Moms and Maids

FIL"s taking advantage?

Hey all, I tried posting this in the other forum, although for some reason it's not showing up. This thread has to do with FIL's. I couldn't find a board focused on inlaws in general. Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong. Thanks.

I really need to vent. This has been building up inside of me for months. I will eventually explode.  This is very long, I’ll try my best do describe the situation in an understanding manner.

So here goes.....
 My fiancé’s parents have 7 boys all which are adults. His parents are currently struggling financially.

Here is where it all started...... FFIL retired when he was around 40 if not sooner. He is now 58. Over the years FMIL brought in income by taking in foster children, babysitting, and working as a cashier. Another source of income is taking in rent from the still at home boys including my FI at $400 per son. Their total current rent intake is 1,600 not being claimed on taxes, $2000 a month babysitting ($500per month per child). Right there is $3600 a month with house payments only being $600 a month. 

Four years ago my FFIL asked my fiancé to take out a loan with the parents promising to pay him back. (At the time I didn’t know this). My FI felt obligated to help as he thought it was to help with house payments. Later on he found out it was for a trailer. Another brother was asked to loan 10,000 which he did (wife didn’t know at the time either).  Then there was the eldest brother who was asked to borrow another 10,000 (his wife knew about it and put a stop to it). On top of all this some how the parents have access to 3 of the boys bank accounts (taking money out for personal use).  FFIL finally sold the trailer and spent that 10,000 including another 10,000 from the other son, and got another 10,000 somewhere else to start a jewellery business, instead of paying the loan off for my FI.  

Currently the FIL’s are telling the sons that they “filed” for bankruptcy. Not only are the sons paying for rent they are paying $50 each here and there for groceries. My FI had to pay $100 for pizza (which he doesn’t even like or eat), his dad over ordered. His dad needed glasses so for his birthday the boys all gave him money for new glasses. He pissed the money away on crap. They have no working vehicle so the one brother offered to buy his mother a used van “FFIL heard about this and said “take your F*#&%* van and shove it, I won’t be seen in a van”. I’m sick of my FI being on demand to drive them places. 

Before all of this “money situation happened” FIL’s said they would pay for the liquor for the wedding. Now they cancelled out and are throwing demands left and right of what “they want”. My FI is so far in debt now due to the loan and his own school payments that we can’t get a mortgage for a house. (Credit gone bad). 

All of us wifey’s  feel the boys are being taken advantage of. The father won’t get off his butt to get a job apparently he’s got a “disability”. Even though he lifts weights for 2 hours which he got my FI for buy for him. And brags how he can do “squats”. They won’t seek financial help either. We girls are also sick of the boy’s father telling us girls that “it’s not our fault that your parents make more money than us” and “Maybe the boys should go get money from your parents”. Yes our parents are financially better off because they work hard and save money (and no we don’t brag about money). Now that us wifey’s discuss the situation, we are getting snapped at a constantly by his parents. We discuss it with our wonderful FI’s and husbands, but they are too kind hearted to say no when help is asked by the parents. The boys were also brought up to “respect and support” their parents. 

Eventually when all the boys move out there will be a lot less income coming in and no form of transportation with a 1,400 sq ft house... then what happens? 

Are we over reacting? help? advice? Anything is appreciated! We are struggling with the sons feeling guilty that we think we need to take matters into our own hands.

Re: FIL"s taking advantage?

  • banana468banana468 member
    Knottie Warrior 25000 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    edited December 2011
    I'd recommend some serious conseling for the two of you.  Plus some credit counseling for you and your FI.

    What your FILs are doing isn't just taking advantage.  They're guilting their children into thinking that they have to do these things that no child should have to do.

    But the only way to get this behavior to stop is for people to stop giving them money.  And in the meantime, hopefully counseling for the two of you plus talking to a legit credit counselor can help get your FI's finances back on track so that you two can start off life treating your children better than he has been treated.
  • melissamc2melissamc2 member
    1000 Comments
    edited December 2011
    My answer may not be the most popular, but here goes:

    First of all, what they bring in a month isn't anyone's business, ultimately, and I don't see anything wrong with charging adult children a reasonable amount of rent to live there.  So, those two things don't really factor in to all of this as far as I'm concerned.

    While I definitely agree that asking their children to take out loans, give them money, and things of that nature is completely unnecessary, they aren't "making" anyone do anything - their sons are willingly doing it and are willingly being deceptive about it to their significant others.  That is a far bigger issue, to me, than anything regarding the parents themselves.  Your relationship isn't built on fiances (although they are definitely important) - but mutual respect and trust is a must.

