S/O - Babies and Work Benefits

Hazel_B

Mutley talking about health insurance in the other post got me thinking. I'm pretty clueless about the American system compared to the Canadian system.

How much does having a baby cost (regular delivery, without complications) without insurance?

How much does the average person spend with insurance?

How long is maternity leave?

desertsun

I think a lot of it depends on your area, doctor, hospital, and your insurance. It can vary.

For me, it would cost about $200 for a complications-free delivery and 2 day hospital stay. Plus a $10 copay for the first dr's visit. And that's about it.

There is a federal act that says women can have 12 weeks unpaid leave for having a child.

A lot of workplaces allow you to build up paid time off and to take short term disability so that you can get paid for at least part of that time.

AudgiePodge

I can't really answer the first 2 questions.  It'll really differ depending on who is your insurance carrier and what is covered in your plan.

I was covered under TriCare when DD was born, so we didn't have to pay anything out of pocket.  I did receive statements though.  From what I received, the total came to around $185,000.  DD spent 3 days in the NICU and this is including my week in the ICU a few days after delivery.

If you have had full time employment with your employer for a year, you're entitled to 12 weeks of FMLA leave, unpaid.  This, again, can vary by employer, but everyone is entitled to FLMA leave if they meet the requirements. 

DanieKA

I think you might get all different answers on this! There's so many different kinds of insurance and they all pay for different things. 

I have insurance, but it's out of pocket (not through work or under my parents insurance), since I just finished being a student, it covers very basic things. Were I to get pregnant it would still cost me several thousand dollars to have a baby. Doesn't seem like very much coverage, does it. Yikes! I have shiity insurance.

I think maternity leave for most companies (ETA: that are larger than 50 people and have to follow the FMLA as people have pointed out) is 6 weeks (8 weeks for c-sections), though again, it is very dependant on the company. Some women I know got 12 weeks. 

It's all very individual here. 

jemmini6

How much does having a baby cost (regular delivery, without complications) without insurance?  My friend's hospital bill just from delivery (not including pre-natal care) was about $12,000.  She had maternity insurance (not all policies cover maternity...mine doesn't) and still had to pay about $6K out of pocket.  My sister's was about $11,000 (different state) and she didn't have insurance and didn't have to pay a freaking dime (clearly, I'm still bitter with her)

How much does the average person spend with insurance?  Insurance policies are extremely varied, so I don't think there's an average.

How long is maternity leave? FMLA only requires companies over 50 employees to give 6 weeks off for maternity leave, but it does not have to be paid.  For people like myself and my friend who work in companies with less than 50 people, they can fire you as soon as you use up all your PTO.  For my friend, that was 2 weeks.  Her company "generously" (in their terms), gave her an additional 2 weeks unpaid, despite her doctor telling her she needed 6 weeks, and despite the fact that no daycare will accept infants less than 6 weeks old, but it was either go back to work, or find a new job...

TheMutleys

How much does having a baby cost (regular delivery, without complications) without insurance?

I would need to go look up my explanation of benefits to get specific numbers.  I believe that the cost at the insurance price was over $20K but we only paid $8,500 due to that being our out-of-pocket maximum.  I am not sure what it would have been without insurance.  (Also, the $20K did NOT include pre-natal care.)

It does vary by location. 

Here is a chart I found.

However, note what the chart does NOT include. 

How much does the average person spend with insurance?

It truly depends on the plan.  I think I laid out how large the discrepancies can be.

How long is maternity leave?

It depends on the employer, state, etc.

Family Medical Leave Act
This only applies to companies with more than 50 employees.

lunarsongbird

I want a homebirth with a midwife...looks like the going rate around here is $2500- http://www.birthmattersmidwifery.com/fees/all-fees-related-faqs-put-together.html
http://holistichomebirth.com/services

Hazel_B

I find this fascinating because it so varies.

Here the actual cost of having the baby is free, as long as your provincial health insurance is valid. However, even if I were to move to a different province and was within the waiting period to be eligible for the new province my current province would cover it.

