Is it ever ok to say something?

krizzo17

So, I guess this is a question about the etiquette regarding someone else's etiquette. My brother in law is drives me crazy. He is 22 years old and largely refuses to speak (even when spoken to). Last night, he came with his parents for dinner at our place, and spoke three times: I asked him if he'd like a drink, and he said "no". I asked him if I could get him a plate, and he said "yes." Later, he took a nap, and came back to find a piece of pie at his place setting, to which he said "why did you give me pie?".

Really, I don't care if you don't feeling like joining in the conversation, but is a "yes, please," and "no, thank you" so much to ask? His family seems to think this behavior is funny, but as a hostess, I just find it annoying.

Thoughts? Advice? Suggestions?

misssunshine17

Ditto PP. I'm curious if you've had problems with him before? I know I (unintentionally) get quiet if there is tension of any kind. 

thejucheidea

Are you certain that this just isn't his normal response to people he doesn't know well? For all you know, he could even possibly be on the autism spectrum and have a hard time responding in what you think is a socially acceptable way but his nearest and dearest think he's doing a great job coming out of his shell with someone he doesn't know well. As someone who has not known him for long in the grand scheme of things, I don't think that you're in a position to speak to him yourself for something you don't like. Bring it up with your husband and if he feels the need to say something to his brother, he will. Leave it at that. It's not like your BIL is doing something to hurt anyone.

kmmssg

Yeah, I'm curious as to if he has social skill issues, social anxiety.  Has your DH ever mentioned anything about that?

krizzo17

I think he definitely has social issues, my my inlaws refuse to acknowledge it, and I certainly don't think that's my place to intervene. I've had to go over a lot of social issues with my husband that he seemed to miss growing up (you can't just announce "I'm bored" at a party and expect me to leave, or tell someone their food is gross at dinner, etc. The reason we're still together is because when I explain to him why this isn't ok, he gets it.)

They kind of think it's just his personality. BiL has known me 6 years now and this is always typical, so it's definitely not a new thing. I don't want to lecture him on it, I would just feel a little more supported if he rudeness was met with any sort of reaction from anyone... The general consensus is that he communicates just fine with the people he plays video games with, so he's ok.

I think I'm just going to let my husband know that I'd appreciate it if he at least said something to his brother about the way he speaks to me (or doesn't, and gives blank stares). I think it's everyone's lack of acknowledging that this is not normal, cute, or funny that annoys me more than the actual behavior itself.

Thanks everyone!

dtbluv

I agree with all PPs.

Also, even if there aren't any medically oriented social issues (Asperger's, SAD, et cetera) he could just be having a hard time in his life.  22 is about the age many people finish college, and if he's just out of school he might be really stressed about finding a job.  Or if he didn't go to school/isn't finishing with his friends he could be seeing everyone else finish and that stresses him out/depresses him.  Just talk to your DH about it, but don't come out the doors swinging.  Instead of saying something like, "Your brother is super rude and it pisses me off!" try to be supportive, not of BIL's rudeness, but of the fact that one of your new family members seems to be having a hard time.  Maybe say something like "Hey, at the last family gathering I noticed _______ wasn't enjoying himself, he even seemed a little abrupt.  Is there something going on there?  What can I do to change this situation?"

You can't force of change of BIL's behavior, but you can change how you react to it and if there's a way to get him to open up around you, your DH might have suggestions.

krizzo17

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_is-it-ever-ok-to-say-something?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:0ea2e7f2-1a1d-4ab8-85fa-582330e4aed5Post:e2b9212a-25b8-4e18-b53b-a4c3a31ae767">Re: Is it ever ok to say something?</a>:
[QUOTE]I agree with all PPs. Also, even if there aren't any medically oriented social issues (Asperger's, SAD, et cetera) he could just be having a hard time in his life.  22 is about the age many people finish college, and if he's just out of school he might be really stressed about finding a job.  Or if he didn't go to school/isn't finishing with his friends he could be seeing everyone else finish and that stresses him out/depresses him.  Just talk to your DH about it, but don't come out the doors swinging.  Instead of saying something like, "Your brother is super rude and it pisses me off!" try to be supportive, not of BIL's rudeness, but of the fact that one of your new family members seems to be having a hard time.  Maybe say something like "Hey, at the last family gathering I noticed _______ wasn't enjoying himself, he even seemed a little abrupt.  Is there something going on there?  What can I do  to change this situation?" You can't force of change of BIL's behavior, but you can change how you react to it and if there's a way to get him to open up around you, your DH might have suggestions.
Posted by dtbluv[/QUOTE]

