Oh the Supreme Court...

loves2shop4shoes

So, if you're following the news closely, you'll know that the Supreme Court ruled for the Westborough Baptist Church today.  The 8-1 ruling stated that their actions of picketing dead soldiers' funerals was protected by their 1st Amendment rights of Freedom of Speech.

Thoughts?

marleylikeair

My thoughts are that just because it is legal doesn't mean it's right.

heyimbren

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_oh-supreme-court?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:3e3ce648-caf3-4742-a5e3-f0688b4fecd1Post:12ed8598-d6e8-4594-a828-b97670bebc08">Re: Oh the Supreme Court...</a>:
[QUOTE]My thoughts are that just because it is legal doesn't mean it's right.
Posted by marleylikeair[/QUOTE]

So true.

Wrkn925

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_oh-supreme-court?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:3e3ce648-caf3-4742-a5e3-f0688b4fecd1Post:12ed8598-d6e8-4594-a828-b97670bebc08">Re: Oh the Supreme Court...</a>:
[QUOTE]My thoughts are that just because it is legal doesn't mean it's right.
Posted by marleylikeair[/QUOTE]

Yup, but nobody can stop them.

I just hope that groups like the Freedom Riders continue to grow and protect families from them.

marleylikeair

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_oh-supreme-court?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:3e3ce648-caf3-4742-a5e3-f0688b4fecd1Post:7e0fbce4-3bef-491d-b1be-1133326939b7">Re: Oh the Supreme Court...</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Oh the Supreme Court... : Yup, but nobody can stop them. I just hope that groups like the Freedom Riders continue to grow and protect families from them.
Posted by Wrkn925[/QUOTE]

Are you talking about the angel wings people? That was awesome.

alanna91

Sure they have Freedom of Speech, but aren't they violating the constitution because of disorderly conduct?

DanieKA

From a legal standpoint, I am not in the least bit surprised. I don't think anyone who has followed this case or who has read up on the laws and precedence should be. 

From a personal and moral standpoint, it's sad. Cases like this always make me re-evaluate my ardent defense of the term "I may not like what you say, but I'll defend to the death your* right to say it." In the end I still believe in this principle. But people like this make it awfully hard to. 

* I edited my horrible spelling b/c it's driving me nuts!

heyimbren

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_oh-supreme-court?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:3e3ce648-caf3-4742-a5e3-f0688b4fecd1Post:21730666-c549-4332-8594-10a99ffdaefa">Re: Oh the Supreme Court...</a>:
[QUOTE]Sure they have Freedom of Speech, but aren't they violating the constitution because of disorderly conduct?
Posted by alanna91[/QUOTE]

Apparently not, according to the Supreme Court? But that's based off solely what I've read, and that doesn't include their actual judgment.

loves2shop4shoes

There's nothing about "disorderly conduct" in the Constitution.  "Disorderly conduct" is a state law issue, not a federal issue.

DanieKA

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_oh-supreme-court?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:3e3ce648-caf3-4742-a5e3-f0688b4fecd1Post:21730666-c549-4332-8594-10a99ffdaefa">Re: Oh the Supreme Court...</a>:
[QUOTE]Sure they have Freedom of Speech, but aren't they violating the constitution because of disorderly conduct?
Posted by alanna91[/QUOTE]

<div>Disorderly conduct isn't a constitutional violation. It may be a violation of state law or a city ordinance, depending on the behavior, but that wouldn't have been at issue before the S.Ct.</div><div>
</div><div> </div>

calindi

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_oh-supreme-court?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:3e3ce648-caf3-4742-a5e3-f0688b4fecd1Post:0a27f562-4d8f-4dd5-841d-65bf95a28928">Re: Oh the Supreme Court...</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Oh the Supreme Court... : Are you talking about the angel wings people? That was awesome.
Posted by marleylikeair[/QUOTE]

Freedom Riders brought their motorcycles to rev them to block out the noise of the protestors.  I think I'd prefer the angel wings people singing or humming instead!  I hate the sound of motorcycles, they give me an instant headache.

I was really disappointed to hear that ruling, but it wasn't unexpected.  BF had the lead counsel for the plaintiff down to his school to discuss the case and its merits, and it was awful to hear what devious lengths the WBC will go to in order to inflict pain on families who are already suffering.  They do all this because it gets them publicity. Problem is, it's a family, and two of the daughters went to law school and represent the family church.  They make a real circus out of a courtroom, stalling the process and bringing up ridiculous objections that get overturned immediately.

I want to seriously hurt those people for all the pain they've inflicted.  But at the least, I want everyone to stop reporting on them to stop giving them the media coverage and publicity they want so badly, and for wonderfully kind souls like Freedom Riders and the Angel Wings group to keep doing what they're doing.

alanna91

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_oh-supreme-court?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:3e3ce648-caf3-4742-a5e3-f0688b4fecd1Post:81f0a339-ffa8-4c5d-836e-7ff80c7f691a">Re: Oh the Supreme Court...</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Oh the Supreme Court... : Apparently not, according to the Supreme Court? But that's based off solely what I've read, and that doesn't include their actual judgment.
Posted by heyimbren[/QUOTE]

Yea, I'm thinking now that even though they're acting out of line, they're not doing so in a rowdy or disorderly way.
But, they're not going to win against the people they're picketing. Especially for a soldier's funeral; there's going to be a lot more people than just the soldier's family that will prevent the WBC from getting close enough to bother and disrespect them.

