Let's talk about religion, atheism, and the afterlife or lack thereof

ReturnOfKuus

Why do theism and belief in an afterlife seem to go hand in hand?  Why don't we see more people who think that there's a god but no afterlife, or that there probably isn't a god but there could be some natural phenomenon after death that is essentially an afterlife?

MinM

Would people adhere to the tenants of most religions, which restrict behavior that fundamentally feels good, if there was no reward?

NOLABridesmaid

Kuus, I'm going to need a nap for this one.

I do think it's very interesting that people don't believe in the basic belief that we are all not just bones and a brain. That we are driven and lead by our spirit, even if you don't believe in heaven. Spend any time in a hospice, hospital or at the moment when this life ends to know that you are more than your body.

TheDuckis

I think the two concepts were invented together to achieve similar goals (ie, for the weak to exercise power over the strong, if we want to be really Nietzschian about it) so you don't really need one without the other, if that makes sense.

FWIW, I *like* to believe in God and Heaven. It brings me great comfort to think of the loved ones I've lost being somewhere else. But when I really think about it, I do think Nietzsche had it right, and I'm pretty sure once the lights go out I won't actually be going up to frolick in the couds.

NOLABridesmaid

Min, faith isn't just about the after life. Yes, you want to go to heaven, but the day to day relationship you have with God is unmeasurable.

It's not about, I have to do all of these things everyday because I want to go to heaven. It's more about I'm trying to be obedient to the Word of God, I'm trying to have a closer relationship to God, I'm trying to lean on him for strength when I'm going through a hard time. This time on earth is precious, and not just to go through the motions until you die and get to go to heaven.

VarunaTT

Honestly, dying is scary.  The knowledge that you are going to age, you are going to do and there's literally nothing you can do to stop it, is scary.  It's very difficult to live with that knowledge and to face it fully and accept it.  So sure, if someone can tell you, well you will still die, but you won't really be dead, why wouldn't you take the deal?

So, if you chose to reject that, then you're faced with:  Well I need to make heaven here on earth.  Sure, but I have to eat, have some clothes and shelter too.  So I spend 8 hours/day in a job that I like, but is this my heaven?  Not really. So am I wasting this precious gift that I just happened to get lucky to have and barreling headlong into death?  

Why was I blessed to be born and then be nothing special?  A random act of biological chance?  Who gets to be special?  Are they just lucky, did they work harder?  What if my existence really is meanless or is it that much more special, which means I'm wasting it even more than I was yesterday?

The best I can come up with is learning to live/deal with "I don't know".

Religion gives you something to feel special about.  In birth, in life, in death.  It gives you a regimen of answers that are far more comforting than all of that crap above. 

mattycam

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_wedding-woes_lets-talk-about-religion-atheism-and-the-afterlife-or-lack-thereof?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:47Discussion:70afa555-f687-474e-b7a2-e1d1ce2a1629Post:a0be77d4-b670-4f22-a997-21380ed7a95a">Re: Let's talk about religion, atheism, and the afterlife or lack thereof</a>:
[QUOTE]Min, faith isn't just about the after life. Yes, you want to go to heaven, but the day to day relationship you have with God is unmeasurable. It's not about, I have to do all of these things everyday because I want to go to heaven. It's more about I'm trying to be obedient to the Word of God, I'm trying to have a closer relationship to God, I'm trying to lean on him for strength when I'm going through a hard time. This time on earth is precious, and not just to go through the motions until you die and get to go to heaven.
Posted by NOLABridesmaid[/QUOTE]

I couldn't agree more.

ReturnOfKuus

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_wedding-woes_lets-talk-about-religion-atheism-and-the-afterlife-or-lack-thereof?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:47Discussion:70afa555-f687-474e-b7a2-e1d1ce2a1629Post:24908c1b-6eb7-425e-ae88-7011f7a8bb23">Re: Let's talk about religion, atheism, and the afterlife or lack thereof</a>:
[QUOTE]I think the two concepts were invented together to achieve similar goals (ie, for the weak to exercise power over the strong, if we want to be really Nietzschian about it) so you don't really need one without the other, if that makes sense.
Posted by TheDuckis[/QUOTE]


I always thought it was the opposite, that the strong invented some eternal reward for being a doormat in this life so that the weak would continue to bend over.

NOLABridesmaid

FINALLY I GET A LURKER!!!!!!!!

ReturnOfKuus

There's the miracle the atheists were looking for as proof 

VarunaTT

And honestly, I don't think I know what happens after death.  But I admit I DON'T know and I reject the relgious assertion that it DOES know.

TheDuckis

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_wedding-woes_lets-talk-about-religion-atheism-and-the-afterlife-or-lack-thereof?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:47Discussion:70afa555-f687-474e-b7a2-e1d1ce2a1629Post:440895d0-49ae-4a80-b117-0df9367ca260">Re: Let's talk about religion, atheism, and the afterlife or lack thereof</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Let's talk about religion, atheism, and the afterlife or lack thereof : I always thought it was the opposite, that the strong invented some eternal reward for being a doormat in this life so that the weak would continue to bend over.
Posted by ReturnOfKuus[/QUOTE]

I never thought of it this way. To me it's more the strong thought they could do whatever they wanted, because no one could stop them. Then some smart weakling started saying you can't take my land/wife/money/whatever, because even if I can't physically stop you, you're going to have to answer to an old man with a white beard at some point.

ReturnOfKuus

That is a real chicken and egg, isn't it?  But you're probably right, Duckis.  It's probably a modern thing for people to be all wimpy yet smug about it.

pegasuskat

Nola put that so well above.
The bible says that the only way into heaven is through him, so people that just live a good life and hope for the best are going to be disappointed, being good won't get you there, and some of the biggest sinners we have heard of will, because they repent. 

"I am the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the Father but by Me" John 14:6

ReturnOfKuus

That... did not answer my question at all, to the point where it wasn't even relevant.