Field trip! And a poll.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

http://community.thenest.com/cs/ks/forums/thread/46741790.aspx

This woman is thinking about breaking off her engagement because she and her FI just moved in together and he's a slob. Most posters are saying DTMF. My stance is that relationships and communication are, uh, hard, and there's sometimes a pretty steep learning curve when you combine life styles. What says you?

Edit: some people are saying that not cleaning proves he doesn't respect her. I'm not willing to jump to that conclusion without more information.

Beachy730

H and I are both relatively clean people, but we have different things we focus on.  He likes everything to be in it's place, so he gets annoyed when my purse is on the table or something and not on the shelf by the door where it "belongs."  And I get really annoyed with a dirty kitchen, so it drives me nuts when he just puts the dishes in the sink but not the dishwasher.  We will bitch at each other for leaving messes, but it would never be cause for a divorce, and we just clean up after the other because one is more annoyed at looking at it than the other.

redheadfsu

We have different cleaning styles, but we work it out. Of course we have had a few  little "fights" about it, but we work it out.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

Yeah, I mentioned that DH has his tasks because he can't look at a room and see that it's cluttered - so because that's more my "thing" I just do it. And they accuse me of saying that being messy is a "guy thing" and she shouldn't have to clean up after him. Um, okay. 

[Deleted User]

I agree with you mery. While she only has a month to go, I would hate to think she would be that stupid to call off the wedding due to something so insignificant. I also think it should have been discussed and figured out by now considering they have lived together for 5 months. Surely, they can work through it.

I know it was hard when FI and I first moved in together, but we worked through things. He knew my cleaning, neat freak style and tries to respect it. Of course, we both get lazy every once in while or have busy weeks where the house is a wreck, but that is just life.

salt78

Cleaning styles is definitely not a deal breaker and anyone who wants to use that as an excuse to break up probably has other issues with the relationship that they aren't telling us about.

kellyjellybelly

well if H was a hoarder or something, and unwilling to work on that, then yeah, probably deal breaker.  But like Salt said, if he was a hoarder, there are other issues going on.

H is not a cleaner.  And that's ok with me - it gets done the way I want this way  Not that he doesn't ever clean, but it would never occur to him to dust if I didn't ask him to.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_field-trip-poll?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:2a53f160-dea2-4038-8cd9-e9a050234198Post:d0c702d3-d90c-4451-8bb0-9b925f90e8b4">Re: Field trip! And a poll.</a>:
[QUOTE]well if H was a hoarder or something, and unwilling to work on that, then yeah, probably deal breaker.  But like Salt said, if he was a hoarder, there are other issues going on. H is not a cleaner.  And that's ok with me - it gets done the way I want this way :)  Not that he doesn't ever clean, but it would never occur to him to dust if I didn't ask him to.
Posted by kellyjellybelly[/QUOTE]

<div>
</div><div>Right! Just because the whole "is wouldn't occur to me to clean that" thing mostly happens with guys, doesn't necessarily mean it's a "guy thing". ;-) I mean, I've accepted that my house will never be as clean/organized as my parents' house, but that because both my parents were huge neat freaks and my husband is not a huge neat freak. Not because he's a guy, just because that's how he is. </div>

mkrupar

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_field-trip-poll?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:2a53f160-dea2-4038-8cd9-e9a050234198Post:5ff936c3-1a58-40d8-b1df-9ddc83b5a96c">Re: Field trip! And a poll.</a>:
[QUOTE]Yeah, I mentioned that DH has his tasks because he can't look at a room and see that it's cluttered - so because that's more my "thing" I just do it. And they accuse me of saying that <strong>being messy is a "guy thing"</strong> and she shouldn't have to clean up after him. Um, okay. 
Posted by msmerymac[/QUOTE]

I hate that generalization. I know plenty of guys that hate unclean or messy rooms. Just saying it's a guy thing is like saying no guy is interested in wedding planning.

I definitely don't think this would be something to end an engagement over. Boundaries need to be set and they need to stick to them.

I'm like DNB's H, I hate clutter and don't like things being out of place (drives me nuts when Lucas puts away dishes, pots with the plates, knives in the utensil drawer), but if it annoys me that much I'll take care of it. He's good about cleaning if I ask him to.

His office is a mess, but it's his office. I don't use it, and I don't have to find things in there. If it were my office it would drive me batty.

kellyjellybelly

i grew up with a neat freak mother.  h did not.  at all.  so i really just think he never learned how to clean properly.  He saw me cleaning the light switches once and thought i was crazy.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

I guess I'm coming from the perspective that everything else in their relationship must be pretty good  - otherwise they wouldn't be a month away from their wedding. 

tenofcups4me

I think most people have some differences in style to work out when they first move in together, whether it's clutter vs. non-clutter or how clean is acceptable or how often to clean or whatever. My style and DH's style mesh pretty well, but we periodically have to revisit certain things.  