    The parents have no reason to change because their children enable their irresponsibility.  The first thing that needs to happen is them moving away from home (assuming they are all adults, which your post seems to indicate).  They also need to prioritize their lives.  Right now, it sounds as if the women in their lives are taking a backseat to their parents.  While it shouldn't come down to "choosing," it SHOULD come down to building a solid foundation in their relationships.  If they feel the need to hide things they do from their wives/fiancees/girlfriends - then there is something very wrong.

    I'd have a long talk with your fiance and remind him that he's not a small child who has to do as he is told, nor is his parents' financial stability his responsibility - and that I would not tolerate being deceived and, essentially, lied to.  You also can't always have your own fiancial situation compromised, or ruined, by unknown transactions taking place.  To top it off, this isn't the set up you want your own children seeing as "normal" and "acceptable." 

    Some people are just always going to allow themselves to be kids, when it comes to their parents.  I don't consider those people marriage material for these very reasons.  The first thing you may need to find out is if he WANTS to change it.  That's a far better beginning to a solution to this than all of you wives and fiances and girlfriends getting together and talking about it.  No good will really coome of that.  Obviously everyone is aware of the issue, so passively "ganging up" isn't going to help - but I could see where it very well may hurt, even more than it has so far.

    Good luck.  It's not an enviable position to be in at all.  I believe you must truly love him, because I could never put up with it.
    10-10-10
  • quotequeenquotequeen member
    2500 Comments
    edited December 2011
    I highly, highly recommend that you put off the wedding until you have resolved this issue between you and your FI.  Your FI might need counseling to come to grips with the fact that his parents are using him and his siblings and the way he has been treated is not normal.  He needs to vow never again to keep anything from you regarding giving his parents money.  He also needs to move out of his parents' house yesterday and put some distance between himself and them.  Then he needs to tell them that he will no longer be enabling their irresponsibility.  Then he needs to follow through on not giving in to their demands for money.

    If he can't do all of those things, your life together is destined to be a financial trainwreck.
    Married 10/2/10
  • tldhtldh member
    2500 Comments
    edited December 2011
    I agree with quote queen and banana.  Put off the wedding and get counseling (relationship and credit). 

    I would only add that they are also committing tax fraud by not reporting their full income.  When they are audited (and they will be) the IRS may start taking at look at all the sons' tax returns also.  Even if you have done nothing wrong, an audit is still a scary PITA.

    Finally, if FFIL is disabled, why hasn't he applied for social security disability? The system is slow but not 18 years slow.  If he "retired" because of an injury (and you didn't give us his reason) most state's workers comp systems have job retraining available for those permanently unable to return to their profession.

    one more thing: if they are coming to you asking for money, what they bring in every month is absolutely your business.  You are giving a loan and have the right to the same financial information that a bank would request.
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  • edited December 2011
    The only way to deal with this is to DEAL with it.  You and your fiance need to have a frank conversation and an agreement...if you need counseling go and get it.  You cannot go into a marriage with any hope of succeeding unless you do it with arms linked and headed in the same direction.  You also cannot mortgage your future to pay the bills for people who are CLEARLY taking advantage of the love of their children.

    It's a deal breaker honey...fix this now.
    My baby girl is a married woman...and now my baby girl HAS a baby girl. Time unfolds in such an amazing way. I've been blessed!
  • mkruparmkrupar member
    5000 Comments Third Anniversary 5 Love Its
    edited December 2011
    This is a serious situation that needs fixing. I agree with counseling. This would be a total deal breaker for me. Your FI and brothers do not owe their parents anything for raising them. That was their responsibility when they decided to have 7 (SEVEN!) children. You and the other wives/Fis busting in there and taking charge won't fix the situation. All of you, individually, need to have a conversation with your respective husbands/fis and make it clear that this is not acceptable. You all should be the priority in their lives, not mommy and daddy. The only way this will stop is if these boys man-up and move out.
    image
  • AutumnFairAutumnFair member
    Eighth Anniversary 1000 Comments
    edited December 2011
    I do not think you or the other ladies are over reacting this is a serious issue that needs to be dealt with. But really, a group effort isn't exactly needed, each of you are in charge of your guy so focus on each one not as a group. 

    I totally agree with banana. You two (and would have you recommend this to the other ladies in your family) need counseling, This is not normal behavior and unless its brought to light by a third party I think your going to be stuck with the FILs taking advantage of your FI and his brothers.

