Feminism vs. "old school"...

imJacksPGbelly

So I know it's supposed to be chivalrous, but I'm not sure how I'd feel about BF asking my dad for my hand.

Long story short:  prior marriage was a complete disaster.. and ex-H was the only one of my parents son-in-laws who HAD asked my dad for permission.  So my parents had been all excited about him because of it.  They didn't realize that the Ex had only done it because I told him it would mean a lot to my dad.

So, now-- fast-forward about 8 years later, after a failed abusive relationship..  after getting away from a spouse who seemed to think that I was "his"..  and now the idea of asking my parents'/dad's permission for my hand seems silly at best (it's my decision), and archaic and offensive at worst (I am no body's property.  I am an independent woman, single mother, and I'm not getting passed between ownership).

And then I brainstorm about the wedding b/c I've heard people mention it before.. the idea of my dad walking me down the aisle.  It never happened at my first wedding b/c of the kind of religious ceremony it was.  So part of me wants to have it, but then I realize it's the same archaic "giving away" and "passing of ownership".  So Instead, I'm thinking of doing what I've seen someone else on here say:  Having both his parents walk him up the aisle, both my parents walk me up the aisle, and at whatever point, they stop, and I continue forward on my own.  It may seem silly, but I'm a stubborn person, and I'm not okay with male-dominated symbolism at my wedding. 

I think BF might want to ask my dad because he knows my dad likes that kind of "chivalry", and because my dad already LOVES BF.. I sometimes worry about other BILs of mine getting jealous b/c they're going to get close, i think.  But I think I'm going to tell him that I'd rather he ask BOTH of my parents if he can join their family, rather than asking if he can take my hand in marriage...

Semantics perhaps.  But I really have gotten feminist since my last relationship.  Once burned.. twice shy.

Thoughts?

KatyRoseM

If it makes you feel better about it to have him ask both parents do so.  It's not just semantics, it's symbolic and how you feel.  You could consider it asking for their blessing rather than permission, which also might make you feel better.  As for the walking thing, in Jewish traditions it's always both parents, and both the bride and groom get walked in by their families.  It doesn't have to be about property transfer, it can just be about families joining, or about support and love.  Mostly I say do what makes you feel good about it.  Take your parent's feelings into consideration but you are an adult. 

Wrkn925

My Dad hasn't been asked.

With my sister, she came in an announced she was pregnant and marrying her BF.  He passed away, and my sister started dating a jerk.  They got married in a courthouse and told us two months later.  We all hated him, now they are divorced.

I'm pretty sure my dad will be floored when BF asks.

It's not about asking if he can marry me, it's about asking for a blessing. 

He plans on asking my Mom, too.  She has me, my sister, a step-daughter and a step-son.  No one has asked for a blessing, and no one has gotten married without being knocked up.  *knock on wood* I'll be the first to do things a little more traditional, and I know they want that.  I feel like I owe them that.  I'm who I am today because of them, and they deserve some respect.

[Deleted User]

I think that you should do whatever makes you and your BF most comfortable.

To me, these traditions to not represent ownership, property or male domination. I know my BF plans to ask my mom (parents are divorced) for her blessing. He's not taking me from my family to "own" me...he's respecting the fact that my mom has been (and will be) a huge part of my life. In his way he is including her in the process. I feel the same about the aisle walk. If these traditions do not hold meaning to you and your BF however, skip them. No where does it say you have to follow a "wedding formula". Do what makes you both happy.

motoLyn

I think because of your previous relationship it shapes your view now.  My FI wanted to make sure that my parents knew he wanted to marry me but before he could ask my dad already blurted out "so are you going to marry her? if you're moving in together"  actually he asked in broken English and it was more like when are you going to marry her.  As for the walking down the aisle.  I'm walking myself down the aisle.  My parents can be seated nicely in the front.  I rather them not walk me, but I'm not Christian and I'm not traditional.  So eh....

oceana919

When DH and I started talking marriage, engagement, etc., I specifically asked him to ask for my parents' blessings before he proposed. Call me "old-fashioned" or "traditional", but that just seems like a very respectful gesture towards my family, and it meant a lot to me that he asked.

calindi

FI was going to ask for their blessing (not permission), but he ended up doing it in front of me.  As I pointed out, it wasn't some old fashioned barter between men - it was important that my Mom was there, too, and since it was a decision both FI and I had already made together, I saw no reason for me to not be there when they spoke.  FI really liked the idea of all doing it together.  Anyway, we sat down with my parents and FI led the conversation.  It was super easy, "James, Lynn, you know I love your daughter very much, and I'm sure it's no surprise that we want to get married.  I'd like to ask your blessing."  (Those aren't my parents' real names).  My Dad said, "Take good care of her.  Take good care of each other."  Then he raised up his glass (we were having a beer at the time) and said, "A toast to a beautiful couple."

