Am I overreacting? School Vent

mwhitson14

I can't decide if this is one of those pick your battles kinda thing.

Every morning before classes begin, we say the pledge of allegiance. My homeroom is pretty disrespectful during this time. They won't stand up, they won't say the pledge, they talk and cut up. It really bothers me that this is how they act when we say the pledge.

I said something to them about it today, kinda along the line of, you guys need to start participating in the pledge. One kid said, what's the point, it's just  a bunch of words?

Maybe I am overreacting and shouldn't say anything, and just let them do whatever, but it still really bothers me! What do you think?

danieliza1127

You're their teacher right?  I think it's to you to make them shape up and participate.  It's part of the classroom order and they need to do what you say because you're the teacher, and that's that.  It seems to me that it would be your job to explain to them why it's important and not just a bunch of words, and then make them at least be quiet and respectful even if they choose not to say the pledge itself. 

crfische

I guess to me if the child or the child's family disagrees with it, they can respectfully choose to not participate in it, but being outwardly disrespectful isn't ok, no matter WHAT the subject is.

mwhitson14

Yeah I mean, I hate to pull the, I'm the teacher so I say to do it card, because it's not that. It's that to me, it's really disrespectful and they don't get that. But I did tell them full participation tomorrow or they will receive a consequence.

baystateapple

They should have the option to not recite the pledge if they don't want to (conscientious objection), BUT they do not have the option to be outwardly disrespectful.

You can (firmly) give them the option to either recite the pledge, or to stand up with their mouths closed, standing still and respectfully.  But those are really the only options they should have, and if they can't be respectful and behave, they should accept the responsibility of their actions.  Dani's right, it's up to you to demand their correct behavior.

FutureMrsTR

It's not so much that they're disrespecting The Pledge of Allegiance, but that they're disrespecting YOU that bothers me.  If they were acting like that at any point during the school day, I would expect their teacher to correct them.

crfische

Um, yeah. But you ARE the teacher. And what you say goes.

Like I said, fundamentally if they aren't ok with it, that's fine, but they can sit their booties in a chair and be respectful while everyone else is saying it.

It sounds like they need to understand WHY they say it too, and what it means.

ohwhynot

I think it's one thing to enforce respect and order in the classroom, but another to enforce recital of the pledge.  The first is okay with me, the second isn't.  I think a lesson in why, to many people, the pledge is more than "a bunch of words" is in order, but if the students don't want to say it, I don't think they should be made to.  

vallyhoo

Is this the only time they're raucous and disrespectful? I can't imagine them being rude and talkative just during the pledge and then perfectly behaved the rest of the class. They have to show you respect because you are the authority figure.

Stackeye210

Give them a 2 hour lecture on the history of the pledge of allegiance and then tell them you'll repeat it every time they disrespect it. 

waltzingmatilda13

Can you just tell them they can either participate or sit quietly at their desks until it is over? We had a moment of reflection thing in the mornings in high school and it was really just 30 seconds of silence to do whatever, as long as you weren't making any noise. I don't think you should force them to stand up and say it, but they should at least be respectful of those who do choose to stand up.

mwhitson14

But what if they don't want to say it just because they're just being annoying, not because they have any actual reason to not say it?

I won't enforce recital, but I am debating a lesson on the meaning behind it. I can incorporate that into reading somehow. . .

FutureMrsTR

It also seems like maybe they're pushing their boundaries a bit since you're new and young and they want to see how much they can get away with.  I agree that if they don't want to say it, they don't have to, but they should sit or stand quietly while it's going on.

Stackeye210

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_am-overreacting-school-vent?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:3a5084f9-1838-4171-a30e-3c670b48492ePost:02ee9564-f69b-4d0a-ac4f-be460291fe5b">Re: Am I overreacting? School Vent</a>:
[QUOTE]But what if they don't want to say it just because they're just being annoying, not because they have any actual reason to not say it? <strong>I won't enforce recital, but I am debating a lesson on the meaning behind it. I can incorporate that into reading somehow</strong>. . . :)
Posted by mwhitson14[/QUOTE]

Definitely this. 

danieliza1127

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_am-overreacting-school-vent?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:3a5084f9-1838-4171-a30e-3c670b48492ePost:02ee9564-f69b-4d0a-ac4f-be460291fe5b">Re: Am I overreacting? School Vent</a>:
[QUOTE]But what if they don't want to say it just because they're just being annoying, not because they have any actual reason to not say it?
Posted by mwhitson14[/QUOTE]

I don't really think that's your issue.  You as their teacher just need them to behave and be quiet.  Their reason for reciting it or not is their own, as long as they are being quiet and respectful.

Maybe you should talk to a mentor or other teacher about how to handle the kids.

mwhitson14

vally, homeroom is kinda weird here, so yeah this is the only time they act like this. We have 10 minutes of homeroom then students go to their elective classes, which is why I have a break until 9:15. By the time they get back to me, they know it's time to behave and work. I don't really have any other issues.

mwhitson14

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_am-overreacting-school-vent?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:3a5084f9-1838-4171-a30e-3c670b48492ePost:2b23528d-890e-43df-8c2c-b4e520d64f07">Re: Am I overreacting? School Vent</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Am I overreacting? School Vent : I don't really think that's your issue.  You as their teacher just need them to behave and be quiet.  Their reason for reciting it or not is their own, as long as they are being quiet and respectful. Maybe you should talk to a mentor or other teacher about how to handle the kids.
Posted by danieliza1127[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I see your point. I will talk to my team teacher.

vallyhoo

ah man, memories. I freaking loved homeroom.