We've already had that conversation, I was pretty much met with "that's just the way he's always been," which is why I'm kind of feeling like I want someone to say something to him (and I realize it shouldn't be me).

s-aries8990

He sounds like he has social issues, and I suggest that you talk to DH about some sort of "therapy"- I have a brother with autism NOS and my mother forced him to be involved with others in person- sports, scouts, volunteering, and made sure that he will continue to work at a local grocery store bagging groceries as part of his "therapy." Does BIL have a job? Has he ever held a job in a customer-service type industry- restaurant/retail? Smething like that will (gently) force him to speak more.
I think that this is something DH has to do, and he needs to bring it up to his parents too.

krizzo17

Ok, so as I'm talking about this I'm realizing that what bothers me about this is not actually BiL (since either something is wrong, or he's just never been told any better) but everyone elses lack of reaction/acknowledgement. I think I'm just going to let my husband know that need to know how to better interact with his brother so I don't feel so awkward - whether it be him saying something to his brother about the way he speaks to me, or if there's a different way I need to approach him. Either way, I think more of what I'm looking for is some validation (or support, or something?) that I'm not the one who should feel awkward and rude whenever I acknowledge his brother.
Thanks for all the advice!

s-aries8990

You shouldn't feel awkward or rude for trying to have a conversation with BIL. It's not you. If BIL has "something," or nothing, exposure to normalcy is a good thing. Don't feel bad about trying to talk to him or get an answer for him. Also, ask DH about the best way to interact with BIL- you're on the right track.

krizzo17

I don't mind if he isn't interested in joining in a conversation, what makes me feel awkward is if I say "so, did you have fun at that concert you went to last weekend?" and he just stares at me, as though I'm a moron for even asking.

krizzo17

yup. Everyone else laughs it off, I'm apparently the only one who doesn't take that approach, hence why I feel awkward.

emeejeeayen

One of my FBIL's does this, but I'm incredibly socially awkward myself, so I understand. He's about 19. My FI, FMIL and I tried getting him drunk at a concert once. That didn't help. I think some people just cannot step outside themselves. I think you just need to make an effort to deal with your own feelings and worry less about this kid's social issues. He'll deal with them when he's ready, if ever. 

TheVirginians

Here's your validation and support from me that it is not you. I think you need to talk to your husband some more to get his validation and support that it's not you. Perhaps he can offer you some more insight into the BIL's behavior and/or offer to tell the BIL and his parents that you are hurt. Nothing wrong with admitting you're hurt and asking him to ask others to try not to hurt you.

krizzo17

haha even I'll admit I'm not hurt, I'm just annoyed. And mostly at everyone else's reaction that this is funny behavior, not rude or even possibly concerning. And frustrated at the thought of spending half of my holidays for the rest of my life sitting across from someone who can't say "yes please" or "no thank you"

KellyBrian2013

As a special educator, it sounds like he has some sort of ASD and, especially considering he acts this way with everyone, you need to suck it up and let it go.

