What do you think about your church's music selections? (NWR)

ootmother2

I have two new favorites from yesterday's evening mass.

"How Can I Keep From Singing"

and

"Amazing Grace"

haha, I thought that the first was a song by enya, 90's sometime and it was played at a spa I went to in Utah for yoga classes.

and

I also didn't realize that "Amazing Grace" was originally written by a slave owner in the deep South in 1775 - 1800s.  I think it was by Rees and when he realized how wrong slavery was, he wrote the lyrics.

I'm happier with my church now that the VERY high soprano has been replaced by a male and female altos.  I just don't understand why churches use singers that no one can follow.  How many members of one congregation can sing soprano?
Let's bring it to a pitch that everyone can join!

My thought for the day.

ETA: to correct dates

monkeysip

Well, yesterday my church's music sounded a little more like a renaissance festival than a church.  They were using flutes and all sorts of other instruments.  Not my taste at all... *shrug* 

The songs themselves weren't bad (can't remember what they are now... isn't that sad?).

GeorgiaPeachMarie

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[QUOTE]I'm happier with my church now that the VERY high soprano has been replaced by a male and female altos.  I just don't understand why churches use singers that no one can follow.  How many members of one congregation can sing soprano? Let's bring it to a pitch that everyone can join! My thought for the day.
Posted by ootmother2[/QUOTE]

<div>I completely agree. We swap out lead cantors every week and I dread when one woman leads it. While she has a beautiful voice, it is impossible to sing along with her. She sounds like she is practicing for the opera. I thought the point was for everyone to sing along? I agree!</div>

ootmother2

I'm probably just whining about the soprano singing.  I'm not a singer but at least I realize it.  Sometimes I shudder when the person behing me is as off key as I am.

But I love to sing in church, it's part of the liturgy and I feel left out when I can't follow at least somewhat in key.

Riss91

I hear ya on the high notes - they're just slightly out of my range, and I like to sing, so I'm always jumping octaves to avoid screeching.

Our church has an amazing musical director from Yale, who directs a choir of professional singers (during Latin mass, there is also a volunteer choir for the new masses, a children's choir and a Spanish choir). The music is unbelievable. He's also an exceptional organist and he spends time tracking down old music (from like the 1500s) which he transcribes and resurrects. Our children's schola is singing for the Pope in August!

I actually don't care for many modern-day hymns as I find most of them are very "I" and "me" centric and not about Him, that bothers me.

doctabroccoli

I heart my church's music.  Buuuuut I probably wouldn't be in the choir if I didn't, so maybe I'm a bit biased.

Riss, do you have specific songs you're thinking of?  I don't really agree that modern-day hymns aren't about God.

Meg1036

The choir at my church did an amazing arrangement and rendition of "How Can I Keep from Singing" last spring.  So great, I have tried to buy a recording of the song ever since, and nothing measures up.

ootmother2

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_think-churchs-music-selections-nwr?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:94093195-fdfb-48fd-9566-3b2731b9f5c7Post:678ff367-5541-47d8-af39-dd88d00c9fbe">Re: What do you think about your church's music selections? (NWR)</a>:
[QUOTE]The choir at my church did an amazing arrangement and rendition of "How Can I Keep from Singing" last spring.  So great, I have tried to buy a recording of the song ever since, and nothing measures up.
Posted by Meg1036[/QUOTE]

check out Enya's CDs.  That was where I first heard it.  It's beautiful

doctabroccoli

Yeah, that song can either be absolutely beautiful or a complete mundane trainwreck.

ootmother2

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_think-churchs-music-selections-nwr?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:94093195-fdfb-48fd-9566-3b2731b9f5c7Post:47e8bf15-86c4-4e15-9f4a-9731328f3ea4">Re: What do you think about your church's music selections? (NWR)</a>:
[QUOTE] I actually don't care for many modern-day hymns as I find most of them are very "I" and "me" centric and not about Him, that bothers me.
Posted by Riss91[/QUOTE]

But I thought the point of singing was to express our relationship with God. Or that's what I think.