@DanieKa and loves2shop: Gotcha. I didn't mean to confuse the two.

jeanacorina

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_oh-supreme-court?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:3e3ce648-caf3-4742-a5e3-f0688b4fecd1Post:12ed8598-d6e8-4594-a828-b97670bebc08">Re: Oh the Supreme Court...</a>:
[QUOTE]My thoughts are that just because it is legal doesn't mean it's right.
Posted by marleylikeair[/QUOTE]

This.

I just heard about it in Media Law. I need to look it up and think about it before I really form an opinon beyond the above, though.

GreenPepperBurger

Disgusting. I'm so disappointed.

sparkles88

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_oh-supreme-court?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:3e3ce648-caf3-4742-a5e3-f0688b4fecd1Post:a664a3f4-aa61-4efe-bb22-5edd73035592">Re: Oh the Supreme Court...</a>:
[QUOTE]From a legal standpoint, I am not in the least bit surprised. I don't think anyone who has followed this case or who has read up on the laws and precedence should be.  From a personal and moral standpoint, it's sad. Cases like this always make me re-evaluate my ardent defense of the term "I may not like what you say, but I'll defend to the death you're right to say it." In the end I still believe in this principle. But people like this make it awfully hard to. 
Posted by DanieKA[/QUOTE]


I think that pretty much sums up my opinion on it as well.

Simply Fated

I'm not surprised because, yeah, it sucks but they are allowed to gather.

Luckily, they can be prevented by state, county and local laws. I know some places are trying to make it illegal to gather near funerals/burial grounds and in some places police are willing to gather and create a barrier around the area so even if they do show up, they can't get too close. I even heard of one place trying to push through sound ordinance laws so if they show up, they can't be too loud or something lol.

[Deleted User]

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_oh-supreme-court?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:3e3ce648-caf3-4742-a5e3-f0688b4fecd1Post:12ed8598-d6e8-4594-a828-b97670bebc08">Re: Oh the Supreme Court...</a>:
[QUOTE]My thoughts are that just because it is legal doesn't mean it's right.
Posted by marleylikeair[/QUOTE]

This.

hetshup

I'm actually proud of the court for up holding the decision. Let me caveat that with, I think that church is horrible, and I hope they burn in a fiery hell. But I'm proud that the court looked past the pain inflicted and upheld our laws. Now, this doesn't have to be a precedent for something more heinous in the future.

I am not, however, above thinking that someone should start a riot at all their protests. It's gotta be PEACEFUL assembly, right?

bethsmiles

I agree with Hetshup, if  I expect my rights to be upheld I have to deal with the fact people I disagree with have those same rights.

kayely88

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_oh-supreme-court?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:3e3ce648-caf3-4742-a5e3-f0688b4fecd1Post:12ed8598-d6e8-4594-a828-b97670bebc08">Re: Oh the Supreme Court...</a>:
[QUOTE]My thoughts are that just because it is legal doesn't mean it's right.
Posted by marleylikeair[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>This. </div><div>
</div><div>I am disappointed that anyone would protest the funeral of a serviceman or servicewoman. I do hope that the freedom riders or the angel wings people will still help prevent protestors at funerals. 

</div>

bourgehm

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_oh-supreme-court?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:3e3ce648-caf3-4742-a5e3-f0688b4fecd1Post:d18faf92-1754-4280-a116-220733fc0fd0">Re: Oh the Supreme Court...</a>:
[QUOTE]I agree with Hetshup, if  I expect my rights to be upheld I have to deal with the fact people I disagree with have those same rights.
Posted by bethsmiles[/QUOTE]

Agreed!

Elle1036

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_oh-supreme-court?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:3e3ce648-caf3-4742-a5e3-f0688b4fecd1Post:6ed8712e-dd29-4ffb-80c6-36f4584e593e">Re: Oh the Supreme Court...</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm actually proud of the court for up holding the decision. Let me caveat that with, I think that church is horrible, and I hope they burn in a fiery hell. But I'm proud that the court looked past the pain inflicted and upheld our laws. Now, this doesn't have to be a precedent for something more heinous in the future. I am not, however, above thinking that someone should start a riot at all their protests. It's gotta be PEACEFUL assembly, right?
Posted by hetshup[/QUOTE]

I could have written this post exactly.  I agree completely.

It would have genuinely scared me had the church ruled against them.  I hate them as much as anyone else, but it's like that old quote:  I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend your right to say it.

calindi

I do think the Court did exactly what it was supposed to do.  But I do support any local laws that help limit their protests and keep them far away from the mourners.

And if it was a loved one of mine whose funeral they were picketing, I would probably end up in jail for assaulting them.  And it would sooo be worth it.