In terms of maternity leave. If you've paid into the employment insurance and worked the sufficient amount of weeks you get 17 weeks of maternity leave or 52 weeks of parental leave per pregnancy. The parental leave can be split between parents. Employment insurance will pay roughly 55 percent of your weekly salary. Employers can choose to top it off and at whatever schedule they want. For example, if I were to have a baby I would get up to 52 weeks off and roughly 90 percent of my weekly salary for the full year.

desertsun

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_babies-work-benefits?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:f2858930-6669-4df9-9f79-19ff79c27841Post:3f5be420-48f7-4470-b3bc-8280e2c8ef66">Re: S/O - Babies and Work Benefits</a>:
[QUOTE]How much does having a baby cost (regular delivery, without complications) without insurance?  My friend's hospital bill just from delivery (not including pre-natal care) was about $12,000.  She had maternity insurance (not all policies cover maternity...mine doesn't) and still had to pay about $6K out of pocket.  My sister's was about $11,000 (different state) and she didn't have insurance and didn't have to pay a freaking dime (clearly, I'm still bitter with her) How much does the average person spend with insurance?  Insurance policies are extremely varied, so I don't think there's an average. How long is maternity leave?<strong> FMLA only requires companies over 50 employees to give 6 weeks off for maternity leave, but it does not have to be paid.  For people like myself and my friend who work in companies with less than 50 people, they can fire you as soon as you use up all your PTO.  For my friend, that was 2 weeks.  Her company "generously" (in their terms), gave her an additional 2 weeks unpaid, despite her doctor telling her she needed 6 weeks, and despite the fact that no daycare will accept infants less than 6 weeks old, but it was either go back to work, or find a new job...</strong>
Posted by jemmini6[/QUOTE]

This is why it's really important for people to research their insurance and workplace policies before they go off contraception. So they can try to find a new job with better coverage, or try to plan what they will do in advance. Of course unexpected things happen that are beyond your control. Babies are like that. I'm sorry your friend has had such a horrible experience, Jem. :(

jemmini6

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_babies-work-benefits?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:f2858930-6669-4df9-9f79-19ff79c27841Post:ce352956-dbf4-48bc-b008-4a097ac9b6c0">Re: S/O - Babies and Work Benefits</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: S/O - Babies and Work Benefits : This is why it's really important for people to research their insurance and workplace policies before they go off contraception. So they can try to find a new job with better coverage, or try to plan what they will do in advance. Of course unexpected things happen that are beyond your control. Babies are like that. I'm sorry your friend has had such a horrible experience, Jem. :(
Posted by desertsun[/QUOTE]


Yeah, hers was not a planned pregnancy, so she wasn't exactly where she wanted to be company wise before that happened.  But it worked out okay because her sister wasn't working at the time and provided child care.  They have gotten better with her taking time off for doctor's appointments and stuff too since she had him.  But she works in an office with mostly men (and all male mgmt), so they didn't really understand all that stuff.

I'm definitely going to be considering benefits & maternity leave when I eventually find a new job though (which will hopefully be before we have kids, lol)

leia1979

As others have said, this varies greatly on your insurance and the company you work for.

I can only speak to time off, because I helped my friend figure out what was covered (because our HR department was not helpful). In California, you get can get short term disability for 1) being really pregnant and 2) having a baby. These require a doctor signing off on the paperwork. My friend mistakenly thought she could get more time off by working until the day she delivered. Generally one gets six to eight weeks after birth, depending on how much healing time the doctor thinks you need.

Then, at any time within the baby's first year of life (and this can also count for adoptions), you can take six weeks of "bonding time." This is valid for both parents. I think this is also eligible for CA SDI (short-term disability insurance). SDI is usually up to 2/3 your salary (but with a cap, so if you make $200k a year, you won't get the full 2/3).

At the time my friend had her baby, our company let you use any PTO on the books, and I think they also gave another week or two of pay. They changed it earlier this year to be a lot better. I believe they now pay you 100% for 8 weeks.

NurseyK

Hazel, what is it like in Canada?