lalaith50

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_think-churchs-music-selections-nwr?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:94093195-fdfb-48fd-9566-3b2731b9f5c7Post:f83b8c12-c091-4b62-9932-dbdda543bcd3">Re: What do you think about your church's music selections? (NWR)</a>:
[QUOTE]I heart my church's music.  Buuuuut I probably wouldn't be in the choir if I didn't, so maybe I'm a bit biased. Riss, do you have specific songs you're thinking of?  I don't really agree that modern-day hymns aren't about God.
Posted by doctabroccoli[/QUOTE]

<div>Lots of songs make only passing or vague reference to God (spending the rest of the song focusing on "we" or "me,") but a song that comes immediately to mind that has bothered me a lot is "Gather Us in." If I remember correctly (I thankfully haven't sung this in years!) it doesn't even mention God til the last verse, if at all.</div><div>Oh, also that one song that is often used at communion, that is not only musically horrible/boring, something like, "we come to share our story, we come to know our rising from the dead..." or something like that. gag.</div><div>oh, or "All are Welcome." I've only done this one once I think, and since I had the opportunity to pick out certain verses to be used, I seem to remember only half the verses seemed useable from a theological perspective!</div><div>(oh gosh, I could keep going. stop me now...luckily I'm not at home where I would have a hymnal handy; since we don't actually sing God-less songs at my church, I can't nitpick them at the momenth since I'm not familiar enough with them!)</div>

lalaith50

oh yeah, and another one that I can't but help mention since so many people seem to love it so much-- "Let there be peace on earth." 

I mean, peace is nice and all, and it's even a nice song to sing, but really, ask yourself, what does that have to do with worshiping God?

ootmother2

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[QUOTE]oh yeah, and another one that I can't but help mention since so many people seem to love it so much-- "Let there be peace on earth."  I mean, peace is nice and all, and it's even a nice song to sing, but really, ask yourself, what does that have to do with worshiping God?
Posted by lalaith50[/QUOTE]

You know I love you lala, but peace has everything to do with our religion.  "Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with me"

I think it was Mark who quoted that the two most important commandments were to love God with our whole hearts and to love our neighbors as ourselves.

How can we love God if we don't love our fellow man?

agapecarrie

I've heard it talked about many times (not here) with "modern" music with the "I" and "me". The problem with this is that you have to do away with the psalms then, and actually, the psalm antiphons are the preferred things to be singing during the entrance and communion times. The up to date contemporary praise/worship music is usually scripturally based, many times on the psalms.

(how is "contemporary" defined anyway? I have someone telling me they don't like contemporary music and they end up asking for songs chosen from 1980's)

newlyseliski

**Posts a link and runs away**

http://ceciliaschola.org/notes/benedictonmusic.html

doctabroccoli

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[QUOTE]I've heard it talked about many times (not here) with "modern" music with the "I" and "me". The problem with this is that you have to do away with the psalms then, and actually, the psalm antiphons are the preferred things to be singing during the entrance and communion times. The up to date contemporary praise/worship music is usually scripturally based, many times on the psalms. (how is "contemporary" defined anyway? I have someone telling me they don't like contemporary music and they end up asking for songs chosen from 1980's)
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I guess that's what I don't get about what Riss and Lalaith are saying.  I can't think of a song that's not based on scripture or that's not about the Church. Gather Us In and All Are Welcome are both about the Church. All Are Welcome has beautiful words if you think about them (this is from memory, so hopefully I'm not mixing up verses).... "Let us build a house where love can dwell and all can safely live.... A place where saints and children tell how hearts learn to forgive...... Built of hopes and dreams and visions....  Rock of faith and vault of grace..... Here the love of Christ shall end division..... All are welcome, all are welcome, all are welcome in this place."

My all time favorite song is Now in this Banquet (Communion Hymn) not just for the words, but because it is also beautiful musically speaking.  The words to the refrain are "Now in this banquet, Christ is our bread, here shall all hungers be fed.... Bread that is broken, wine that is poured, love is the sign of our Lord." And then a verse is "You who have touched us and graced us with love.... Make us your people of goodness and light." 

One of my other favorites is We Are Called.  "We are called to act with justice...  We are called to love tenderly.....  We are called to serve one another.....  to walk humbly with God...."

