend and the conversation pretty much stopped.  It didn't get brought up again all weekend, but things stayed tense.  It didn't help that A was sucking up hard core.  She kept trying to buy me things.  I mentioned at Walmart that I wanted to buy "Bridesmaids" on DVD, and it was in her hand before I could blink.  (I made her put it pack).  A dozen donuts from our favorite local bakery?  She picked up the tab.  I even found a pair of not-at-all-cheap earrings that I thought I might want for my wedding, and she tried to buy those.  Seriously?

Anyway, that's pretty much it.  (I told you this was unsatisfying).  It was awkward all weekend, and add in the humdinger of a fight with my mom on Sunday morning, and I'm thoroughly emotionally spent.

Re: Unsatisyfing update on my friend situation

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    edited December 2011
    Argh. You'd think she could have at least apologized for any discomfort you might have had! Even if she feels like she's in the right, if she KNOWS that this will have a negative effect on you, then she should at least acknowledge that verbally. Buying stuff doesn't make any of that easier.

    -hug- I would be frustrated too, if I were in your shoes.

    Do you think she'll say anything about this in the future, or are you going to have to sit her down and explain this to her?
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    edited December 2011
    You mean she never acknowledged your hurt feelings? She just threw them out the window like it was no-big-deal? I'd be pissed, too. 

    Perhaps take some time from her.... and bring it up again in a month.
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    edited December 2011
    (hugs) 

    I think in some ways this says more than something 'satisfying.'  So you didn't handle it in the best way?  Whatever.  I am not sure that she wouldn't have been defensive even if you had handled it more delicately. 

    What do you want out of the friendship?  Is it a friendship you want to continue? 


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    Elle1036Elle1036 member
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    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_unsatisyfing-update-friend-situation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:38e4101c-49bf-4570-85a3-274c068accf4Post:e2594bc6-c6fe-4150-aae9-982b46c646f3">Re: Unsatisyfing update on my friend situation</a>:
    [QUOTE]Argh. You'd think she could have at least apologized for any discomfort you might have had! <strong>Even if she feels like she's in the right, if she KNOWS that this will have a negative effect on you, then she should at least acknowledge that verbally. </strong>Buying stuff doesn't make any of that easier. -hug- I would be frustrated too, if I were in your shoes. Do you think she'll say anything about this in the future, or are you going to have to sit her down and explain this to her?
    Posted by BookButterfly[/QUOTE]

    This is what I think, too.  I feel like it's really unfair to say "so what?" about something you've been hiding for months, because the simple fact that you hid shows that it's a bigger issue than that.

    I'm not sure what my next step is going to be.  I know I plan on writing her a letter, but I probably won't ever give it to her.  That's really just for me, so I can get all my feelings about this down on paper and hopefully gain some clarity.  Then I'll go from there.
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    motoLynmotoLyn member
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    edited December 2011
    I'm sorry to hear that it came out in a weird way.  I think on some level she acknowledged how mishandled this all went but trying to buy you things to make it up to you.  Which isn't the right way of doing this at all.  Elle I think at this point it is time to come clean with her about how you feel and just be willing to walk away if things don't pan out positive.  You can't keep carrying around these feelings with you.  I really hope that you get another chance soon to sit and talk to your friend.
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    Elle1036Elle1036 member
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    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_unsatisyfing-update-friend-situation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:38e4101c-49bf-4570-85a3-274c068accf4Post:3690704e-8f09-4fb7-9de8-6d449163a602">Re: Unsatisyfing update on my friend situation</a>:
    [QUOTE]What do you want out of the friendship?  Is it a friendship you want to continue? 
    Posted by TheMutleys[/QUOTE]

    I'm really not sure.  I did a lot of thinking about that this weekend.  We have a lot of fun together and a lot of history, and I don't want to give that up.  But the simple fact is that I don't know if I'll ever get over feeling hurt by this.  I don't know if there's anything she could do at this point to make it up to me.  Perhaps that's just one of my character flaws, but that's not really the point anyway.
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    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_unsatisyfing-update-friend-situation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:38e4101c-49bf-4570-85a3-274c068accf4Post:ce1377d6-4b5d-4fc7-a4cd-933eaaa84ad9">Re: Unsatisyfing update on my friend situation</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Unsatisyfing update on my friend situation : I'm really not sure.  I did a lot of thinking about that this weekend.  We have a lot of fun together and a lot of history, and I don't want to give that up.  But the simple fact is that I don't know if I'll ever get over feeling hurt by this.  I don't know if there's anything she could do at this point to make it up to me.  Perhaps that's just one of my character flaws, but that's not really the point anyway.
    Posted by Elle1036[/QUOTE]

