MOH & BM

missejayne

SO after reading this for months and months I am getting fed up with the "the only they have to do is show up dresses and sober with a smile". I can get a monkey to do that.

I am NOT suggesting they plan your wedding or help you fill favors but you know what.... you pick your close friends and family to stand and support you its the least they can do; SUPPORT you.

If its a HUGE no no to plan your own parties who is suppose to do it? Bridal shower I can understand the parents but what about bachelorette?! If you really want one last night out with your girls and you are not allowed to plan it, its not right for moms to come, what is a bride to do?!

Let me say I am not MAD, my girls have been fantastic... I think people just need to know when to draw the line of what is expected and what is reasonable to ask for. Just buying a dress is the least.

I think people want help with their weddings because when you were (or are going to be) a bridesmaid you want the best for the bride. And now its your turn you want the same thing in return. That's all..

Rant done... I am ready for the comments of I am wrong and horrible to suggest anything other than what is written in Emily Post etiquette books.

Otherwise everyone have a fantastic Thursday.... and 10/9 and 10/10 girls good luck with last minute stuff!!! I can't wait to marry the man of my dreams sunday!

MyNameIsNot

You're not getting the point.  All that is required of them is to get the dress and show up looking right.

If they want to plan parties, help with the wedding, gush about the wedding, whatever, they are more than welcome to.  But friends do this because they want to do nice things for their friend, not because it is some duty that they have to do.

If your friends throw you a shower, that's wonderful.  Most WPs do that.  But if you think of it as them doing it because they were required to, you're much less appreciative than when you realize they choose to do it as a gift to you, because they love you.  

Banana's analogy to flowers on Valentine's Day rings true.  If your husband gets you flowers for V-day because he thinks that is his duty as the man in your life, it doesn't mean much.  But if he gets them because he wants to display his love and wants to see you smile, it means a lot more.

MrsMack10612

Missejayne - I am with you and in the minority.  This has been the one topic on these boards that I have really posted about since I started lurking.  Just for the record, because I used it in one of my arguments - Emily Post does in fact list what MOH & BM duties can be...so you haven't offended EP.

My additional argument to all that is that I want to know about the friends of some brides who are not happy, excited etc for their friend getting married.  My wedding is still 2 years out and all of my WP has been asking about dresses, pre-parties, how can they help etc.  Even the best man is already starting to "plot" the Bachelor party and a groomsman has been asking what he can do - so it's not just the girls,

Again, we are in the minority here and will most likely getting flamed - but I'm willing to risk it.

marissa_claire

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_moh-bm-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:4592df32-5be6-44ca-b962-3c23a8247b29Post:db6c8f5b-0679-4232-b03a-d5c437868c54">MOH & BM</a>:
[QUOTE]SO after reading this for months and months I am getting fed up with the "the only they have to do is show up dresses and sober with a smile". I can get a monkey to do that. I am NOT suggesting they plan your wedding or help you fill favors but you know what.... you pick your close friends and family to stand and support you its the least they can do; SUPPORT you. <strong>If its a HUGE no no to plan your own parties who is suppose to do it? Bridal shower I can understand the parents but what about bachelorette?!</strong> If you really want one last night out with your girls and you are not allowed to plan it, its not right for moms to come, what is a bride to do?! Let me say I am not MAD, my girls have been fantastic... I think people just need to know when to draw the line of what is expected and what is reasonable to ask for. Just buying a dress is the least. I think people want help with their weddings because when you were (or are going to be) a bridesmaid you want the best for the bride. And now its your turn you want the same thing in return. That's all.. Rant done... I am ready for the comments of I am wrong and horrible to suggest anything other than what is written in Emily Post etiquette books. Otherwise everyone have a fantastic Thursday.... and 10/9 and 10/10 girls good luck with last minute stuff!!! I can't wait to marry the man of my dreams sunday!
Posted by missejayne[/QUOTE]

Sorry not going to comment on everything because there are plenty of posts about what to expect of BMs.  I just posted on another board that I think it's a two-edged sword - I don't think brides should give their BMs a list of duties, but I also think that BMs (if I were to be one) should offer support and encouragement and whatever help they are able to offer. 