/nostalgia

L-Bride

This is actually something (if I were a teacher) that wouldn't be tolerated. Of course no one should be forced into reciting anything they don't want to at any age, but my hunch is that they don't have any political or religious reasons not to say it and they're just being disrespectful.

beerstaches

Last year my sister's class had almost the exact same problem! She went online and found a you tube mash-up of soldiers, men and women, children, Americans of all shapes and sizes and colors saying the pledge of allegiance, singing the national anthem, and either being very happy or expressing emotion (like crying). It was like this 3 or 4 minute stew of patriotism, and she made her kids watch it and then she said something along the lines of "It may seem like nothing to you now because you haven't fully grasped how fortunate you are to grow up in America. You are a citizen of a great and beautiful country and you should be proud, like these people, that you have the right to pledge your allegiance or respectfully decline to do so."

It worked for her! Good luck

mwhitson14

Ha yeah, vally. The kids love it, I hate it Pure chaos.

georgia_bride09

I agree with baystate. Tomorrow you give them two choices. Say the pledge or stand quietly, otherwise there will be consequences.

mwhitson14

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_am-overreacting-school-vent?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:9Discussion:3a5084f9-1838-4171-a30e-3c670b48492ePost:1bd8d863-ec8d-44c2-ba69-3db1b1c2034a">Re: Am I overreacting? School Vent</a>:
[QUOTE]This is actually something (if I were a teacher) that woudln't be tolerated. Of course no one should be forced into reciting anything they don't want to at any age, but <strong>my hunch is that they don't have any political or religious reasons not to say it and they're just being disrespectful.</strong>
Posted by L-Bride[/QUOTE]

This is probably why it irritates me so much.

And youtube is blocked :( I had that idea though too.

ohwhynot

They probably don't have any reason not to say it.  But that doesn't mean the default is to recite it.  IMO, you should have a reason TO say it, otherwise it's just empty words, mindlessly recited. 

Somehow, they've never absorbed any reason to pledge allegiance to our country.  I don't know if that's something you want to tackle or not, but at the very least you can insist on quiet respect while others say it. 

mwhitson14

CS, 8th graders.

I spoke with another teacher and she suggested a few websites for videos and to maybe do a quick touch on how it's more than just words, and also that tomorrow they have the 2 options you guys mentioned here.

kristen8040

Whit, you can download a youtube converter where you can download the youtube video at come and save it on a flashdrive.

I have the same problem at my school, except they don't do it every day (which to me is sad) so when they do ask them to do the pledge at assemblies and such, they are rude and disrespectful.  

I would just take some time one day to explain to them the story behind it and what it means to people.  With Sept. 11th, it might be a good introduce the lesson.  

andy71781

I think they need to understand two things
(a) that the pledge is important - this is probably harder than (b)
(b) that they need to be respectful of certain societal rituals.

Work on (b) and then during social studies work on (a).

[Deleted User]

   I  will honestly say I didn't "get" the pledge until I moved overseas the second time at age 28.  After I moved I really thought about what it is to be an American and I finally go it.  Also FI said to me you don't have a monarch so you pledge to a flag.  Our government is fluid no one person is in charge we are about the collective people with individual rights.  The flag stands for the people not a monarch.  Also I think because we are a nation of immigrants the pledge is a way to get us to come together to make the new immigrants to feel a part of their new country.  

   I have thought WAY more about being an American since moving out of the US then I ever did in the US I think because I just took everything at face value and I wasn't faced with different ways of doing things.  

I'm guessing you were not looking for a huge commentary on the pledge, but I have really thought about it and thought I would share my ideas.  

I agree that they are really disrespecting you and it needs to stop now or it's going to be a shiity year.  

Meg1979

When I was in high school I didn't always feel comfortable saying the pledge, but I would always stand.  I mean, I don't think you can force them to say the words, but they should show the respect of standing during the pledge.

Hellokatie0517

Growing up I went to school with a few kids who were Jehovah's Witnesses.  Their religion prohibits them from saying the pledge.  They always sat quietly and respectfully while the rest of us recited the pledge.  Kids today seem a lot more disrespectful than back in "my day".  God I feel old.  Personally, I would make each kid who acted out recite the pledge at the front of the class in front of everyone unless they have some religious or moral conflict with the pledge.

LDYGTR13

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_etiquette_am-overreacting-school-vent?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding%20BoardsForum:9Discussion:3a5084f9-1838-4171-a30e-3c670b48492ePost:e1b87e48-fb87-4ab5-83cb-f826d6c45934">Re: Am I overreacting? School Vent</a>:
[QUOTE]Um, yeah. But you ARE the teacher. And what you say goes. Like I said, fundamentally if they aren't ok with it, that's fine, but they can sit their booties in a chair and be respectful while everyone else is saying it.<strong> It sounds like they need to understand WHY they say it too, and what it means.</strong>
Posted by crfische[/QUOTE]


I totally agree with this - maybe a mini lesson on the pledge and why it unites Americans and stuff would be beneficial.

I'm really not an uber patriotic person - I dont think I own anything with a flag on it, I actually cheer for other countries during the Olympics sometimes - but honestly, the Pledge and the National Anthem always give me the warm fuzzies and it annoys the crap out of me when people dont give them the respect they deserve.