Arrested groomsman...

Pamburger

My fiance and I have been engaged since early 2009...a few months after it happened, we chose our wedding party even though our date isn't until 2011. I didn't try to be controlling and tell FI who he could pick, but one friend didn't seem like the best idea to me. Last summer the groomsman in question was arrested, and for the whole past year, we didn't know if he would be in jail or not. I tried talking to him to see if he would graciously back out of the wedding, but he didn't get the hint. Meanwhile, I re-arranged the wedding party thinking he won't be around...) Recently he was sentenced, and he got only probation....but he isn't supposed to drink any alcohol as part of the probation rules. (I should mention that he is also socially awkward and isn't the easiest person to get along with.) So either he drinks at the wedding and violates probation right in front of me, or doesn't drink and sits in the corner all day, angry at his situation. Either way, it makes me uncomfortable. FI says he isn't kicking him out of the wedding because it's his friend; I say we are either kicking him out or making him an usher because he has no morals and doesn't get along with people.  (I prefer if he's out. Also, 2 people in the wedding party are cops.) This has been causing constant arguments between us. Can anyone help me???? Please!

Manwaithiel

I hope your FI rips you a new one. Along with the other posters here.

AutumnFair

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_can-kick-this-groomsman-out?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:37Discussion:adfd0dc2-300d-47c9-b47a-739945280feePost:087c4995-8040-41c8-acb5-5bf9377bb9dc">Arrested groomsman...</a>:
[QUOTE]My fiance and I have been engaged since early 2009...a few months after it happened, we chose our wedding party even though our date isn't until 2011. I didn't try to be controlling and tell FI who he could pick, but one friend didn't seem like the best idea to me. Last summer the groomsman in question was arrested, and for the whole past year, we didn't know if he would be in jail or not. I tried talking to him to see if he would graciously back out of the wedding, but he didn't get the hint. Meanwhile, I re-arranged the wedding party thinking he won't be around...) Recently he was sentenced, and he got only probation....but he isn't supposed to drink any alcohol as part of the probation rules. (I should mention that he is also socially awkward and isn't the easiest person to get along with.) So either he drinks at the wedding and violates probation right in front of me, or doesn't drink and sits in the corner all day, angry at his situation. Either way, it makes me uncomfortable. FI says he isn't kicking him out of the wedding because it's his friend; I say we are either kicking him out or making him an usher because he has no morals and doesn't get along with people.  (I prefer if he's out. Also, 2 people in the wedding party are cops.) This has been causing constant arguments between us. Can anyone help me???? Please!
Posted by Pamburger[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>You are way out of line. You do NOT get to dictate your FI side. He obviously wants him to be a GM so LEAVE HIM ALONE! You are in Bridezilla territory and I hope you apologize to your FI for your past meddling actions. If the GM gets caught drinking then he pays the consequences, if he sulks then <strong>ignore</strong> him and have fun on the dance floor. 

</div>

mbcdefg

I don't get why you care so much.

Or why you "rearranged your entire wedding party" around him ... what does that even mean? Why would his participation make a difference in who you select to be in the wedding party? You pick the people YOU want, your FI picks the people that HE wants, you order flowers once you have the final numbers figured out, and you can sort out the walking order at the rehearsal in about three minutes. Boom, done.

aerinpegadrak

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_can-kick-this-groomsman-out?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:37Discussion:adfd0dc2-300d-47c9-b47a-739945280feePost:5195a64b-818c-4b52-b871-e2ef2fd66426">Re: Arrested groomsman...</a>:
[QUOTE]When we thought he may be in prison, we decided to move 2 of the 4 ushers (my brothers) to be groomsman, and that would allow me to add another close friend of mine as a BM....for the record, my FI agrees that he now wants him as an usher. I'm not totally nuts and trying to control who he picks as friends (FI also doesn't even talk to this guy very often and half the time doesn't pick up if he calls, which is maybe once a month).
Posted by Pamburger[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that's not any better.  You shouldn't be promoting and demoting people.  It just shows all of your friends that they're simply props to you, warm bodies to fill out your pictures.  Even sides aren't required, and moving people around to keep them even is just a really crappy way to treat your friends.