As far as the bolded section above, there was also a post on this yesterday about why it's not okay.  For one, you can't throw a party in your own honor.  The whole point of these parties is that they are to celebrate you, the bride.  How crappy does that look if someone is throwing a party in their own honor?  And with regards to a shower, how especially crappy does it look if someone throws a party in their own honor<em> and</em> expects presents?

aerinpegadrak

I've found in my experience, both personally and here on the boards, that the more a bride asks of her friends and family, the less she gets, and the less she asks of them, the more they're willing to help.

Basically, people don't like being told what to do.  Wouldn't you rather know that your friends are helping you out because they want you to be happy and to have a beautiful wedding, rather than suspecting that they're only doing it to cross a chore off their list or to keep you from flipping out on them? 

And most of the people who are offering this advice are doing so because it worked for them.  Personally, I didn't really ask anything of my bridesmaids, and so it was easy to focus on and appreciate the three girls who were all giddy about it and constantly offering to help, rather than getting hung up on the three who had lives of their own and basically just got the dress and showed up.  So the reason I personally will continue to advocate the "don't micromanage your girls, don't ask them to do a billion things for you" viewpoint is that sticking to it made my wedding as stress-free and drama-free as I could have possibly wished.  Yeah, I didn't get a bachelorette party or a shower (though that was mainly due to my family and friends being scattered all around the country), but I'm still on good terms with each and every one of my attendants.  There aren't a whole lot of brides who don't take the low-expectation approach that can say the same.

80-90% of women are more than willing and happy to do all of the "traditional" bridesmaid stuff without prompting from the bride.  But for the other 10-20% that aren't willing or able for whatever reason?  That's not a problem either, until the bride makes it one.  The simple fact of the matter is, 99.5% of the "bridesmaid drama" that we see on here is simply a matter of the bride setting her expectations too high. 

frogurt814

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_moh-bm-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:4592df32-5be6-44ca-b962-3c23a8247b29Post:50cd850b-a614-4b04-a41b-404eb7575485">Re: MOH & BM</a>:
[QUOTE] <strong>My additional argument to all that is that I want to know about the friends of some brides who are not happy, excited etc for their friend getting married.  My wedding is still 2 years out and all of my WP has been asking about dresses, pre-parties, how can they help etc.</strong>  Even the best man is already starting to "plot" the Bachelor party and a groomsman has been asking what he can do - so it's not just the girls, Again, we are in the minority here and will most likely getting flamed - but I'm willing to risk it.
Posted by kjhowd[/QUOTE]

I'm sure all of my BMs were happy for me that I was getting married, and some of them asked about details and offered to help.  Some of them didn't.  It didn't imply to me that they don't like me.  Everyone has their own lives, and I know they have plenty of their own things to think about so in no way did I expect them to be fully immersed in my wedding planning.  I didn't ask them to be BMs so that they would gush over me and my wedding plans all the time.  I asked them to be BMs because they are my best friends.

MrsMack10612

I certainly don't advocate micro-managing or giving to do lists to your WP.  My primary point is that some of the traditional expectations are not necessarily unreasonable - because Aerin - you are correct, 80-90% are going to be those happy to help, excited type folks.

My issue tends to be the stance on these boards that brides that have hopes (I'll use that rather than expectations, as I still believe that you should never EXPECT anything, anytime, wedding or no) their WP will be happy & excited and want to help is DEAD WRONG. 

As I pointed out on another thread that I posted on - all of the folks I polled about this topic - believed that those WP should be helping.  I have said before that some brides that post here are way out of line and have truly unreal expectations, but I don't think it's out of line to expect those that you consider your nearest & dearest to be happy & excited for you.

tidetravel

I think where people get confused is that happy and excited for you does not always mean willing and able to plan a party or be able to make arbitrary appointments.  Sure, my friends were happy and excited for me, and they showed that by standing up for me at MY WEDDING.  Saying that they're obviously not excited for you because they're not willing to tie ribbons on favors, or go dress shopping is a poor use of deductive logic.

