What?

amber2123

I'm Pagan.  Now that that's out of the way, this might make more sence.  My BM are the four closest people in my life.  I asked them to be my BM and told them that they would need to "call corners" durring the ceremony.  All of them agreed and said they would love to.(is that the right form of to?) Anyway, fast forward to yesterday.  I was talking to one of my BM and she was asking questions about the wedding.  I was explaining certen parts and she said "That's stupid, why can't you do things normal?"  I was very offended by that and told her it was part of my religion.  She told me that she can't believe I TRICKED her into being in a Pagan ritual...like we were going to sacrifice a lamb or something!(we don't do animal sacrifices)  I said "if you feel that stongly, I understand if you need to drop out." Today, on my way to work, I get a phone call from my mom saying she's offended that I'M so close-minded about other people religion, and I need to suck it up and see if my BM will come back into my wedding party.  WTF??? Am I alone in thinking that this is total BS?

rknox88

First of all, yes that was the correct form of "to" however, if we want to get picky don't end sentences with a preposition

As for the BM situation, if you fully explained to her what being in a Pagan wedding would entail then you did your part.  If she has now decided that she doesn't feel comfortable with that it sucks for you, but try to respect her decision.

Your mom needs to butt out.

AutumnFair

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_what?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:357Discussion:d4171c8c-e9cd-4e28-9152-e0db5b0209ecPost:07651cc3-e902-4098-8aba-6b55e7d4e7f5">What?</a>:
[QUOTE]I'm Pagan.  Now that that's out of the way, this might make more sence.  My BM are the four closest people in my life.  I asked them to be my BM and told them that they would need to "call corners" durring the ceremony.  All of them agreed and said they would love to.(is that the right form of to?) Anyway, fast forward to yesterday.  I was talking to one of my BM and she was asking questions about the wedding.  I was explaining certen parts and she said <strong>"That's stupid, why can't you do things normal?"</strong>  I was very offended by that and told her it was part of my religion.  She told me that she can't believe I TRICKED her into being in a Pagan ritual...like we were going to sacrifice a lamb or something!(we don't do animal sacrifices)  I said "if you feel that stongly, I understand if you need to drop out." <u>Today, on my way to work, I get a phone call from my mom saying she's offended that I'M so close-minded about other people religion, and I need to suck it up and see if my BM will come back into my wedding party. </u> WTF??? Am I alone in thinking that this is total BS?
Posted by amber2123[/QUOTE]

<div>The only closed minded person in this situation is your friend (and your mom). What she did is wrong and mean. If I were in your shoes, I would wait awhile and see if the "friend" calls you and decides on if she wants to part take or not. Hopefully, she gives an apology for what she said because that is definitely out of line.</div><div>
</div><div>As for your mom, tell her to stay out of it and its none of her business. You have every right to pick the way you want to be married and if people can't accept that to bad. </div>

lalap69

I think you have every right to be offended that your "friend" called your religion stupid.  I also don't think your mom has any business calling you up like that.  1) You're an adult and 2) Did your friend go running crying to your mom or what?

Normally I'm against brides bringing up the idea of a BM dropping up, but I think under the circumstances it was understandable.  Insulting your religious ceremony is very different than insulting your wedding colours.

However, if the friendship is important to you, I'd suggest that you call your friend up and explain to her why what she said to you was so offensive, and see if she wants to apologize.

TheCranberry

Did your friend call your mom and tattle?  You are definitely not being closed minded.  You should not change your wedding ceremony to make someone else comfortable.  It's one thing if your friend is uncomfortable participating in your ceremony but to call your beliefs "stupid" and suggest that the rituals are not normal is offensive to you.  Your mom should also be offended on your behalf!  I think you need to have a talk with your friend.  If she doesn't respect your beliefs, can you really continue to be friends with her?

amber2123

She called my mom and tattled...and lied!  I called my mom just a bit ago to figure all this out and found out that I said she had to convert or be kicked out of the WP.  I must have been really drunk at 8 in the morning while watching my son at the park

Snippylynn

Man, if your life isn't just one endless, weird drama after another.

