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I'm Really Upset. Like REALLY Upset. And This is Long,

FIand I had a huge falling out last night. I found out he's been lying and deliberately hiding things from him. He's a financial advisor, and on Monday he went out to another local city for an appointment and the client was a no-show. So he went to "visit" someone he met at a networking event - another woman at her store. While he was there, he met some guy who was designing her website. FI talked to him for 20 minutes, then invited him back to our house. Without telling me. Half the time FI forgets to lock the damn door, and he's inviting perfect strangers into our house and not telling me. In this lunch meeting, FI decided he wanted to go ahead and hire this guy to work on a project he'd thought up a long time ago for a company. He handed over $150 and then promised to pay $1000 once his website was launched. All of this happened on Monday, and I didn't find out until last night and only because I went through his phone. Add in the fact that the night before last, we had a fight because he went to a networking event and showed up an hour and a half late because he "lost track of time". He got mad at me and said he HAS to do these things because business at his current job isn't what he thought it would be and he's concerned about not being able to pay rent in a few months. He said he's trying so hard to find the balance between working his ass off at MetLife just to get by, and spending time with me at home.

So he's going to spend $1150 on a website for a half-thought out idea, and start his own business... because THAT's a great idea considering where we are right now.

After I basically screamed at him, he finally admitted he did it without telling me because he knew I wouldn't want him to do it. So he lied. Again. To my face.

How am I supposed to trust him with anything? We're supposed to be getting married - we're supposed to be a team. But he's deliberately excluding me from HUGE decisions. We aren't married yet, and we don't have joint banking accounts. Do I even have a right to be angry about this?

Before you ask, we're both 24.
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Re: I'm Really Upset. Like REALLY Upset. And This is Long,

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    DG1DG1 member
    5 Love Its Name Dropper First Anniversary First Comment
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_wedding-woes_im-really-upset-like-really-upset-and-this-is-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:47Discussion:e4ce49eb-ceec-46ef-85c6-a7acd707d315Post:5a41c834-63ff-4357-9a66-1aaa6a21153d">I'm Really Upset. Like REALLY Upset. And This is Long,</a>:
    [QUOTE]FIand I had a huge falling out last night. I found out he's been lying and deliberately hiding things from him. He's a financial advisor, and on Monday he went out to another local city for an appointment and the client was a no-show. So he went to "visit" someone he met at a networking event - another woman at her store. While he was there, he met some guy who was designing her website. FI talked to him for 20 minutes, then invited him back to our house. Without telling me. Half the time FI forgets to lock the damn door, and he's inviting perfect strangers into our house and not telling me. In this lunch meeting, FI decided he wanted to go ahead and hire this guy to work on a project he'd thought up a long time ago for a company. He handed over $150 and then promised to pay $1000 once his website was launched. All of this happened on Monday, and I didn't find out until last night and only because I went through his phone. Add in the fact that the night before last, we had a fight because he went to a networking event and showed up an hour and a half late because he "lost track of time". He got mad at me and said he HAS to do these things because business at his current job isn't what he thought it would be and he's concerned about not being able to pay rent in a few months. He said he's trying so hard to find the balance between working his ass off at MetLife just to get by, and spending time with me at home. So he's going to spend $1150 on a website for a half-thought out idea, and start his own business... because THAT's a great idea considering where we are right now. After I basically screamed at him, he finally admitted he did it without telling me because he knew I wouldn't want him to do it. So he lied. Again. To my face. How am I supposed to trust him with anything? We're supposed to be getting married - we're supposed to be a team. But he's deliberately excluding me from HUGE decisions. We aren't married yet, and we don't have joint banking accounts. Do I even have a right to be angry about this? Before you ask, we're both 24.
    Posted by CourtaniaLynn[/QUOTE]

    His lying is not acceptable, and you should be angry about that. But as far as the rest of it, you sound like the one going off the deep end. Networking is VERY important for people who are self-employed or who basically run their own business within a larger company (as many financial advisors do). In the process of doing this, he will meet - gasp - women!

