Health Care

katanne9

I'm NOT trying to begin a political spat-fast, but I'm curious as to see how everyone feels about the new health care bill?

E_SquaredPA

I picked Indifferent because at the moment, I am for the IDEA but not so much the current itteration and some of the things in the bill (Disclaimer, I only know what I've read on CNN). For example, I think the whole "not denying insurance to children with pre-existing conditions" is great, but the idea of "if you choose not to spend your money on health insurance you have to pay a fine to the gov" really irks me. I don't like that House Dems refused to include a GOP clause to refuse coverage of ED drugs to convicted sex offenders (I also don't particularly like the conditions under which they introduced the clause, but I think they have the right idea). Basically, the bill needs a lot of work and will hopefully get the attention it deserves in terms of editing and revisions.

PaigeMcC

o0 politics...dangerous territory Kat! lol

So here's my two cents...
I'm Canadian (duh) and so I believe that everyone has the right to health care.  That's how I was raised, that's what I believe.  Everyone should have the right to be treated by a knowledgeable specialist without having to jump thru hoops. 

So I don't have an indepth understanding of this bill (it's over 2,000 pages long!!) but from what I've read on CNN, etc this seems like a step in the right direction.  33 million (is that the right #?) will get insurance...which is great! But from the comments I've been seeing it looks like it still needs work in other areas...fines for no insurance, 18 - 26 mil without insurance even after the bill (yes I know most are illegal immigrants but that's beside the point), etc.

So anywho, I applaud you all, my neighbours to the south, universal health care is a HUGE thing and it's a great thing...it seems like you're on the right path to (maybe, eventually) get a system that is inclusive of (almost) all people.  It needs work but the idea and the move to make it happen is a great thing.

kelseyd625

I think there's a lot of tweaking and working things out that still needs to be done, but I think it's a great step forward in helping the people of our country. We already gave large corporations bailouts that used them to give their already millionaire CEOs bonuses instead of helping the average worker....so if government can be so far reaching to do that, I think we need to make sure everyone has health care (kind of like how everyone has to have car insurance...it's kind of the same idea).

Sorry to go on a rant...I just watched the newest Michael Moore move, "Capitalism, A Love Story" and it just made me so upset with how bad the workers have it while the CEOs are stuffing their pockets with backhand deals!

katanne9

Haha, Oh Paige don't I know it's too early. However, upon reading all the news this morning I can't help myself.

I'm definitely for the fact that everyone deserves healthcare. Children with pre-determined conditions should absolutely be provided health care no matter what.

However, I'm against this bill. I think it's too idealistic and flawed in it's construction. I think it's unconstitutional because they are asking states to pay out more money than feasibly possible. I also think it's unconstitutional because they are putting a tax on living, which is a right not a luxury.

katanne9

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_health-care?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:bc498a07-7724-4ad2-ade2-8c74683af276Post:02e8e09a-5802-416d-9cfc-75e0abdcce96">Re: Health Care</a>:
[QUOTE]I think we need to make sure everyone has health care (kind of like how everyone has to have car insurance...it's kind of the same idea).
Posted by kelseyd625[/QUOTE]


Yes, but driving a car is a luxury and not a right, and it's namely to protect other drivers, not yourself. Living is not a luxury, it's a right.

Ana_2985

I support it.  Not because I think it's perfect now, but because I think it will motivate people to actually do something and make improvements on it now that it's real and not just an idea.

I believe that everyone has the right to health care and I hate that treating sick or injured people is a business.

StephB1185

I support it. It needs tweaking, but I agree with PP that it will motivate people to want to improve it now.  Obviously it's not perfect yet, and there are some things in there that make you go, HUH?!?, but, I'm proud that the people I elected are doing what I elected them to do.. well, one thing... now let's work on education- it's just as important!

paintgirl

At the risk of getting in trouble (Jeana, I didn't start this) I think the bill is a steaming pile of sh*t. Note: I am self-employed and therefore pay for insurance out of my own pocket. I have several pre-existing conditions which make insurance complicated. And this bill a) won't do all that much to help me and b) still sucks.

Here's what they should have done:
1. Increase competition among insurance companies by making it easier (read: incentivizing) providing plans that cross state lines. (If you can get Blue Cross in Virginia, you can get it in Oklahoma too.) More competition = better service and lower prices.
2. Subsidize or incentivize preventive care. Make us a proactive nation, not reactive.
3. Get insurance companies to require a second opinion for expensive tests and procedures. (Some do now, but certainly not all.)
4. Increase the income cap for health-related expense tax deductions. (I paid a boat load in health expenses last year but couldn't deduct them from my taxes.)
5. Standardize how insurance companies handle pre-existing conditions - 6, 10, 12 month limit on how long they can deny paying for them.