Seriously. It's not like he threw the pie on the floor and kicked your dog on his way to take a nap

krizzo17

I'm not arguing that his behavior doesn't indicate a larger problem, or even that I should say something. It just feels weird that everyone else thinks this is funny/cute/normal.

zantster

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_is-it-ever-ok-to-say-something?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:0ea2e7f2-1a1d-4ab8-85fa-582330e4aed5Post:8b42d32d-5842-405b-bf44-5f7b4b2c5788">Re: Is it ever ok to say something?</a>:
[QUOTE]haha even I'll admit I'm not hurt, I'm just annoyed. And mostly at everyone else's reaction that this is funny behavior, not rude or even possibly concerning. And frustrated at the thought of spending half of my holidays for the rest of my life sitting across from someone who can't say "yes please" or "no thank you"
Posted by krizzo17[/QUOTE]
I think it may be helpful to take personal inventory of the specific things BIL does that annoys you and then modify your own actions whenever possible to minimize being annoyed.  For example, you put a piece of pie at his place setting and he asked why it was put there.  Take that as a lesson or as I like to call them "mental notes."  So next time you're hosting, you can feel free to give others a piece who have asked for it and not voluntarily put one by his spot until it's requested.  Also, beyond the usual greetings of hello, nice to see you, there's no reason to try to initiate conversations with him.  Let him do the initiating or if you do, then do so knowing you take the risk of being met with blank stares.  Give him all the information he needs e.g. "dinner/dessert is ready and I'd be more than happy to fix your plate when you're ready."  Put the ball in his court in a way that doesn't require him to respond and keep living your life stress free.  I think this is a more immediate way to handle things than hoping someone else can make him change.  But you can always do both to cover all bases and so your DH will be aware of why you felt the need to change things up a bit where BIL is concerned to preserve peace.   

krizzo17

1. I will admit I'm overreacting, it's just been annoying me all day and I can't figure out why.

2. Points to zantster for advice I'm most likely to follow/makes the most sense to me.

zantster

Great! I'm happy that made sense to you. It might take a bit of practice to modify yourself in the beginning but once it becomes a habit and you busy yourself with other things and other people so he's not even on your mind you'll be surprised how quickly things can turn around for the good. 

TheVirginians

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_is-it-ever-ok-to-say-something?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:0ea2e7f2-1a1d-4ab8-85fa-582330e4aed5Post:ba65d293-007b-44d5-8a6e-86d8ea12b07b">Re: Is it ever ok to say something?</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is it ever ok to say something? : But how are the others hurting her?  They don't try to change him, and I don't think they should.  Maybe he just doesn't like to talk.
Posted by Edie Bee[/QUOTE]


EdieBee,
Guess I didn't make myself clear. The "other" that she feels hurt by is the BIL.

Summer2011Bride

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_is-it-ever-ok-to-say-something?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:0ea2e7f2-1a1d-4ab8-85fa-582330e4aed5Post:a43a4e37-35a2-4033-ba70-e7f992644679">Re: Is it ever ok to say something?</a>:
[QUOTE]If that's how he responds to everyone, and he's an adult, then I think you're just being too sensitive and need to accept it.  Whether he's autistic or just anti social, you don't get to try and change other people to suit how you think they should behave. <strong> He isn't doing anything outright mean or being directly rude to you, so I'd let it go.  </strong>
Posted by StageManager14[/QUOTE]

Eh I think if I said hi to someone or directly asked them a question and they didn't bother to respond at all, I would find that rude. I have students who, when you say hi to them in the hall, they keep on walking right past you (even though they heard you), and I've pulled them aside and told them that this behavior comes across as rude. I was raised that you just don't blatantly ignore someone who asks you a question.

I also say this as someone who's BIL is also 22 (coincidentally) and acts like OP's. He has gotten better over time, but I have known him for ten years now and for a long time, he would grunt responses (to everyone, not just me), act very anti-social around everyone except his good friends, and overall just didn't have good social skills. With him, I think it improved with age.  He has gotten much better in the past few years and I think his recent girlfriend helped a lot too. But basically, OP I don't think you should say anything to BIL, but I get where you are coming from and would find it rude as well.

Rachel987

I completely understand, my FBIL does the same thing and is 19...only he lives with us. Talk about akward. The rest of his family just makes excuses for his behavoir and says he MAY have mild autism but refused to ever have him tested- this is such a disservice to him. Its been a constant source of tension for my FH and I. I say he's rude, lazy and ungrateful and my other half says thats how he has always been. 

Its not an easy situation and having to have him live with us I am more than sympathetic to your situation. You just have to know it's not you. You cannot change his behavoir and it is not because of you that he behaves this way.