NurseyK

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_babies-work-benefits?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:f2858930-6669-4df9-9f79-19ff79c27841Post:5fd074ef-52f0-45fb-bedb-0e848f4806ca">Re: S/O - Babies and Work Benefits</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: S/O - Babies and Work Benefits : I just had the funniest picture in my head.  We're all sitting on the floor around Hazel, eyes wide open, saying "Yeah tell us Hazel, what's it like in Canada?"  
Posted by yaga13[/QUOTE]


::passing popcorn:

QuiltingNurse

In Canada your Provincial Health Insurance covers the costs. If I were to have a child, OHIP (in Ontario) would cover the cost of Hospital Stay, Doctors visits, c-section if necessary, etc. Doctors and Midwives are covered under OHIP. At my company there is a girl on mat leave, and she is able to work a certain amount of hours a pay period (I think she's at 8-16 hours right now) to go along with the EI she collects from being off (you can only make a certain percent of what your previous wage was or else you risk losing the EI). Since I've never had children I don't know much about how it works, but I know that the pre-natal care, delivery, and any hospital stays are covered.

PaigeMcC

I can't imagine paying to have a baby.  Like, PP said...everything here is free except  post-hospital meds and private hospital rooms...but insurance generally covers those.  
I do love our materinty/parental leave though....
EI generally covers about 55% of your income for up to 35 weeks of maternity (or paterental) leave, up to a max of $44K (ish).  What I think is cool is that you can divide it between parents so if I want to take some and FBD wants to take some...we're both covered.

paintgirl

So I hate to throw a turd in the punch bowl, but what percentage of the Canadians' income goes to taxes? That would include federal and provincial taxes, plus the federal sales taxes and GST/VAT/PST, whichever your province uses?

Do you pay less if you don't plan to have children (i.e. will never take a year of mat leave and make a portion of your income)?

Just curious...

paintgirl

And yes, I am a TOTAL *sshole.

Hazel_B

Paint, federal income tax ranges from 15 to 29 percent, each province is different but where I live in Ontario it ranges from 5 to 11 percent. In terms of sales tax, we have a 13 percent HST which is on most things but not things like food.  So, in my case I pay about 32 percent in tax prior to sales tax. I just looked up what I'd pay in California if we lived near FI's family and it'd be about 35 percent prior to sales tax.

I guess it'd be about the same, although general things are more expensive here and we have a lot of hidden taxes on things like cigarettes, alcohol, gasoline, etc.

Sorry Paint, you'd be outta luck. No exemptions that I know of.

Hazel_B

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_babies-work-benefits?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:f2858930-6669-4df9-9f79-19ff79c27841Post:fd331618-2348-4a82-8312-157eb9dc0864">Re: S/O - Babies and Work Benefits</a>:
[QUOTE]Hazel, what is it like in Canada?
Posted by NurseyK[/QUOTE]

Nursey, did you see my post a couple above yours?

paintgirl

I looked up Canadian income taxes. I already pay a good chunk in the US (self-employed so I pay my share of taxes plus the "employers" share) but I would pay about 15% more per year in Canada - plus triple the sales/VAT/PST/whatever tax that I pay now.

Over the lifetime of a career. that's A LOT of $8,500 deductibles and $44,000 in mat leave pay. I'd have to reproduce like a rabbit to break even.

(Just keepin' it real for the Americans who might be drooling over 1 year mat leaves!)   

paintgirl

And trying really hard not to get political because I got yelled at for that once (what - how do you talk about these things without stating an opinion? what's the point in that?) so maybe I should just cruise on over to another post.

desertsun

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_babies-work-benefits?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:f2858930-6669-4df9-9f79-19ff79c27841Post:8359b7a7-f15e-44de-93d4-cb76289e7600">Re: S/O - Babies and Work Benefits</a>:
[QUOTE]I looked up Canadian income taxes. I already pay a good chunk in the US (self-employed so I pay my share of taxes plus the "employers" share) but I would pay about 15% more per year in Canada - plus triple the sales/VAT/PST/whatever tax that I pay now. Over the lifetime of a career. that's A LOT of $8,500 deductibles and $44,000 in mat leave pay. I'd have to reproduce like a rabbit to break even. (Just keepin' it real for the Americans who might be drooling over 1 year mat leaves!)    :)
Posted by paintgirl[/QUOTE]

I appreciate the point you're making here, and I think you did a good job of trying to present facts and not just opinions. :)

PaigeMcC

I think both countries and systems have their advantages and disadvantages.  