    $1150 is a lot of money for a web site, especially when there are so many free options out there to get started. But (1) that should come out of HIS business money, not your personal finances and (2) if $1150 means you have to shut off the electricity or something, then he is a pretty crappy financial advisor to himself and you should probably build up some savings before doing anything else, like getting married.


    It sounds like he lies to you quite a bit, so I won't excuse him. In fact, he sounds fairly incompatible with you, and I don't know that I'd rush forward with a marriage if I were you.

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    Wait, so the website it for his existing business or one he would like to start?

    And how is he supposed to trust you when you are snooping through his phone?  Respect goes both ways.

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    *Barbie**Barbie* member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its Name Dropper First Comment
    edited August 2012
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_wedding-woes_im-really-upset-like-really-upset-and-this-is-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:47Discussion:e4ce49eb-ceec-46ef-85c6-a7acd707d315Post:5a41c834-63ff-4357-9a66-1aaa6a21153d">I'm Really Upset. Like REALLY Upset. And This is Long,</a>:
    [QUOTE]After I basically screamed at him, he finally admitted he did it without telling me because he knew I wouldn't want him to do it. So he lied. Again. To my face. <strong>How am I supposed to trust him with anything?</strong> We're supposed to be getting married - we're supposed to be a team. But he's deliberately excluding me from HUGE decisions. We aren't married yet, and we don't have joint banking accounts. <strong>Do I even have a right to be angry about this?</strong> Before you ask, we're both 24.
    Posted by CourtaniaLynn[/QUOTE]

    you're not. he's clearly proven that he is not trustworthy.

    absolutely. even though you may not have fully combined assets, you share a home (i'm assuming that these costs are shared?) and he should not randomly be inviting strangers back to the house. he also shouldn't be spending that type of money (even if it's from his personal account) without consulting you. the two of you need to be on the same wavelength in terms of finances or it will cause problems in the future.

    there are too many red flags here for me.
    i guess i would ask why you want to marry a guy who is
    1) repeatedly lying to you
    2) meeting up with other women behind your back
    3) inviting strangers into your home
    4) spending large sums of money without consulting you
    5) spending large sums of money and *KNOWING* that you won't approve or agree
    6) showing you no respect

    Also - why are you snooping in his phone? I'm assuming you have some trust issues (and for good reason) with him already.
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    I know that networking events are important. But we had an agreement that if he was going to be late getting home, he'd let me know. I feel like that's just a common courtesy. I always try to wait for him to get home so we can have a little time together before we go to sleep.

    I know the girl thing is crazy. It's just a knee jerk reaction after having practically every other guy I've been with cheat on me. It's not fair for me to put that on him, but sometimes I can't help it.

    I'd say in the course of our nearly three-year-long relationship, he's lied/hidden something from me four or five times - that I've found out about, anyway.

    It IS his money. I just feel like for such a HUGE decision (and the fact he invited a perfect stranger into our damn house) he should've told me. Is that fair?

    He just started this job a few months ago and he's in the "getting settled" stage. Clearly he knew I wasn't going to be okay with him starting a new business right now. We/he can't afford it financially, and he just doesn't have the time to devote to a new venture like that.
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    Wow, a lot of posts really fast.

    I have a lot of trust issues (CLEARLY) and he knows that I go through his phone. He's always said "it doesn't matter, I have nothing to hide".

    Well... about that.

    The website is for a business he'd like to start.
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    GBCKGBCK member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its Name Dropper First Comment
    How am I supposed to trust him with anything? We're supposed to be getting married - we're supposed to be a team. But he's deliberately excluding me from HUGE decisions. We aren't married yet, and we don't have joint banking accounts. Do I even have a right to be angry about this?

    1-you souldn't trust him w/ anything.  he has a proven track record of being a lying liar who lies, yo'd be a fool to trust him.  "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me" and all that

    asfar as should you be angry, of COURSE you should.
    And this should be a HUGE red flag.
    Because his past behavior is indicitive of what your'e signing up for--a lifetime of being lied to by a man who is sure he knows better than you.
    Run screaming.
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    No, I see your point.  IMO working together on finances, even if you don't have joint accounts or anything, should be something you start before the wedding, so that you know what you're getting into as far as the marriage goes.  What's to say he won't spend a thousand bucks on a whim after you're married, too, you know?