    Also if your FI or any of the other guys live there, they need to move out. There was a post on here a month or so ago dealing with the exact same issue (parents taking advantage of their kids). The best way to stop giving them power (and money) over your FI is for him to move out. 

    Personally, the FFIL sounds like a LLL, who is not only taking advantage of his own children but his wife. He sounds toxic and I really feel bad for a the sons involve for them to be manipulated by their parents. If FFIL doesn't want to work he better start to learn to downsize because eventually your FI and his brothers are going to get sick (or wise up) of feeling guilty and stop giving their parents money. Your FI and his brothers are going to need a lot of mental strength to stand up to their parents, so really cheer them on once they see the light because I know it will not be easy for thing for them to do. 

    Good luck, I feel very bad for your FI and his brothers situation. 
  • edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_fils-taking-advantage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:357Discussion:8a01493f-3703-4ce4-9018-6027ca7edfffPost:4327fdad-7869-488f-8bad-5d740ac680ab">Re: FIL"s taking advantage?</a>:
    [QUOTE]I'd recommend some serious conseling for the two of you.  Plus some credit counseling for you and your FI. What your FILs are doing isn't just taking advantage.  They're guilting their children into thinking that they have to do these things that no child should have to do. But the only way to get this behavior to stop is for people to stop giving them money.  And in the meantime, hopefully counseling for the two of you plus talking to a legit credit counselor can help get your FI's finances back on track so that you two can start off life treating your children better than he has been treated.
    Posted by banana468[/QUOTE]

    This...and I agree that really it isn't any of your business what they bring in per month or how they spend it. That being said I don't agree with how they have treated your FI or how they spend their money. FI needs to absolutely stop giving money or helping. It seems like it is time to completely move out and end the financial ties of shared bank accounts. He will not be able to get his credit back on track until this is done. I feel for you too. If you two are connected by marriage this will only bring down your credit as well. If anything should happen to him, you will be responsible for his/his parents' debit. 

    Credit counseling and couples counseling are needed here. He needs to work on cutting ties with his parents financially while getting things back on track and not bringing you down.
    Anniversary
  • aerinpegadrakaerinpegadrak member
    10000 Comments 5 Love Its Combo Breaker
    edited December 2011
    As I said on CC, your FI is the only one who can break this cycle.  If he's not willing or able to do that, then you have to decide if you're willing to put up with this for the rest of your life.
    This is a neglected planning bio.
    This is a belated married bio, with no reviews yet because I'm lazy.

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    Sometimes I feel like people think that brides are delicate little flower princesses who get all dressed up and pretty for one special moment of their dreams, when really they're just normal people who just happen to be getting married. Things shouldn't have to be sugar-coated for grown-ass women. -mstar284
  • zitiqueenzitiqueen member
    Knottie Warrior 2500 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_fils-taking-advantage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:357Discussion:8a01493f-3703-4ce4-9018-6027ca7edfffPost:59e7656b-45ec-4f6c-88cd-4726fae9c25f">Re: FIL"s taking advantage?</a>:
    [QUOTE]As I said on CC, your FI is the only one who can break this cycle.  If he's not willing or able to do that, then you have to decide if you're willing to put up with this for the rest of your life.
    Posted by aerinpegadrak[/QUOTE]

    And if you decide you are willing to put up with it for the rest of your life, once you say "I do" you never get to complain about it ever again.

    <em>Ever. Again.

    </em>Remember that.
  • edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_fils-taking-advantage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:357Discussion:8a01493f-3703-4ce4-9018-6027ca7edfffPost:70f4c2c6-4a96-4618-ae66-7970da63c5d7">Re: FIL"s taking advantage?</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: FIL"s taking advantage? : And if you decide you are willing to put up with it for the rest of your life, once you say "I do" you never get to complain about it ever again. Ever. Again. Remember that.
    Posted by zitiqueen[/QUOTE]

    ABSOLUTELY!!!!
    My baby girl is a married woman...and now my baby girl HAS a baby girl. Time unfolds in such an amazing way. I've been blessed!
  • ~moonshine~~moonshine~ member
    10 Comments
    edited December 2011

    Hey everyone thanks for your responses.


    However for my defence of the few responses, I do feel it is my business. His parents very openly talk about what they take in (income). This is how I know they don't pay certain taxes due to complaining. My fiancé made it my business when he came to me and told me about the loan. As others have mentioned on here that in reality his parents will quit making payments. I highly doubt that anyone if they see their fiancé or a loved one get taken advantage of will just sit back and do nothing? Maybe I'm wrong?

    In response to majority of you on here... I agree and this is what has happened so far.