Sure, I think to some degree, every bride has hopes that they place on their wedding party members.  However, when those friends don't live up to one's hopes, it's the bride's choice on how to deal with it.  She can be disappointed, because, let's face it, you can't control how you feel.  You can, however, control how you act on those feelings.  You can either a) freak out, say that your friends are not "real friends" after all, and potentially ruin a lot of relationships, or b) realize that your friends are happy for you, and will be there for you on your wedding day, regardless of whether or not you get a b-party.

MrsMack10612

I think to a degree there is a level of "agree to disagree".

I still have a problem with the level of negativity that is expressed to folks that post expressing their disappointment that WP members are not has excited as a bride might like them to be.  Please don't misunderstand, I am NOT condoning the behavior of those that come on here whining because someone didn't do X and they HAVE to because I'm the bride and it's my day.

I'm talking about those that have some legitimate complaint - promising to do something and then continually bailing; constant negativity towards anything wedding related (IMO that's unacceptable because if you a dear enough friend to be in the WP, you should be able to at least fake cheerfulness when necessary for your friend), not being involved in BM dress decisions and the biitching about the outcome.  Sometimes it's not just the bride not being a good friend - sometimes WP members aren't being good friends either.

As I also posted in a different thread - I think some of the regulars have such knee jerk reactions to this problems because 9 times out of 10 it is just a bride being demanding and micro-mananging, that those that have legit issues get caught up in the vitriol of the topic.

aerinpegadrak

I think usually that's the fault of the OP more than anything else.  If it's clear from the get-go that, say, the person is making plans and then flaking, or declining the chance to have input in the dress selection and then bitching after it's been chosen, then people will respond accordingly.  When the questions are all phrased in the same damn way, they're going to be answered in the same damn way.

And it's true that sometimes bridesmaids aren't good friends.  That's why pretty much all the regs will say that such issues (like all the ones that you listed) are friendship issues at root, and need to be addressed friend-to-friend rather than The Bride to errant servant.  I don't think anyone here has a "the bride is always wrong" mentality, but the simple fact is that most of the posts come from brides who need reality checks.

All of this is why it's so important to lurk first, because then one would get a feel for what questions are usually asked and what responses they get, and figure out that, for instance, if you explicitly say "Vent" in the post title and are just expressing your disappointment that your friendship isn't what you thought it was, you'd get a lot more sympathy than if the post is phrased in the way that 95% of the "bridesmaid dramaz" posts are.

MrsMack10612

I agree with everything you said; however, some regs still get really, well, snotty and negative when someone even mentions MOH/BM/WP drama - even when OP is clear in her post.  And God forbid an OP tries to clarify - because suddenly she's back peddling to make it look like she's not a bridezilla.  Now don't flame me for that - I understand that those that are not bridezillas are the exception not the rule - these are just things that I have observed during my lurking.

You couldn't be more right about lurking - it's what I do 99% of the time - this just happens to be one of those push button issues for me.

Cynthia1207

I also can't stand it when people say that all the bridal party needs to do is to show up on the day of your wedding looking presentable and happy.

I agree with the fact that MOHs and BMs should be present at MORE than just looking pretty at the wedding.  Engagement parties, showers and bachelorettes should be included especially for the MOH. 

Brides pick their attendants because they want to share their day with the closest people in their lives.  How can these people flake on the HONOR of being chosen?  I'm not saying they have to be on call for every single wedding issue, but they should show some interest in more than just the wedding day. 

I'm glad to know there are other people who share my opinion here.

jessienjeremy

I agree with you to a point. I dont think you should hand out a list of duties to your BM like is a math test.... but I do agree that they have more duties than to just show up sober to my wedding.  My Bm's are great. Always wanting to help and make sure I have the shower and B party I want... I havent asked anything of them they are just great friends who want to help me any way I need. BC I did the same thing for them when they were getting married.

jessienjeremy

Well if you go to the knot and look up the duties of the MOH and BM.. then I guess the knot is out their *** mind too.....