Manwaithiel

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_can-kick-this-groomsman-out?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:37Discussion:adfd0dc2-300d-47c9-b47a-739945280feePost:04a04f91-5189-4d7f-9798-f72457103897">Re: Arrested groomsman...</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Arrested groomsman... : Yeah, that's not any better.  You shouldn't be promoting and demoting people.  It just shows all of your friends that they're simply props to you, warm bodies to fill out your pictures.  Even sides aren't required, and moving people around to keep them even is just a really crappy way to treat your friends.
Posted by aerinpegadrak[/QUOTE]

Yup

mkrupar

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_can-kick-this-groomsman-out?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:37Discussion:adfd0dc2-300d-47c9-b47a-739945280feePost:04a04f91-5189-4d7f-9798-f72457103897">Re: Arrested groomsman...</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Arrested groomsman... : Yeah, that's not any better.  You shouldn't be promoting and demoting people.  It just shows all of your friends that they're simply props to you, warm bodies to fill out your pictures.  Even sides aren't required, and moving people around to keep them even is just a really crappy way to treat your friends.
Posted by aerinpegadrak[/QUOTE]

This, you promoted two ushers, added a second string BM, who if she didn't make the cut the first time around why would you have added her in the first place? News Flash! WP sides do not have to be even. Your FI's no better for now deciding to make this guy an usher. I'm glad you two can rank your friends by order of importance and shuffle them around a like a fantasy football team. GL, I'd be curious to hear how many of these people are still your friends after the wedding.

Edited: because I missed some punctuation

kimp67

this may be a dumb question, but what exactly is the difference between an "usher" and a "GM" in a wedding? 

banana468

In some weddings, the usher is not a GM.  He is responsible for the seating of guests and that is it.

The GM would then be just like a BM - there as support for the groom but not involved in a seating of the guests capacity.

cmmosley81

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_can-kick-this-groomsman-out?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:37Discussion:adfd0dc2-300d-47c9-b47a-739945280feePost:087c4995-8040-41c8-acb5-5bf9377bb9dc">Arrested groomsman...</a>:
[QUOTE]My fiance and I have been engaged since early 2009...a few months after it happened, we chose our wedding party even though our date isn't until 2011. I didn't try to be controlling and tell FI who he could pick, but one friend didn't seem like the best idea to me. Last summer the groomsman in question was arrested, and for the whole past year, we didn't know if he would be in jail or not. I tried talking to him to see if he would graciously back out of the wedding, but he didn't get the hint. Meanwhile, I re-arranged the wedding party thinking he won't be around...) <strong>Recently he was sentenced, and he got only probation....but he isn't supposed to drink any alcohol as part of the probation rules. (I should mention that he is also socially awkward and isn't the easiest person to get along with.) So either he drinks at the wedding and violates probation right in front of me, or doesn't drink and sits in the corner all day, angry at his situation.</strong>Either way, it makes me uncomfortable. FI says he isn't kicking him out of the wedding because it's his friend; I say we are either kicking him out or making him an usher because he has no morals and doesn't get along with people.  (I prefer if he's out. Also, 2 people in the wedding party are cops.) This has been causing constant arguments between us. Can anyone help me???? Please!
Posted by Pamburger[/QUOTE]

Whatever his issue is with alcohol you can't demote him because he drinks. AA and NA teach all the people that go that there are times in life where you will be in a place where alcohol is available. It is HIS responsibility to not drink not yours. At my wedding I have 3 people who are coming who are in AA/NA and they know there is going to be a bar and have decided that if it is too much that they will leave early. You are almost saying to him well since you cant drink why even come. That is in no way allowed.

trix1223

You're clearly caring more about the look of your wedding than what the purpose of the ceremony is, and that's really quite a shame.

You were wrong to harangue your FI about a member of his WP.  You were wrong to go behind your FI's back to try to get his friend to drop out.  You were wrong to change the roles of friends from usher to GM.  You were wrong to add another BM simply for the sake of symmetry.  You continue to be wrong to make a line in the sand about this.

It appears to most who are reading your OP and then your follow-up, that the "vision" of the ceremony matters more to you than what your FI cares about.  And bullying your fiance is an awful way to begin a marriage.