But it does sound like that poster has a BIG problem. If he won't do anything, at all, ever... yeah, I'd have to seriously consider whether or not I wanted to tie my life to his permanently. From her post, it sounds like maintaining the house has fallen entirely to her, and that's not something she wants or agreed to. I'd consider that a big problem.

Anysunrise

Did they all miss the post where she said "he just got back, apologized for being gone all day and is now cleaning the bathroom"?

tenofcups4me

I did see that post at the end. Hard to know what that means though if this is the first time in 6 months of asking that he's actually doing it. Has he turned a corner? Or is it a one-time deal? Along with that info, though, I also saw that he was working till 1, didn't come home till 5, didn't call her to tell or answer any of her calls or texts. Apparently he was doing her a favor, but I'd still be furious if DH was 4 hours late with no communication. So there's that too... No idea if that's also part of his pattern or a one-time f up, but that's inexcusable in my book.

Anysunrise

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_field-trip-poll?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:2a53f160-dea2-4038-8cd9-e9a050234198Post:74ef8569-9a6f-4cdb-b9c4-bbbc1bc6248c">Re: Field trip! And a poll.</a>:
[QUOTE]I did see that post at the end. Hard to know what that means though if this is the first time in 6 months of asking that he's actually doing it. Has he turned a corner? Or is it a one-time deal? Along with that info, though, I also saw that he was working till 1, didn't come home till 5, didn't call her to tell or answer any of her calls or texts. Apparently he was doing her a favor, but I'd still be furious if DH was 4 hours late with no communication. So there's that too... No idea if that's also part of his pattern or a one-time f up, but that's inexcusable in my book.
Posted by tenofcups4me[/QUOTE]

<div class="PostContentArea"><p><em>So he just came home- before I could even get a word out he apologized for being gone all day- apparently my GPS broke and he took it back to the store to get it replaced, and he had to wait while the manager approved it. </em></p>
<p><em>He's currently upstairs cleaning our bedroom and guest room... so I guess we'll see how this works out tonight.  

</em>He apologized, and is now working on cleaning the bedroom. That's enough for me to say that I think the "Dump him, he doesn't respect you" posts are going way overboard. Obviously, he cares enough to do it after she asked him, and as long as she's willing to work on it, I bet he'll continue to improve. Like Mery said, he could just be coming from a place where he hadn't had to do it before, and, speaking from experience here, it's a hard habit to get in to. No one LIKES cleaning.</p></div>

kellyjellybelly

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_field-trip-poll?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:2a53f160-dea2-4038-8cd9-e9a050234198Post:77cd61b7-0b36-4c8d-8da0-cd731bfc6fcb">Re: Field trip! And a poll.</a>:
[QUOTE]I think most people have some differences in style to work out when they first move in together, whether it's clutter vs. non-clutter or how clean is acceptable or how often to clean or whatever. My style and DH's style mesh pretty well, but we periodically have to revisit certain things.  
Posted by tenofcups4me[/QUOTE]
for sure.  I think people think moving in together will be all puppies and rainbows, and then it's like "Shiit, this person never goes home!"  and people don't know how to adjust.

Beachy730

I will admit it I didn't go read the thread so maybe it's mentioned there.  But how do you not have any idea of someone's cleaning habits when dating?  Don't you go to his place and notice how clean or dirty he keeps it?  I had a very clear picture of how H was from the first few times I went to his apartment.

JanoBean75

H and I have a rule: If I cook, he cleans. If he cooks, I clean. He does the laundry. I fold. We both put away. I vacuum and dust because he's allergic. He scrubs the bathrooms. Neither of us loves cleaning, but we love a clean apartment.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_field-trip-poll?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:2a53f160-dea2-4038-8cd9-e9a050234198Post:77cd61b7-0b36-4c8d-8da0-cd731bfc6fcb">Re: Field trip! And a poll.</a>:
[QUOTE]I think most people have some differences in style to work out when they first move in together, whether it's clutter vs. non-clutter or how clean is acceptable or how often to clean or whatever. My style and DH's style mesh pretty well, but we periodically have to revisit certain things.   But it does sound like that poster has a BIG problem. If he won't do anything, at all, ever... yeah, I'd have to seriously consider whether or not I wanted to tie my life to his permanently. From her post, it sounds like maintaining the house has fallen entirely to her, and that's not something she wants or agreed to. I'd consider that a big problem.
Posted by tenofcups4me[/QUOTE]<div>
</div><div>I do agree that his cleaning issue sounds... bigger than someone who's just not that clean. So I get that. But I'd be willing to bet if she says, "I'm thinking of ending our relationship over this" he'll shape up. I'd even suggest they go to counseling and work with someone who helps couples with communication. I just don't think I'd walk out the door over this issue without trying harder. "Must be a good housekeeper" wasn't on my list of things to look for in a life partner, though I admit it can be a bone of contention.</div><div>
</div><div>I'm also really curious as to why this JUST came up within the last few months when they've been engaged for a year. Surely she had seen his house before they moved in together. 

