Vendor Dilemma

kelnash89

I booked a photographer for our engagment pictures that was close to the site of our e-pics (It wasn't close to where we live or are from, but meant a lot to my FH). She had done a shoot with a theme very similar to the one I was visioning. Anyway, my fiance really liked her price ($750 for e-pics + wedding), so he paid her for the e-pics and the entire wedding fee up front.

However, once we got the engagement pictures, I was really disappointed in them. The poses were awkward, our hair was out of place and my shirt was not laying right. Things that I would have hoped a photographer would have taken care to fix.

FH and I did really click with her personality-wise and felt comfortable in front of the camera. But then it took her three times as long as she originally told us to post our pictures to her site and even longer to mail the CD.

After doing some more research, I saw that she claims to be a "natural light" photographer, which is great for outdoor e-pics. But not so great for an indoor, late evening, Decemeber wedding (read: it will be DARK!). So I also have some concerns about that.

So basically I was having second thoughts and was thinking I could just ask for my money back minus the cost of the e-pics. We never signed a paper contract (which I now realize was a mistake. Live and learn I guess)

Then the wedding gods complicated the issue further by blessing the FH and I with a free photography package from a really talented photographer and her second shooter. They are in another state and we would have to cover their travel expenses and hotel. This will probably come out to be around $1000.

Can I ask the first photgrapher for our money back? Or do we just eat the cost and tell her we found someone else? Or do I tell the fantastic photographer we can't accept the prize? Help!! Photography is so imporant to me.

[Deleted User]

Tell her you were disappointed and that you would like your money back for the wedding. She should be able to give you the amount minus the e-pics back. I would tell her the truth when she asks as well so she can maybe do better in the future. 

RaptorSLH

All of the reasons you have pointed out - the lack of contract, the lack of attention to detail, unwillingness to use lighting when appropriate, the delay - are all valid reasons to question her professionalism.  Even the price is too good to be true.

Ask for your money back, but without a written, signed contract, be aware that you don't have much leverage if she refuses, except perhaps negative reviews.  Start making other plans for your wedding photographer, because it is unlikely your e-pic shooter will improve for your ceremony.

The good news is, without a contract, she also has little leverage to force you to fork over details of the wedding day, or to prevent you hiring somene else.  So if you can afford the new package - and the research as to his professionalism and quality of work check out - go ahead and book him.

chelseamb11

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_vendor-dilemma?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:05681bb4-baaf-4ed9-beda-8e4bde5d0dd3Post:b894d8ab-ef26-4884-9b96-b0dac6bbedab">Re: Vendor Dilemma</a>:
[QUOTE]All of the reasons you have pointed out - the lack of contract, the lack of attention to detail, unwillingness to use lighting when appropriate, the delay - are all valid reasons to question her professionalism.  <strong>Even the price is too good to be true.</strong> Ask for your money back, but without a written, signed contract, be aware that you don't have much leverage if she refuses, except perhaps negative reviews.  Start making other plans for your wedding photographer, because it is unlikely your e-pic shooter will improve for your ceremony. The good news is, without a contract, she also has little leverage to force you to fork over details of the wedding day, or to prevent you hiring somene else.  So if you can afford the new package - and the research as to his professionalism and quality of work check out - go ahead and book him.
Posted by RaptorSLH[/QUOTE]


Depends on the area.  There are plenty of photogs in my area that do full day coverage plus e-pics for under a grand.

Either way, I wouldn't have this woman do your photos.  Did you write her a check at least?  Or was it cash?  I'd just be honest with her.  She can't improve if she doesn't get feedback.  Tell her you were not pleased with her photography and that you have won another package that you will beusing instead.  Then ask her for your money back minus the e-shoot.  How far out are you from your wedding?  If yuou're close to your wedding date, I'd recomment offering her still 20% of the wedding cost, because she did keep that date open for you.  If you're far enough away, then you should be fine.  I'm shocked she doesn't do contracts.  Not only does it protect you, it protects her too.

kelnash89

I think the contract thing is because she is still a student. And our wedding is in December. But maybe the 20% is a good idea.

RaptorSLH

Ah, that explains the price and the service.  (Chelsea, you could be right, but the low end in my area is double that for e-pics plus, and only covers part of the wedding day, unless you add extras.  And we are not, in other respects, an expensive area.)

If she is a student, I would be more inclined to give the benefit of the doubt, until she responds.  At least, I imagine a student would be more receptive to criticism than a disreputable professional.