It chokes me up just thinking about it, and it was a really wonderful moment!  I'm so glad that I was able to be there for it!!!

redheadfsu

 My FI asked my parents as I know my parents wanted it. It was asking for a blessing, not for permission to ask me. My parents thought it was sweet. That is why he did it. He is a suck-up to my parents.

P.S. I'm a crazy feminist (& yes, I know the history...that women were property of dad, then husband).

SassyFlats

DH asked for my dad's permission or blessing or something... I don't know what. I wasn't there. He specifically asked my dad NOT to tell my mom anything because he knew my mom would spill the beans to me. Which is TOTALLY true.

There was a time when I hated the idea of any guy asking my dad for anything regarding me. I don't feel close to my dad and don't feel like he's got any idea what's good for me. I'm not sure he ever has. But, DH is a traditional guy, and my dad knows how stubborn I am and knows I'm going to do as a damn well please no matter what he says, so it didn't matter much to me. It's nice that DH asked for... whatever he asked for. Or gave my dad a heads-up... or whatever that conversation was. But honestly, it was just for show.

I did walk down the aisle with my dad. Our relationship actually improved over the course of planning my wedding. He really, honestly, wanted to help with the wedding. He wanted to give me everything I wanted. He was, I think, trying to make up for years of a very stressful, fragile father-daughter relationship and a very rough home life growing up. I am really grateful to my dad for the effort he put into my wedding... and in return, I guess, I decided not to push to walk down the aisle alone. There wasn't even a reason to decide how I would make my way down the aisle until weeks before the wedding. By that time, I decided I was okay with it.

I actually discussed with a friend, who has dad problems, that she either walk alone, with both parents, or she and her fiance walk down the aisle together. I love the last option. Walking together with your soon-to-be husband says to me "We've already committed to each other, and we're in this together." I love that idea, and really hope she does that when the time comes. It seems really forward-thinking, and not too terribly offensive to dad. Whatever the reasons, I would really be hesitant to make your dad feel bad about not walking you down the aisle. Walking with your FI seems pretty reasonable to me, and maybe the least hurtful option aside from walking with both parents.

Sparrow87

I think asking for your hand is a great way to help your parents feel included in the whole wedding experience.  But I'm like you I don't do traditional things for traditions sake they have to mean something to me. 

And also, imho, your father walking you down the aisle is more of an honor thing than an actual "giving away."  Several of my cousins had both their parents walk them arm in arm and I thought that was pretty cute. 

I hope that helped! 

heyimbren

Traditions really only have as much symbolism and meaning as the people partaking in them allow them to have.

I think a lot of PP are getting at that same idea by saying how it includes their parents and honours them. This is just one way to do it.

jemmini6

I sort of have the same sentiments about "asking permission, or bleassing" as you do.  I don't need my parents permission to get married, or even their blessing necessarily.  Then again, my mom has been telling FI to marry me since we were dating for only 4 months, so he already knew he had their blessing.  But FI did not talk to either of my parents prior to proposing and I'm honestly glad he didn't.  It was nice to be able to tell my mom that we were engaged and have her be excited and surprised too.

csousa1

I agree that the whole notion is a bit archaic, and I think you should do whatever makes you feel comfortable. You have every right to feel how you feel.

For me, I like the idea of him getting their blessing, not permission, but it would be both my parents. My dad is my adoptive dad - my biological father was out of my life when I was two and my dad is the most amazing man I know. My mom was a single mom for a few years and busted her ass to raise my sister and I incredibly well. So yea, they both need to be there.  My FBIL only asked my dad because he was worried my mom would give it away (she's actually much better at keeping secrets) and her feelings were kinda hurt. Besides, my mom and BF are closer than my dad and BF anyway, so she knows him a little better.