</div>

mkrupar

I asked myself the same question Mery. I don't know how you get into a year long engagement and have no clue that this is how this man is.

I really don't think those other ladies were truly understanding the point you were trying to make. I feel like he might be cleaning the bathroom now but is seeing it as something he's doing for her as a favor, and not something he should be doing regardless.

tenofcups4me

No idea mery. She didn't come back to update again -- maybe he lived with his parents so it wasn't obvious. Or maybe when he lived on his own, he knew he was responsible for his own sh*t, but now he thinks she is since they live together. Without more info, it's impossible to say.

But I could see that if this is an issue that's been going on for months with no resolution how she could start to be wondering if this is really what she wants to sign up for permanently.

Snippylynn

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_field-trip-poll?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:2a53f160-dea2-4038-8cd9-e9a050234198Post:31279f0d-a308-41f0-b8b7-1c1890347225">Re: Field trip! And a poll.</a>:
[QUOTE]Cleaning styles is definitely not a deal breaker and anyone who wants to use that as an excuse to break up probably has other issues with the relationship that they aren't telling us about.
Posted by salt78[/QUOTE]

This is what I was thinking. Sounds like she's got other issues going on and this is just the straw.

Beachy730

I read the beginning of the thread.  I think part of it is that he thinks if he's working and she isn't that the housework should be her "job."  And I would be more pissed about the ignoring what I ask him to help with, and the being at the library and not responding to any calls emails or texts for 5 hours.  

golden1215

If he is working and she isnt, then I kinda agree its more on her to clean.  If they are both working, then they can share, but if she has more time- it only makes more sense that she clean more IMO.

Do any couples ever have totally equal ideas on cleaning??  I think not.

Snippylynn

Admittedly, I do all the cleaning in our house, and have since we moved overseas and I stopped being able to work.  But, H doesn't go on a rampage in the house and leave shiit everywhere.  He respects that I spend time taking care of things, and making the home a home.  Sometimes I yell at him because he's again hung his coat on the chair at the dining table, despite the coat rack and hangers in the entryway.  But he sure as hell isn't leaving dirty dishes under the sofa.  And while it's "my" responsibility to clean, he doesn't make it harder for me by being a slob.

DanielleZZ

This is why I told myself I wouldn't get engaged/married before I lived with the person first.  Sometimes it can be worked out with good communication but it depends on how different the styles are and how much each is willing to compromise.

brookelynpaisley

I'm shocked at how many people said to not marry him. Living with someone is very different than dating them, and there are things that DH does or doesn't do that bug me, but none of them are deal breakers. I guess for me, not being on board with chores isn't a deal breaker.

However, if DH was so disgustingly sloppy that I couldn't even bring myself to be attracted to him because of his piggishness, that would be another thing.

aMrsin09

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_field-trip-poll?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:2a53f160-dea2-4038-8cd9-e9a050234198Post:26d9b1d5-6d36-4495-ac9e-6f0c8df7e082">Re: Field trip! And a poll.</a>:
[QUOTE]Admittedly, I do all the cleaning in our house, and have since we moved overseas and I stopped being able to work.  But, H doesn't go on a rampage in the house and leave shiit everywhere.  He respects that I spend time taking care of things, and making the home a home.  Sometimes I yell at him because he's again hung his coat on the chair at the dining table, despite the coat rack and hangers in the entryway.  But he sure as hell isn't leaving dirty dishes under the sofa.  And while it's "my" responsibility to clean, he doesn't make it harder for me by being a slob.
Posted by Snippylynn[/QUOTE]


This exactly.  When I was a SAHW, the house was my job.  Now that I am working again, we share.

I'm pretty sure H wishes I could be a SAHW again...

DramaGeek

I didn't know how awful at cleaning my H was until after we were married.  It's been a struggle at times, but never did I think I needed to leave him because of it.  It's just one of those things you figure out, like finances and Christmas traditions.  My parents, who are incredibly happy in their 40th year of marriage, struggled with the cleaning thing in the beginning too.  It happens.  That said things can and do change and now my H is great about cleaning the bathroom, loading the dishwasher, and doing his own laundry when I get behind, even though that's technically my chore.