    Honestly, I am at a point in my life where I won't keep someone around for fun or history.  I want true friends and that is it.  I don't have time for people who do not value our friendship in the same way that I do.  I also don't have time for people who take advantage of our history in order to be takers.  I don't have time for people who cannot be honest with me, even if the truth could hurt me. 

    I don't think that is a character flaw.  Maybe I am biased, since I am not a big forgiver.  LOL.  Well, I can forgive but I do not forget and that makes it difficult for me to keep people in my life who have hurt me greatly.   
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    edited December 2011
    I also wanted to add that it just sucks when someone you thought you could count on lets you down in this way. 
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    lennonkdclennonkdc member
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    edited December 2011
    Ok, I'm going to be really unpopular for what I am about to say, but so be it.
    Elle- what bothers you most, the fact A hid being in J's wedding from you, or the fact that A was in J's wedding?
    If its the subterfuge then I can understand that, and you need to talk that out with her. I think her spending spree last weekend might have been her way of showing she was sorry. Accept that maybe she hid it from you because she was afraid you would react this way, and she was trying to spare your feelings.
    If its the fact that A was in J's wedding, the you have to let that go. Why does it matter that she is friends with him? You have a wonderful life with FI. J has a wonderful life with his W. In the end you don't get to control who your friends arefriends with. 
    I had a similar situation in college with my Ex FI, it was a bad messy break up, and I lost a lot of friends. My two roommates in college and a few HS stayed friends with both of us to this day. As you get older you realize how important friend 'who knew you when' are.  If A's only transgression is that she's close with J, then you need to think long and hard about why that bothers you. Because if A really is a good friend, you don't want to lose her over this. Trust me, in 10 years, it really not going to matter.



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    csousa1csousa1 member
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    edited December 2011
    Hugs Elle. I'm sorry you are dealing with this.

    You know my take on the whole wedding involvement...that if she is not privvy to all the ways that you were mistreated by this guy, then she may see no reason not to stay friends with both of you. The fact that she hid it from you could have been a sneaky, deceitful thing, or could just have been that she didn't think telling you was necessary.

    However, the fact that she got so defensive so fast and then tried to suck up cleary says that she had guilt about it - it makes me feel like the reason she hid it from you was out of cowardice. She should have just come to you like an adult at the time and said FYI I will be in his wedding. Even if she said it to you in a way that was not opening it up for debate, that still would have been more mature than the route she chose to handle it.

    I'm sorry you had such a rough weekend. Being emotionally drained is just rotten. If you need to vent about her or the fight with your mom, we are here!
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    cu97tigercu97tiger member
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    edited December 2011
    You aren't alone Lennon. Elle- I totally get why you're upset, but I'm thinking that A may have just not mentioned it because she didn't think you would care to hear about your ex-BF's wedding plans. If I remember correctly, there were some things about the breakup that you never told her, so I think you should just tell her that you were hurt that she kept that from you, and leave it at that. Whether you all continue your friendship should probably be based on some other factors besides this one incident.
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    csousa1csousa1 member
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    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_unsatisyfing-update-friend-situation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:38e4101c-49bf-4570-85a3-274c068accf4Post:ce1377d6-4b5d-4fc7-a4cd-933eaaa84ad9">Re: Unsatisyfing update on my friend situation</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Unsatisyfing update on my friend situation : I'm really not sure.  I did a lot of thinking about that this weekend.  We have a lot of fun together and a lot of history, and I don't want to give that up.  But the simple fact is that I don't know if I'll ever get over feeling hurt by this.  I don't know if there's anything she could do at this point to make it up to me.  Perhaps that's just one of my character flaws, but that's not really the point anyway.
    Posted by Elle1036[/QUOTE]

    I am a BIG forgiver, one that has gone too far the other way and let things slide with friends that I probably shouldn't have. Two of the most important people in my life (my sister and my BF) are the opposite. They have no problem letting a person go if they see no value in the relationship.