    My fiancé and I have talked; he got the loan papers (in his name) and is transferring banks for lower interest. He told his parents (his choice) that his rent money is going towards the loan and that’s final. I am proud of him for saying this because in all fair his parents shouldn't be charging him rent when they owe him 10,000 in the first place!!!

    I made it clear that once we move out this is not happening anymore without first discussing it as a couple. He assured me that it is not going to happen and that he wants me to deal with all of the finances. If his parents ask him for money he's going to tell them to ask me since I’m the one handling the finances.

    I think this is a start. And I must say I’m very proud of him for sticking up for himself!

    I appreciate everyone’s opinions/advice, thanks!

  • melissamc2melissamc2 member
    1000 Comments
    edited December 2011
    YOU moved into their home, as well?

    Maybe they keep doing this to TRY and irritate everyone enough to get the Hell out of their house and act like adults?
    10-10-10
  • ~moonshine~~moonshine~ member
    10 Comments
    edited December 2011

    "Maybe they keep doing this to TRY and irritate everyone enough to get the Hell out of their house and act like adults?"7

    Before jumping to silly conclusions....

    How does taking advantage of them make them move out and be adults? Seriously they can't afford to move out when being robbed of their money! The sons are the ADULTS in the family their parents are the KIDS.


    I'm not living with his family! I'm living with my family. We are both trying to save to money to get a place of our own. This is the best for us due to being students.

  • melissamc2melissamc2 member
    1000 Comments
    edited December 2011
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_fils-taking-advantage?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:357Discussion:8a01493f-3703-4ce4-9018-6027ca7edfffPost:84090230-7b98-455f-862e-dbce873fafae">Re: FIL"s taking advantage?</a>:
    [QUOTE]"Maybe they keep doing this to TRY and irritate everyone enough to get the Hell out of their house and act like adults?"7 Before jumping to silly conclusions.... How does taking advantage of them make them move out and be adults? Seriously they can't afford to move out when being robbed of their money! The sons are the ADULTS in the family their parents are the KIDS. I'm not living with his family! I'm living with my family. We are both trying to save to money to get a place of our own. This is the best for us due to being students.
    Posted by ~moonshine~[/QUOTE]



    What I was saying (I didn't think I needed to explain the sarcasm in that reply, but I suppose I do?) is that their sons need to GET OUT and be adults, not children.

    The parents can't "take advantage" of them if they don't WILLINGLY go along with it.

    Sure, the parents sound like slightly unethical opportunists, but the sons are the ones who are giving in.  Ultimately, this is your fiance's (and his siblings') "fault," because they keep handing their money over.  You can place the blame on the parents all you want, but no one can "make" an adult do anything with their money.  They choose to do it.


    As for you living there, I apologize if I misinterpreted what you wrote.  When you said "when we move out," it seemed to lean toward the two of you moving out from where you are now.

    The best advice I can give in this situation is for you and your fiance to move in together right now.  If  you truly cannot afford to do that (he'd have to cut his parents off, of course), then you're not really in a financial position to be planning a wedding, either.

    I don't mean to sound harsh to you, I really don't, I just think you need to quit placing all of the blame on his parents.  They can't take what they aren't be handed.

    Good luck.
    10-10-10
  • ~moonshine~~moonshine~ member
    10 Comments
    edited December 2011

    I apologise too, all honesty i think we are both on the same agreement on some topics. Although after all it's the internet, it can get confusing to understand what the person really means.

    Ps I read your purposal story, I met my fiance on a online chat site too. Its wonderful how you get to learn who the person is in the inside before seeing them for the first time.

    Hope your upcoming wedding is everything you dreamed of.

  • edited December 2011
    It's wonderful to live with your parents to save money.  But it doesn't sound like your fiance is saving money by living with his parents.

    And it's not that he can't afford to move out.  He cannot afford to stay, or his parents will keep taking his money.  His rent money should not be going toward cleaning up his parents' financial messes, it should be going toward his own rent somewhere, to establish a new and independent life.

    If I were you, I would think long and hard about financial counseling, and maybe even general counseling.  Your fiance is not liable for his parents' financial troubles.  I understand that he feels a sense of obligation, but it is not as if they made one bad decision and need help once.  They have a well-documented history of making bad decisions with money.

    Also, your fiance needs his own bank account, right away.  He should not tell his parents where it is.  If I found out that my fiance's parents were helping themselves to my fiance's money just for fun and games, I can't put into words how irate I'd be - with them, for doing it, and with him, for enabling them by not getting a new account as soon as he realized that was going on.
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