Law School Question

LizzyTish88

Hey ladies. So I went to a job fair the other day at school, and it just made me realize even more that I should have picked a different major. I have a BS in Sociology, and it is doing nothing for me. I have been on a handful of interviews looking for a job since December, and it goes well until they ask what my major was. One guy expressed that he couldn't understand why I was applying to their job even though I had a Soc degree.

So at the job fair I picked up info on law school. I think I might apply and try to get a degree in something more narrow. So I ask, what do you like about law school? List a few positives and a few negatives. I would like to see what everyone has to say so that I can make an informed decision on whether or not to apply. TIA!

loves2shop4shoes

Oh man...I have a lot of advice for you.

1)  The people you talked to are morons.  Unless you're trying to go into engineering, accounting, finance, or something otherwise VERY specialized, It doesn't matter what you majored in in undergrad.  It just matters that you went to college and did reasonably well in college.

2)  Don't go to law school to help you with the job search.  Just don't do it.  The ONLY reason to go to law school is because you WANT to be a lawyer and you WANT all of the things that go along with it.  YOU REALLY NEED TO LOVE IT!

Pros about law school:  You learn how to think like a lawyer.  You learn the law.  You learn what really goes on in the legal profession.  It's more education.

Cons about law school:  90% of the people you interact with on a daily basis are TOOLS, the work load is outrageous, it's INSANELY competitive, EVERYONE is stressed out, you don't have time for most things outside of law school, you're more likely to be an alcoholic/suicidal if you're a law student, the amount of classes you have to take is outrageous, it's expensive, the job market for lawyers right now sucks, socially it's like middle school all over again, you're more likely to put on weight because you have no time to cook healthy food, your relationship with everyone you love will be strained because you'll have less time for them...
That's all I can think of off the top of my head.  But I'll let you know if I think of more.


All of that being said...if this is what you want, it's what you want.  But you need to be 1000000% sure that it IS what you want.  Otherwise, it won't go well for you.  Also, if you DO decide to go to law school, you NEED to go to the school that gives you the most money in scholarship.  Honestly, unless you're going to a top 5 school, taking out 200k in debt for law school is stupid.  In this economy, it's hard to find a legal job, and nearly impossible to find a job that will pay you enough to pay back that kind of debt.

Good luck!

DanieKA

Likes:

-I love school, I like to read so the case load/reading was never overwhelming for me. 

-I enjoyed the atmosphere at my law school (most of the time) and that can vary from school to school. While most law schools will be filled with type-A, over achievers who are very competitive and very driven, my school was far more laid back. Let's face it, anyone in law school is probably an over achiever, but you can get the feel of the school by going to open houses at the perspective schools and talking to your perspective classmates. If they seem like they'd sell you out for a better class rank and a more prestigious summer internship, chances are they will. Some schools try to discourage this. Other schools don't seem to mind the kill or be killed mentality. 

-I definitely have a depth of knowledge that helps me in everyday life. While it's frowned upon to go around saying "I'm a law student/lawyer! I know my rights!!!" You definitely stand a little taller knowing you aren't going to be taken advantage of as easily as a layperson. From traffic stops, to payment of bills (always paying, not trying to get out of it or anything like that), to everyday little things, you learn a lot more than even you may think you will. And that will stay with you forever. Whether you practice law or not.

Dislikes:

-The job market. Yes, even for lawyers isn't great. Now this depends on where you are regionally and where you want to be. The market is slowly bouncing back, but pay still isn't what it was in the 90s. 

-For me personally, after hours and hours of study, lots of school, several internships, I'm still not sure I want to practice law as a living. Yes, I enjoyed school. Yes I would do it all over again, but I'm having a bit of a crisis of conscience. Is this really what I want to do for the rest of my life? Now I have loans to account for, so the decision shouldn't be made lightly. I can definitely look towards alternative careers, but the financial pressure weighs heavily on me. I take my last law school final April 29...time is ticking away for me to decide these things. 

Good luck! 

heyimbren

Maybe law school is different in the States, but I know plenty of people who go into law school (or have finished law school) who chose not to be lawyers. They simply saw it as a good education, and really valued it for that. Then they went off and found any other number of careers to go into. These people told me that they have no regrets about this, and the skills they developped were worth it.