SeaTea02

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_oh-supreme-court?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:3e3ce648-caf3-4742-a5e3-f0688b4fecd1Post:21730666-c549-4332-8594-10a99ffdaefa">Re: Oh the Supreme Court...</a>:
[QUOTE]Sure they have Freedom of Speech, but aren't they violating the constitution because of disorderly conduct?
Posted by alanna91[/QUOTE]

<div>They aren't disorderly, they are protesting. Distracting and offesive to some perhaps, but they are not disorderly. </div><div>
</div><div>The Supreme Court made the right decision today. They defended the constitution exactly how it is written. As much as I don't agree with WBC they have every right to say what they want and protest for it. </div><div>
</div><div>I want those I diagree with and detest to have the same right to speak as I want and enjoy. </div><div>
</div><div>The court protected all of our First Amendment rights today, not just WBC. </div>

oceana919

<div align="left">In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_oh-supreme-court?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:3e3ce648-caf3-4742-a5e3-f0688b4fecd1Post:9172465f-3f25-46aa-a3f2-1ff0e681f37c">Re: Oh the Supreme Court...</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Oh the Supreme Court... : Freedom Riders brought their motorcycles to rev them to block out the noise of the protestors.  I think I'd prefer the angel wings people singing or humming instead!  I hate the sound of motorcycles, they give me an instant headache. Posted by calindi[/QUOTE]

1) You're thinking of the Patriot Guard. Freedom Riders were prominent in the 1960s and had to do with the anti-segregation movement.

2) Whether or not the Patriot Guard participate in "blocking" the protest, and to what degree they interact (from merely holding up American flags to block the view of the WBB, to giving an actual motorcade escort to the parties involved with the funerals, singing songs or revving engines) is left completely up to the families. The Patriot Guard does not show up to funerals where the families prefer them not be.

In addition, PG is not restricted to simply motorcyclists - non-rider civilians participate in the counter protests on a regular basis. I'd know this, considering I'm a member.</div>

oceana919

I'm pretty passionate about the WBB. They threatened to picket the funeral of a friend of mine that was killed in Iraq. Thankfully, they didn't (they never did explain why they backed out of it), but I've had a vile hatred for these guys for a long, long time.

I get the decision. I don't agree with it in any way, shape or form, but I get it. The freedom of speech isn't restricted to those whose speech we like or approve of. It's designed to protect every citizens right to speak freely. I get it.

That being said, the decision still makes my stomach churn.

These people are standing outside the funerals of men and women who were killed protecting their right to do what they're doing. They have the ability to stand on a corner and spew vile hatred, all because the people that they're spewing it at sacrificed their lives. All because we, as a country, have the moral indecency to allow gays to live in our country.

The biggest problem I have with them is that they stamp the badge of Christianity on their hatred. In my mind, what they are doing (the protests, the hate speech, everything) is the complete antithesis of what it means to be a Christian. Being a Christian means treating others with dignity and kindness, not to judge others (because, frankly, it's not our place - it's God's), and to put forth goodness into the world. It's not to disturb funerals or mare a family's last opportunity to say goodbye to their loved one(s). I personally believe there's a special level of Hell specifically reserved for these cockroaches.

Frankly, if they have that big of a problem with how we live our lives and treat our citizens in this country, then get the f*ck out. Move to Iraq, or Libya, or Somolia, and see how well you are treated there. See how much freedom you have there. See how long you can run your mouths until you find yourselves *silenced*.

/rant

calindi

Oceana, more power to you!  Is there a website for others to volunteer?  I know a whole group of law students down here with an active interest in supporting military family members.  I'd bet we could get a bunch more volunteers!

peekaboo2011

I agree that the Supreme Court made the right decision, and local authorities in some cases do what they can to prevent protesting by WBC.

When WBC was planning on coming to VA Tech for the memorial service last year, the mayor/chief of police managed to stop them.  They needed a permit to assemble, and they would only grant them a permit for something like 2 miles away from the memorial in an itty bitty square.  And then made it very clear to WBC that IF anything were to happen to any of their protestors, there wouldn't be any witnesses.

Needless to say, WBC didn't show up.

oceana919

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_oh-supreme-court?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:3e3ce648-caf3-4742-a5e3-f0688b4fecd1Post:5eba0709-888d-4b73-a5eb-3d33e4442002">Re: Oh the Supreme Court...</a>:
[QUOTE]Oceana, more power to you!  Is there a website for others to volunteer?  I know a whole group of law students down here with an active interest in supporting military family members.  I'd bet we could get a bunch more volunteers!
Posted by calindi[/QUOTE]

Google Patriot Guard. Membership is free, and you're automatically put on the list-serv for events in the state.

peekaboo2011

Oceana, I swear I like you more every time you post something.

ravenray

Sadly I think we have to accept the courts ruling.  As much as it saddens me to see how cruel and hurtful this church is being to the families of soldiers, they do have freedom of speech.  I know that if I was protesting something that I was passionate about and I was told by the courts that I couldn't I would be furious.  Just because they are minority and most people don't agree with what they are saying doesn't mean we should silence them.  I can only hope that someone will help them understand what pain and emotional toil they are causing the families who are already dealing with such a hard and sad thing. There is also a good possibility they are just doing for publicity so maybe the news should just ignore them.