IMO, you owe your groom a huge apology.  I'd suggest including groveling, but that's up to you.  "Sorry, honey, I just caught a case of the wedding crazies, and started to think that symmetry was more important than our friends and family.  I'm not sure how it happened, but I'm over it now, and realize that I was wrong.  Can you forgive me?"

megk8oz

The whole excuse of "I'm afraid he'll drink, even though he shouldn't" thing? Not your concern. First off, unless you were planning on not inviting this guy to the wedding at all, I fail to see how he'd had any less access to alcohol that day. So whether or not he's a GM, that booze is going to be there, and there's no way you'd be able to stop him from actually drinking anyway ... what difference does it make if he's in the WP in that scenario? That he gets drunk and makes a scene in a coordinated tux? Oh no! It's not like it reflects poorly on you or your FI is somebody else makes an ass out of themselves at your wedding. The only way it would, would be if you made an ass out of yourself reacting to the situation.

Say the guy gets drunk and you start flipping sh!t on him in front of everybody. Yeah, then people are going to say "Wow, Bride is a total psycho" and have a good story to tell for the next few weeks. If he gets drunk and you're calm and poised about everything, nobody's going to think twice about it.

Second, since it violates his parole (And not yours) if he drinks at the wedding, that's on him. He's a grown man and it is not your job to take responsibility for him  or his behavior. I can guarantee that your wedding is not the only place he will go during his parole that has alcohol. One of the things you learn in AA (Which, if he got banned from drinking during parole, he also got sentenced to attend meetings, so he will be learning this) is that there is alcohol in so many places you go, and you need to be strong enough to say "no" regardless of how big the temptation is. Considering you aren't getting married next year, he really might have everything under control by then and it won't even remotely be a problem ... but again, even if he gets drunk off his butt, that is his issue, not yours. It's not like if he violates his parole at your wedding that you get arrested for it.

Nothing changes if he's in or out of the WP (Aside from hurting the friendship) unless he's just not welcome at the wedding at all. So why damage a friendship over something that literally will make no difference?

megk8oz

And taking it upon yourself to talk to this guy about backing out in hopes that he'd "get the hint" was waaaaaaaaaay out of line on your part. This is your FI's friend, and your FI's side of the WP. It's your FI's issue to handle and you shouldn't have anything to do with it. And hoping he'd "get the hint" and drop out is just as bad as actually kicking him out, if not worse, because you wanted to get your way, but didn't want to look like a jerk. Which is incredibly underhanded and manipulative. You can spin it however you want, but there is absolutely no reason you'd be hoping he'd "take the hint" and drop out other than you wanted to get rid of him without looking like the bad guy.

If I found out DH did something so incredibly rude and borderline deceitful to one of my BMs, I'd seriously be questioning his character.

mysticl

If he is socially awkward and doesn't get along well with people, why would you make him an usher?  As an usher he will interact with a large number of  your guests.  As a GM he would just stand at the alter and not even look at the guests then go to the reception and drink or not drink.  And if he knows there are cops at the wedding I hope he will be be smart enough not to violate his probation in front of them.

kimp67

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_can-kick-this-groomsman-out?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:37Discussion:adfd0dc2-300d-47c9-b47a-739945280feePost:968e5f5f-0995-477b-9861-f9489e660fe4">Re: Arrested groomsman...</a>:
[QUOTE]In some weddings, the usher is not a GM.  He is responsible for the seating of guests and that is it. The GM would then be just like a BM - there as support for the groom but not involved in a seating of the guests capacity.
Posted by banana468[/QUOTE]

That's what I was guessing, but wasn't certain.  Thanks!

MyNameIsNot

You owe your FI, and this guy, a huge apology.  You are way out of line.

If I was your FI, I would be questioning my decision to marry someone so judgmental, who thinks she gets to choose my friends, and that thinks this is an acceptable way to treat people.  You need to fix this now.

duckie1905

How about...MYOB and let your FI's friend worry about himself.  You cannot control the actions of anyone but yourself and your FI is right on about not kicking him out.

You are waaaay out of line.  You are being manipulative and a huge butt-in-ski.  You need to reevaluate not only your behavior but also the impact that behavior may have on your relationship.  I would never marry a person that behaves the way you do and admire (or feel sorry for) your FI would apparently has the ability to deal with your crazy.

Just let it go.