LizzyTish88

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_law-school-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:e129eac9-8fc3-436c-8b2e-e3048dd05bb3Post:99996a21-e580-462f-96f6-33fc811153cc">Re: Law School Question</a>:
[QUOTE]<strong>Maybe law school is different in the States, but I know plenty of people who go into law school (or have finished law school) who chose not to be lawyers.</strong>They simply saw it as a good education, and really valued it for that. Then they went off and found any other number of careers to go into. These people told me that they have no regrets about this, and the skills they developped were worth it.
Posted by heyimbren[/QUOTE]

No, that is right here. I wouldn't be going to be a lawyer. They focus on four major areas, Civil and Human Rights, Community Law practice, Economic Justice, and Legal Support for Operating Business and Creating Innovation. (as taken from the packet).

It is just a thought. I am not set either way. I just want to hear what others have to say about it. Thanks for all the advice so far.

Hazel_B

I've never been one to think that any form of education is a bad idea. I think you could get a lot of value out of a law degree.

That being said, are you prepared for the financial consequences? A friend of mine is now paying off a law degree from MI and he has made sacrafices in order to do that and has been fortunate in other ways. First, he no longer lives in MI because the job situation is so bad there for lawyers. Second, he has no undergrad debt. Fortunately, he was able to find a good job but it is in Canada and I don't think that was his original plan at all.

heyimbren

CD, do you have an idea of what you'd do after school?

LizzyTish88

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_law-school-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:e129eac9-8fc3-436c-8b2e-e3048dd05bb3Post:a81b039d-5d71-4350-8bcd-05f66777b9ea">Re: Law School Question</a>:
[QUOTE]CD, do you have an idea of what you'd do after school?
Posted by heyimbren[/QUOTE]

I honestly don't. I have no idea what I want to do at all. I think that is where my problem lies. If I were to go to law school, it would give me four more years to decide. When I think about it I want to, but then I start reading about applying and what you would have to do and don't know if it is right for me. I am trying to weigh my options.

DanieKA

I think A lot, not the majority, but a good number of people with law degrees don't end up being lifetime lawyers. It's not at all unheard of in the states. What makes it a bit harder here are the financial aspects that have been touched on. I also don't have any undergrad debt, so I'm better off than a lot in that respect, but very few people can pay out of pocket for law school. That financial pressure could push you into being a lawyer simply because nothing will pay high enough to really put a dent in your loans. Even as a lawyer (not working for the state which may eventually forgive your loans) you are looking at a decade(s) long commitment to pay off those loans. 

I am currently looking at both legal and non legal career opportunities after I take the bar this July. I'm currently working as a mediator part-time. You don't have to be a lawyer to be a certified neutral, but I'd say 80% of the mediators I work with are former attorneys. There are viable careers out there for someone with a law degree. 

But it almost sounds like you are looking at LL.M programs or some variation of a "Masters in Law" and not traditional law school. Is it a one year program or a 3 year program? The four areas you listed sound like great opportunities, especially if they don't carry the financial weight of a full on legal education. 

heyimbren

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_law-school-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:e129eac9-8fc3-436c-8b2e-e3048dd05bb3Post:19a629b2-0cb1-44cf-abe1-57ac1189226b">Re: Law School Question</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Law School Question : I honestly don't. I have no idea what I want to do at all. I think that is where my problem lies. If I were to go to law school, it would give me four more years to decide. When I think about it I want to, but then I start reading about applying and what you would have to do and don't know if it is right for me. I am trying to weigh my options.
Posted by cdechristopher[/QUOTE]

It is a big commitment, both in the amount of time and money it costs. TBH, that's something I struggle with too, when I see the amount of commitment it does take. But that's worth it to me, so that's something to consider for your own life as well.

Do you know when you'd want to apply and when you'd write the LSAT if that's what you decided to do?