The only major thing I agree with on principle with this bill is that an individual wih a  serious pre-existing condition (i.e. cancer, HIV, kidney failure, etc) should be able to get coverage SOMEWHERE. However, insurance companies work like a warranty company. If you KNOW some number of units are going to fail, you have to charge enough for the warranty on ALL units to cover those failed ones. So guess what? Someone picks up the tab - either all of us by higher premiums, co-pays and/or co-insurance, or the government, either state or federal. And guess what else? That's still us. Personally, I'd rather do it by a risk-based premium than to have the government do it. They screw up everything they touch. Ten years from now there will be a staff of thousands running this program and at least 25 of them will be assigned to "determining need for new staplers".

Glad you asked? I saw an interview with a veterinarian. She said we should treat people like we treat our pets to some degree. If they need an expensive procedure, we ask how it will work, chances of success, and maybe get another opinion. With people, we just say, "sure! When can you get me in?"

Narwhal

I don't exactly support it.  I think there does need to be health care reform, but I don't like the idea of the government controlling it completely.  I'm also not a fan of a lot of the riders or the ways they say they're going to pay for it.  I owe enough on my student loans... I would really rather not have the interest rates raised.

paintgirl

As for the Canadian system, my ex-bf's mom died of pancreatic cancer. Pancreatic cancer is almost always fatal, but she died a heck of a lot faster in Canada than she should have in the US. She was on a waiting list for care.

My best friend's mom was on a waiting list for a hip replacement for almost 2 years. By the time she had surgery, she was basically house-bound and in excruciating pain.

I'll keep paying insurance premiums, co-pays, and co-insurance. As long as I still have an option to buy my own, and can afford to after taxes to pay for this giant mess, I'm not going to totally freak out.

PaigeMcC

Paint - I agree that the Canadian system is not perfect, either.  We have LONG as$ waiting lists for things that we shouldn't.  BUT that is being worked on (or so they saying Ottawa) and everyone does get care.

Anyways, neither of the systems is perfect but I really strongly believe that ensuring everyone has healthcare is a priority, even though the wait times are rather long in some cases. 

Narwhal

Doesn't canada still have private companies where you can pay to get better care than the government will give you? I heard they're really expensive too.

PaigeMcC

There are very few (if any) private clinics in Canada.  Government runs pretty much everything.  But you can go to the States and sometimes your insurance will cover it if you can justify it.

And on that note I would like to say that I am not posting and running...I'm going to a meeting.  Have fun with your discussion ladies!!

PaigeMcC

Before I run - let me calirfy...Canadian medical services are generally free at point of access and no one is denied care b/c they can't pay (or that's the theory).  Most of these services are run by private entities that are funded by the government...doctors get fees per visit, labs are privately owned but publicly funded, etc etc.

paintgirl

I was reading recently about private health care abroad. You can fly to Paris and get a hip replacement for example. It was interesting - the cost was WAY lower than you would pay in the US - and that was paying out of pocket. Still not an option for most people, I know, but it was interesting.

Narwhal

Thats because parisians get everything for free AND a shorter work week, and they still protest in the streets about it.

They're income taxes are 52% though if i remember correctly.

hetshup

I have really mixed emotions about this. I think that the bill needs to be tweaked to include catastrophic coverage, but maybe not so much of the preventative coverage. Of course the catastrophic coverage is the really expensive stuff. My process for mixed emotions, my mom had her appendix out with emergency surgery, she actually waited so long that it burst in the hospital. She got the bills, which she forwarded to the insurance co; cost to her if she paid it out of pocket? 49k, cost to insurance company that paid it? 15k. That is a HUGE differential, where does it come from? I’ve mentioned that there is some drama in my real life; here is a portion of it: FI best friend’s dad is dying of cirrhosis of the liver. He stopped drinking 24 years ago; well he can’t work full time because he’s too sick, so his health insurance dropped him. He needs a transplant, but the operation is going to send them into bankruptcy. So he’s dying and all of us are banding together to try to get enough money to keep his family functioning when/if he dies. But FI parents are doctors (what is seen as non-medical, chiropractors) and they don’t want big brother breathing down their neck.  It’s such a mess.

paintgirl

I should include a caveat with the Canadian comment - they live/lived in a slightly more remote part of Canada. Not NW Territory or anything, but not exactly Vancouver or Toronto! Could have had an impact.

Acrosthec

I don't have the time or energy to get into it right now, but suffice to say I'm with Paint.  In addition, I'll say that from a legal standpoint, the bill has more than a few questionable areas regarding its constitutionality, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was repealed once the SCOTUS deems it unconstitutional.

I do have one question though.  I read that the bill includes a provision regarding student loans?  WTF does that have to do with healthcare reform?  Is it actually in the bill (can someone point it out to me? I don't have time to read 2000+ pages looking for it), and if so, WHY?

sapphirebaby926

Yeah I'm with paint and acro - I think something needed to be done but this bill is definitely not it

paintgirl

Acro - AMEN! What happened to federalism - not pre-empting state's rights? Unfunded mandates? And we could go on... and on... and on...

The Commonwealth of Virginia signed a state bill blocking the federal bill. Nice work.