DH's GM was arrested THE NIGHT OF THE RD.  He had been in trouble before then, as well.  Now, did I ever like him?  No, not really.  Did I particulary approve of DH asking him to be a GM?  No, not really.  But, it wasnt' my job to choose his side of the WP or his friends and it certainly wasn't my job to go behind his back and maniputate the guy to get what I wanted.

You need some serious perspective.

bablingbrooke

If you try to drop your FI's GM because he has some problems, don't be surprised if your FI decides to drop you.  You don't get to dictate his side of the WP any more than he gets to dictate yours.  It's 100% inappropriate.

heyimbren

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_can-kick-this-groomsman-out?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:37Discussion:adfd0dc2-300d-47c9-b47a-739945280feePost:087c4995-8040-41c8-acb5-5bf9377bb9dc">Arrested groomsman...</a>:
[QUOTE]My fiance and I have been engaged since early 2009...a few months after it happened, we chose our wedding party even though our date isn't until 2011. I didn't try to be controlling and tell FI who he could pick, but one friend didn't seem like the best idea to me. Last summer the groomsman in question was arrested, and for the whole past year, we didn't know if he would be in jail or not.<strong> I tried talking to him to see if he would graciously back out of the wedding, but he didn't get the hint.</strong> Meanwhile,<strong> I re-arranged the wedding party thinking he won't be around..</strong>.) Recently he was sentenced, and he got only probation....but he isn't supposed to drink any alcohol as part of the probation rules. <strong>(I should mention that he is also socially awkward and isn't the easiest person to get along with</strong>.) <strong>So either he drinks at the wedding and violates probation right in front of me, or doesn't drink and sits in the corner all day, angry at his situation.</strong>Either way, it makes me uncomfortable.<strong> FI says he isn't kicking him out of the wedding because it's his friend; I say we are either kicking him out or making him an usher because he has no morals and doesn't get along with people.</strong>  (I prefer if he's out. Also,<strong> 2 people in the wedding party are cops.) </strong>This has been causing constant arguments between us. Can anyone help me???? Please!
Posted by Pamburger[/QUOTE]

Can anyone help you? Yeah, we can all help you on here by being honest and telling you that what you did was absolutely terrible.

1) You chose your wedding party way too early. But you did it anyways, learn to live with the consequences of your actions.

2) You don't get control over who your FI chooses to stand up with him. You never did. You pick your BP and leave it at that.

3) I didn't realize police checks were necessary to be in a WP these days.

4) So you went behind your FI's back to try and get his friend out of the WP? Classy.

5) You re-arranged the WP on top of this. That's a huge no-no. If someone drops out or can't make it, you leave it alone. Make do with what you have.

6) Why on earth does it matter if he's "socially awkward" or not? Do all WP members now have to be charming and entertaining to guests as well?

7) His probation = his business. NOT YOURS. I don't see what having him in the WP or not has to do with the drinking anyways. Are you suggesting you might revoke his invitation for the wedding entirely? Because that would be deplorable. Regardless of whether he's in the WP or not, alcohol will still be there.

8) FI already gave you your answer. Accept it, you don't get to change it. Your FI is the smart one here.

9) So he has no morals because he was arrested? Do you live in some paradise utopia somewhere where everyone is perfect?

10) So what if two cops are in the WP? Just because he's been arrested doesn't make them "natural enemies".

I suggest you apologize to this friend and your FI for your actions.

MamaSally

Wow, once again, posters judging the person asking for help.  She didn't want your opinion on what you think of her, just some help working though a problem. 

My advice, this is between your FI and you.  Discuss.  If he wants him to be in the wedding, it IS his wedding too.  Bite the bullet, accept him and if he drinks, his bad.

My DH had a Best Man who tried to get him drunk before the ceremony, thank goodness DH has good judgement and declined the shots.  And you know what?  The guy didn't want to hang with married guys (they are no fun) and was out of DH's life within a year of the wedding. Good riddance.

bablingbrooke

Mama, stop giving terrible advice that OP will regret.