    I'm not going to go so far as to say break up, but I don't think the two of you are ready to get married yet.  Learn to work together financially, and just in general, and be the team you want to be after the wedding.  THEN get married.
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    We have nine months until the proposed wedding date but nothing's booked yet.

    Unfortuantely his whole damn family is in town because my parents are throwing an engagement party on Saturday. They're coming to see the house tonight and we're all supposed to go to dinner tomorrow night.
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    DG1DG1 member
    5 Love Its Name Dropper First Anniversary First Comment

    Just out of curiosity, what is an acceptable process for vetting strangers before inviting them back to your house?

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    Just let me know? "Hey babe, me and so-and-so are heading back to the house. Just wanted to let you know." We actually had a problem with him inviting friends over and not telling me. I walked into the house totally prepared to have some sexy time. Oops. 
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    It sounds like you two have two significant issues to address if your relationship is going to proceed: trust and shared financial outlook.  If you want to continue the engagement and look toward being married, a premarital counseling program or completing a course with a marriage and family counselor - before you two get anything booked - might be a good idea.  The course DH and I did through our church covered communication and basic budgeting, but also had references to resources and people who would continue working with couples on specific issues. 

    A third party might be able to provide plans to better compromise and to communicate career and fiscal goals with each other or talking with someone might help you determine that you two are not compatible.  IMO, you should address and resolve any issues before you plan a wedding.
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    Every guy has cheated on you? Maybe you should look at the common denominator, there.

    I'm with DG. It sounds like you're *both* contributing to this stuff. I would recommend couples counseling - many sessions - before you go through with a wedding. 
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    First off, DH is a financial advisor and used to have his own independent practice. If he's just receiving his base and not commission from clients at this point, he either needs to get those clients or quit. He does not have time to get involved in another business at this point. DH worked 100 hour work weeks getting clients, meeting with them, and making plans for people. He's going to find himself overburdened real quick if he doesn't make some choices.

    The big issue for me is that he sounds so damn immature. You do have a right to be angry, but seriously a grown adult who says they have nothing to hide doesn't do the things he does. It's just immaturity. Go to counseling.
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    This might sound weird, but maybe get a yourselves a bi-partisan financial counselor?  Honestly, FI and I have a financial counselor and it was the best thing we could have done.  On my end, I was always vague about just how much student debt I had (partly bc FI has none so it makes me feel bad that I'm dragging this debt into our life).  On his end, he also has a side business/hobby that he pretty much just breaks even on.  But, because it's a hobby, I recognize that he gets enjoyment out of it, so I just let it be.  Our financial counselor had us lay all our cards on the table - debt, 401K plans, our financial goals (wedding, house), etc.  Then she gave it to us in black and white, what we can save and what we can realistically expect to reach our goals.  She also helped us to recognize that it's okay to have some "fun" money that we spend without informing the other.  Now, we both get about $300 fun money a month to do what we want with (nights out together or with friends, shopping, etc.). 

    Anyway, I guess the point is that now FI has his fun money and I have mine and it has erased the tension that was starting to build.  I know he sees clothes shopping as a waste of money, but now he knows I'm not hitting the savings or affecting our financial goals at all.  If I blow all my "fun" money on clothes, then I can't do drinks with the girls and the onus is on me.