ETA - I have a friend whose ex-fiance asked her entire family. Her parents (step parents included), grandparents, aunts and uncles. By the time she told people she was engaged, everyone already knew. That was way ridiculous,

desertsun

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_feminism-vs-old-school?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:59bb2b3d-31a9-4a62-9541-76835168458ePost:c75c6a56-76ee-4367-a08e-ecc6e3693703">Re: Feminism vs. "old school"...</a>:
[QUOTE]Traditions really only have as much symbolism and meaning as the people partaking in them allow them to have. I think a lot of PP are getting at that same idea by saying how it includes their parents and honours them. This is just one way to do it.
Posted by heyimbren[/QUOTE]

Exactly this.

Asking my dad or any of our parents for a blessing ahead of time honestly didn't occur to either one of us.

It just wasn't something that was meaningful to us.

But we did ask for parental blessings when we called to announce our engagement, more for them than for us.

caitlin.cave

BF and I have begun to discuss this recently.  He's also a pretty traditional type.  I told him that when we take the next step, I do want to talk to my parents and get their blessing, but I want it to be the two of us together.  It's important for me to talk to them because they were completely right about the last guy I dated, and if they have serious concerns, we need to consider them.  I personally feel like if I'm not there I'm not taking ownership of the decision to be married, and since it is OUR decision, I think we should both be there to talk to them.

His parents are another story because his mother has told me before that she considers me another one of her children, and she's expressed that she's on board with us being a permanent kind of thing.  We will probably talk to them too, when the time comes.

Long story shortish, if you feel uncomfortable with having him go ask your father for permission, perhaps something like this would suit you better. 

Elle1036

He wanted to ask my dad (well, both my parents actually) but I put my foot down.  After we got engaged, we visited him together and told him.

I understand why you'd feel uncomfortable with your BF asking your dad -- I felt weird about it, too.

SKP82

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_feminism-vs-old-school?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:59bb2b3d-31a9-4a62-9541-76835168458ePost:71be95c0-bf24-4938-a659-4b9728ba259b">Re: Feminism vs. "old school"...</a>:
[QUOTE]<strong>I think because of your previous relationship it shapes your view now.</strong> 
Posted by motoLyn[/QUOTE]

This.  It is natural for you to be more sensitive and want to vehemently stand up for women's rights because of what you've been through, but PPs are right.  It is up to you and how it makes you feel.  If you feel that BF asking your father before proposing to you would make you feel like you are being traded, definitely do something that makes you feel more comfortable.

It came up in conversation with friends once whether or not a man should ask his GF's father for permission.  While alone, I asked BF if he would want to ask my father.  He said he absolutely would.  I thought about it and at first was adamant that he NOT ask.  My father and I do not have a relationship (I haven't spoken to him in over a year) and it does not matter to me what he thinks about my relationship.  BUT, it does matter to BF (he's very traditional and would want to be able to say that yes, he had asked beforehand).  So, if it matters so much to him, and not so much to me, it's ok with me since it's something he feels strongly about.

As far as walking down the aisle, I love the idea of walking together as a couple.

leia1979

I specifically asked FI to not ask my parents for their blessing. I told him I should be the first person he asks, not my parents. He respected my wishes.

imJacksPGbelly

I'm liking some of these ideas... walking with both parents, but also walking in with him at the time..

Also good advice to tell him that I want to be the first person he officially asks, not my parents.  But for the sake of honoring and including them, I'm liking what some of you have mentioned..  having the conversation with all 4 of us together.  I like how that feels... more collaborative, like every one is on the same ground. 

Really good thoughts.  I know that my experiences definitely shape my opinions on things (my mom tells me this regularly.. especially after ranting to her about how ridiculous it is that one of my 18 yr old nieces is getting "married off" to some 27 yr old guy she hardly knows..  lol  Not sure that one is just my perception though).  But anyway, it's nice to hear other viewpoints, to kind of "check" myself.

luvdncn90

My Bf is very traditional and to him it is a huge sign of respect to ask my father not for his permission but his blessing.

My dad already knows we want to get married and we both know how much it will mean to my dad for M to talk to him before he decides to propose.

dragonwagon

FI asked my parents before he proposed, and my father will be walking me down the aisle. None of this makes me feel like property.

SassyFlats

Spoke with DH, he said he called my dad and asked "Hey, is it okay if I marry your daughter?" and my dad said "Yeah, sure." and DH said something like "Great. Just don't tell her mom... I want it to be a surprise." and my dad laughed and agreed not to tell my mom.

Even if I had felt like I didn't want him to ask for my dad's PERMISSION, it really doesn't feel like a big deal now that it's all said and done.