Manwaithiel

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_can-kick-this-groomsman-out?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:37Discussion:adfd0dc2-300d-47c9-b47a-739945280feePost:ada193cc-05bf-4845-8c27-0f391f5da8eb">Re: Arrested groomsman...</a>:
[QUOTE]Wow, once again, posters judging the person asking for help.  She didn't want your opinion on what you think of her, just some help working though a problem.  My advice, this is between your FI and you.  Discuss.  If he wants him to be in the wedding, it IS his wedding too.  Bite the bullet, accept him and if he drinks, his bad. My DH had a Best Man who tried to get him drunk before the ceremony, thank goodness DH has good judgement and declined the shots.  And you know what?  The guy didn't want to hang with married guys (they are no fun) and was out of DH's life within a year of the wedding. Good riddance.
Posted by MamaSally[/QUOTE]

I'm sure if your FI went behind your back to tell one of your girls to back out of the wedding, you would take it SOOO well.

lillolo

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_can-kick-this-groomsman-out?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:37Discussion:adfd0dc2-300d-47c9-b47a-739945280feePost:ada193cc-05bf-4845-8c27-0f391f5da8eb">Re: Arrested groomsman...</a>:
[QUOTE]Wow, once again, posters judging the person asking for help.  She didn't want your opinion on what you think of her, just some help working though a problem.  <strong>My advice, this is between your FI and you.  Discuss.  If he wants him to be in the wedding, it IS his wedding too.  Bite the bullet, accept him and if he drinks, his bad.</strong>My DH had a Best Man who tried to get him drunk before the ceremony, thank goodness DH has good judgement and declined the shots.  And you know what?  The guy didn't want to hang with married guys (they are no fun) and was out of DH's life within a year of the wedding. Good riddance.
Posted by MamaSally[/QUOTE]

Ummm I don't see how this is "bad advice," it makes the most sense. It is between the two of them and she should let your FI have the say in his WP! It is his wedding too. 

But for the girls on here who attack like lions, chill out a little. I know we are all stressed and busy with our weddings but some of the things that are said or the way they are said is not "lady like" and sometimes a bit shocking. Aren't these boards supposed to be here for brides to help brides? Well I've seen a lot of the complete opposite. It's sad actually.

banana468

Lillolo, keep in mind that advice can be rather blunt on the international boards.  That doesn't mean that advice wasn't given.  It just means that on international boards, you won't get lots of sunshine and rainbows.

But even with the blunt advice, it's still advice and if the OP does listen to it, hopefully she'll come away with some better ideas.

megk8oz

Now Brooke, not everybody can be the Wedding Queen like you

lillolo

bablingbrooke: Your a lucky girl then to have never had a stress during your wedding, let me guess you had the luxury to have a planner?! Or you are the most easy going women I know.

Manwaithiel

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_wedding-party_can-kick-this-groomsman-out?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:37Discussion:adfd0dc2-300d-47c9-b47a-739945280feePost:1ae69c65-bfa5-49bf-b7ab-c1a498fc6248">Re: Arrested groomsman...</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Arrested groomsman... : Ummm I don't see how this is "bad advice," it makes the most sense. It is between the two of them and she should let your FI have the say in his WP! It is his wedding too.  But for the girls on here who attack like lions, chill out a little. <strong>I know we are all stressed and busy with our weddings but some of the things that are said or the way they are said is not "lady like" and sometimes a bit shocking</strong>. Aren't these boards supposed to be here for brides to help brides? Well I've seen a lot of the complete opposite. It's sad actually.
Posted by lillolo[/QUOTE]

Way to make sweeping generalizations. I don't have a wedding planner and I'm not stressing about the wedding.

Actually, I've been stressed out about my job and my classes, my recital, and the fact that 3 days ago, I had no idea how I was going to pay for school. The wedding is one of the last things I'm worried about.

I think your issue is that the only thing you seem to be stressing about is the wedding which, in the grand scheme of things, is not a big deal. I'm glad you have nothing else to worry or care about besides your wedding. You're the same person that got mad because your student BM said she was going to be MIA for a few months and that she got mad at you for asking for a trip to Vegas.

If you think it's "lady like" to "request" expensive gifts and get all put out because your BM isn't texting/calling every second of the day because she's AT SCHOOL, then we have nothing nice to say to each other.

Manwaithiel

And I will say this again to all of you who are put out by the advice given on this thread. If you can tell us that if your FI went to one of your BMs and "hinted" that they should back out of the wedding and you would not be the LEAST bit upset about it, then by all means, speak up.