TheCranberry

What a hot topic today!!

I posted in another thread, but I agree with you.  If your friend is close enough to be a BM, she should take an interest in the wedding just as she's taken an interest in your life in the past.  I also agree with the PPs who say that the bride should not DEMAND help or pre-wedding parties, etc.

I guess one question we could ask posters who post on this subject is how the BM they're upset with behaved before all of the wedding planning.  Did she help you shop for cocktail dresses or first date clothes, did she plan birthday parties or come over early to help prepare for your dinner party, did she ask about how your job search or new life in your new city was going?  If not, why would you expect her to be different in the wedding process?  If she did do all of this, what has changed now?  Are you making demands on her?  Are you only talking about the wedding with her?  Does she have a new baby?  A new job she's trying to figure out?

I do think that the hard line (BM only shows up for the wedding in the dress) takes it too far, but I understand the point you're making.  I'm having 6 BM's for my wedding, and I'd be very disappointed if none of them planned a shower or b-party for me or if none of them expressed an interest in the planning process.  I definitely have not demanded anything of them though.  I did send them a BM contract that someone posted on here though that mandated certain things like no gaining weight, no getting pregnant, etc.  We got a laugh out of that!

jessienjeremy

Also, Emily Post passed away in 1960.... not to be offensive but times have changed. 

Every site you look at says something different. I think in the end its a matter of personal opinion. However, if your BM or MOH does not feel it is her responsibility then do not force it upon her.

trix1223

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_moh-bm-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:4592df32-5be6-44ca-b962-3c23a8247b29Post:a4a48501-e6e0-426e-b6dc-8eb96a2796e3">Re: MOH & BM</a>:
[QUOTE]Thought this was interseting Bridesmaids <a href="http://www.bridesmaid101.com/bridesmaid_duties.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.bridesmaid101.com/bridesmaid_duties.html</a> MOH <a href="http://www.bridesmaid101.com/maid_of_honor_duties.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.bridesmaid101.com/maid_of_honor_duties.html</a>
Posted by jessienjeremy[/QUOTE]

You know what I found "interesting" about those links?  That the very first thing you see what you click on them is the bright red link to their party store to buy things for the b-party.

OF COURSE they're telling you that you have to do "thus and so" as a member of the WP.  Unless you buy the junk their advertisers push, they're out of business.

Many need to learn the difference between a sales pitch and etiquette.

TheCranberry

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_moh-bm-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:4592df32-5be6-44ca-b962-3c23a8247b29Post:d5a63b95-5394-4592-bb0f-523250888592">Re: MOH & BM</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: MOH & BM : I am assuming you were joking about the contract?!!??  And someone actually did that in all seriousness?  I would have sent it back shredded with a note explaining that I would be happy to be in attendance at the wedding but that is all thank you.
Posted by jcbsjr[/QUOTE]

I did send it to them, but I was joking about having them sign it!  The contract is a joke (I assume), and someone posted it here for a laugh.  Sadly some of the things on it are posts that we have here.  I will see if I can post it.

tidetravel

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_moh-bm-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:14Discussion:4592df32-5be6-44ca-b962-3c23a8247b29Post:51573af3-376b-47a7-85fc-5a8d4aa9176c">Re: MOH & BM</a>:
[QUOTE]Also,<strong> Emily Post passed away in 1960.... not to be offensive but times have changed</strong>.  Every site you look at says something different. I think in the end its a matter of personal opinion. However, if your BM or MOH does not feel it is her responsibility then do not force it upon her.
Posted by jessienjeremy[/QUOTE]

Well, if you don't want Emily Post, how about Miss Manners.  As far as I know, she's still alive:

<a href="http://snipurl.com/19xaek">http://snipurl.com/19xaek</a> 

<a href="http://lifestyle.msn.com/Relationships/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=8319035">http://lifestyle.msn.com/Relationships/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=8319035</a>

jessienjeremy

Well I looked up her bio.

