I know I need to be more tolerant,

mwhitson14

but I'm sorta like ermmm. I had a student that's been out of my classroom all week, but will be back in there tomorrow. We got an email stating he's been diagnosed with ODD and they're adjusting his meds.

I mean, really? ODD? Is that for real? Because it sounds like something every kid goes through at one time or another.

• Frequent temper tantrums
• Excessive arguing with adults
• Often questioning rules
• Active defiance and refusal to comply with adult requests and rules
• Deliberate attempts to annoy or upset people
• Blaming others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior
• Often being touchy or easily annoyed by others
• Frequent anger and resentment
• Mean and hateful talking when upset
• Spiteful attitude and revenge seeking

http://aacap.org/page.ww?name=Children+with+Oppositional+Defiant+Disorder&section=Facts+for+Families

Snippylynn

Well, I just mean, if he's doing it uncontrollably, and he doesn't WANT to be like that, it's different.  Right?  Or... something.  I don't know.  I'm just up trying to wait for my sister to have her damn baby already.

mwhitson14

Celles, I see your point, but I swear my brother acted that way from 16-18, and he's (mostly) a good kids now. No one ever said, hey throw some meds his way and he'll get better. It was more, he's just being a boy.

ACK. I also have a kid coming back next week that was expelled from his last school for tying up a teacher. BUT he's SPED so he can't be in alternative school for an extended amount of time, and I'm an inclusion teacher, so he'll be coming to me. I'M NOT READY!

mwhitson14

Oh lynn, I'm getting what you're saying now. Yeah. I don't know. I haven't been around him long enough to fully know him, so we'll see how he acts when he returns.

New MIL

We had a kindergarten student in our building last year that was diagnosed with ODD.  Our psychologist said that, while there are actual physical changes in the brain it is one of very few conditions that can be directly attributed to a lack of good parenting.

Snippylynn

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_need-tolerant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:00adeca7-303d-47a5-94e0-1370fb1381cbPost:a8e1cd92-e038-4ad2-92af-dba18db54638">Re: I know I need to be more tolerant,</a>:
[QUOTE]Oh lynn, I'm getting what you're saying now. Yeah. I don't know. I haven't been around him long enough to fully know him, so we'll see how he acts when he returns.
Posted by mwhitson14[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I didn't make it very clear.  Let's maybe we should go for Snippy though. ;)

mica178

Everyone is defiant or contrary or oppositional once in a while.  Is this kid's opposition so bad that it is keeping him from having a normal life?  Is he getting into trouble so often that he misses significant class time and is doing poorly on tests?  Do other kids not want to be friends with him because he's so argumentative or vindictive?  Is he grounded by his parents so often that he can't do any after school activities?  If so, then yes, he really has the disorder.

Over-diagnosing is an issue with a lot of kids.  ADHD, Asperger's, even bipolar are diagnoses handed out like candy by some therapists.  Some parents actually seek these diagnoses for their kids because they want an medical excuse for their kids' bad behavior.  It's a shame because it reduces the seriousness of the true diagnosis and mislabels an otherwise healthy kid.

Celles

Think of it as the difference between your typical moody teenager and that awful kid on House who everyone thought had some kind of  disease but was actually just a brat.  

mwhitson14

snippy, can do! I wasn't sure.

New MIL, that's what I was wondering! I was sitting in with a counselor (and other teachers) who was meeting with a parent and she tried very hard to impress upon the mom that she's got to stay consistent with him at home too (i.e., we punish him for something, and she follows through with a punishment as well). Didn't go over too well.

mica, I can answer a few of those questions, which is why I was wondering if they were serious about ODD. He has plenty of friends; he can be the sweetest kids 3 out of 5 days and the other students love him. He doesn't tend to be argumentative with anyone other than teachers. He plays football, so he tends to keep his grades up.

mwhitson14

Ha Celles, I must have missed that episode! I do love me some House though.

Ahh goodness. I'm off to see my friend's baby but thanks for chatting with me ladies. I'm hoping things go ok with him.

missy68

I had a student with that diagnosis, and she was treated properly - I never had a problem with her. In fact, we were floored to see it in her old records .

Don't go into either situation with a negative attitude. Pretend like you've never seen either file, and you may have much better luck. You may not, but you've got a better shot at it. Students feed off the energy teachers put out - that's for damn sure.

kaesha

I teach one full spec ed class (6 behavioural kids, all with diagnosises) amongst my other regular classes (which have 1 or 2 spec ed kids in them) and it's hard. Know your rules, stick to them and let the office deal with the rest. That sucks about the mum though - without parental support, a tough job becomes tougher.

JulieSmiles

I think the fact that you said that he is great some days and a terror other days proves that it is something medical going on. If it was a choice, he would (most likely) be good or bad every day. He probably cannot control the days that he is argumentative. I teach special ed and this is something that I have heard about a lot but have not actually had a student with it. The other sped teacher in my school has a student right now and he cannot control it. I think kids are often overmedicated, but at the same time, if a child needs it, give it to them.

***Stepping off my soapbox.***

Simply Fated

I just refuse to believe the validity of this disorder. It's like, instead of blaming bad parenting or just the kid being difficult, they are labelling it something fancy so the kids can get away with acting the way they do.
I have dealt with kids who have ADD and you can clearly see the kids who legitimately have problems and those who are misdiagnosed.
I see a lot of kids being misdiagnosed with ODD in the near future.

flyjawn

i dont think overdianosis would be such a problem is if meant kids got the assistance they needed to learn to cope. adapt and manage.  but what it tends to mean (as in this case it seems) is that kids get put on meds.

meds are a great solution for serious illnesses that can't be managed through other forms of therapy.  ODD, ADD, Aspergers, FASD, etc, can all be managed (at least partially) through various forms of therapy.  and i agree that parents need to be part of the solution, not just the deliverers of the daily does of adderall.

i've seen amazing results from dietary changes and i've found that when parents eliminate things like refined sugars from their kids diet, they have different children.  polite, manageable and likable.  take those kids trick or treating and you end up with monsters that are out of control.

crfische

This thread makes me angry. So i'll just stay over here and shut up.

JessAndTrav

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_need-tolerant?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:00adeca7-303d-47a5-94e0-1370fb1381cbPost:72080311-4b7f-4103-89f7-a3899907ff90">Re: I know I need to be more tolerant,</a>:
[QUOTE]This thread makes me angry. So i'll just stay over here and shut up.
Posted by crfische[/QUOTE]

That sucks, because once I started reading this thread, I was hoping that you'd expand on it. <img src="http://cdn.cl9.vanillaforums.com/downloaded/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-undecided.gif" border="0" alt="Undecided" title="Undecided" /> True story.

J&K10910

If ODD didn't exist, I wouldn't have a job.  

beatlesgirl25

I'm with Fishy and J&K.

mica178

Hey Whit,

I asked my FI about ODD, and he said that even if the kid's mother won't set boundaries with the kid, you can actually make a difference in the kid's behavior.  ODD kids apparently feel safer in environments where there are set rules and consequences for their actions, and this helps them learn to control their behavior.  If you can be a consistent disciplinarian for him, you can at least make his school day a safe place for him.  And that can make the difference (even if at home it's inconsistent and chaotic) from this kid progressing to an antisocial psychopath and him becoming a relatively normal teen.

Or you could recommend military school.  I guess ODD kids do well in token societies too, so military school works well for them.

You can do it!