I had a line-by-line somewhere but can't find it.

zaneopal

Paint -- Not sure how I feel about VA blocking the federal bill, though I agree with state's rights...though it's giving me another reason that I'm cross about Gov McDonnell speaking at my college graduation, since I have a sneaking feeling it was done more out of partisanship than any real concern for federalism.

Katanne -- I put other because while I believe health care is a human right, this bill is not what we need. I don't think it's going to help the situation...in fact, I don't think this bill is going to do anything at all except increase political contention between the parties.

paintgirl

Hetshup - That's awful. I'm sorry to hear what your friend is going through. The difference between "insurance negotiated rate" and an individual's rate (without coverage) truly is ridiculous. It probably just started as economy of scale - the insurance purchase so many services, they get a deal. But I agree it's gone too far. When my doctor's office is only paid $24 for a visit... well, I wonder how the heck they get by. Yeah they do 4 visits an hour, but consider the overhead.

Something's gotta happen... this bill just isn't it.

Narwhal

I haven't read the entire bill, Acro, but I read the summaries of the reconciliation, which has a lot of the student loan reform in it.  From what I can understand, the government is going to not allow any private student loans through banks, but they're also going to remove the cap on interest rates. They are going to use the money they earn from the interest rates to help fund the health care bill and to raise the Pell Grant (which the majority of people aren't even eligible for...)

Acrosthec

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_health-care?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:bc498a07-7724-4ad2-ade2-8c74683af276Post:bf3d9f6d-829c-4ee6-85f2-33de646ef9bb">Re: Health Care</a>:
[QUOTE]Acro - AMEN! What happened to federalism - not pre-empting state's rights? Unfunded mandates? And we could go on... and on... and on... The Commonwealth of Virginia signed a state bill blocking the federal bill. :) Nice work. I had a line-by-line somewhere but can't find it.
Posted by paintgirl[/QUOTE]

I can't help it.  I'm a libertarian.  ::shrug::

hetshup

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_health-care?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:bc498a07-7724-4ad2-ade2-8c74683af276Post:8efdafb1-82fe-49de-9b5f-192c9e00a077">Re: Health Care</a>:
[QUOTE]It probably just started as economy of scale - the insurance purchase so many services, they get a deal. But I agree it's gone too far. When my doctor's office is only paid $24 for a visit... well, I wonder how the heck they get by. Posted by paintgirl[/QUOTE]


This is my biggest issue, the med school students are still paying 150-200k for schooling, they are all going into specialties b\c that's the ONLY way they can make money to pay those loans back. Plus they have to pay huge malpractice costs etc etc. I don't think this bill is it, but I am pleased to see that they are trying to do something. The conspiracy theorist in me says that they are forcing this bill, so when the "real" bill comes through, the shock is gone and they can get some work done.

I admit I don't know a lot about medicare, but it seems to work well. Correct me if I am wrong.

ekathleen684

I agree with Acro and Paint.Something needs to be changed but I don't believe this is it.
There was a local Dr. on the news yesterday saying that he will quit once everything goes into affect because he doesn't want the government breathing down his neck, like Hetshup said. He said he didn't feel right about basically lying to patients about procedures and  he didn't feel comfortable doing the procedure that the government wants and not what would better benefit the patient.

jeanacorina

Paint, I'm ok with political threads. Not with politics mixed in with wedding dresses.

I've been burned many times by very poltical family members and it hurts a lot to be judged on something by someone you care about when you didn't even want to talk about it in the first place.

Anyway, on-topic: I voted indifferent because I feel wholeheartedly, 100% that something needs to be done. I think everyone should be able to get the care they need. I like the parts about parents being able to keep their children on their insurance longer (how many college students or fresh college grads can afford inance? How long will it take for them to qualify for insurance from a new employer? Messed up).

There are many things I do like about this bill, and many things that I think are very muddled. I feel that it needs a lot of work. I am pissed off by all the partisan antics. I am pissed off by all the things that had to be specially included for certain states just to gain favor and get a vote. If it isn't good enough to be passed, it should be worked on until it IS good enough.

If politicians aren't voting for it just because of the President's party affiliation and not because of the actual bill itself, I think they are being rediculous and that is a major problem.

The whole thing has become less about the bill and more about partisanship and gaining votes, and that makes me feel pretty freaking apathetic about the government.

But we do need a better system. I'm glad steps are being taken to do that. I just wish it wasn't such an agonizing, biased, and selfish process on the parts of the people in Washington.

I'm an idealist, though. Actually, technically, I'm a centrist.

desertsun

I'm with Acro and Paint and the others who agree with them.

I'm also a bit of a libertarian. Socially liberal, fiscally conservative. I think we need a new party that represents these kinds of views, as I think this is where the majority of Americans are today.

I work for the state, and let's just say I don't trust any government to run anything efficiently.

Narwhal

Hetshup, medicare seems like its working, but it really isn't. it does its job for doctor's visits, but follow up care is really not good. they provide minimum coverage for people who need rehab centers and nursing homes.  If the person doesn't have a family to care for them, they end up in places that will neglect them and not provide adequate care, simply because thats all they could afford with what they were approved of.