Real Clear Religion reports Father Guarnizo suspended

ootmother2

due to "improper ministry", incompatible with the Church after denying woman communion.

www.realclearreligion.com

NFT

Riss91

Such a shame. Bishops giving in to the media. A priest that we were close with was improperly suspended for political reasons a few years ago. Once Dolan came along, my husband wrote to him and dolan was able to reverse things. It's really sad.

Resa77

It doesn't surprise me.  The bishops in the DC area are very clear that priets aren't allowed to deny people communion.  According to them, it is up to the individual whether they are in the proper state to receive, and that if communion is received by someone who is not in the proper state, the sin is on the receipient, not the priest.

newlyseliski

That's sad... he wasn't actually "suspended" though... it was termed administrative leave.  I hope at some point during this process, Ms. Johnson is forced to examine her role in exacerbating this situation and make an apology of her own.  See the following:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/deaconsbench/2012/03/priest-who-gave-communion-to-lesbian-placed-on-leave-faculties-removed/ 

Riss91

But to be suspended over one instance, is a bit much.

ootmother2

There were additional comments about Fr.Guarnizo not treating ordinary staff according to proper priestly minstry in the article as well.

Frankly, I don't have the ego to call a bishop of the Catholic Church unethical and I'm sorry that you do.

Our religion is always. good but sometimes there are individuals who are not..

Riss91

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_real-clear-religion-reports-father-guarnizo-suspended?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:9b2b66dd-f25d-480a-ac33-6b8fd349e650Post:be2ef559-c678-4691-aa00-6d55be51f461">Re: Real Clear Religion reports Father Guarnizo suspended</a>:
[QUOTE]There were additional comments about Fr.Guarnizo not treating ordinary staff according to proper priestly minstry in the article as well. <strong>Frankly, I don't have the ego to call a bishop of the Catholic Church unethical and I'm sorry that you do.</strong> Our religion is always. good but sometimes there are individuals who are not..
Posted by ootmother2[/QUOTE]

What are trying to say here? I have an ego problem because I'm not certain that bishops always make the right choices? Then you go ahead and say that individuals aren't always good - so isn't that the same thing?

ootmother2

No, that last part wasn't about you.  It was a general comment about the human condtion. We all make mistakes, only God is perfect.


btw, my apologies for using the word " suspended" in my OP.  It was on the original statement on RCR and is still on the article on AOL.  I didn't check other news sources because this is getting out of hand.

Riss91

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_real-clear-religion-reports-father-guarnizo-suspended?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:9b2b66dd-f25d-480a-ac33-6b8fd349e650Post:7db0e604-42a9-419e-a602-04cee67cab00">Re: Real Clear Religion reports Father Guarnizo suspended</a>:
[QUOTE]No, that last part wasn't about you.  It was a general comment about the human condtion. <strong>We all make mistakes, only God is perfect</strong>. btw, my apologies for using the word " suspended" in my OP.  It was on the original statement on RCR and is still on the article on AOL.  I didn't check other news sources because this is getting out of hand.
Posted by ootmother2[/QUOTE]

Completely agree. I also think priests can make mistakes and so can bishops. I hope this priest is given the benefit of the doubt and isn't being punished "for show".

Sorry for misunderstanding your comment!

agapecarrie

It seems from these articles this had absolutely nothing to do with denying communion.

ootmother2

???

ootmother2

Riss,

 The internet news sites have corrected the headlines, leaving out the word "suspended"

I have checked some of the blogs, religious and non and the only straight out immediate support for the priest I saw was when I was directed to TheDailyCougar.com.

I fell off the sofa

mica178

Intimidating the parish staff?  Hmm.

professorscience

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_real-clear-religion-reports-father-guarnizo-suspended?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:9b2b66dd-f25d-480a-ac33-6b8fd349e650Post:a8d88d21-22da-4ff3-8c57-86ac6398672f">Re: Real Clear Religion reports Father Guarnizo suspended</a>:
[QUOTE]???
Posted by ootmother2[/QUOTE]

<div>The second article flat-out says that it wasn't about his denying communion.  I would imagine he would need to be under investigation for some time before they would remove him, unless he committed some grievous error.</div><div>
</div><div>That is sad, though.</div>

Riss91

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_real-clear-religion-reports-father-guarnizo-suspended?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:9b2b66dd-f25d-480a-ac33-6b8fd349e650Post:24fa452b-d35d-4580-ae44-11da1ccd7cc6">Re: Real Clear Religion reports Father Guarnizo suspended</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Real Clear Religion reports Father Guarnizo suspended : The second article flat-out says that it wasn't about his denying communion. <strong> I would imagine he would need to be under investigation for some time before they would remove him, unless he committed some grievous error. </strong>That is sad, though.
Posted by professorscience[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, this isnt true. I've seen a priest stripped of his faculties without warning, without a proper review and without actually doing anything wrong. Completely based on pride and power of the hierarchy.