    If you did something similar or something else that worked for you, then you wouldn't worry about FI blowing his money (maybe).  It would be his "fun" money to spend how he sees fit.  My FI likes to save his up and make large purchases, where as I just like to get a little crazy at TJ Maxx.  Even if you don't go this route, I think you definitely need to be more honest and up front about money issues - even if it is super awkward and uncomfortable.
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    I don't think that people who are not married should have to go to counseling. If you are at the point you need a 3rd party to help your relationship work, why even get married?
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_wedding-woes_im-really-upset-like-really-upset-and-this-is-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:47Discussion:e4ce49eb-ceec-46ef-85c6-a7acd707d315Post:b10a99f0-fe97-4d43-89fd-26e16c13df6a">Re:I'm Really Upset. Like REALLY Upset. And This is Long,</a>:
    [QUOTE]I don't think that people who are not married should have to go to counseling. If you are at the point you need a 3rd party to help your relationship work, why even get married?
    Posted by FLANYTATOOGURL[/QUOTE]

    Well this seems a little judgemental.  What if they've been together 10 years?  What if they have kids?  What if something life-changing has happened to one or both of them (death of a family/friend, job loss, etc.) and it has affected their relationship?  Should they just give up on their relationship instead of trying to make it work?

    And if you're referring to financial counseling, I disagree even more.  It's a great way to organize your finances and set realistic goals.  Money tears couples apart and I'd rather know it all up front,  before the marriage.
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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_wedding-woes_im-really-upset-like-really-upset-and-this-is-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:47Discussion:e4ce49eb-ceec-46ef-85c6-a7acd707d315Post:825bcd37-efc5-429a-ae77-c66ae887c6d5">Re:I'm Really Upset. Like REALLY Upset. And This is Long,</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re:I'm Really Upset. Like REALLY Upset. And This is Long, : Well this seems a little judgemental. 
    Posted by julibug86[/QUOTE]

    She's good at that whole judgmental thing.

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    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_wedding-woes_im-really-upset-like-really-upset-and-this-is-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:47Discussion:e4ce49eb-ceec-46ef-85c6-a7acd707d315Post:9adf3103-f965-47da-ad11-5604f8927859">Re:I'm Really Upset. Like REALLY Upset. And This is Long,</a>:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re:I'm Really Upset. Like REALLY Upset. And This is Long, : She's good at that whole judgmental thing.
    Posted by ahstillwell[/QUOTE]

    I know.  I wish I had an unaccompanied minor I could send on a plane while I go get counseling before I'm married.

    Anyway, FI and I are Catholic and the church MAKES us get premarital counseling (precana) in order to get married. 
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    Well, come on, precana isn't really "counseling". Especially not if you get to take the weekend courses - H and I basically rolled our eyes at every activity we had to do. Maybe that's because we already had a house and a kid and had had to work this sht out, but I do remember one exercise was to write each other love letters. 

    Ours were basically identical: "I'm hungry. This is lame. Let's get dinner before we pick the kid up from the sitter." 

    That said, I'm all for couples counseling if both parties want it. If you're getting married, you're obviously committed to the other person. Just because you haven't said the magic words yet means you should chuck it all and start over? Btch, please. 
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    Thanks everybody.

    This is where we stand right now:

    He says I need to be more understanding about his long hours ahead and how stressful his job is. I agree. I say he needs to consult with me before making big decisions, including financial ones. He agrees.

    I suggested counseling, he said we need to look into it together before we decide.

    As of right now, the major wedding plans are on hold. Then again, things were taking forever anyway so that's not a big deal. We are still going through with the engagement party on Saturday because we are still engaged. It just may be a longer engagemen than we originally thought.

    I've come to realize that I have not made it easy for him to come to me with things because of my trust issues. I am making an effort to try to be more open and understanding. He has come to realize that generally when he lies, I find out and he gets into EVEN more trouble.

    He did tell me that part of the reason he didn't want to tell me about this business venture was because he was afraid he would fail. I kind of felt for him at that point because I know he really wants to be good at what he does and provide for us. 

    We are not 100% okay but I wouldn't be me if I didn't try to fix things. 