AutumnFair

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_what?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:357Discussion:d4171c8c-e9cd-4e28-9152-e0db5b0209ecPost:aaba9dec-5d36-4f69-9405-ec2d2894e187">Re: What?</a>:
[QUOTE]She called my mom and tattled...and lied!  I called my mom just a bit ago to figure all this out and found out that I said she had to convert or be kicked out of the WP.  I must have been really drunk at 8 in the morning while watching my son at the park
Posted by amber2123[/QUOTE]

<div>It actually blows my mind that she tattled to your mom. Like I said before, stick to your guns if your "friend" doesn't want to respect your wishes in how your ceremony is being perform she can decline the role as BM. Once again, I hope she comes to her senses and realize that her comments were way out of line and needs to apologize for HER closed minded thinking. </div>

lalap69

Just saw your other post.  http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_nervous-etiquette-question

So...Is this friend complaining about being a part of your second wedding ceremony or your first?

Snippylynn

Also, could you seriously just use some spell-check?  Your posts are always filled with ridiculous misspellings.

amber2123

I'm only having one....I'm not the OP on that one.  Thanks for failing!

Snippylynn

LOL!  Yeah, OP's only having one Viking-Scottish Pagan mishmash wedding with a wedding shower WITHOUT GIFTS the day after.

ichellemay1

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_what?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:357Discussion:d4171c8c-e9cd-4e28-9152-e0db5b0209ecPost:bdfe19a3-e9ba-4a57-b4e6-0c121c7efeca">Re: What?</a>:
[QUOTE]First of all, yes that was the correct form of "to" however, if we want to get picky don't end sentences with a preposition :) As for the BM situation, if you fully explained to her what being in a Pagan wedding would entail then you did your part.  If she has now decided that she doesn't feel comfortable with that it sucks for you, but try to respect her decision. Your mom needs to butt out.
Posted by rknox88[/QUOTE]

This.

marinabreeze

To what degree did you explain to BM the nature of the ceremony and her role in it before she first agreed to be a part of it? 

If you did, and she then later reneged, that's plain wrong on her part.  If you only mentioned it in brief (or didn't ask individually), then I can see her deciding when she thought about it or received all the information that it wasn't compatible with her own beliefs. 

Either way, how she went about voicing her issues was very immature (saying "that's stupid, why can't you do things normal?" and then tattling to your mom).  This is your ceremony, and you and your FI should be able to conduct it in accordance with your beliefs.  If this is at odds with your friend's beliefs, then she has the option of not participating. 

As far as asking her back in, if she had been more mature about her issues, I would be more apt to say yes (with the stipulation that your ceremony plans won't change).  However, her conduct concerning the situation I don't think merits you asking her back in.

Manwaithiel

I feel like, from the way she reacted, you basically conned her into doing something she may or may not have agreed with. I doubt she just suddenly started thinking "Hey, this is stupid! I don't want to do it anymore." I'm not saying calling your belief system stupid is a great way to handle it. I'm saying that that reaction sounds like the reply of someone who feels she has been mislead.

Just sayin'.

mysticl

Did she already know you are a Pagan?  Did she know you were getting married in your faith?  If the answer to these questions is "yes" then by agreeing to be a bridesmaid she was already agreeing to participate in a Pagan ritual. 

mysticl

Stage Manager, I see a religious wedding ceremony as a religious ritual.  And therefore the wedding party are participants by standing up and bearing witness.  I agree that there are degrees of what may be expressed/practiced in a ceremony, however, this BM had agreed to be in the wedding, she had to expect something Pagan would take place.

aerinpegadrak

But religion usually implies organization, and my understanding is that most Pagan faiths don't have that, at least not nearly to the degree of other religions.  And again, "Pagan" is kind of a blanket term, and someone who isn't educated about other faiths probably wouldn't have any idea of what goes into them, especially if she refers to the Christian-style ceremony as "normal".

Manwaithiel

I'm sorry, but I just don't believe the BM suddenly started just thinking, "This sucks, I don't want to do it." If you're going to do something out of the norm, and like it or not amber, what you are doing is very different from the traditional BM role, then you need to explain that clearly to the people you are asking. Especially if you just said, "Will you be my BM?" which is exactly what I think you said because you refer to the girls as BMs all the time. If they had special duties that weren't just standing up there looking pretty, then you should have made that clear. And I seriously doubt you were clear and you won't come back to tell me otherwise.