NOLAbridealmost

I think 1000 for travel and lodging for the photographer you won plus the 750 you might eat for the original photographer is still a fair price for photography in general and you should just eat the 750 and call it a day. 

At the end of the day, you hired a student photographer at a very reduced rate. The fact that she's a student should have put you on notice that the work might not be as high quality as with an experienced professional.  Her work might not be fabulous, but it will be really hard to prove that it was deficient enough to be considered a breach of contract worthy of a refund. You should ask her for the refund anyway, but if she gives you a refund it sounds like she'd be doing you a favor or is just too naive to realize that she probably doesn't have to. 

chelseamb11

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_vendor-dilemma?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:05681bb4-baaf-4ed9-beda-8e4bde5d0dd3Post:bb46cea8-2cc3-467e-ba63-a687d6fca028">Re: Vendor Dilemma</a>:
[QUOTE]I think 1000 for travel and lodging for the photographer you won plus the 750 you might eat for the original photographer is still a fair price for photography in general and you should just eat the 750 and call it a day.  At the end of the day, you hired a student photographer at a very reduced rate. The fact that she's a student should have put you on notice that the work might not be as high quality as with an experienced professional.  Her work might not be fabulous, but it will be really hard to prove that it was deficient enough to be considered a breach of contract worthy of a refund. You should ask her for the refund anyway, but if she gives you a refund it sounds like she'd be doing you a favor or is just too naive to realize that she probably doesn't have to. 
Posted by NOLAbridealmost[/QUOTE]
OP isn't looking for a refund for the work already done.  She just wants to get out of the rest of the "contract" and get the money back for the wedding that she no longer wants her to shoot.

kelnash89

Chelsea is correct. I don't intend to get the whole $750 back, just the portion for the work she hasn't done.

davenport52803

I hate to say it, but when you hire a student, this is the kind of thing that can happen. And a reason why you should always get a contract. Since what is good or bad is subjective, I think its hard to prove she is "bad". Like others have said, you can ask but dont be suprised if she refuses.

entropicbeauty

Being that you are unhappy with the quality of her work, I would definitely sit down with the photographer and explain WHY you're unhappy and then ask for a partial refund for the work that hasn't been done yet. If she is an honest person she will give you some of your money back.

If she refuses to give your money back you have 2 options - you can tell her that you still expect her to be there to photograph your wedding and just use her as superfluous photos and angles to supplement what your main photographers are doing, OR you can threaten legal action (note: you do not have a foot to stand on in a court of law, but if you threaten a student with legal action you'd be surprised how effective it can be)

I would NOT just "eat the cost" of this photographer. I certainly don't have money lying around and I'm betting you don't want to just throw money away.

jessicabessica

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_vendor-dilemma?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:05681bb4-baaf-4ed9-beda-8e4bde5d0dd3Post:83271218-214d-485c-af5e-3eb58126c786">Re: Vendor Dilemma</a>:
[QUOTE]Being that you are unhappy with the quality of her work, I would definitely sit down with the photographer and explain WHY you're unhappy and then ask for a partial refund for the work that hasn't been done yet. If she is an honest person she will give you some of your money back. If she refuses to give your money back you have 2 options - <strong>you can tell her that you still expect her to be there to photograph your wedding and just use her as superfluous photos and angles to supplement what your main photographers are doing</strong>, OR you can threaten legal action (note: you do not have a foot to stand on in a court of law, but if you threaten a student with legal action you'd be surprised how effective it can be) I would NOT just "eat the cost" of this photographer. I certainly don't have money lying around and I'm betting you don't want to just throw money away.
Posted by entropicbeauty[/QUOTE]

Be careful with the bolded part.  Many professional photographers require you to agree that they will be the only hired photographer. 

OP, I would try to get some of the money back by explaining to the student photog why you are not happy with the photos.  I would be prepared to eat the cost, though, if she won't give you any money back.  You both made mistakes by not having a contract--you and your FI gave her $750 without a written agreement of what the money covered--so if she won't give anything back, write a negative review and consider it a learning experience for all parties involved. 

davenport52803

Also, i know that with alot of the photographers we looked at the engagement photos were just part of the package, so how are you going to decide on a fair price if it was all on package.

kelnash89

We negotiated a price for the engagement pictures seperately and then she told me what she charged for e-pics plus a wedding. The package saved us $50.