A Great, Now the Tea Party wants to form their own militia's to defend against the federal government?!?!?!
I am amazed at how this new party continues to push the boundaries of CRAZY.
J
Wait, isn't that a constitutional right? I mean, isn't that how this country was founded? A bunch of people tired of the political system formed a militia and fought for their freedom? I am not saying I agree with the Tea Party (they are disorganized and generally have no centralized political ethos), but to say that people exercising their rights is crazy seems a bit harsh.
Yesterday at 9:18am ·
K
This country was also founded on mass genocide. But are we promoting that now?
Yesterday at 10:29pm
A
I agree that the 2nd amendment gives us the right to bear arms and for a "well regulated militia."One could argue that each state's national Guard services that function. What scares me is the radical anti-federal government and separatism behind this. What I think is crazy is how people use and agree with the system when it benefits them, and when it does not the threaten to raise up arms. This type of logic is how civil wars get started.
Yesterday at 10:41pm
J
K - That is a red herring, an appeal to emotion and guilt by association. All logical fallacies and not a valid argument for or against a militia. sorry.
A, to quote Thomas Jefferson, "God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.... And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from ... See Moretime to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms.... The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
Civil war does not have to be violent and destructive. We in essence had a civil war in the 60's and early 70's. and yes, there was violence in some instances, but, as a whole, it was rather peaceful. To say that people don't have a right to act on their perceived lack of recognition in the government is tyrannical, and complacency will only lead to further government encroachment on the civil liberties of the people. As a nation that was build on individual freedoms and liberties, eventually this mindset of entitlement and government control will be questioned and resisted. It is the natural cycle of American politics.
3 hours ago ·
K
J- This is from my husband.
"Militia's make me more uneasy than terrorists. The thought of these gun brandishing zealots being people that I have day to day dealings with worries me more than Al Quaida. Don't think that their aims are the same, Oklahoma City? Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols. Both those were militia members."
Half of these organizations sit around reading the Turner Diaries increasing their paranoia that the first shots of race war will sound. They're delusional. They have neither the numbers nor the firepower stand a chance against the National Guard, let alone the military. What would they do instead? Go from home to home seeing who stands with them and their agenda and having their way with those that don't. Goon squads basically.
Honestly, look at the demographic of the tea party. Notice what it is? Mainly upper class angry white people who are annoyed that they might have to pay out a little more. and what do they do? Make those working class minorities who vote based on social issues (gay marriage, abortion) scared that the government will take over them. But where do they take care of the little guy? Where? The thing about the revolutionists that made this country is that they fought against a tyrannical rule that made it impossible to live your daily life. They taxed you so much and didn't give you anything. What are they fighting against now? Not allowing gays to marry, abortion, giving everyone universal health care, making school more affordable. The revolutionists for FOR civil rights, the tea party fights AGAINST it.
Give me examples where militias work. Show me one that is ethically diverse and has the true best interest of ALL Americans and not some small splinter of ideological agenda.
Good luck finding that.
2 hours ago
J
I clearly stated that I don't agree with the Tea Party. That is not the subject of this debate, which was "is it crazy to form a militia over your political beliefs?".
All groups of people will have individuals who are delusional and will act on their beliefs masquerading as the beliefs of the group. That argument would be the same as saying "I don't trust Muslims because of what a few of them did on September 11, 2001." or "I don't trust people who like animals because of the ALF." Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. To say the actions of a few terrorist is a reason why there should never be groups of people willing to stand up to the government tells me there is probably more reason now for them to exist then there has been in the brief history of our country. Complacency in the system will lead to the system overstepping its bounds until it is too late to act.
And the "goon squad mentality" was basically the American revolution. Do you think they had more firepower or man power than the British army? Not a chance, but they had populist support and people stood up against the tyrannical authority. And the assumption that political dissidents would "have their way with those who don't [support their agenda]" is an appeal to fear, another logical fallacy.
about an hour ago ·
J
Oh, and the whole Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols argument is guilt by association, another logical fallacy.
about an hour ago ·
K
Johnny Walker to?
Well, in the case of militias now they don't have the populist support. Thank god, because they are lunatics. If you want to go around touting the pro's of militia's go ahead. I think you will find yourself in interesting company.
and I find it HILARIOUS that you are saying all this is fallacy. Either your head is stuck in the sand, have never picked up a text book, or you are without any sort of access to anything that has happened in the past twenty years (which I would find hard to believe since you have the internet), because I am just quoting from things I learned in my American history book and what has happened as I have grown up.
And just to reiterate my last question, which you did not answer, where are the militia's that have an ethnically, ideologically and socially diverse make up?
AND just another point(which I am sure you will skirt around the issue again)if the Chinese came over and and said because you owe us so much money we are going to run all your ports and how you govern and the American army did nothing THEN you have a reason to form a militia. But to form a militia because you have a liberal BLACK president who supports the welfare of the American people by making health care more affordable, bringing down the price of college,trying to bring up our countries infrastructure so that we can provide safe roads and trains and give jobs to people out of work, allow gays to marry, get the government out of a persons reproductive parts and pay our teachers what they are worth so that they teach our children right? That's not a cause for an insurgency.
That, I believe, is a lynch party mentality.
45 minutes ago
J
You misunderstand me when I say a logical fallacy. I am not in any way questioning the content of your claims, but rather, their relevance to the debate at hand. Notice how I am trying to stay away from them? It's not because I am "skirting around" the issue, but rather they are not relevant to the question at hand and will lead to a tangential discussion. Thus, the issues for which the Tea party is standing on is irrelevant.
On to your "point": So their is a subjective criteria in which a militia would not be "crazy?" Who decides this metric? Is it the government? Is it the popular vote? Once the government, or by proxy, the popular vote, starts applying criteria and restrictions to our rights and freedoms then we have, in essence, lost our rights and freedoms. That scares me infinitely more than "gun brandishing zealots." To quote Voltaire," I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."