So while these songs reference "We", they are most certainly about God.  They are about living our lives as people of God, which is what scripture is all about, so I guess I don't understand why these kinds of songs are "bad".

Riss91

meh, I was asked my opinion.....I prefer sacred music. I didn't say ALL modern hymns were horrible, just some. I think there are many that are beautiful and well-focused, but some of the ones I hear the most make me cringe. And I'm not saying hymns should not contain "I" or "me" phrasing, just that I prefer the focus to be on Him.

doctabroccoli

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[QUOTE]meh, I was asked my opinion.....I prefer sacred music. I didn't say ALL modern hymns were horrible, just some. I think there are many that are beautiful and well-focused, but some of the ones I hear the most make me cringe. And I'm not saying hymns should not contain "I" or "me" phrasing, just that I prefer the focus to be on Him.
Posted by Riss91[/QUOTE]

Maybe you didn't like them because they weren't all that beautiful, musically speaking?  I can think of a few of those that have words with a lot of potential but were just put to ghastly melodies.  I'm not trying to pick a fight here - I enjoy conversations about liturgical music!

doctabroccoli

Oh, and Agape....  Maybe the person you're talking about was confusing "contemporary" with some of the praise and worship songs that are more native to Life Teen masses than regular Sunday masses.  I remember not much caring for some of the music I heard at Life Teen back in the day (we belonged to Assumption in South County at that point).  I know Life Teen is your baby, so sorry .  I just never got into it.

Meg1036

I just wanted to bop back in and say that I find this discussion really interesting.

My mom and I have it sometimes.  She has always been really involved in church choir, and has a degree in vocal performance, so she has taken a lot of time learning about Catholic hymns.  And she and I often disagree on our preferred hymns, so I feel like this is like having a conversation with my mom!

agapecarrie

Assumption in soco awhile ago was not really using the best music choices for their lifeteen mass.... I remember it being pretty cheesy. Greg really struggled with the music dir.

doctabroccoli

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[QUOTE]Assumption in soco awhile ago was not really using the best music choices for their lifeteen mass.... I remember it being pretty cheesy. Greg really struggled with the music dir.
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]

Yeah, he (the music director) was kind of an @ss.....  Oh, sorry, did I say that?  This was back in like 1999-2000ish.  The music was run by the music director and his band, so if you weren't in his band, you couldn't do music for the liturgy.   It was just a big performance for them.  That was a clear case of something secular taking over something that should've been sacred.   Although, that was pretty much my feeling from that parish the whole time we were there......  Everything was thuper thecret clubs, and you couldn't do anything to participate in parish life if you weren't a part of one. I don't know if it's any different now. I jumped ship in 2000 to attend Mary, Mother of the Church with one of my friends from school because they needed a piano accompanist for Teen Choir. My parents stayed at Assumption because my brother was still in school at the time (we moved when I was in high school - we attended Queen of All Saints growing up).  Amusingly enough, my parents are now members of Mary Mother, so that's where I ended up getting married, lol.

Riss91

docta - there are definitely hymns that aren't interesting to me musically and some that turn me off with their lyrics. To clarify: in general the Psalm antiphons make God the subject, "He leads me to still waters." Whereas certain modern hymns make us the subject, "I will hold your people in my heart." It's not a bad message, but I prefer the focus/subject to be Him.

I understand that they appeal to some and perhaps the intent is there, but it falls apart in the execution, in my opinion. I'm happy that they help others grow in their faith, it's just not for me!

doctabroccoli

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[QUOTE]docta - there are definitely hymns that aren't interesting to me musically and some that turn me off with their lyrics. To clarify: in general the Psalm antiphons make God the subject, "He leads me to still waters." Whereas certain modern hymns make us the subject, "I will hold your people in my heart." It's not a bad message, but I prefer the focus/subject to be Him. I understand that they appeal to some and perhaps the intent is there, but it falls apart in the execution, in my opinion. I'm happy that they help others grow in their faith, it's just not for me!
Posted by Riss91[/QUOTE]