Manwaithiel

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_moms-maids_what?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:357Discussion:d4171c8c-e9cd-4e28-9152-e0db5b0209ecPost:6f962054-f0f6-4a92-a433-c348bd140ad8">Re: What?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: What? : Please re-read my post above you.  I have taken place is PAGAN weddings where the BMs did not participate in anything specifically ritualistic.  I don't care if you consider standing up there "ritual" or not.  Come talk to me when you've pressed yourself to a knifepoint and pledged perfect love and perfect trust to ensure that you enter with a pure heart and pure intentions and then actively participated in holding the energy of a quarter for 15 or 20 minutes.  Then you can tell me why none of that is any different than standing up in front of a bunch of people doing and saying nothing. Edited it because my original wording made it sound like I was threatened with aknife, lol. ETA
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

Say, wha?

OP, just like anyone who asks someone to be a part of their Christian wedding should be prepared for someone to turn them down if they have strong views against that "ritual", you should be prepared for your BMs to feel the same way. Especially if you weren't fully forthcoming with details about what they would be doing.

marleylikeair

FWIW, I was a BM recently for a very good friend. The ceremony was Lutheran. I'm far from Lutheran. She knows that and wanted me in her wedding anyway because she loves me like a sister. I sucked it up and let the religious aspect roll off of my shoulder because I love her like a sister. I was even part of the ceremony as well--I sang two songs. I think it's okay to participate in something contrary to what you believe as long as you do so with respect and are comfortable with what you're doing. So I understand your frustration with her.

OP, no matter what your religious beliefs or those of your friends, you have every right to be hurt that she would drop out because of them. But at the same time, you have to respect it if she doesn't want to take part in something she doesn't believe in.

As far as your mom is concerned...she shouldn't have called you and told you what to do. Your friend also shouldn't have called your mom about this. If I were you, I'd try to find the right time to tell each of them--separately--to tell them you were uncomfortable with those actions.

As for your BM, it sounds like she wasn't expecting to be so integral to the ceremony and is a little freaked out. I suggest letting it sit for a couple days, then calling and talking to her about it again. If she doesn't want to participate in the ritual, can she still be a BM who stands up for you but doesn't do much else in the ceremony? It seems a little harsh to say, "do this or you're out." After all, you wanted her standing up with you because she's one of your best friends, right?

Just my two cents.

melissamc2

I guess my question here is did you say "By having four of you, I will expect each of you to call corners at the ceremony [insert FULL EXPLANATION OF WHAT THAT ENTAILS/MEANS].  Is this something you are agreeable to doing?"

OR

Did you say "yeah and I figure you girls can call corners -  oh, did I tell you about the dress I was looking at yesterday [insert complete deviation from the topic at hand]," and then bring it up recently with more information?

The two would have a drastically different impact on the current situation.

HOW you explain/present something is as important as what you're explaining/presenting.  As mentioned above, "pagan" covers a LOT of territory and she may have taken something entirely different from your conversations with her than you did (including this whole "she has to convert" nonsense).

As for her "tattling" to your Mother...we don't have any idea how long you've known this girl, how well she may know your Mother, or anything else.  Maybe she talks to your Mom regularly and a phone call wasn't the oddest thing in the world.  I can't fault someone for making one phone call without knowing the history.

It sounds like an actual face to face discussion is in order to clear all of this up.  If she feels, after truly understanding all of it, that it will conflict with HER faith, you have to make a decision - having someone else fulfill that one part of her "role," or remove someone you consider one of your closest friends because of HER beliefs?  Close mindedness works both ways, but there are many allowances for compromise in this situation.  Good luck.

amber2123

I am Wiccan and I explained what calling corners ment when I asked AND gave them time to do research on their own (1 week) before I accepted answers from my nonpagan friends.  She does call my mom regularly because her mom and my mom are friends so we used to call for them all the time.  Example: my mom "call A's mom and ask if she wants to do lunch."  It just erked me.