    FLANY I guess we just don't see eye to eye on relationships. To me, the time that I've invested and the love that I have for my fiance makes me want to give it everything I've got before I call it quits. Couples' counseling is not for married people. If it was, they'd call it Marriage Counseling.
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    Baconsmom, my priest isn't huge into the weekend encounters which I'm relieved over bc I've heard they can be lame (and some involve family planning discussions...).  We meet with our priest one on one and then together, just discussing our expectations.  It's a lot more personal, not to mention, works with our schedule.  At first I was hesitant bc I thought, what does he know about marriage???, since he's obviously never been married.  But it's nice just to have a non-partial third party and discuss our different ideas of marriage, commitment, how we want to raise children, etc.  Luckily, FI and I are pretty much on the same page, but the discussions are good and have us talking about other stuff at home. 
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    Courtania, it sounds like you're in a good place!  Good for you for talking things out.  It seems like your FI has his heart in the right place - he wants to be successful and a good provider.  Also, at this age it's tough bc you're just getting your career off the ground. 
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    Thanks Juli. I do appreciate everyone's opinions, though. 
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    *Barbie**Barbie* member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its Name Dropper First Comment
    edited August 2012
    In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_wedding-woes_im-really-upset-like-really-upset-and-this-is-long?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:47Discussion:e4ce49eb-ceec-46ef-85c6-a7acd707d315Post:e2300072-7c47-4ca1-b541-61260693f661">Re: I'm Really Upset. Like REALLY Upset. And This is Long,</a>:
    [QUOTE]Thanks everybody. This is where we stand right now: He says I need to be more understanding about his long hours ahead and how stressful his job is. I agree. <strong>I say he needs to consult with me before making big decisions, including financial ones. He agrees.</strong> I suggested counseling, he said we need to look into it together before we decide. As of right now, the major wedding plans are on hold. Then again, things were taking forever anyway so that's not a big deal. We are still going through with the engagement party on Saturday because we are still engaged. It just may be a longer engagemen than we originally thought.<strong> I've come to realize that I have not made it easy for him to come to me with things because of my trust issues.</strong> I am making an effort to try to be more open and understanding. <strong>He has come to realize that generally when he lies, I find out and he gets into EVEN more trouble.</strong> <strong>He did tell me that part of the reason he didn't want to tell me about this business venture was because he was afraid he would fail.</strong> Posted by CourtaniaLynn[/QUOTE]

    1) i doubt that - he's just saying that to pacify you since you caught him in a lie. I don't think he had any intention of telling you that he spent the money, let alone would have been willing to consult with you in advance.

    2) i'm calling BS. he outright lied to you - on more than one occasion, in a very short period of time. if anything, realizing that you do have issues with trust, he should be going above and beyond to show you that he *is* trustworthy. (E.g. calling to let you know if plans change, discuss large purchases with you before he makes them, discussing his business plans, etc.) Nothing in your OP portrays him as a trustworthy person. He lied about what he was doing, lied about spending the money, brought a stranger into your home, even though he knew you would not be ok with it

    3) He's still lying to you. He didn't tell you because he knew you would not be ok with him spending the money.
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    Barbie, you might be very right about this. And there's a very good chance I'll regret doing this. But for the time being, I'm going to try to make it work. I just have to try. 
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    GBCKGBCK member
    First Anniversary 5 Love Its Name Dropper First Comment
    so...is he going to actually try to earn your trust back?

    like, actively earn?
    by doing things like being transparent about EVERYTHING?

    if he isn't, you should cut your losses
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    Pretty much. I told him upfront it was going to be a long, difficult road ahead for us and that it was going to take a lot of effort on his part.

    Please keep in mind this is only the beginning of this discussion with the two of us. Nothing is set in stone yet! 

    We decided we both need to be upfront, honest and blunt about what we expect from each other. I expect him to tell me things like major purchases, big decisions in terms of his employment and other things that will affect the both of us.

    We still have a lot to work through, which is partly why I want to start counseling together. I think we could benefit having an unbiased third party sit in on these discussions and help us sort things out. We're still young and dumb but I do believe at the end of the day, he loves me and I love him. It's worth a shot. It's not going to hurt me any more or less if two months from now it doesn't work. 
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    You need to stop going through his phone.  Showing him you don't trust him does not make for a good relationship.

    I found it hilarious you needed to mention he talked to a woman!  I would get over that quickly. 

    While I give your FI props for really going out there and trying to bring in income, I hope he isn't trying to start a business with his personal cash.  You should have him check out small business counceling.  Most of these offer free services and a great place to get information for start up and financing.
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