LizzyTish88

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_law-school-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:e129eac9-8fc3-436c-8b2e-e3048dd05bb3Post:7857be23-12af-4c61-97e3-19ffdc86b6c5">Re: Law School Question</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Law School Question : It is a big commitment, both in the amount of time and money it costs. TBH, that's something I struggle with too, when I see the amount of commitment it does take. But that's worth it to me, so that's something to consider for your own life as well. <strong>Do you know when you'd want to apply and when you'd write the LSAT if that's what you decided to do?
</strong>Posted by heyimbren[/QUOTE]

I have to sign up for the LSAT by the end of April and take it in June. July is when the application is due and August is when the fall semester begins. That is if I want to get in for this August. I could always take time to think about it and go for the Spring semester.

Danieka- I would most likely be going nights and weekends. The website says that you can finish in 2 and a half years if you go full time and during the summer, 4 if you do not. The name of the program is the "Juris Doctor Program." (I'm sorry I really don't know all the lingo, but hopefully this will explain what I am talking about.)

DanieKA

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_law-school-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:e129eac9-8fc3-436c-8b2e-e3048dd05bb3Post:f51848f7-6620-4ee2-96bb-c2b1fd5fe4e4">Re: Law School Question</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Law School Question : I have to sign up for the LSAT by the end of April and take it in June. July is when the application is due and August is when the fall semester begins. That is if I want to get in for this August. I could always take time to think about it and go for the Spring semester. Danieka- I would most likely be going nights and weekends. The website says that you can finish in 2 and a half years if you go full time and during the summer, 4 if you do not. <strong>The name of the program is the "Juris Doctor Program."</strong> (I'm sorry I really don't know all the lingo, but hopefully this will explain what I am talking about.)
Posted by cdechristopher[/QUOTE]

<div>Welcome to law school! Yup, that's definitely the real deal! I always say, it doesn't hurt to apply. You don't ever have to go and if you do, I'm sure you'll make the most of it! But if you don't apply, then you have to wait a whole semester. If you decide to wait the semester anyway, you'll have already applied and could probably defer acceptance till the spring, but at least you know you got in. </div>

heyimbren

You'd be getting your JD then, which is a law degree (as opposed to an LLM).

One thing to warn you about with the June date, is you may not get the test centre you want since it's so close to the date.

KatyRoseM

I've wanted to be a lawyer ever since I was 5.  That said I wish I hadn't gone to law school.  Its expensive, and there is no market.  I love what I do and enjoy working with clients (in a clinic, I havn't graduated yet) but feel like its not worth it.  And this is from someone who loves the law.

loves2shop4shoes

Just an FYI, you can't get an LLM without already having a JD.

DanieKA

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_law-school-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:e129eac9-8fc3-436c-8b2e-e3048dd05bb3Post:20a86831-97cd-463f-a7f8-ec84328eace1">Re: Law School Question</a>:
[QUOTE]Just an FYI, you can't get an LLM without already having a JD.
Posted by loves2shop4shoes[/QUOTE]

<div>I knew that, but the specialized nature of those topics CD mentioned sounded like an LL.M program. The description was very specialized for a general JD program, but it's all been cleared up now. </div>

CSTK1910

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_law-school-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:e129eac9-8fc3-436c-8b2e-e3048dd05bb3Post:53c080e7-0674-4516-b982-e40e644b55c5">Re: Law School Question</a>:
[QUOTE]Oh man...I have a lot of advice for you. 1)  The people you talked to are morons.  Unless you're trying to go into engineering, accounting, finance, or something otherwise VERY specialized, It doesn't matter what you majored in in undergrad.  <strong>It just matters that you went to college and did reasonably well in college.</strong>
Posted by loves2shop4shoes[/QUOTE]

<div>I know nothing about law school, so I will stay away from that, but I absolutely agree with the bolded part above. Don't think about the facts you learned, but rather the skills you learned in undergrad, because really I think that those are pretty similar regardless of your major (reading, interpreting, critical analysis, integrating ideas, problem solving, etc). I'm in medical school, and there are plenty of people in my class with anthropology, art history, sociology, and other similar degrees. When they ask you "Why would you even apply with a sociology degree?", I don't think they actually mean they think it was silly for you to apply. I think they would be impressed by an answer about the skills you have learned and how it would benefit them.</div><div>
</div><div>That being said, I'm all for further education, so if you do want to go to law school then I say go for it!</div>

leia1979

I also wholeheartedly agree with Shoes that some of these people must have been morons. My job has nothing to do with what I majored in (Communication).