Got it :).  I kinda thought that's what you were saying, but I wanted to make sure.  I think our differences that line of thinking probably extend beyond music.  For instance, my faith is personal to me in the sense that the active living of my faith trumps just reading and reflecting on scripture.  I know that is not the case for everyone, and neither way is better than the other.  I know for sure my views are reflected in the hymns I like since I prefer to worship through music.  Kinda like you said - same faith, different execution!

ootmother2

[QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do you think about your church's music selections? (NWR) : Got it :).  I kinda thought that's what you were saying, but I wanted to make sure.  I think our differences that line of thinking probably extend beyond music.  For instance, my faith is personal to me in the sense that the active living of my faith trumps just reading and reflecting on scripture.  I know that is not the case for everyone, and neither way is better than the other.  I know for sure my views are reflected in the hymns I like since I prefer to worship through music.  Kinda like you said - same faith, different execution!

Posted by doctabroccoli[/QUOTE] 

I've attended mass at Star of the Sea in LaJolla several times.  They have a mass that the teenagers in the congregation write the music for.  They sing about their relationships with God and how much joy they feel in God.  It's absolutely awesome what this kids do. 

I do realize that some people dislike this type of mass but there are several other masses there each Sunday.

Looks as though we have divided opinions on church music but I can't see that one is right and one is wrong.  We all have to form our relationship with God as we believe.  I think that the Catholic Church provides many ways for us to do this

agapecarrie

A friend of mine is now the Ym. at Assumption.. he's great...he also does the music. Actually, you probably know him, he was involved way back then too.  It has gotten so big they've hired an assistant y.m.

Riss91

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[QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do you think about your church's music selections? (NWR) : Got it :).  I kinda thought that's what you were saying, but I wanted to make sure. <strong> I think our differences that line of thinking probably extend beyond music.  For instance, my faith is personal to me in the sense that the active living of my faith trumps just reading and reflecting on scripture.  </strong>I know that is not the case for everyone, and neither way is better than the other.  I know for sure my views are reflected in the hymns I like since I prefer to worship through music.  Kinda like you said - same faith, different execution!
Posted by doctabroccoli[/QUOTE]

This seems to imply we disagree on the importance of actively living the faith. I am also of the mindset that actively living the faith is paramount to the collection/memorization of scripture. I hope I am misunderstanding!

doctabroccoli

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_think-churchs-music-selections-nwr?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural Wedding BoardsForum:615Discussion:94093195-fdfb-48fd-9566-3b2731b9f5c7Post:56772763-c29e-4880-81a4-8f8c233e4683">Re: What do you think about your church's music selections? (NWR)</a>:
[QUOTE]A friend of mine is now the Ym. at Assumption.. he's great...he also does the music. Actually, you probably know him, he was involved way back then too.  It has gotten so big they've hired an assistant y.m.
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]

I'm looking at their website....  Don't recognize the name.  I was only there for about a year, though.  I wish there was a picture, lol.  It doesn't look like they do the Sunday night LT mass anymore?

agapecarrie

Their youth mass is now the noon (or closest time to that).

doctabroccoli

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[QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do you think about your church's music selections? (NWR) : This seems to imply we disagree on the importance of actively living the faith. I am also of the mindset that actively living the faith is paramount to the collection/memorization of scripture. I hope I am misunderstanding!
Posted by Riss91[/QUOTE]

Well, as I have it written there you're probably not misunderstanding.  But I am probably not finding the right words :(.  Sooooo many shades of grey within the Church.


Unrelated threadjack - Agape, did you see that Rigali has resigned from his post in Philly?  Makes me said.....  He confirmed me when he was in STL, and I remember there being a lot of respect for him.  The Cleveland Bishop (Lennon) is currently under Apostolic Review for his leadership of the Diocese.  Sad that there is always so much drama.   

doctabroccoli

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[QUOTE]Their youth mass is now the noon (or closest time to that).
Posted by agapecarrie[/QUOTE]

Holy crap, they got guitar guy to retire?  The noon mass used to be run by a single guy playing guitar and singing.  He (and the music he sang) seemed to be straight out of the 60s-70s.  Nice guy, just very set in his ways.