You cant tell me that if you asked your BF to be a BM or MOH and she said

" Ok but I am not going to any showers and not going to help with anything. Just tell me the dress I need to get and what time I need to be at the wedding"

That you wouldnt have your feelings hurt.


Lets just agree to disagree....

TheCranberry

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_moh-bm-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:4592df32-5be6-44ca-b962-3c23a8247b29Post:d5a63b95-5394-4592-bb0f-523250888592">Re: MOH & BM</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: MOH & BM : I am assuming you were joking about the contract?!!??  And someone actually did that in all seriousness?  I would have sent it back shredded with a note explaining that I would be happy to be in attendance at the wedding but that is all thank you.
Posted by jcbsjr[/QUOTE]

Here's the contract:

<a href="http://www.abajournal.com/files/bridesmaidscontract.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.abajournal.com/files/bridesmaidscontract.pdf</a>

jessienjeremy

Oh wow... that looks like something straight off bridezillas...

I would hope if my friend gave me that she was joking..

My favorite is the last one.. I will not attempt to out do the bride in anyway....

Ohhh cracks me up...

lalap69

Treating your friends like FRIENDS doesn't go out of date.  No one is saying that your bms CAN'T throw you parties and help with your planning.  But they don't HAVE to.  I don't understand why this is so controversial.

TK also thinks it's a great idea for you to buy your bm's shirts that say "Bridesmaid" across the front as their WP gift.  It's not because TK thinks your friends will just loooooove this gift, it's because it's a product offered by their advertisers.

MrsMack10612

Emily Post may have died in 1960, but her family (neices, nephews, grandchildren etc) have kept up the family tradition.

There is an online site for her updated etiquette rules.  They do generally try to keep up with changing times & social norms.

It is definintely an agree to disagree situation - we have all grown up in different areas with different ideas of how weddings & WPs are.  It doesn't mean we are wrong.

And I really wish some of the regs who hold the "show up, where the dress" line would let go of the whole wedding industry blame game.  Some of the duties discussed have been around a lot longer than the "wedding industry". 

VRL

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_chit-chat_moh-bm-1?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:14Discussion:4592df32-5be6-44ca-b962-3c23a8247b29Post:788ff632-ef55-49c0-aadd-e31b7c9fe948">Re: MOH & BM</a>:
[QUOTE]I've found in my experience, both personally and here on the boards, that the more a bride asks of her friends and family, the less she gets, and the less she asks of them, the more they're willing to help. Basically, people don't like being told what to do.  Wouldn't you rather know that your friends are helping you out because they want you to be happy and to have a beautiful wedding, rather than suspecting that they're only doing it to cross a chore off their list or to keep you from flipping out on them?  And most of the people who are offering this advice are doing so because it worked for them .  Personally, I didn't really ask anything of my bridesmaids, and so it was easy to focus on and appreciate the three girls who were all giddy about it and constantly offering to help, rather than getting hung up on the three who had lives of their own and basically just got the dress and showed up.  So the reason I personally will continue to advocate the "don't micromanage your girls, don't ask them to do a billion things for you" viewpoint is that sticking to it made my wedding as stress-free and drama-free as I could have possibly wished.  Yeah, I didn't get a bachelorette party or a shower (though that was mainly due to my family and friends being scattered all around the country), but I'm still on good terms with each and every one of my attendants.  There aren't a whole lot of brides who don't take the low-expectation approach that can say the same. 80-90% of women are more than willing and happy to do all of the "traditional" bridesmaid stuff without prompting from the bride.  But for the other 10-20% that aren't willing or able for whatever reason?  That's not a problem either, until the bride makes it one.  The simple fact of the matter is, 99.5% of the "bridesmaid drama" that we see on here is simply a matter of the bride setting her expectations too high. 
Posted by aerinpegadrak[/QUOTE]

This, hands down, is the most straight forward explanation I've read so far RE: 'Why do MOH and BMs only have to show up and wear a dress.'