    At this point in my life, I view knowing what you can and cannot accept in your life and acting accordingly as a strength, not a character flaw. I have tried to take a page out of their books and learn to be more clear on what I demand from a relationship, of any kind, and to cut it loose if it just is not working for me. I think that there certainly can be a happy medium, but if you are able to look at this friendship for what it is and not hang on to something that once was, then I think that is far from a character flaw.
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    Elle1036Elle1036 member
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    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_unsatisyfing-update-friend-situation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:38e4101c-49bf-4570-85a3-274c068accf4Post:5ce7f258-a5f0-4d98-b06e-e44bc756c960">Re: Unsatisyfing update on my friend situation</a>:
    [QUOTE]Ok, I'm going to be really unpopular for what I am about to say, but so be it.<strong> Elle- what bothers you most, the fact A hid being in J's wedding from you, or the fact that A was in J's wedding?</strong> If its the subterfuge then I can understand that, and you need to talk that out with her. I think her spending spree last weekend might have been her way of showing she was sorry. Accept that maybe she hid it from you because she was afraid you would react this way, and she was trying to spare your feelings. If its the fact that A was in J's wedding, the you have to let that go. Why does it matter that she is friends with him? You have a wonderful life with FI. J has a wonderful life with his W. In the end you don't get to control who your friends arefriends with.  I had a similar situation in college with my Ex FI, it was a bad messy break up, and I lost a lot of friends. My two roommates in college and a few HS stayed friends with both of us to this day. As you get older you realize how important friend 'who knew you when' are.  If A's only transgression is that she's close with J, then you need to think long and hard about why that bothers you. Because if A really is a good friend, you don't want to lose her over this. Trust me, in 10 years, it really not going to matter.
    Posted by lennonkdc[/QUOTE]

    Thanks for your perpsective, Lennon.

    Mostly, it's the fact that she hid it.  I've been saying that all along and I'm sticking to it.

    However, I'm not going to lie and say that her friendship with him doesn't bother me.  It does, but it's something I've been successfully dealing with for years now.  I've always known that they were friends and I kept it in appropriate perspective.

    The more I think about it, though, I can't help but think that maybe I should have started distancing myself from her a long time ago.  I was talking to another friend about this, and I said something about how there's no way I would have stayed friends with somebody who hurt her like J hurt me, but that it didn't matter because "A and I are just different people with different personalities" or something like that, and my friend said "Well, yeah, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the same loyalty from your friends that you would show to them."  And I think she's right.  That has really stuck in my brain.
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    lennonkdclennonkdc member
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    edited December 2011
    Thanks Tiger, I was afraid I was the only one who saw it that way.

    Elle- I truly do understand where you are coming from, and why it hurts. 

    I guess what I am trying to say, is that if you deside not to be friends with A any more, that's one more casualty of the break up, in a way. I understand what you mean about loyalty, but A's a person, not a lab. She can be a loyal friend to you by being honest (which she was not) and you can be a loyal friend by calmly explaining to her why her hiding things from you hurt, and why her friendship with J hurts.  You even said in your original post that A saw the break up from a different perspective, she just might not 'get' why this bugs you. Please sit down and chat with her. If, after that you decided that you can't continue to be friends, thats fine. 




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    Elle1036Elle1036 member
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    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_unsatisyfing-update-friend-situation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:38e4101c-49bf-4570-85a3-274c068accf4Post:d80b39a3-1267-4235-858c-f4f27a1541e3">Re: Unsatisyfing update on my friend situation</a>:
    [QUOTE]Thanks Tiger, I was afraid I was the only one who saw it that way. Elle- I truly do understand where you are coming from, and why it hurts.  I guess what I am trying to say, is that if you deside not to be friends with A any more, that's one more casualty of the break up, in a way. I understand what you mean about loyalty, but A's a person, not a lab. She can be a loyal friend to you by being honest (which she was not) and you can be a loyal friend by calmly explaining to her why her hiding things from you hurt, and why her friendship with J hurts.  You even said in your original post that A saw the break up from a different perspective, <strong>she just might not 'get' why this bugs you</strong>. Please sit down and chat with her. If, after that you decided that you can't continue to be friends, thats fine. 
    Posted by lennonkdc[/QUOTE]

    The "person, not a lab" line made me laugh.