I can understand furthering your education to make you a more attractive candidate. What do you want to do? Would something like an MBA be more appropriate?

meep2

Spend some time in the work force before you go to law school. I guarantee it will pay off. At least a year or two. You'll gain experience, an idea of what you want to do with your life, a better perspective of your capabilities (you can make it in life without a professional degree!) and, if you do want to go to law school in the end, some time out of the crowd. Due to the economy there are a ton of people going to law school and grad school right now, and there are lots of lawyers who are laid off. When the economy (eventually?) comes back, those people will be ahead of you in terms of experience, volunteer work, bar admissions, whatever. There will be a glut in the market. Wait for it to die down.

A lot of people say that they don't want to go to law school to be lawyers. I'm of the opinion that that's a mistake. It's one that I made. I learned a lot, and I learned things that I'm not sure I could have learned elsewhere, but I'm not sure that I would do it all over again. I highly recommend this blog: http://barelylegalblog.blogspot.com/
It's snarky and obviously biased, but it'll give you a much better picture than the law school industry will.

calindi

Everything Shoes said in her first post is basically how my FI feels.  He says all the time that he feels bad for the people who don't already have a job that will pay off this debt like he does since it's a brutal market right now, and there's a lot of people with HUGE law school debt who can't find a job at all - they're overqualified for a lot of jobs and just price themselves out of the market.  A lot of recently minted lawyers are doing $30-40k jobs, which might sound okay except when you have over $100k in loans, it doesn't work well.

Only go to law school if you're truly passionate about it, not as a way to beef up your resume.  It's a very expensive and risky move. If you want to just make yourself more marketable, figure out what specific thing you want to do and take classes in that subject or volunteer somewhere to get experience in that position (for instance, I think I might want to do some marketing-related stuff, so I signed on as the Marketing Director for a small non-profit - they'll get free work, I'll get free experience in my spare time).

Good luck!

Oh, and Bren, I think the main difference is the cost.  In Canada, education is more affordable, so it's worthwhile to spend the time since you won't be in a heap of debt.  In the US, you're going to start out with a law degree with over $100k in loans if you went to a decent school and didn't get a scholarship, as Shoes mentioned.  That's a really uphill battle to make it worthwhile.

heyimbren

Cate, there are law schools in Canada that cost $100k, as well as schools that may cost less than that. So it really depends on where you go here.

LizzyTish88

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_law-school-question?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:e129eac9-8fc3-436c-8b2e-e3048dd05bb3Post:81cb75c0-c8c6-45da-a671-228c4563032b">Re: Law School Question</a>:
[QUOTE]Cate, there are law schools in Canada that cost $100k, as well as schools that may cost less than that. So it really depends on where you go here.
Posted by heyimbren[/QUOTE]

Yeah, the school here costs less than that as well.

I am still toying with the idea in my head. I keep going back and forth. Thank you all for the words of wisdom, I am seriously going to consider what each and every one of you has said. Thanks again!

wuchea

As someone who is about to graduate (less than a month!) from law school, I would strongly advise that you wait it out for a little while and see if its really what you want to do. I have met many students who went to law school because they didn't know what to do next, or because it sounded like a good idea. The idea that you can get "added value" out of a JD is kind of out there for me (unless you are coming from a previous career, which it sounds like you are not). 

The job market is terrible. Most firms cut way back when the economy crashed and are still not hiring anywhere close to the numbers they were even five years ago. I am at the very top of my class, have competed successfully in moot courts and other competitions, and have all the credentials people tell you are necessary to land a job, and I have come up with nothing so far. I say this not to discourage you, but to give you a frank perspective coming from someone who should be in an optimal position right now.

The other thing to consider is the likelihood that you will get a scholarship. If your tuition is mostly (or completely) paid for, I wouldn't see the harm. Law school is really expensive, and I will be paying my student loans back until I am 50 (I'm 25). It's the equivalent of the mortgage on a nice house. It will effect how much money I can save for my wedding, how soon we can buy a house, when we will be able to afford children, etc. This is a life-altering decision. Don't make it lightly.