lalaith50

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_more-to-the-story?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:54419086-94bb-4ab8-9a3f-5667ef865f01Post:1ccb56d2-f198-41bb-827b-eef9977cb4ea">Re: more to the story</a>:
[QUOTE]Riss closed the subject, I believe. <strong>Although I am not at all surprised that you have to have the last word. </strong>May I suggest reading more?  Huffington or the New York Times perhaps, Washington Post or some non religious paper? <strong>Truth is what is desired, no affirmation of another news article. </strong>tia
Posted by ootmother2[/QUOTE]
<div>hmm....</div>

professorscience

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_real-clear-religion-reports-father-guarnizo-suspended?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:9b2b66dd-f25d-480a-ac33-6b8fd349e650Post:0c0e47f6-363a-4c8e-ab04-2cd2d328f0b3">Re: Real Clear Religion reports Father Guarnizo suspended</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Real Clear Religion reports Father Guarnizo suspended : Unfortunately, this isnt true. I've seen a priest stripped of his faculties without warning, without a proper review and without actually doing anything wrong. Completely based on pride and power of the hierarchy.
Posted by Riss91[/QUOTE]

<div>Now THAT is sad.</div>

lalaith50

What the heck are "fuculties?"

newlyseliski

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/cultural-wedding-boards_catholic-weddings_real-clear-religion-reports-father-guarnizo-suspended?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Cultural%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:615Discussion:9b2b66dd-f25d-480a-ac33-6b8fd349e650Post:7db0e604-42a9-419e-a602-04cee67cab00">Re: Real Clear Religion reports Father Guarnizo suspended</a>:
[QUOTE]No, that last part wasn't about you.  It was a general comment about the human condtion. We all make mistakes, only God is perfect. btw, my apologies for using the word " suspended" in my OP.  It was on the original statement on RCR and is still on the article on AOL.  I didn't check other news sources because this is getting out of hand.
Posted by ootmother2[/QUOTE]

<div>The news sources that you sourced termed it incorrectly, not you... I was just clarifying :)  You're not culpable for the holes in the journalists' understanding of diocesan internal affairs.</div>

agapecarrie

Once a priest is ordained, they always keep the "power" to administer sacraments (consecrate Eucharist, anoint, absolve sins, etc), but when their faculties are removed, they no longer have the permission to do so. If someone were to have him marry them, it would be invalid. If he were to say a mass, it would be valid, but illicit, if done publicly. (Sometimes when faculties are removed, they allow priests to celebrate masses in private for themselves-- just depends). 

THe only time he may act as a priest is if someone was in danger of death..he could hear the confession and anoint them.

ETA: Or did you know all this, and were commenting on the typo?

lalaith50

I was commenting on the typo. :-) 

I always find it amusing when typos are in such ridiculously obvious places as titles!

agapecarrie

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/priest-removal-from-ministry-was-tied-to-communion-incident/

lalaith50

Wow, thanks for sharing that. It's great to hear the whole story from the side of the priest. Interesting how he can *prove* that she lied about some details- like how she said she received the cup, but he says they *never* offer the cup at funerals. (At least for me- but I am already susceptible to believing the priest over her in anything where their stories are different- it makes me even *less* likely to believe her. If she lies about some things, why wouldn't she lie about others?)

It strikes me: SHE is the one who first made this a public incident by going to the press. He should have every right to give his side of the story and defend himself. How would it look if HE had gone to the press first and made a big deal about this and said, "This LESBIAN descrated our holy Sacrament! How dare she! She must be a horrible person and I am going to do everything I can to destroy her life!" (Aside from the fact that that never would have worked in the press,) isn't that basically what she did?

newlyseliski

I appreciate his honesty and humility... this situation would have probably been resolved in a better way had it been handled more privately.  It really is sad that his reputation has likely been irreparably damaged by this incident, whether or not he is able to regain his priestly faculties.  What speaks to his character is that he isn't pointing fingers or demanding forgiveness from anyone... the diocese and Ms. Johnson have unintentionally created a martyr of sorts.

sbelle85

This situation and its aftermath are very troubling and disappointing to me. It sickens me that the church can't/won't even stand up for its own beliefs in the face of pressure and criticism from special interest groups. This woman was openly and knowingly living in a state of sin. She was not eligible for the Eucharist, and both she and the priest were aware of that. This wasn't someone who was hurt - it was someone who was trying to make a political statement at the expense of the Church's credibility, and unfortunately she succeeded. It's a slap in the face to all Catholics of good standing that the priest was admonished for not allowing her to receive communion. What that says is basically that the rules and beliefs associated with the Eucharist are irrelevant. If priests are not allowed to deny those who are living in an open and persistent state of sin or otherwise don't qualify, then it's a free for all, just like in the Protestant church, and not a privilege for Catholics in good standing.

By not backing up the priest in this situation, they are creating a very dangerous slippery slope.

lalaith50

sbelle- while I agree with you in theory, you might be interested in reading a bit more about this, especially a bit more of a dissection of how or why or when conditions are met that would allow a priest to make such a decision, from the viewpoint of a very respected canon lawyer, Dr. Ed Peters.

Here's a few of the many posts he's made on the matter:

(in chronological order)

http://canonlawblog.wordpress.com/2012/02/29/note-on-the-lesbian-communion-case-3/

http://canonlawblog.wordpress.com/2012/03/01/a-thought-exercise-occasioned-by-the-lesbiancommunion-controversy/

http://canonlawblog.wordpress.com/2012/03/13/three-recent-questions-in-the-wake-of-the-lesbiancommunion-controvery/

http://canonlawblog.wordpress.com/2012/03/15/1733/

http://canonlawblog.wordpress.com/2012/03/17/a-brief-thought-on-the-phrase-manifest-sin-in-canon-915/