    As far as the A just not getting it... yeah, I keep telling myself that, too, but it comes back to her hiding it again.  I haven't yet found a satisfactory explanation for <em>why</em> she would hide it if she didn't <em>know</em> that I would be upset, and knowing I would be upset is just one more reason for her to tell me early enough that I hear about it from her and not through the internet.

    I just keep going in circles...
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    edited December 2011
    Hugs, Elle. I'm sorry you're dealing with this. Here's my perspective, FWIW (not much, likely):

    "Yeah, I showed up and stood there.  So what?"
    I wasn't there so don't know what her expression/tone was when she said this, but maybe she was just trying to downplay the importance to her so that you wouldn't be upset? I'm not saying she's in the right or that saying "so what?" wasn't a shiitty move, but maybe she was prioritizing your feelings. Even if she didn't go about it the right way, the good intention may have been there, and that's worth something, IMO.

    I feel kind of the same way about her sucking up all weekend. Again, definitely not the best way to go about making it up to you/asking for forgiveness, but I think it shows that your friendship is still important to her.

    This is going to sound harsh (love you, Elle!), but I think you both need to grow a pair and have the difficult conversation about your friendship. You need to be brutally honest with her about how you feel and that her deceit was the most hurtful to you, and she needs to be honest with you about why she didn't tell you and acknowledge that you were hurt (and hopefully apologize).

    All that said, I agree with PP that sometimes you just need to get out of a friendship that's not working anymore. But if there's anything left to salvage in your relationship with her, I think you both owe it to each other to try. It just seems like communication has totally gotten lost in this equation...

    I really hope that everything works out for the best. You deserve to be happy and have loyal, great friends!
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    Elle1036Elle1036 member
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    edited December 2011
    Sun:  Yes.  You have no idea how much it would help.

    Anne:  You're absolutely right and I do need to "grow a pair".  Thanks!
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    ravenrayravenray member
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    edited December 2011

    *hugs*

    I had a nice reply all typed out and then my computer shut down.

    I feel like a conversation about how she hurt you is what I would do.  This I feel would either make or break the relationship, and if you are reconsidering it maybe this is what you need?  IDK just my thoughts!  Love you! 

    "Love is not affectionate feeling, but a steady wish for the loved person's ultimate good as far as it can be obtained"-C.S. Lewis

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    desertsundesertsun member
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    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_unsatisyfing-update-friend-situation?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:38e4101c-49bf-4570-85a3-274c068accf4Post:d80b39a3-1267-4235-858c-f4f27a1541e3">Re: Unsatisyfing update on my friend situation</a>:
    [QUOTE]Thanks Tiger, I was afraid I was the only one who saw it that way. Elle- I truly do understand where you are coming from, and why it hurts.  I guess what I am trying to say, is that if you deside not to be friends with A any more, that's one more casualty of the break up, in a way. I understand what you mean about loyalty, but A's a person, not a lab. She can be a loyal friend to you by being honest (which she was not) and you can be a loyal friend by calmly explaining to her why her hiding things from you hurt, and why her friendship with J hurts.  You even said in your original post that A saw the break up from a different perspective, she just might not 'get' why this bugs you. Please sit down and chat with her. If, after that you decided that you can't continue to be friends, thats fine. 
    Posted by lennonkdc[/QUOTE]

    Not everyone naturally has the same values and expectations. A could have thought she was doing the right thing by not saying anything, and downplaying it when asked. You are not her; you cannot assume you know the thoughts in her head.

    I think this just boils down to being clear about your expectations with your friends.

    I would try to have a conversation about it from a perspective of going forward. "Hey A, I know you might have been trying to spare my feelings, but actually, I was hurt b/c i felt like you weren't open and honest with me. In the future, just so you know, I'd rather we be able to be completely open and honest with each other. We've been friends a long time, and I trust that when you say something that might be hurtful, you do it with the best intentions." And then just see what she says. But go into the conversation with a clear idea of what you want your friendship with her to be like in the future.

    Personally, after being friends so long, I would say that it's worth it to try to stay friends, even if you're not as close as you once were. But then, I'm not hugely into burning bridges. :)

    HTH and sorry you've been going through this!

    Edited for grammar.
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