But maybe that's just my Canadian-ness making me all agreeable

Hazel_B

No worries Paint! Nothing wrong with getting a bit political as long as everyone is respectful . Which you were, didn't think you were getting political at all. I was trying to keep it real for people by telling them that everything else is more expensive
 
The Canadian system certainly has its flaws. FI and I go through this all the time, the Canadian taxes really bother him. Especially the ones that he doesn't understand right away, like the price of dairy items. I get into plenty of trouble with him about my opinions, as much as he sees flaws in the Canadian system I see flaws in the American system. An outsiders perspective is good to make you look at things a bit differently.

paintgirl

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_babies-work-benefits?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:f2858930-6669-4df9-9f79-19ff79c27841Post:19d65af9-8447-410f-8f23-a0090cc99790">Re: S/O - Babies and Work Benefits</a>:
[QUOTE] like the price of dairy items. Posted by Hazel_B[/QUOTE]

OMG I have a friend who drives from Regina (the city that rhymes with fun) to North Dakota a few times a year to buy CHEESE!!! Are you guys mean to your cows up there or WHAT?! Oh I know - you don't have California cows. Because everyone knows happy cheese comes from happy cows. And happy cows come from California. You need a California!!! <img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif" border="0" alt="Laughing" title="Laughing" />

Lil B Mama

Wow....I knew that Americans had to pay out of pocket for medical care, but this seems insane to me that having a baby cost so much! I may pay more in taxes, but I'm really grateful for my free delivery and (partially) paid year off  

paintgirl

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_babies-work-benefits?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:f2858930-6669-4df9-9f79-19ff79c27841Post:2825210a-a635-4fa8-9bf8-6ac7457d7c4a">Re: S/O - Babies and Work Benefits</a>:
[QUOTE]Wow....I knew that Americans had to pay out of pocket for medical care, but this seems insane to me that having a baby cost so much! I may pay more in taxes, but I'm really grateful for my free delivery and (partially) paid year off :D 
Posted by Lil B Mama[/QUOTE]

I on the other hand would be pretty annoyed to pay for someone else's baby and paid year off. But that's just me. :)

TheMutleys

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_babies-work-benefits?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:f2858930-6669-4df9-9f79-19ff79c27841Post:adabe914-53e9-4a24-b314-a55a9d652f68">Re: S/O - Babies and Work Benefits</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: S/O - Babies and Work Benefits : I on the other hand would be pretty annoyed to pay for someone else's baby and paid year off. But that's just me. :)
Posted by paintgirl[/QUOTE]

Also, healthcare costs can be paid with pre-tax dollars.  Another benefit that some people don't think about.

We calculated the financial impact of the health benefits from DH's new job.  The amount was quite astonishing.  <img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-money-mouth.gif" border="0" alt="Money mouth" title="Money mouth" />

Do I think the American system needs an overhaul?  Definitely.  However, I don't think that there is a perfect system out there. 

sapphirebaby926

It really depends on insurance - some people have awesome insurance and others have really awful insurance. I have awful insurance. I'm currently fighting them to get them to pay the doctor that cared for Lil'Miss when she was born and was in the NICU. Apparently the company that doctor works for is out of network so my insurance doesn't want to pay the bill so I'm getting stuck with it. Right now it's looking like I will bill paying around $11,000 just for Faye's medical bills - the  hospital bill alone was over $20,000 but the insurance paid most of that - the rest is my deductible and co-insurance.

Hazel_B

Paint - The thing is everyone pays into employment insurance and it is the safety net you use when you are laid off, unemployed and in between jobs. So, it isn't just for maternity and parental leaves but just a branch of another program that already exists. They are even allowing self employed people to use it, but I don't know how that'd work....who else is there to run their business while they are off on mat leave? 

As for the free babies thing, from what I understand the American healthcare system is more costly than the Canadian one.  This (link) is interesting and is news to me. I guess you are paying more than you may have realized? I've always known that I get to pay for other people's choices

paintgirl

I'm definitely not an expert in health care costs or the economics of health care.

I DO know that I don't have insurance in the U.S. (self-employed with pre-existing conditions - waiting for residency in my state so I am guaranteed insurance - at a higher rate) so I pay all of my health care costs out of pocket.

Happily.

So it sounds like you like the Canadian system. Sounds like I like the American system (although it could use a few tweeks - mainly making it easier for insurance companies to compete across state lines).